With Michelle Nedelec, a multi-passionate entrepreneur and strategist who has over 20 years of experience in Executive Coaching working with clients ranging from 8 figures to solopreneurs. Through her company, Awareness Strategies, Michelle runs the creative side of her Done For You Marketing Tech services helping entrepreneurs set up and maintain their Infusionsoft (Keap Max Classic). Michelle particularly loves and specializes in Marketing Automation, Systems Integration and support both on and off of the stage. She teaches the key components of business: Strategy, Systems and State of Mind so you know how to continually elevate all three components to build a healthy thriving business. She is also an International Bestselling author who started in coaching on the smaller scale to now training and implementing strategic marketing and automation.

Additionally, Michelle is also a Success Therapist. Because of her passion for helping people through life’s toughest moments, she has accomplished some phenomenal breakthroughs in the world of trauma. She was even acknowledged for her work by being awarded the Queen Elizabeth Diamond Jubilee Award for her successful work with clients suffering from post traumatic stress disorder or PTSD.

Join our exciting conversation as Michelle shares the phases in entrepreneurship, her tips to build a good affiliate marketing email, the most common mistakes that small business owners make in managing their CRMs, and key components of business: Strategy, Systems and State of Mind so you know how to continually elevate all three components to build a healthy thriving business.

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Biggest takeaways (or quotes) you don’t want to miss:

• “When you get those little nuances of – what do you absolutely love to do and deliver? Who loves receiving it and has the wherewithal to not only appreciate what you do, but the willingness to pay you for what you do?, then you find that little sweet spot.”
• “You have to be very attentive to how you send out affiliate emails… if they don’t recognize that it’s from you, then they’ll assume that it’s a phishing email and they will unsubscribe from it.”
• “If it’s just not you, just don’t do it.”
• “Discord, TikTok, Telegram are not any different — if you don’t own the server, it can be hacked, dropped, accosted, and taken over.”

“Everybody needs a techie in their back pocket – we operate totally differently.”

-Michelle Nedelec

Check out these highlights:

• 04:10 Michelle shares how she started her entrepreneurship journey.
• 12:39 She discusses the four stages that every entrepreneur has to go through.
• 13:24 Why Michelle enjoys strategizing in a business the most.
• 30:49 What is a “phishing email”?
• 32:52 Michelle compares how Facebook works vs email list in terms of client base.
• 36:37 The biggest mistake made by small businesses when it comes to managing their CRMs.

How to get in touch with Michelle:

On social media:

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/michelleatawarenessstrategies

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/michellenedelec/

Twitter: https://twitter.com/michellenedelec

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/michellenedelec/

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/MichelleNedelec

Learn more about Michelle, by visiting her website: https://www.awarenessstrategies.com/. You may also get a free website audit here.

Imperfect Show Notes

We are happy to offer these imperfect show notes to make this podcast more accessible to those who are hearing impaired or those who prefer reading over listening. While we would love to offer more polished show notes, we are currently offering an automated transcription (which likely includes errors, but hopefully will still deliver great value), below.

GGGB Intro  00:00

Here’s what you get on today’s episode of Guts, Grit & Great Business™… 

Michelle Nedelec  00:05

And understanding that email, like it or not, is still considered to be one of the better assets of your client base. So it proves that you have a client base. Whereas if I have followers on Facebook, and you can verify this, in legal terms, if I have a bunch of followers on Facebook, then one not really mine because the platform is Facebook’s, and they can close me down any time to I don’t really have a way of connecting with them, other than through that same platform, which is not, as you mentioned, guaranteed by any stretch of anyone’s imagination, and they have no way of selling that to somebody else. I can’t get my list to you and say here you go mark them now, whereas with an email list, you can buy my company, and then you can continue to email to them and continue to have access to them to upsell down, sell, cross sell whatever.

GGGB Intro  00:56

The adventure of entrepreneurship and building a life and business you love, preferably at the same time is not for the faint of heart. That’s why Heather Pearce Campbell is bringing you a dose of guts, grit and great business stories that will inspire and motivate you to create what you want in your business and life. Welcome to the Guts, Grit and Great Business™ podcast where endurance is required. Now, here’s your host, The Legal Website Warrior®, Heather Pearce Campbell.

Heather Pearce Campbell  01:29

Alrighty, welcome. I am Heather Pearce Campbell, The Legal Website Warrior®. I’m an attorney and legal coach based here in Seattle, Washington, serving information entrepreneurs throughout the U.S. and the world. Welcome to another episode of Guts, Grit & Great Business™. Oh, today we are going to have some fun. Welcome to Michelle Nedelec. Yay. 

Michelle Nedelec  01:54

Hello, how are you doing?

Heather Pearce Campbell  01:57

So happy to have you here. I feel like this is only like years overdue. For many years, I don’t know, too many. But for those of you that don’t know, Michelle. Michelle Nedelec has over 20 years of experience in executive coaching. Working with clients ranging from eight figures to solopreneurs, Michelle runs the creative side of her done for you Marketing Tech Services, helping entrepreneurs setup and maintain their Infusionsoft or Keap Max Classic through her company Awareness Strategies at AwarenessStrategies.com. And Michelle is another one of my favorite Canadians – just a hop across the border. I know Michelle and I first met – Gosh, it would have been 2017. That’s March of 2017. Right before my daughter Henley was born. So it literally has been a few years. But welcome Michelle, I’m super excited to have you here today.

Michelle Nedelec  02:59

Yeah, I’m super excited to be here with you. So fun – way too long.

Heather Pearce Campbell  03:03

I know. Well, it’s been a little bit since we’ve connected and we were just talking about puppies and pandemic and losing our minds and just dropping everything and quitting and doing pottery. What else?

Michelle Nedelec  03:17

You know, all the usual subjects.

Heather Pearce Campbell  03:19

Just kidding. We would never do that. We love what we do. But we do have for me, I call them my mom moments where it’s like, give me the rubber room between the puppies and the kids. I need a room for me. Let’s be clear, not for anybody else. But Michelle, tell us for those that have not connected with you before hearing your story. Tell us a little bit about your start in entrepreneurship.

Michelle Nedelec  03:45

Boom, I started entrepreneurship way back.

Heather Pearce Campbell  03:50

You can give us the highlights if you want. But I like to hear how people got hooked right, how they started down that path.

Michelle Nedelec  03:57

Well, once upon a time land far, far away. I had this insane idea too, it even started back before that. So where do I start? So I fell in love with the love of my life in university. We broke up. He hooked back up together again and right as he was finishing university, so he was going to become a park warden. And I figured I needed to have an occupation. Like what do I want to be when I grow up? So many times, I wish I’d known then to just throw a dart at the wall. But instead I grabbed all of the brochures from the local trade, postsecondary and put them on the table needed for all the first year one year programs. I had to complete this one year because he graduated in one year. So it came down to two things. It was either avionics metallurgy, which I probably should have taken or dental assisting. So I figured metal avionic metallurgy wasn’t gonna work in the middle of The forest somewhere in parks. So I decided to go into dental assisting. You took dental assisting, and I fell asleep during the first teachers were like, This is not for me. But I didn’t realize that being a dentist sounded really awesome. But then I realized seven years of University was not my gamut. So I concocted this fantastic plan of going to join the Red Cross in Colombia. And if you’re a chairside assistant in Colombia, the dentist would teach you dentistry, basically and found out that you could come back to Canada and challenge the exam and become a dentist. I’m an artist. It’s awesome. But it was in the 90s. And it was like guerrilla warfare could have broken out at any moment in Colombia. So I went, how much does it cost to charter an airplane. So I found out it was 100 grand for us to basically buy the plane in the pilot and to be able to get the hell out of dodge if I needed to. And went, Wow, that may as well have been a million dollars to me because I had my name and I was you know, 18, whatever. So I found out from a friend of mine that you could become a dental assistant in Saudi Arabia at the King Fahad hospital. And they paid you 50,000 a year you ask, and you stayed in the American compound and basically got all your food and room and board for free. And went, well, that’s perfect. That will give me my 100 grand. All I need to do to get to the king for hot is to have five years experience as a dental assistant in Canada, or to have two years experience in the Northwest Territories. So guess what I did, I packed up my bags, moved up to new Vic in the Northwest Territories on January 2 and went oh my god, these people are insane. And they live in the 18th century. This is ridiculous. So my poor little brain snapped. Long story short, I was stuck in the porch of the housing unit for the dental assistants. And by the time I unpacked myself, went and talked to the girls, came back half of my stuff was frozen. I’m like, I’m not gonna live through the night. So that was fun. Long story short, I ended up getting pregnant and could not needless to say go to Saudi Arabia for a single month. So that entire plan was Kai Bosch. So it turns out, the father of my son, a lovely individual that he has happened to run a restaurant up there. And he recognized that I was kind of smart, and I could probably run a business. So we decided to start not only one but three companies. So we started an electronic store. And we bought out the building next door to where his restaurant was and started an electronic store. At the back of that we put in a tanning salon, as in white people going on holidays needed to tan before they went down south. Great marketing stories on that one, let me tell you, and the third one was a polar Ben breakfast. So I was one of the first to have an Airbnb epidemic in the Northwest Territories at the ripe old age of 23. Wow.

Heather Pearce Campbell  07:58

That was the fast path into entrepreneurship. Sideways path into entrepreneurship

Michelle Nedelec  08:07

It was awesome. We had a meeting with the BDC, their lending organization. I think they’re Canadian. And he goes, so what do you think you know, what are your profit margins going to be next year? Like, I don’t know what I know. Okay, well, you kind of make it up. Really, this is how businesses are run. I’m gonna sign about half a million dollar loan on gas and I hope and in priority. Yeah, pretty much.

Heather Pearce Campbell  08:39

Oh, my Yeah, there was your introduction. And you say in the 90s. Here’s your money. Yep. So there you were with three businesses. Yeah. Right. Tell us a little bit about the time between that early start, like jump into business and what you’re doing now. Right, which is totally different. I’m sure that business experience has served you well. It always does. Right.

Michelle Nedelec  09:09

Well, well, I do love to tell the story that with especially with polar tanning. The phone was ringing off the hook and tanning salon. And anybody in the tri state area can really appreciate this one. Because everybody wanted to get tanning done up there, of course, but they wanted their hides done not their wives done. So it was

Heather Pearce Campbell  09:28

Oh my gosh, tanning their hides. Holy cow. They’re like, dry out all the pelts.

Michelle Nedelec  09:36

And like, we don’t need that kind of tanning in there. Like what kind of tanning do you do?

Heather Pearce Campbell  09:40

The Creed was goggles, you know,

Michelle Nedelec  09:43

Soil in a bright light. And they’re like, No, wrong market.

Heather Pearce Campbell  09:49

Right. So how long did that business last?

Michelle Nedelec  09:53

Well, we actually did quite well because fortunately, most of the women that were up there were um transported as we like to say, so they were actually from down south transported up north. So they’re like Yes, fine. Voted going to town because the nemesis of being up there with you know, six months of darkness really good. All and then when the sun Yeah, it was really bright and hot and and then there was the bugs and whatnot so you just did not get a tan so it was really nice to actually have

Heather Pearce Campbell  10:28

you’re really selling this place where and how did we get there?

Michelle Nedelec  10:35

Find yourself teleported into the 18th century. Perfect for it. But yeah, it was actually a lot of fun. We actually did really well. It was super fun doing the bed and breakfast because we were in a commercial spot. And we basically gutted the whole place and rebuilt it, put in bedrooms and in design and decorating did the whole interior decorating thing got into painting, which was super fun and became a professional painter. People actually bought my paintings, which I was super stoked about.

Heather Pearce Campbell  11:09

Nice like, like, paintings that you would create in an art studio or about your painting. Like you come to paint on their walls.

Michelle Nedelec  11:17

No, like on a canvas. So I did the artwork in the rooms. And then people liked them so much. They asked if they could buy them. I’m like hell yes, you may.

Heather Pearce Campbell  11:30

Well, these things I didn’t know about you, Michelle. Right.

Michelle Nedelec  11:34

Yeah, that was fun. So since then, let’s just say there’s been a lot of dips and valleys. And we calculated the other day that I’ve done 28 pivots before pivots were cool.

Heather Pearce Campbell  11:46

Right before we started all over using the word pivot and COVID. Yeah. Right.

Michelle Nedelec  11:53

So I got really bored really quickly. So I basically sold all my businesses, it was like, Hey, do you wanna do this on Monday this, so I got them up and running and life was grand, and money’s coming in. And people are asking for stuff. And this is awesome. And I don’t want to do it anymore. So go ahead and sell it. So I guess that was serial entrepreneurialism before, that was cool, too. And just had a delightful array of occupations, you might say, which were the perfect lineup for becoming a business coach, because there really isn’t a business that I don’t understand the fundamentals of and can help people. To me, business is business, there are certain fundamentals you need, like cash, revenue clients, all those kinds of fun things. And being able to put those systems in place so that you, you have the startup phase, you go through them the growth phase, then once your growth is performing, you can move into the scaling phase, once you can scale, you can then exit which is an also fun stage to be able to either sell it to somebody handed over to current management, to your kids to whomever. And what is that plan? And how do you actually start companies with that in mind, so that you can go through those four stages faster? 

Heather Pearce Campbell  13:11

Yeah. Well, what I mean, and before we dig into some of the specifics, I’d love to know, overall, what is it that you enjoy about business?

Michelle Nedelec  13:24

Strategy, I love strategizing about a business. Because even though there’s kind of a legal aspect to a business, you have the fundamentals, you put them together, and they’re all kind of sort of the same. When you get those little nuances of what do you absolutely love to do and deliver, who loves receiving it and has the wherewithal to not only appreciate what you do, but the willingness to pay you for what you do, then you find that little sweet spot and then it’s It’s like a It’s more than a puzzle. It’s, it’s a kind of an investigative process of, okay, where do we find these people? How do we get a hold of them? How do we entice them, bring them out. And and, and start having those relationships and those intriguing conversations that allow both parties to have fun in this engagement so that it’s more than just a business transaction.

Heather Pearce Campbell  14:23

Mm hmm. Give us a sampling Give, give the listeners a sampling of the kinds like the range of businesses that you’ve worked with over the years in your capacity as a coach or a marketing expert or, you know, whatever has evolved into your current role. I know you’re quite skilled and like you’ve done. I mean, I’ve been at events with you where you are in a room and you were teaching this person about copywriting and like getting in behind the scenes on this other person’s website and like you’re, you know a lot about online business about all of the pieces. So share with us the types of clients that you’ve worked with. In recent years, primarily,

Michelle Nedelec  15:02

One of the fun ones that I like is when somebody is transitioning in, they’re taking their experience and they’re going, I don’t know what I want to do. So give me two completely random or from your experience kind of things either love, somebody might love to do.

Heather Pearce Campbell  15:17

Oh, just like anything. Got it? You mean within their business or two separate things in their life and their life? Okay, so let’s say photography, and writing.

Michelle Nedelec  15:30

Nice. So when people are looking at, okay, I have these two life experiences I am really good at as a photographer, I’d love to do and maybe it’s their passion project, but not their professional project. And they were a professional writer, how do I start to combine those two things and, and make them something. So now we can look at, okay, what is specifically about being a photographer, that would make the writing unique to that individual. So that could come into, you could write articles for a geographical location, you could write travel articles you could do and we start to get into the fun of what kind of businesses are out there that include photography and writing. So this is what I did for a long time as being able to find that thing. So then this individual that might be interested in that now finds themselves getting contracts for parks departments for places that need to have the photography done, and the writing done, I want a brochure, you know, hundreds of people are going to be coming through they need to see it, they need to get the information on warnings about bears and things but they always want to know about the local flowers and all that kind of fun stuff. As a photographer that likes writing there any unique position to be able to get those contracts to be able to fulfill on that. And if they happen to speak two languages in Canada, there’s. So the actual clients that I have worked with aren’t that far off from there. So one of the most unique ones that I’ve worked with was an individual that sold oil breaks, basically, they would have Derek’s and they would take him down. And he actually sold Canadian Derrick’s internationally, which seems like a really weird thing. Because it turns out, it’s just like a bunch of metal. Once you tear it down and recreate it, it’s just metal. But that was his forte was connecting the right people and putting those things together and then going, Okay, well, how do I maximize this other than just meeting people randomly on airplanes, and, you know, at a whaling gas show, and that was basically how he’s making his money. Before that. We’ve had legal offices, we’ve had electricians, we’ve had costume shops, which is super fun. I’ve worked with Sandler, franchisees and worked with hundreds of them. They were awesome. That was super fun.

Heather Pearce Campbell  17:57

And for people that don’t know, Sandler’s in sales, right, is it sales? 

Michelle Nedelec  18:02

Yeah. Sales and management training. So the franchisees would basically, they would either have been in sales, and I’m looking to transition become, and run their own company, and they just decided, hey, this is awesome material, people need to know this, I think I’ll go on a startup franchise. And then they realize, hey, being a C suite executive that is super successful, isn’t quite the same as running your own franchise. They have to kind of transition from that entrepreneur or the employee mindset into the entrepreneurial mindset, and a lot of that transition, as well as the tangible marketing of it and hiring and all the things that go along with doing business. So the variety, for sure is there and the experience that I can bring to the table is also there. So when somebody says, Yeah, but my business is different. I do accounting, I do bookkeeping. Yep. Got that. Got it. Okay, now what? That’s not nearly as unique as it could be. Because actually, there’s a lot of people out there that do that. When somebody comes to me and says, nobody else does this, then we have something unique. And then it becomes either fun to figure out how to wordsmith it, because oftentimes, when somebody really does have a unique business, nobody else knows what that means. So they’ll say things like, I’m a das and like anybody else on the planet know what that means? And if the answer’s no, then we have to start drawing a picture of what that means in order to be able to market that to people that really don’t understand it. Like once upon a time it was a coach, now everybody’s coach, now you have to differentiate yourself which is a totally different issue.

Heather Pearce Campbell  19:41

Right? Right. So in your services, are you coaching the business around things beyond just their marketing then …

Michelle Nedelec  19:50

We have since narrowed down our niche if you want to put it that way in helping people get their Infusionsoft set up. And for anybody that doesn’t know what Infusionsoft is, it’s a whole conversation unto itself, especially if you don’t know what a CRM is. But it’s a piece of software that allows you to not only contain your prospects and your clients information, and allows you to be able to segregate that data so that you can retarget them specifically to their specific needs, so that you’re not bombarding everybody with all of your messages. You’re honing in on who they are, what they’re interested in, and being able to get them the information they want. Not only that, but it’s also an AP open API, which means nothing to anybody either. But what that means is, it allows people with other software programs to be able to connect with it. And when you have the genius that I happen to have in my side of the business, dude named Brad Mooney, we can go into a company and help them with their silos of data, we can help them to integrate their systems so that they’re not doing things manually anymore, or putting data on spreadsheets and then having to move them move information that uploaded, downloaded, and creating what we like to call dirty data. I like to call it dirty data on say, but

Heather Pearce Campbell  21:11

Many people have dirty data out there.

Michelle Nedelec  21:17

Yeah, so we help them to clean all that fun stuff up and get their systems running more effectively, so that the creative part of their business, which are the human beings that work for them, can do the creative things that are acquired, and anything that’s systematic and manual and repetitive, we can put in the systems to automate that. So that that happens 24/7, nobody has to think about it anymore. Ideally, the human resources that you have working for your company can do the creative things that are appreciated by your clientele.

Heather Pearce Campbell  21:54

Yeah. For folks that are familiar with CRMs. And there are gonna be some that probably aren’t, you know, maybe some solopreneurs or small businesses that haven’t yet implemented a CRM. And I know technology can stump a lot of small businesses, right, they get started or they don’t get started, because they don’t know what tool to choose. Share with us a little bit about why Infusionsoft is the tool of choice for you guys. And for your clients.

Michelle Nedelec  22:23

We love it because, well, when I started, when we got into all of this, I was speaking from stage and I was going around talking on other people’s stages kind of like this except for in person. And I needed my tech done for me. So I again, having this unique position going, Hey, Brad, can you do this? So he’s trying to figure out this whole online thing, because his forte was working with huge oil and gas companies and the IBM’s of the world and helping them to create software that hadn’t been created before. So they’re like, hey, we need to have this stuff. How do we do it? And he was the architect that would put together this, how many people you need, how many servers, how long, it’s going to take how many millions of dollars and go and do it. So my project to him was pretty small. But it was also a kind of a left field thing for him. But he went in search of the software and said, Okay, you need a shopping cart, you need somewhere to have your clients information other than your cell phone, you need to have all these things. So he put together what I like to call Frank and where. And Frank worked, thankfully for me for a while, but he started to drive Brad nuts. Because as I was asking for things to get done, for Frank was kind of dropping an arm here and an ear there. Just wasn’t working for Brad. So then Brad stumbled across Infusionsoft and he goes, Hey, found this stuff. I want to scrap everything else and put this in place. And like dude, you can do it ever your heart’s content. I’m not touching it like you, do you and if it makes you happy, great. And he was so excited. So enthralled with this software. He’s like, Do you have any clue how much this software would cost you, if you were like a big company like five years ago, before I got it, that kind of software would have cost hundreds of 1000s of dollars, if not millions to be able to do those things. And quite frankly, the only software that came close to it at the time was Salesforce. And even Salesforce broke its software down into modules so that people could afford the tools that they needed. Because in its entirety. It’s a 510 $1,000 system, even today, per month to have the entire suite of Salesforce working for you, which is awesome if you’re the IBM’s in the world, right? Because it’s that robust. So in Infusionsoft it was kind of scaled down and became affordable for small businesses, to be able to run their systems and have it integrated and to use a logic based system behind the emails which allows you then to segregate your email so that you can send emails to People that are your prospects and different emails to your clients that already know about that they’re already engaged in the program, they don’t need to be getting your marketing information, they need your fulfillment email so that they can, you know, do the things and participate in things that they’ve already bought. And that becomes a huge issue. Because if you’ve ever bought tickets to an event, and you’ve already bought the tickets, and then they keep bombarding you with, hey, you know, there’s events coming up this event coming up, you should buy tickets, this events like I am, and all you really want to do is unsubscribe. That’s what your clients are doing. And it drives them crazy, because they don’t want to get that information. But they do want to get the information of, hey, this is the news about the parking situation downtown, you know, come this way, not that way. Because there’s construction going on, or whatever. They want to know that the information that they get from you is pertinent to them. So that’s one of the beauties of it.

Heather Pearce Campbell  25:55

Right? That’s a great example, because my next question was going to be, do you think that people can afford in, let’s just call it this day and age to not have a list that they have the capability to segregate?

Michelle Nedelec  26:10

And no, I think it’s more important than ever, because people are getting so bombarded with email. And it’s, it’s kind of sad, crazy. But what’s happening in the background is a lot of people are moving to Google for their email. So it’s a lot easier to just put all their company email on Google. And it works. It’s a good, great service provider, but then Google is going crazy going, oh my god, do you have any idea how many newsletters you’ve subscribed to? Why have you spending newsletter, and you’re going I haven’t, half of them are real spam, like the stuff that comes to you with zero, do not sign up for did not sign up for how to do basket weaving one on one underwater that that email, I don’t know why that came in. And this is not me, and there’s no unsubscribe from it, that’s real spam. Those ones are, for the most part, they will bounce or fish off of other servers, which is why the big guys can’t stop them from doing it. Because when they’re bouncing off of somebody’s server, if they’ve just closed down that server, they’re closing down the legitimate business behind that server, not the one bouncing off of it, if that makes sense. So they’re having an issue trying to get rid of those ones. So in the meanwhile, what they’re doing is working on legitimate businesses that just aren’t playing by the rules of the game. So if the, the actual emails are saying, Hey, we’re gonna send this out to everybody, we’re gonna buy less, because we know that you’ve, you know, don’t know you’ve registered your name on this site, we hacked it, and we took all the emails, so we’re gonna go and send you emails just because now that doesn’t sound like a real legitimate business. But sometimes they do that. And, and you get those kinds of emails. So Google is trying to shut down on those. And a lot of times, the real businesses that just aren’t playing by the rules look like those businesses to Google. So now they’re kind of shutting down everybody, which is why you get a whole ton of email going to your spam, even though you’ve signed up for it. You’re excited about it, you’ve been clicking on it, you’ve been waiting for you paid for still goes to spam. Google doesn’t know that for some reason, which we can’t figure out why. Because they have enough data, God knows.

Heather Pearce Campbell  28:28

Right? Everything

Michelle Nedelec  28:31

Around me everything. You know what I’m thinking about buying something? How can you not tell when I’ve already bought?

Heather Pearce Campbell  28:36

Right? You’ve been showing me a blue truck for six months, because I did a test right? I spoke into my device, I would never buy a blue track. And so say blue track. There are ads for it now. Right? Well, it I mean, email is fascinating, because it’s, you know, it, I think, is still the communication avenue of choice. It worked. It’s, you know, for the most part, although you obviously have to pay for the tools and the software to help you deliver that stuff, track it, do all of that. It’s not like these other platforms where, you know, you can publish something and you just know that it’s not getting shown to anybody. Right, right. But yes, and I remember last year, I think maybe you and I had spoken during that time or chatted online or something about the Yahoo AOL emails, not receiving anything, right, the spam filters shutting even all of these legitimate email deliveries down and so it is a conundrum. And on top of that, if you are getting your emails into the inboxes of your people, but you’re not speaking to them, right there. Some people are just so tired of being blasted and tired of emails that are Not for them, it’s, you know, I can send, it’s so true. And you just want to test this, like, send an affiliate email out to a business that you support, but maybe is unrelated to your business and just watch how many unsubscribes you’d get right? Then when you think it’s a fabulous business or offer and you want it in front of your people, you can just see in real time how tired people are of email,

Michelle Nedelec  30:28

You have to be very, very attentive to how you send out affiliate emails, especially now. Because if they don’t recognize that it’s from you, then they’ll assume that it’s a phishing email, and they will unsubscribe from it.

Heather Pearce Campbell  30:42

Now, will you describe what a phishing email is?

Michelle Nedelec  30:47

Absolutely. So if, say you send out an email, and I happen to be a, a dirty email, I’m a bad email, or I’m a bad hacker. And I will send my emails off of your server to clot to your client list basically. 

Heather Pearce Campbell  31:07

Looking like me, you looking like, you look like me. Okay.

Michelle Nedelec  31:11

But they’re, but they’re not. So it’s yeah, it’s kind of luck. Like, like, you’ve you’ve put something out there that looks like somebody else. But it’s not like there’s, there’s so many ways that somebody could hack a system, it’s really muddled kind of description of it, but it’s just not them. Right. Okay. So if I, if I look at a link, a really obvious phishing is if I look at a link, and it says Heather’s email, and I click on it, and it goes to some random Yahoo, tree planting site, then that’s a clear phishing. And the same thing happens in the back end with, with emails and weird things like that. But if some if you send an email, and it has your affiliates picture on the top, say, and it’s like, hey, so and so and you don’t have the first name and their emails, which is also another kind of giveaway, and then you start talking about this other person that they don’t know, they assume that it’s the wrong one end, they’ll hit unsubscribe, thinking that they’re unsubscribing from the fished address, but they’re not, they’re actually unsubscribing from your address, which means that even though you’re trying to do something good for them, and say, Hey, this is awesome, this is amazing. And then they kind of punish you for having done that. So it’s not that all affiliate emails are bad by any stretch of anyone’s imagination, they’re actually fantastic, wonderful, amazing. But you have to be very careful how you do them, especially now. And understanding that email, like it or not, is still considered to be one of the better assets of your client base. So it proves that you have a client base. Whereas if I have followers on Facebook, and you can verify this, in legal terms, if I have a bunch of followers on Facebook, then one not really mine, because the platform is Facebook’s, and they can close me down any time to I don’t really have a way of connecting with them, other than through that same platform, which is not, as you mentioned, guaranteed by any stretch of anyone’s imagination, and I have no way of selling that to somebody else, I can’t give my list to you, and say here you go market to them now. Whereas with an email list, you can buy my company, and then you can continue to email to them and continue to have access to them to upsell down, cross sell whatever.

Heather Pearce Campbell  33:25

Well, and that piece is particularly important about you know, not building and I’ve, I’ve worked with numerous clients who, in fact, one just this past year, who is really, she’s anti Facebook, which I get right, I am too. But she really, really wanted to build her business out on mighty networks, right? And I said, Okay, where’s your website? Where’s your database gonna live? Like, where are your opt-ins and your list building efforts taking place? And anyway, she kind of paused and I was like, this is not optional. Like I was kind of a bully about it. This is not optional, you can build on mighty networks. And you at all times, you need to be redirecting people to something that you own right, your website, your list, whatever, for this very reason. I had another friend who built her entire business on oh my gosh, the Google service that they took down, it was like,

Michelle Nedelec  34:22

I want to say google.net And Google Facebook, Google something it was… I forgot. All right.

Heather Pearce Campbell  34:30

I know Google Groups, Google, it was like that. What was it? Anyways, I’ll think of it. It was basically one of the optional services on Google that people used as a platform and one day they just decided to remove it. And there went her literally her entire business. Yes. And so it’s, you know, unfortunately, people do learn that the hard way sometimes and they they figure out how to do something really well and so they build their build their build They’re like, how many LinkedIn experts do you know? Right here they’re on Facebook

Michelle Nedelec  35:04

Ones where their entire

Heather Pearce Campbell  35:06

Closeness is yeah is built on LinkedIn or their entire business is built on Instagram or something like that. 

Michelle Nedelec  35:14

Anyway for those of you listening don’t think discord or TikTok or telegram aren’t any different. They if you don’t own the server when you don’t, it can be hacked, it can be dropped, it can be costed, it can be taken over Twitter in the news, obviously be very strong about 9% of the company owned by Elon Musk, and guess who’s going to be having controlling interest in what’s going on with it? I firmly believe that pharmaceuticals on the rest of it. So I think he’s got an uphill battle against domain over what gets published. But if you think you’re part of that conversation, you’re kidding yourself.

Heather Pearce Campbell  35:56

Yeah, it’s just it’s definitely you know, you do so much for so many small businesses, so much of your value and your potential to connect with clients and customers and to sell to them is through your list through your database. So, Michelle, what do you see as some of the top mistakes aside from like, let’s say not segregating, or, you know, sending out affiliate emails in the wrong way, and making them look like they’re a phishing email? What are some of the top mistakes that you see, particularly by small businesses, when it comes to managing their CRMs?

Michelle Nedelec  36:37

For the most part, it’s them trying to figure it out. That is the biggest mistake that most of them make is, I will find the most simplistic software, that’s the easiest to use with the most kind of understandable interface, and I will go and do that, which is super sad, because then you end up using things like Facebook as your CRM, that is not a good idea. So it’s being able to understand, like I get you, when you have limited resources, totally get that, too, you want to be able to go in and just set up an email, you want to go in and just update so and so’s contact information. And there are ways that you can do that. I want to say smartly, but I don’t mean intelligently, I mean, without blowing up your systems long term. So it’s in the understanding that sometimes there are going to be skills in your business that are required, that aren’t necessarily going to be your forte, it’s not in your wheelhouse, right? You might be like me, and accounting and bookkeeping is not my gamut. I mean, I love reconciling bank statements and much of anybody because that was super fun. To me. It’s like, yeah, how much did you make this is awesome how much they spent what I spent that? Oh, I’m cool with that. But that’s not bookkeeping. That is not tax accounting, is not any of those things. All of those things have to go to somebody else that is in their wheelhouse. And tack is one of those things, especially now when you have to be online. It is becoming one of those things that you have to outsource to somebody that knows how to do it and loves to do it. Because there’s certain people that think techie, and our other people don’t think techie. I am a little bit of a techie, but I’m certainly not considered a techie. And I’m not saying it as an insult. It’s just a Personality Typing the way you somebody thinks. And when somebody thinks that way. It’s awesome and amazing and wonderful. It’s just not me. Right? If it’s just not you just don’t do it. Play in your tech, good playing with your tech and get back to work.

Heather Pearce Campbell  38:45

Yeah, that’s right. Tech is one of those things that I feel like is an exponential time suck if you don’t know what you’re doing, right. And so it’s not like you can go over here and be like, Oh, this will just take a couple of minutes. You think it might and then four hours later, you still haven’t solved the problem. And how many times do you end up having to outsource that thing? Anyways? Right? I’m raising my hand because I’ve done this.

Michelle Nedelec  39:09

And I’m only talking from experience here people want to do when we’re not doing?

Heather Pearce Campbell  39:14

Well, and yeah, I think it is one of those things that is just obvious from the start. You will scale faster. You will free up hordes of time if you just find somebody who understand your business can help you plug in those pieces of technology, including your CRM, that’s a huge, huge, huge component in regards to running and maintaining a small business and a happy client list, or potential client list right taking care of your database. And truthfully, I will admit that the first year of COVID was the first time even with an eye I’m an Infusionsoft user. Right. I’ve had Infusionsoft since 2015. I bought it. Yeah, for my second business, not for my primary not pierce law, but for the legal website warrior, ahead of even having a database. But I was like, You know what, I want to create the kind of business that will rely on this type of software to be able to run. And, but it wasn’t, although I used it fairly well, I did not use it as consistently, as I did the first year of COVID. When I mailed every week to my list newsletter, I didn’t ask me anything live every Monday, it was consistent. And people would actually email me if they didn’t hear from me one week, like if it was a holiday week, or I was, you know, out with kids or whatever, like, Hey, are you okay? We didn’t hear from you. And this is the benefit, right of using a CRM well, is that you actually do start to develop those connections where people feel connected to you, if they’re opening your stuff you’re delivering value, they actually start to expect it and rely on it, which is just such a fun place to be. Well, Michelle, I know that this whole world of technology, email marketing, automation, there’s so much more that we could cover. But for folks that would like to reach out and learn more about how to get support in this area, and about the ways that you guys add awareness strategies, I know you’ve referenced Brad, a couple of times, I have to give a shout out to both Brad and Michelle, because I have worked with them, Brad, I call them my tech guy, he does a lot of stuff in that side of the world that I don’t have to deal with. And I’m so grateful. And he really is like an engineer, brain, you know, I am a pretty good problem solver. And I’ve tried to do things where I’ll finally reach out to Brad and he’ll be like, Why didn’t you reach out to me first? What were you doing around with this? Right? And it’s still like, I have to like, oh my gosh, yeah,

Michelle Nedelec  41:59

That’s what I… Here’s my thing, peeps, everybody needs a techie in their back pocket, we operate totally differently. And I was really afraid to say this when we first started because I thought, Oh, my God, this is going to be the bane of my existence. But we really do operate differently in that we are in constant communication with our clients. So we happen to use Facebook Messenger as your communications like, Hey, Brad, how are you doing? I really need your help.

Heather Pearce Campbell  42:21

And that’s why I’m still on Facebook, Michelle.

Michelle Nedelec  42:24

Right. And for some reason I’m on Facebook. And so we go in, we solve people’s problems for them. Because we get that when stuff blows up. Couldn’t say the other word. when stuff goes up. You don’t have three weeks to wait to go, oh, yeah, you’re in the queue. And this gonna take like, yeah, you’re in the queue, but it’ll probably get them today. Because you know, we, we triage. And most companies don’t triage, they put things in the queue, because you’ve asked for them and then planning out three weeks, our clients are like, hey, I need this done. Can you do this, and not in a rude sort of way, but in, like, so. I need to have this done now. And those emergencies, you know, if you’re bleeding to the front of the line, and we get things done for you, you have somebody that’s attached to your account, and they’re in charge of saying, hey, I can do this, I will do this now, or I don’t know how to do this, this is beyond my capacity, I will go to the specialist in this or I go to the specialist, and then I’ll go to the specialist and this. And if you don’t have a team of specialists on all those things, like, I don’t know how, like, internally, we don’t know how you do it. Because we have five people it’s like, oh, that’s a WordPress problem. That’s a key problem. That’s a challenge. Okay, and, and the person that needs to come in comes in and fixes the problem. So that’s the way we operate, which is totally different than any other company that I’ve seen, and it’s working for us, and we’re gonna keep doing it. Because small businesses, they really need that triage, they can’t wait three weeks to get a thing done. You can wait three weeks to get a picture done, maybe but for the most part, no.

Heather Pearce Campbell  43:57

Like you can’t wait three weeks if your website’s down or if emails are not working right? It really is true. I can’t emphasize what Michelle has just said enough because, as one example, towards the might have even been the start of this year, end of last year started this year. My website host was having all kinds of problems. It was down multiple days in a row. My email did not work for either of my businesses for three days straight. I could not send or receive an email. I mean, it was like, you know, stop everything. We have to fix this. And so they ended up moving website hosts for multiple of my sites, resetting up and reconfiguring all of my email, running all of these tests right and this was not something that I had the time to do.

Michelle Nedelec  44:51

wherewithal or anything right.

Heather Pearce Campbell  44:53

I realized after a few hours, like Oh, my heavens, my emails are not working. This is really weird to have a quiet email and then this went on for three days. So are

Michelle Nedelec  45:03

you call tech support? And they’re like, oh, you know, have you uploaded the blah blah, blah? Yeah.

Heather Pearce Campbell  45:09

Let’s go here and to this key before we can even help you I know.

Michelle Nedelec  45:13

Yes. Just get tech to stand on line with tech because then they can call each other on the ship. No, no, that’s not the problem. But it did it. But then they started talking to listen to go.

Heather Pearce Campbell  45:25

Yeah, this is a flag for Brad. Go, Brad. Go Brad and team. Yes. So it really is critical. I know that there’s a lot that we could talk about that lives in that world. But Michelle, where can people find you? Where do you like for them to connect with you online?

Michelle Nedelec  45:42

Nice. Well, the first thing we’d like to do is make sure that your website is up and running. So go to awarenessstrategies.com/website-audit. And you can go and put your website in there and it’ll pump out a 36 to 45, depending on the size of your website, page report that you can start to see all of the things that you’re doing red light, yellow, light, green light, just like the traffic. red means stop, don’t do this anymore. And Google hates when you do that, and you’re gonna get slapped on the wrist or ignored, which is even worse. And then you have your yellow, which is warnings, hey, you might not want to be doing this, or this could be done better. This is like, you want to take this but do that after the red ones. And then hey, these are all the green lines. Yay, you’re doing this right. Congratulations. Good for you. And we usually find that people have at least you know, 3% of those.

Heather Pearce Campbell  46:33

Right? I know in the back of my head. I’m like, Whoa, I need to go do this thing. Okay. I will share that link for the website audit at the show notes page, which you can find legalwebsitewarrior.com/podcast. Michelle, I heard you say you’re on social media, but I’m not going to direct people to any particular one until you tell us where you like to show up.

Michelle Nedelec  46:56

Awesome. Well, if you’d like to get a hold of me, I am almost always on Facebook. As the recording. Totally shut me down. And the government of Canada shuts me down because I’ve been a bad girl lately. But, you know, I like to be a little controversial. It’s fun. So you can go to michelle.net. Like number one. Because they took away my account. I was so mad. I was Michelle Nedelac for like 10 years on Facebook. And then they did this huge overhaul and I got a new name and I was so mad. But Oh. So yeah, I’m michelle.net. Like one but everywhere else. I’m Michelle Nedelac. Twitter, LinkedIn. Find me on Discord because I don’t know how to use it and I need friends.

Heather Pearce Campbell  47:38

Okay, go connect with Michelle on Discord. That’s hilarious. We’ll share all of your social links. And then. So folks, if you’re listening, and you’re thinking, Oh, my heavens, I need help in this area. do reach out to Michelle and Brad they are they can also be found online at awarenessstrategies.com. Michelle, what final thoughts or action steps would you like to leave people with today?

Michelle Nedelec  48:04

I would like to leave you with this. It took me three years to start my first podcast. Because of the tech. I didn’t know what platform to use. It was confusing to me. Even though I knew what an RSS feed was, I’d put them on many websites. I didn’t get the whole thing. Don’t let that happen to you. You have a phenomenal idea within you. You have a fantastic business that needs to get online. All you need is a little bit of support in that area. And as soon as you’re done like, Oh my God, why didn’t I do this years ago, this would have been so much easier. And really all it takes is to start with a phone call and figure out you know where you’re at, how we can simplify your life, make it easier for you so that you can go and do your jam because doing your jam. Whether it’s you know, helping people at their tech writing copy or doing pottery.

Heather Pearce Campbell  48:52

Right babysitting. Do you do babysitting, kidding, puppies? Okay. I’ve got one that’s been squealing All right, Michelle, you’re awesome. That’s a great takeaway. Tip. If you have felt stalled on anything in your business, don’t let it keep you there any longer, reach out and get some support. Michelle, thanks for coming today. It’s such a pleasure to connect with you.

Michelle Nedelec  49:16

It’s been awesome. Thank you. I’m fine.

GGGB Outro  49:18

Thank you for joining us today on the Guts, Grit and Great Business™ podcast. We hope that we’ve added a little fuel to your tank, some coffee to your cup and pep in your step to keep you moving forward in your own great adventures. For key takeaways, links to any resources mentioned in today’s show and more, see the show notes which can be found at www.legalwebsitewarrior.com/podcast. Be sure to subscribe to the podcast and if you enjoyed today’s conversation, please give us some stars and a review on Apple podcasts, Spotify or wherever you get your podcast so others will find us too. Keep up the great work you are doing in the world and we’ll see you next week.