With Nicholle Overkamp, MBA, ChFC®, CDFA®, a personal finance expert and business coach for women. She’s the Founder and CEO of Wilcox Financial Group and PowHERhouse Money Coaching.

PowHERhouse Money focuses on business coaching for ambitious women, wealth coaching and educational programming! Wilcox Financial Group is a comprehensive financial planning firm. It was founded to create an environment that’s progressive and client centric with outstanding high-touch service. 

Nicholle is also the co-author of the best-selling book Money Bitch: A no BS guide for smart women to own their financial future. Empowering women isn’t only a mission for Nicholle through her companies but also in her personal life as she serves on the Board for Girl Scouts of WNY, SheCAN!, and The Center for Hope of WNY. Lastly, she’s a fitness fanatic, outdoors lover, caffeine addict and Audible obsessed.

Join us for this fabulous conversation where we talk about the power of niching down in order to explode your business, the importance of educating our clients to support the client journey, and the role of accountability for many service providers. You will love hearing how Nicholle broke through industry barriers in order to change her industry’s landscape and create a business she loves. Be sure to stick around to the end where Nicholle shares some powerful financial and money strategies for making strides in both your business and your personal life. 

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Biggest takeaways (or quotes) you don’t want to miss:

• “You can be excellent at your craft but running a business is way different.”
• “When it comes to your money, you need to trust the person you’re working with… you deserve to understand what’s going on and what you need to do.”
• “Double down on your zone of genius and outsource everything else as quickly as possible”
• “In the beginning, you can’t be everything to everyone. You need to work smarter, not harder.”
• “Accountability is important on the financial planning side… and is absolutely non-negotiable in terms of working with our clients.”
• “Pay attention to what your most profitable part of your business, including your hours and staff hours, because we sometimes don’t realize that what we’re offering isn’t as profitable as it should be.”

“When you do a better job educating, you’re actually creating a better client.”

-Nicholle Overkamp

Check out these highlights:

• 06:43 Nicholle shares how her interests in finances and money wealth building started.
• 14:28 Money is a vulnerable thing
• 20:07 One of the best lessons Nicholle has learned in the process.
• 32:58 Nicholle explains the educational programming she has built to help her clients in her financial business.
• 44:32 Listen to Nicholle share her final tip for the listeners.

How to get in touch with Nicholle:

On social media:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nicholleoverkamp/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/nicover17/

Learn more about Nicholle, by visiting her website here.

Special offer for listeners: 20% off promo for their online courses

Imperfect Show Notes

We are happy to offer these imperfect show notes to make this podcast more accessible to those who are hearing impaired or those who prefer reading over listening. While we would love to offer more polished show notes, we are currently offering an automated transcription (which likely includes errors, but hopefully will still deliver great value), below.

GGGB Intro  00:00

Here’s what to expect today.

Nicholle Overkamp  00:02

Let’s be honest no matter how much you love your job like there are days where it’s a grind and you just don’t feel like it when you’re at least working with people that you choose to work with that can make such a difference and so that’s really how I narrowed that down was simply starting there and then saying Okay, moving forward, I’m just talking to these women and what I mean by that is as we were marketing or talking like I was talking to women like that, that truly helped in when we did that people started to seek us out versus us seeking them out which again was such a game changer when you feel like for so long you’re outwardly pounding the pavement right and trying to bring in new business and to flip that switch was it was great because it allowed us more time to actually help and do better things for our clients and add more value.

GGGB Intro  01:02

The adventure of entrepreneurship and building a life and business you love, preferably at the same time is not for the faint of heart. That’s why Heather Pearce Campbell is bringing you a dose of guts, grit and great business stories that will inspire and motivate you to create what you want in your business and life. Welcome to the Guts, Grit and Great Business™ podcast where endurance is required. Now, here’s your host, The Legal Website Warrior®, Heather Pearce Campbell.

Heather Pearce Campbell  01:35

Alright, welcome. I am Heather Pearce Campbell, The Legal Website Warrior®. I’m an attorney and legal coach based here in Seattle, Washington, serving information in entrepreneurs around the US and the world. Welcome to another episode of Guts, Grit and Great Business™. Today I have Nicholle Overkamp on the show. Welcome, Nicholle.

Nicholle Overkamp  01:59

Thank you, Heather.

Heather Pearce Campbell  02:00

Yeah, it’s great to have you here. So for folks that don’t know, Nicholle, we’re going to have a fun conversation about finances and wealth building and I am super excited. This is a topic that we all have to deal with and we all need to get super comfortable with. And so we need folks that can help us have real and powerful conversations around money, personal finances, wealth coaching, etc. So Nicholle, I’m excited. I’m personally excited for this conversation. I know our listeners will get a lot out of it. For those of you that don’t know, Nicholle Overkamp and we were just laughing because I had to ask her before we started, what are all of the acronyms behind your day? So we are gonna get those right. But Nicholle Overkamp is an MBA. She’s also a chartered financial consultant and a certified divorce financial analyst. She’s also a personal finance expert and business coach for women. She’s the founder and CEO of Wilcox Financial Group and her house money coaching powerhouse money focuses on business coaching for ambitious women, wealth coaching and educational programming. Wilcox Financial Group is a comprehensive financial planning firm. It was founded to create an environment that’s progressive and client centric with outstanding high touch service. Nicholle is the co author of the best selling book, money bitch a No BS guide for smart women to own their financial future. Empowering women isn’t only a mission for Nicholle through her companies, but also in her personal life as she serves on the board for Girl Scouts of Western I assume that’s why Western New York Yes, yes, she can and the Center for Hope of Western New York. She’s a fitness fanatic outdoors lover. Whoo. I’m a fellow outdoors lover, caffeine addict and audibly obsessed. I love it. Nicholle, welcome. So happy to have you here.

Nicholle Overkamp  04:02

I am excited for this conversation.

Heather Pearce Campbell  04:05

Yeah, I am too. Let’s start with the love of the outdoors. When… where do you… what do you like to do in in relation to the outdoors in your spare time?

Nicholle Overkamp  04:13

All the things. So I love hiking. That is my happy place where you know I try to do at least four hikes a year with the girls. My husband hates hiking so I try to play on strategically there. In Bodhi, we my husband, he actually owns Marina, so big into boating and we get a very short season here in Buffalo, New York, but we try to make it the best in snowboarding and truly like I tried to just take every season and be outside as much as possible. I walk every day. Regardless of the weather. There’s a very wise man that told me once that there’s never bad weather, just the wrong clothes. So that’s the first activity that I tried to take just to make sure I’m always at some point, like just soaking up that nature for a little peace of mind.

Heather Pearce Campbell  05:08

Oh, it’s so important. I love that. There’s never been me days here. I’m in Seattle, and I’m just over the rain and I want to walk. You don’t look at my husband and be like, it’s raining. He’s like, so I know, I was just looking for an excuse. But I actually love walking. I do a ton of walking. And now that I have a puppy, I do even more walking.

Nicholle Overkamp  05:31

Yes, it’s a good excuse. You know? You want to know a fun fact. Seattle is actually sunnier in Buffalo. Oh, really?

Heather Pearce Campbell  05:42

Whoa, so you guys get the weather.

Nicholle Overkamp  05:48

I actually, we were… My husband and I did a coach trip. And we started in Seattle and made our way down. And we did some kind of touristy thing. And that was one of their fun facts. And everyone in the boat was like, Oh, I can’t believe that. And we’re just hiding, you know, like, that’s where we chose to live full time.

Heather Pearce Campbell  06:07

I know. I know. Well, I tell people don’t come here during the summer, because then you’re gonna find out why we all live here. Right? It’s just amazing and beautiful during the summer months. But yeah, well, I love that. And I, I just I love anybody who’s a fan of the outdoors and is able to incorporate some of that balance into their life and you know, make it happen. So that’s fabulous. Share with us a little bit about where your interests in finances, money and wealth building. Where did that start?

Nicholle Overkamp  06:42

Well, I think it started when I was young. I mean, we did not grow up in a home with a lot of money, we actually had very little of it. And I was surrounded by people who did. And so I was always aware that we didn’t have the things or didn’t have the abilities that all my friends had. And so from a young age, it really made me want to work hard, so that I didn’t have to make hard choices or say no or feel excluded. So I always had a job, I think I started working when I was like nine, you know, with all of the little odds and ends that you could do for neighbors and in from that point, all the way through college and actually didn’t know I wanted to be a financial adviser, I thought I wanted to be an attorney. And you know, it turns out, it wasn’t cut out for it. So I just couldn’t take the internships. And then, you know, long story short, I was working part time for a financial advisor at the time and just fell in love with the industry and the idea of I still get to help people, but it was a little bit more engaging and active, I have a very busy mind to get bored quickly of ADHD. And so it really interested me to have the best of both worlds in bridging that gap. So that’s where it started. And as I learned more about the industry and what I had to offer and what it could do, I got more and more obsessed with the idea around being able to make an impact in a positive way. And helping people and then as I grew up, I have truly like I started when I was 21. And so as I grew up, you know, at race age of like 24, I was like, wow, like I can do better, I can do more in and that’s when I decided to start thinking about leaving. And then a little bit later I did because I wanted to start a firm that could really break down a lot of the barriers around financial planning. And in terms of making it more accessible, making it less intimidating, more digestible, and like a friendlier face, you know, and really custom tailoring it around the women and being focused on comprehensive planning, being focused on education versus having to just sell a product. You know, I was so disgusted with a lot of what I saw. And the more I tried to be different, or the more I tried to change or ask questions, the more pushback I got, the more resistance and so it was easy for me to see that it wasn’t a space for me. But also when I left it was a very quick and mature. I’m done leaving without a plan kind of thing. So you know, I learned quite a bit about business very fast. You can be excellent at your craft, but running a business is way different. And you know, and I’m sure a lot of listeners can relate to that in terms of like you really have to just learn to sail fast right so that you can make up for it. To move forward. Yeah,

Heather Pearce Campbell  09:55

Yeah. Yeah, you said a couple things that sparked my interest and I’m curious what, what you feel like? Because when you said there, you know, you wanted to help break down the barriers to entry to financial planning, what are those?

Nicholle Overkamp  10:11

A lot of time, it is intimidation. So in I felt that as a financial advisor in the firm I was working for, I mean, it was a lot of very ego driven men that if that just didn’t talk with you, or have a conversation, it was a lot of talking at you, I’m better at you, I’m going to intimidate you, and confuse you, when I’m talking to you don’t ask me questions, like, it seems to be a lot of a pattern. And I saw it with clients, I saw it with myself, it was a way that I saw, you know, man, like a lot of people are looking at these guys and thinking, I don’t have enough money or ability to invest with you, or I’m afraid they’re gonna judge me. Or, I don’t trust that. I just don’t trust that. And so there’s this barrier there. And, and then for women, especially, there’s so many feelings of shame, vulnerability, and, and truly, the fear of being judged, or the fear of them. You know, I actually just talked to someone the other day who just became a client, and she said, I’m so excited to work with you. Because the other men that I’ve talked to make me feel like I should just have it all figured out. You know. And so it’s those types of things. And so it’s breaking down those barriers in terms of saying, hey, look like we are more alike than we are different here. And regardless, if you’re earning $100,000, a year or a million dollars a year, you’re just starting out, and maybe you’re earning negative dollars, right? If you’re just starting your business, there should always be a place where you can come and seek help, and not feel like you’re less than, right. And so that’s really what my mission was initially because I just saw so much of what really shouldn’t be and it is and it’s the industry. And so I wanted to create a space that was just completely different.

Heather Pearce Campbell  12:11

Well, and I was that was gonna be my next question is did you feel like that was a dynamic that was unique to your firm? And that particular group you were working with? Or do you see that across the industry?

Nicholle Overkamp  12:23

I see it across the industry, I think, you know, my firm was definitely very heavy sales, all men. But that is across the industry, you know, and, and because before starting my own firm I did when I left there, I interviewed at 12 other places. And it was the same feeling over and over again. And, and when I was going through the interview process, they looked at me like, oh, you know what, this? Okay, hon, well, maybe right? Or that’s Q and I think you maybe you can start like a little women’s division for us. And it was just like, No one, it didn’t take me seriously. And it was always that nonchalant, condescending tone, that is to be quite honest in and I’ve started to smile about this the other day, I don’t think they even know they’re doing it. Like, I genuinely believe that they have no idea that they are talking to their boss that way. And it seems to be an age thing too. Like it’s really most men like not to discriminate here. But many men over the age of like maybe 45. And everybody younger, I don’t feel that same, that same tone, but at the time years ago, that’s all that there was, you know, so? Yeah, so it was really quite different. And it just gave me that taste like man, like we got to do better.

Heather Pearce Campbell  13:50

Well, even you know that the description of being talked at and that final piece you mentioned, like there were reasons why clients may not have felt like that was a fit, but the trust piece, right about not having a conversation or the confidence or breaking down some of those barriers, like shame or like some of the internal things that are happening, right, if you’re being talked at, and you’re being directed in a certain way or not really establishing rapport or relationship or changing perspectives. That’s a hard way to start a professional engagement.

Nicholle Overkamp  14:28

Yeah, absolutely. And when it comes to your money, I mean, that is a vulnerable thing. And you need to trust the person you’re working with, you need to feel comfortable or you should anyway and have that level of communication versus feeling like you’re afraid to ask questions because it’s your money and you deserve to understand what’s going on and what you need to do.

Heather Pearce Campbell  14:54

Well, and you mentioned shame, and particularly in regards to women. What have you noticed with your female clients in regards to engaging services from a, you know, financial planning firm from yourself, what do you notice are their gender differences?

Nicholle Overkamp  15:13

Yes, and I think the most is, when I see with women, they are so hard on themselves, where they might not even be in that bad of a position, but they’re so embarrassed because they’re just not in the position they think they should be in. Okay? We tend to we, as women, myself included, tell ourselves this crazy story in our heads of where we should be at x benchmark and the things we should know and the things that we should be doing, we should ourselves to death, before peeling back the layers and saying like, wait a minute, I’m actually doing pretty damn good. I just need help in these areas in seeking the help, you know, you’re not bad with money, you just need to learn how to use money to reach your goals, right, there’s a huge difference, and we just beat ourselves up. And so that’s one thing that I see where a lot of the time when I talk to women, immediately, they’ll be like, I’m so sorry, I, you know, I should have done more or I should have saved more or I know, I should know where my money is going. And I don’t and they make so much money. And it’s like it’s all gone. And all the things right, or I just don’t look at the numbers because they intimidate me and I pretend they don’t exist, you know, especially with like a lot of our business owner clients. And so that happens more so with women than with men. They tend to have more of a barrier actually. And so it’s not that they don’t have those feelings, they show up differently. And I think a lot of the time, especially with the couples that we work with, they feel like they need to take care of the household. So they don’t actually voice they’re having anxiety about it, or not sure they’re doing it wrong, or they do need help, but they don’t want to stress out their spouse. So I see that a lot too. And then in opening up, the conversation of burden is lifted. But sometimes there’s that resistance in terms of they’re also afraid of men so much more than women afraid to be told what to do. versus you know, so there’s that fear factor there. So, so some of the differences, but definitely from a psychological perspective showing up in I think holding back more because that men are more proactive and taking action, and not caring as much about the whole judgment factor where women really judge themselves to, you know, to death and hold back because they have anxiety around it, or procrastination and then just prolong it a little bit longer is typically when I see.

Heather Pearce Campbell  17:45

Yeah, well, it’s so interesting that you say that, that the men show up differently and like you’re less likely to see that stuff up front. Like once you get into conversation. Having been through this process with my husband, myself, it took us years here is to be able to get onto the same page. And when I say same page, I just mean even have like a real thorough discussion about money, talking about, you know, the main goals and where we’re at with things and what we’d like to do differently or better. And it was through the help of a financial planner, and a you know, an advisor that we found that basically guided us through this series of conversations, you know, but it took really skillful help to get because I got to hear some things from my husband that I was like, Whoa, like, you’ve never said that out loud to me. Right? It was really fascinating. And so, I agree there are differences in how we show up and talk about money, the expectations that we put on ourselves, the, you know, the various things that that we do as men and women in our roles with and conversations around money. So, so you left going back to your story. You left this firm, you started out on your own talk to us about some of your early entrepreneurial roots as you were starting your own business.

Nicholle Overkamp  19:11

What I did wrong.

Heather Pearce Campbell  19:15

I know 

Nicholle Overkamp  19:15

Well, it was I had no idea what I was doing. I truly had no idea what I was doing. And not from a financial planning perspective. I was so good at that. And I thought that because all I did was study, all I did was work literally, like anywhere from 15 to 18 hours a day, six days a week. It was just stupid. I thought that if I worked so hard, harder than anybody else business would just happen. And what I didn’t realize was that in the beginning, you can’t be everything to everyone. You need to work smarter, not harder, you need to ask for help and leverage your strengths. And one of the best lessons I learned was to double down on your zone of genius and outsource everything else as quickly as possible. And so, you know, the best thing that I did within the first year of me going out on my own was hiring an assistant. And that actually was Sarah, my now partner, bless her heart. But I knew that I was so bad at paperwork, I knew that I was terrible at organization. And so it was just getting started and kind of taking quick ownership of the things that I knew I shouldn’t be touching or doing. And really honing in and focusing on my zone of genius, and then stumbling along the way and refining our story refining who we’re talking to, and in being falling into the confidence of it’s okay to say, we’re only working with women and couples, we’re only working with this type of woman, you know, and, and it was really scary, because there were so many other advisors who told me that was a stupid idea. And that I won’t make as much money that way. Or I’m not going to be successful if I get that targeted. And the reality is, the more storytelling I did, and more targeted I did, the more we grew, the quicker we grew. And so, you know, it was a good thing, I at that point, to just listen to my intuition and move forward, and really show up authentically, and it took time, and a lot of grit and like perseverance, and a lot of nights just like feeling like I was pounding my head against the wall saying like, my gosh, like, Am I doing the right things in my head, it was really scary, especially as I started to have employees and, you know, you’re, you’re supporting everybody else’s livelihood, that you’re you feel this, like extreme stress, not even to like just show up for your clients, but then make sure that you’re not failing. And are the people that you’re counting on you. So it was really a lot of ups and downs, you know, and in terms of getting started and just signing that cadence and, and really where where we should be focusing and honing in on because I think that’s something that all business owners struggle with, too, is like where, you know, do you want to have a target market? Should you? Yes, you should. And, you know, certainly the worst thing you can do is do all the things and be everything to everyone. And in the financial planning industry, that’s actually kind of what they teach, right? Do all the things be everything to everyone. And so it was, it was very much going against the grain and starting out, and it’s kind of in the trend of our practice, and in terms of like, looking at what everybody else is doing and running in the opposite direction. And so far, it worked out. Okay, you know.

Heather Pearce Campbell  22:54

Well, yeah, you raise it, and thank you for sharing that piece of the story and the challenges around niching down and the resistance that you received around that I think it’s a real thing, and particularly early in somebody’s career, early in somebody’s business development and early entrepreneurial stage. I think people get very afraid to do that, you know, for that reason, like, oh, well, what if I don’t have the right niche? What if I choose the wrong one? What if you know what if this harms me in some way, and yet, what you’ve described as like, each time that you’ve done that your growth has accelerated, is absolutely what so many of us experience when we do niche down when we do say, Look, we only exclusively serve these folks. Was it hard for you to choose not only women, but just a subset of women? How did that process go? How did you end up choosing the women that you serve now?

Nicholle Overkamp  23:55

So it was an app, I had ended up hiring a business coach and I was really struggling because there’s a lot of stuff that happened in between that kind of drove me to this but she said well, who are your top three clients like not your top three revenue clients, not the top three, like assets under management or anything like that, just who are your top three clients that you enjoy working with? Write them down without thinking about it? And I did just that and they were all were women like me, I guess I like myself a lot. So but it was this subset of women that just ended up to fall in between that, you know, that 30 to 50 ish age gap. They were ambitious, they were type A, they were career focused or a business owner. And and again, I think it just comes to that level where and there’s outliers there’s there’s really amazing 20 Somethings and 50s or 60 year olds that are like super, you know, it still and but but be it is it may it was being able I think to mostly just relate to those women in a way that was so simple. And just like plain fun, like, I have so much fun with my clients, and I can tell it and know that you do too. And, and that makes all the difference. Like when you’re working a ton of hours, if you feel like you’re just having conversations with friends, or you can really relate to them. I mean, it makes it better and easier on my end and yours. You know, it makes planning less painful, if it’s something that intimidates you. And it makes me more excited to show up. And really get through the day sometimes when I mean, let’s be honest, no matter how much you love your job, like there are days where it’s a grind, and you just don’t feel like it. When you’re at least working with people that you choose to work with, that can make such a difference. And so that’s really how I narrowed that down was simply starting there and then saying, Okay, moving forward, I’m just talking to these women. And what I mean by that is, as we were marketing or talking like I was writing to women like that, that truly helped in, when we did that people started to seek us out versus us seeking them out. Which again, was such a game changer. When you feel like for so long you’re outwardly pounding the pavement, right and trying to bring in new business. And to flip that switch was great, because it allowed us more time to actually help in and do better things for our clients and add more value.

Heather Pearce Campbell  26:32

Well, and that’s mean, that’s such the benefit of being so clear on who you serve, that when they connect with your messaging, connect with your website, connect with wherever you are, they go, oh, yeah, she’s talking to me. Right, that you talked about it flipping the switch. That’s awesome. One thing that stood out in your introduction, and I’m just curious where this fits for you, and why you care so much about it is the educational programming. Talk to us about that piece, either of your business, or how you decided that that was an important component.

Nicholle Overkamp  27:05

Because so often we agree to things out of intimidation, or a state of lack. And we realize down the road, that it wasn’t something we should have agreed to, we should have asked more questions, or more importantly, we should have had the confidence to ask the questions. And so I am so huge on education for a few reasons. One is I’ve seen so many clients in a position that wasn’t what they thought, because they didn’t understand or know. And that’s your like, like, it’s Shoot, shoot, shoot. And for me personally, when I started where I did at the, you know, at my first financial planning job, it was like pure intimidation, like very much kind of like a Wolf On Wall Street atmosphere. But but pure intimidation, and I didn’t ask questions, I would go try to find out myself because I was terrified of them thinking I was completely incompetent. And after they already like, diagnosed me as such, because I was a young female. So it’s that. And then I also saw even growing up, my mom, she did the best she could, but she didn’t know what she didn’t know. And because of that she didn’t live her best life. And I just see it time and time again, where knowledge is power to a degree but you have to know how to implement it. And you can only implement it if you understand the impact. And so it’s so much deeper for us than just giving it the information, but it’s making sure that women understand and the clients that are working with us that they not only understand the knowledge, but they get the impact of implementing it and the results that they can attain for themselves. And so, for me, that’s so powerful, because we get to play, we get the privilege of playing a role in seeing those results. And I’ve seen the difference even for myself when I actually have the confidence to ask the questions for a very long time, if you haven’t seen a theme, like I had confidence issues. And, you know, asking, asking those questions and understanding how important sometimes obtaining that knowledge is and knowing that you’re worth the effort, knowing that you’re deserving of an answer. And getting over the fact that someone else is intimidating, you know, because if if they are making you feel that way, it’s a dumb problem, not a new problem. And you always deserve that. So, you know, I’ve just made it a huge part of our mission to make sure that if if we see a look on the client space that we’re getting curious about that and saying What don’t you understand what aren’t you speaking up about a But then truly making sure on the other end through and through that, that we’re just making it a part of practice.

Heather Pearce Campbell  30:05

Yeah, I love this theme of education so much. And I think particularly in relation to long standing professions where the information is kind of like how it was inside of, you know, I call it like the blackbox model, right? In the legal world, it’s really expensive for clients to get inside the black box to get your information and the education that they need, before they can even get to the point of making the right decision. I think it’s what you’re talking about to like, understanding what the map is and where they are on the map so that they feel empowered to make this decision versus that one, or, you know, understanding the why behind the decision versus being intimidated into making that decision, or being totally, you know, by a business coach or somebody like if you don’t, you know, and so they don’t know exactly why they’re making it, but they just feel they have to it’s, it’s such a place of disempowerment. And I love what you said there at the end about, if you’re a service provider, paying attention to your clients, when they’re giving you signals that maybe they don’t understand, or, you know, or they’re a little bit lost or confused, because I think all of us can do such a better job of really front ending that education to not only cultivate a client relationship, but to also help I’m a really big believer that we can help to create the client that we want to show up on our doorstep. Yeah, right, create the client that shows up to our services.

Nicholle Overkamp  31:37

Yeah. And you know, what I found too, is when you do a better job educating you’re actually creating a better client, they’re going to when things get rough, especially in our business, you know, as the market is down, or whatever the case may be, they’re not going to freak out. They’re okay. They’re expecting it, you know, there’s less questions there, so they turn into more of a lifetime client when you invest the time in them to go through all of that, versus just trying to do something quick and sloppy. So you know, and again, it’s just time after time learning that that is such an important part of the piece, especially, you know, as a service provider.

Heather Pearce Campbell  32:20

Yeah, absolutely. Well, I think, you know, I don’t think for the most part, I don’t think service providers intend to get it wrong. I’m an optimist. I tell myself they don’t, they can’t possibly intend to, like continue the level of intimidation or kind of secrecy, or like we have all the information you don’t have the kind of thing that happens like that power dynamic. I just feel it’s so important that we break that down. How, what educational programming, have you built into your business or through your client services that help your clients in that way?

Nicholle Overkamp  32:54

So a couple of different things. So if their client is far as one on one for financial planning, or money coaching, it’s literally just part of the process. So every part of what we are covering, it is a, you said you wanted to achieve this, we think these options are best for you, here’s why, you know, here’s what you’re capable of achieving, and then educating thoroughly through those different processes and showing them to like the pros and cons, because there’s always, of course, multiple pathways to achieve something. And then for those who aren’t ready yet to work with us one on one and get to that level, during COVID, I created a bunch of online courses. So there’s a ton of online courses that we created that are just pure education, videos, worksheets. So that way you can go in there and learn whatever it is that you want to learn and go ahead and implement it yourself. So at least that way, you’re getting the knowledge base or foundation and, and we’ve had a number of clients who wanted to go through the courses first and then work with us after which is totally fine. Everybody has a very different level of where they’re comfortable getting started.

Heather Pearce Campbell  34:13

Well, and the thing that’s so fun about like, I mean, that sounds like you put in a ton of work creating an online course. I know having been through the process myself, it’s not always an easy straightforward thing to do. Or do well I should say is you can use them in different ways, right? You can supplement your primary services or provide them as a product on their own that become a lead into your services. So that’s such a great way to complement your practice and what you do with your work, what is it that you enjoy most? And obviously I know work can sometimes be a grind, like we have those days where you know, we’re doing I don’t know, any number of things that maybe like I still need to get a bunch of things off my plate onto the plate of some of my team right? But when you are really lit up and doing the things that you love to be doing in your business. What does that look like?

Nicholle Overkamp  35:07

It is anytime I’m a client facing. So it’s during a financial planning meeting or a coaching meeting, if I’m speaking and doing a workshop, those are the times where I am completely full, it lights me up, I love that. If I ever have to sit behind the scenes and do a lot of analysis, or research or sitting still, like that is the part of the job where I know I need to do it, but I don’t, like doesn’t light me up doesn’t put my soul on fire, you know, it’s the, it’s the client facing things that that do. Because to me that is truly just, it’s fun. It’s the fun part. It’s where you get to uncover everything that you’ve either worked for, or that you’re going to get to work for and and have that opportunity or in the event of like a workshop, you’re, you’re seeing that that mental transformation happen. And the engagement happening. And the excitement to just share that and get others excited to me is really so cool.

Heather Pearce Campbell  36:08

Yeah. Well, and I’m sure getting to see the results in your clients life, like when they’re taking on the information and making new decisions. Do you have a way of working with your clients like not that you need to disclose any, you know, special frameworks or special sauce or anything but like some sample steps that you walk clients through when you’re helping them evaluate their personal money situation? Or change some things around wealth planning? What are some of the things that you would typically would help them look at or make decisions around?

Nicholle Overkamp  36:38

So what in a financial planning relationship typically, you know, we are helping them make decisions around anything that their money touches? And so it can be extremely comprehensive in terms of really deciding whether or not they’re going to retire, or how they’re going to continue their business and a succession plan. And we have a lot of business owners saying like, wow, could I be more of an entrepreneur working myself out of a position and continuing to retain an income from this and be able to make that part of my future strategic plan? Or am I going to have to plan other avenues and just shut the business down at some point, because there isn’t someone who can do what I do two very different scenarios with business owners, and sometimes it’s helping them figure out if they can help pay for college or is simple as just getting started in like getting a cash flow plan together and how to get rid of debt. You know, it’s just it’s so all over the place. But regardless of where a client is starting out, beginner or more advanced, is it all start with the same process of what is it that you want to accomplish? And why do you want to accomplish that? So helping with that initial reverse engineering process of really thinking about what’s important to you? What do you want to achieve? And then the why. And we always ask, why. Because if you don’t know why it’s important, you’re never going to be excited or disciplined enough to follow through through those grindy periods of time or through the times that don’t always feel like fun. And that is why it is really important. And it’s what we use as leverage. When you start to show up or you’re not following through we’re committed we can remind you of what you’re working towards, what’s important, or if you’re needing to pivot perhaps because hey, you know what life happens and we change our mind. So, we’re always starting with that and having a full conversation around what you want to see, where you want to be, and who you’re becoming in, then the planning happens. Because without that, what’s the point? You know, you can look at all the numbers, but they’re not going to have meaning behind them. And then you’re not going to be likely to follow through anyway then and truly get those results.

Heather Pearce Campbell  39:12

Well, and I wonder on the follow through that you mentioned right and having that big why like connecting science with their Why do you find that part of your role is actually just that accountability piece, like even the advisor role? Or are there ways that you build accountability into a process are other ways that you can help to hold your clients accountable and talk to us about that particular piece? 

Nicholle Overkamp  39:37

Oh, we are huge on accountability. You need to be I mean, look money’s hard, is it not you know, so accountability is important and so with on the financial planning side, we have a software system that we use that you actually link up everything to on a live feed so we can see that but also more accurate, you know, tracking of everything because sometimes our mental Filming is different than real accounting. But so we do that. But we also check in really frequently, we have a lot of communication with our clients. And then if it’s a coaching client, we have an accountability coach, in addition to the coaching that I’m doing. So staff are our accountability coach who actually checks in weekly with our coaching clients to just simply say, Hey, you said you were going to do these things last week? How is that going? Did you follow through with that? If yes, let’s celebrate it because we don’t celebrate ourselves enough. But then what is it this week that you’re looking forward to? Or that you’re stuck with? Or you’re having a challenge with and really helping to move that forward? And oftentimes, if something doesn’t get done, that’s where we need to dig in and figure out, was it unrealistic? Do we need to pivot? Was it a mindset issue? Or some kind of block? holding you back? In what story? Are we telling ourselves that we need to maybe rework, right a little bit? So on either end, it’s going to look a little bit different, but the accountability to us is absolutely non negotiable in terms of working with our clients and that frequent communication?

Heather Pearce Campbell  41:13

Well, and it’s, you know, I’m glad that you shared on that. And I actually love hearing about your process, that you actually have an accountability coach separate from, you know, the financial coach, tells you what a huge part of the process that it is. And for those listening, you know, I would personally encourage you to find somebody like this that has accountability built into their services into the frameworks, I can attest, personally, that for us, that piece has been huge, you know, getting the little reminder emails or scheduling, the next meeting is always like, oh, yeah, time, we’ve got to, like, revisit our goals before we have to sit down across the table and actually talk about whether we met them, right, you know, making sure that we have what we committed to and savings and in various accounts and all of this, and it’s it really is, I would say a night and day difference between just being given a plan and left on your own to go execute that plan. Right? There’s, there’s something built into creating an accountability system or framework or having a provider that helps you do that, that, really, I think, is the difference between sometimes doing it and not doing it,

Nicholle Overkamp  42:25

Oh, for sure. I mean, if you know someone’s watching, you’re going to be a better student, you know, I need that just even with the gym and eating, like, if I know, someone’s paying attention, I’m going to pay better attention, you know, and it’s funny how we operate like that. And especially women, well, we’re people pleasers, right? We want to make whoever it is that we’re working with proud. And then in turn, we feel really good about that. And I think having that sense of accomplishment, accomplishment, too, and knowing what you just achieved, even if it was really hard, makes you feel so good. Makes you feel so good that you just achieve that. And then you realize and recognize you can do more, right? You can continue going and it really creates this awesome perpetual advancement of your ability to continue doing whatever it is that you set out to.

Heather Pearce Campbell  43:23

Yeah, well, it’s, you know, even some days, the way that I think about it is like As humans, we have limited energy, limited time and limited attention spans. And, sometimes we just have to, like pressurize a scenario, like add some additional pressure to it to make sure we are incentivized enough to handle that right, and to incorporate it into our schedule into the ways that we expend our energy and our time. So yeah, I love that. And I love that you have it built into your process. So Nicholle, talk to us. And I know, we’ve just got a few minutes left here. But what are some things you know when you think about an audience of entrepreneurs, and these are likely going to be folks that range from beginning a business to quite established businesses making millions of dollars a year? What are some things that you either wish you had known or your clients that you work with? wish they had known earlier in their money journeys? Are there any kind of final tips that you can share with the listeners?

Nicholle Overkamp  44:29

Yes, paying attention to what your most profitable part of your business is. So often times we confuse revenue with profit. And we may have a belief that our highest ticket offer is the most profitable but we’re not paying attention to how much time we’re actually spending on that client facing before and after and everything that goes into that. And so early on, I wish I I would have paid more attention to the actual time I was spending on certain projects or cases or types of business that I was doing, versus just looking at the actual price, because when I broke it down, my most expensive or highest paying offers, if you were well, weren’t the most profitable. And so it really made me narrow in and hone in on what I was offering, what I wasn’t offering anything in my business anymore. Like it was really nice to say I don’t do that anymore, and get rid of some of that deadweight, which is again, scary. But when you look at the numbers, it actually makes it simple to do. And usually you don’t love that stuff anyways, but then it actually helped me change my packages and pricing too. So paying attention to with your hours included, your staff hours included, what is the most profitable part of your business, and then taking a look at if you have lost leaders or dead weight or anything else that you should actually drop or really rework your pricing, because sometimes we just don’t realize that we’re offering services that truly aren’t profitable or aren’t as profitable as they should be. And we’re focusing more on them. So that is one thing for sure. And then the next is paying attention to my time. And what I mean by that in the same vein is I want another coach that I worked with maybe during a time awareness log, and we tell ourselves, we’re so busy, but what we don’t realize is that we associate more time with things that we hate doing and less time with things that we liked doing. But the reality is we’re actually not spending that time equally to how we’re thinking about it. And so when I went through that time awareness log, it occurred to me that I had way more time in my day. And there were a lot of bottlenecks that I could streamline, delegate and really just fix in terms of cleaning up a little bit in my processes and realizing that there’s a lot of time that I could be using more profitably. And it helped me realize how many hours I had to delegate to an employee II as well. So it helped with that process and learning what I could afford to let go and having that confidence. Sometimes it’s scary to hire a new person, and realizing if I did that it would actually make me more money to spend the money on on an employee. So those two things were super important in terms of just looking at strategic growth, but then increasing profitability.

Heather Pearce Campbell  47:29

Hmm, I love those so much. Those are both great tips. For those that are listening. Where do you like if they’re thinking, oh my gosh, I need to go connect with Nicholle learn more about her work and her business? Where do you like for people to connect with you online?

Nicholle Overkamp  47:44

Pa our Instagram is a great powerhouse of money coaching. That is through our bio in the link there we have access to everything that we have going on, you can book a discovery call and check out our courses. So I would love for anybody to engage with us on Instagram.

Heather Pearce Campbell  48:01

Fine, okay, and we will also share your website. Anything else? I think you mentioned a coupon code for the right for listeners if they wanted to get access to a course with a discount. So we will share that as well. And if you are listening, you can check out Nicholle’s links, get access to her Instagram or her website, including her courses, legalwebsitewarrior.com/podcast. Nicholle, it’s been such a joy to connect with you today and hear a bit about your story and your experience including your entrepreneurial side of your business. I really appreciate your time. Any final takeaways or to dues and specifically on the money side, right? What should listeners be doing? In addition to the two tips, tips you just left in regarding to I mean, in regards to business building anything on the personal money side that you would like people to you know, go take a look at or take one step towards today.

Nicholle Overkamp  49:06

Yeah, I think if there’s one thing that is going to be super valuable is to promise yourself that you’re going to take action. And so write down your top three priorities and focus on just the first one, just the first one and promise yourself that you’re going to put a plan in place to take action whether it is making a phone call hiring a pro looking at your your bank statements are understanding what you own and what you owe whatever it is whatever’s at the top of that list, just promise yourself you’ll take action on it.

Heather Pearce Campbell  49:37

I love that. Thank you, Nicholle. So appreciate you. Loved the advice that you gave today and I hope we get to connect again soon.

Nicholle Overkamp  49:45

Absolutely. My pleasure.

GGGB Outro  49:49

Thank you for joining us today on the Guts, Grit and Great Business™ podcast. We hope that we’ve added a little fuel to your tank, some coffee to your cup and pep in your step to keep you moving forward in your own great adventures. For key takeaways, links to any resources mentioned in today’s show and more, see the show notes which can be found at www.legalwebsitewarrior.com/podcast. Be sure to subscribe to the podcast and if you enjoyed today’s conversation, please give us some stars and a review on Apple podcasts, Spotify or wherever you get your podcast so others will find us too. Keep up the great work you are doing in the world and we’ll see you next week.