With Nikki Nash, the podcast host, Hay House author, and creator of Market Your Genius, a training and development brand on a mission to equip entrepreneurs with the tools and resources they need to share and profit from their message. 

Known for empowering people to quit making excuses and start going after their dreams, Nikki uses her extensive business and personal development background to help women create a business and a life they’re MADLY in love with.

Prior to entrepreneurship, Nikki served as Head of Marketing at tech startup Rest Devices, Senior Marketing Manager at Intel Corporation where she won the Marketing Excellence Award, Brand Management MBA Intern at The Coca-Cola Company, and Media Planner and Buyer at advertising agency Publicist Worldwide on the Kraft Foods Account. She has also worked for brands such as InStyle, Travel + Leisure, and Louis Vuitton Moet Hennessy.

In this episode, Nikki shares how marketing is related to dating, how you, as entrepreneur, can position yourself as the go-to expert in the industry, and how you can use stories to sell. She also talks about how important experiments are in a business.

Join our exciting conversation where you will walk away with some strategies and insights on content marketing and how it can help you build your brand, your audience, and your business. You will also know the obstacles most people face when building a personal brand business to help you avoid them.

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Biggest takeaways (or quotes) you don’t want to miss:

• Understand the customer acquisition cost and lifetime value.
• What is the problem with messaging, mindset and boundaries?
• How to get your messaging right.
• What are some of the biggest issues you see people struggling with when it comes to retention?

“Wherever you are right now is perfect, you’re going to get lessons and magic from it… Everybody has a different path to their ultimate destination.”

-Nikki Nash

Check out these highlights:

• 03:18 Nikki shares how her entrepreneurship journey started.
• 07:33 Nikki’s favorite thing about expert-based businesses.
• 09:58 What are some of the unique obstacles these types of businesses face?
• 15:33 She stands for a couple of things such as…
• 33:08 Having a consistent flow of leads is important for the business. But where do people go wrong?
• 44:21 Why is it important to get your messaging right?

How to get in touch with Nikki:

On social media:

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/nikkinashofficial

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/nikkinashofficial/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nikkinash/

Twitter: https://twitter.com/nikkinashco

Special offer for listeners: Get a free Market Your Genius Audiobook here.

Imperfect Show Notes

We are happy to offer these imperfect show notes to make this podcast more accessible to those who are hearing impaired or those who prefer reading over listening. While we would love to offer more polished show notes, we are currently offering an automated transcription (which likely includes errors, but hopefully will still deliver great value), below.

GGGB Intro  00:00

Here’s what you get on today’s episode of Guts, Grit and Great Business®…

Nikki Nash  00:05

So I did the math, I’m like, alright, for me to have $30 billion of net worth, what the heck do I need to acquire from a real estate perspective from a general like investment portfolio perspective? Which means how much do I need to make in my business? And I was like, Yo, Nik, you can’t be willy nilly saying, alright? I’ll just try your $20,000 program and see what happens. Like no, I have a budget, and I have a list of criteria. And I’m going to make decisions all through the lens of is this going to help me or serve my ultimate goal? When if it doesn’t serve my ultimate goal, then it’s a heck no. If I’m kind of on the fence, it’s in the consideration list. And if it’s a heck yeah, right, yeah, like, so. That’s probably the biggest thing is that having that, that clear vision, but then also doing the math to understand what needs to happen for to be a possibility. I was like, Okay.

GGGB Intro  01:03

The adventure of entrepreneurship and building a life and business you love, preferably at the same time is not for the faint of heart. That’s why Heather Pearce Campbell is bringing you a dose of guts, grit and great business stories that will inspire and motivate you to create what you want in your business and life. Welcome to the Guts, Grit and Great Business® podcast where endurance is required. Now, here’s your host, The Legal Website Warrior®, Heather Pearce Campbell.

Heather Pearce Campbell  01:34

Alrighty, welcome. I am Heather Pearce Campbell, The Legal Website Warrior®. I’m an attorney and legal coach based here in Seattle, Washington, serving online information entrepreneurs throughout the US and the world. I am so excited to welcome you to another episode of Guts, Grit and Great Business®. Today, we are connecting with Nikki Nash. Welcome, Nikki.

Nikki Nash  02:00

Thank you so much for having me. So excited to be here with you.

Heather Pearce Campbell  02:04

Oh, I’m super excited about this conversation. Even in just the short chat we’ve had before going live, I think we’re going to be hitting on some very relevant topics for people. So for those of you that don’t know Nikki, Nikki Nash is a podcast host, Hay House author, and creator of Market Your Genius, a training and development brand on a mission to equip entrepreneurs with the tools and resources they need to share and profit from their message. So today, Nikki’s on the other coast, we were just chatting, she’s in New Jersey, I’m in Seattle. Nikki used to live in Portland. So we share a little, you know, mini Pacific Northwest connection. Of course, we had to chat about the weather for a second as it begins to rain here in Seattle. Nikki’s very glad I’m sure to be back on the other coast. Where that actually comes to an end at some point. Nikki, I would love to hear about your journey into entrepreneurship. Right? It looks a little different for everyone. But there are often some common theme. Do you want to share with us what like, where and how you got started?

Nikki Nash  03:15

Yeah. So you know, like a lot of folks, I’ve had many baby businesses or ideas throughout my life starting with, like, you know, selling things as a kid and all of that. But I would say that, probably around 2016 is when I actually was really early on that. So maybe like 2014 is when I was like, Oh, let me actually try to monetize my area of expertise. And so what essentially happened at the time is about a year earlier, I had found out that my aunt was diagnosed with ovarian cancer. I was actually in Seattle when I found out.

Heather Pearce Campbell  03:56

Oh, well, that’s an unfortunate connection to Seattle, boo.

Nikki Nash  04:02

I mean, it was a great trip. But my mom had called me and I could tell something was off. And that’s how my maternal grandmother had passed away. And so we did genetic testing, my aunt tested positive for the gene, the bracket to Gene, my mom tested positive, then ultimately my sister and I had to get positive, or get positive, get tested. And long story short, the day that I was getting tested was the day that Angelina Jolie wrote her article called My Medical Choice about her family having the braca one gene mutation, which puts her at high risk for breast cancer and then ultimately ovarian cancer. And it was just one of those moments where I realized I wasn’t alone. And I realized the power of sharing one story. And I was working on the West Coast, loved my job loved my team, but was like I don’t know If this is what I want to do for the rest of my life, right, like I am, I’ve always loved writing, I always love storytelling. I worked with a lot of influencers in my job, like YouTubers, things like that this is back in like 2011 is when I kind of started working with influencers, and I was just like, You know what, maybe I want to do my own thing one day. And after my app was sick, I decided I wanted to move back East. And so fear got in the way. So anybody who’s like, had the idea to start a business and then didn’t really fully go all in, I was right there with you. So like, I quit my full time, like six figure paying job to start this business, and then didn’t go all in, in the business, right. So I took a job as Head of Marketing at a tech startup. And then I had a side hustle, where we teach entrepreneurs, marketing, and how to get leads, and how to, you know, get more dream clients and things along those lines. And ultimately, I got to a point where it’s like, you know, I don’t want to do this for someone else. And so I left my head of marketing role, and started my own business. And so it’s evolved a bit over time, slightly, you know, like you tweak a little things, you start working with folks, you realize who you really like working with, and then you shift your focus or messaging a little bit. But from the beginning till today, at the end of the day, I’m like the go-to person for folks with service based businesses, particularly expert printers, helping them package their expertise and two services, and then getting a consistent flow of dream clients. And yeah, and I was sharing with with you, Heather, right before we hit record that fairly recently, I’ve merged my genius with my business besties genius. And we’re focused on helping folks that have group programs basically double to triple, if not more, their revenue from that group program, through like my sales and marketing expertise, and her delivery and curriculum and client retention expertise. So that’s what I’m up to, and kind of how I got started and how it’s going today.

Heather Pearce Campbell  07:11

Yeah, that’s amazing. I love it. Well, it’s I’m always curious, like, at what point in the past, somebody recognizes, like, oh, yeah, I need to be doing this for myself, and in my own way, versus for somebody else, or as part of somebody else’s big team, right? What do you love about the expert based businesses?

Nikki Nash  07:33

So I think my favorite thing about expert based businesses is really being able to leverage everything about you, right? Like your every experience that you’ve had, even if it’s not directly tied to what you’re teaching or doing is connected, right? Like I fairly recently got into real estate investing. And before I dove in, I was reading all of these books, and I saw oh my gosh, like, they’re teaching, like, this is exactly how I teach marketing, but they’re talking about something different, right? And it’s just really fun to realize that when you are an expert in something, and you’re able to share that with the world, and then you continuously learn from other experts, you can see similarities and you can see the transfer ability. I was an English major, and I’m clear on if I’m sure that’s, that’s a word. But it sounded funny as I was saying it, I’m like it, what, but the ability to transfer your skills into different markets and industries. And so I think it’s nice to be rewarded and monetize your stories, your expertise, your learnings and knowledge and to kind of really, truly see that everything you’ve been through and everything you’ve learned has the ability to expand your your life and your your well being in different ways.

Heather Pearce Campbell  08:59

Well, and you’re working your business, right, I think more and more people are realizing even as I look at like the legal world, like there is a way to holistically approach your practice that not only brings your skills, your background, your various strengths into your work, but looks at you know, your client work in a much different way. And I think, at least from what I can tell, like the old school expert based businesses looked a very certain way. And for the most part, I think that landscape is really changing. There’s a there’s a lot of ways that experts can show up and do the work that they’re doing and be creative and how they approach and execute their work. What for many of these folks, right we were chatting briefly about the the reality that a lot of these people are building personal brands, like you know, their business does become a personal brand. What are some of the unique obstacles that these types of businesses face?

Nikki Nash  09:58

I would say the biggest one is having your business and your brand. So tied to your personal brand that it’s hard to remove yourself from it. Right? Like one of the things that I really realized over the course of building this business, is that I want to build something that has legacy, something that can live beyond me. And so it’s had me contemplate, like, Okay, I’m building my personal brand. And in a certain extent, my personal brand is a business. But how do I build a business that still has that ability to run when I’m long and gone? And that’s not what everybody wants? Right? Like, some people want to build a, it’s just my brand business. And I’m gonna work it until I’m done working it, and then I’m gonna retire, right? Like, and that’s okay. And some people want to exit from this business and build equity in it and like, leave it and other folks want to, like, build something that just like lives on for like, decades after they’re gone. And I think one of the biggest challenges is one, figuring out what you want, and to then figuring out how to leverage your personal brand to accomplish that.

Heather Pearce Campbell  11:14

Hmm, I love the way you said that because my next question was going to be, can people do both? Right? Can they build a business that has leverage, but also utilize a personal brand along the way? Are these things mutually exclusive? In your opinion?

Nikki Nash  11:30

No, I don’t think it’s mutually exclusive. I think that there has to be a lot of intention around it. Right? So I am actually, when my business started, it was like, I’m Nikki Nash, this is like almost the Nikki Nash show. Like, here’s my genius. I’m sharing it with you.

Heather Pearce Campbell  11:47

It’s a great show by the way, folks, yeah. 

Nikki Nash  11:49

Thank you. And I was like, tada, right. And then as I was building my business and really thought about it, I’m like, You know what, that’s not actually what I want. So how do I sit down and go, Okay, what do I stand for? What are the things that I’m interested in? What is it that I want to bring to the world and share with the world? And how do I continue to build up my personal brand and presence, but I’m building up my personal brand, as CEO of this company, or of this brand, or of this entity that can live on without me? Right? And so there are still things that are like coming for me, right? Like I wrote a book, I have a podcast, I plan on reading, more books, I love, you know, creating content. So all of that comes from me, but I do it from the standpoint of, okay, like, here’s what I stand for, what my interests are, what you’re learning from me, but guess what, it’s, there’s a methodology behind the madness, right? There’s a framework, and this framework is teachable, this framework can be like people can be certified in this framework. And even though it came from me, initially, it is not me alone, right. And so if you don’t get me, it doesn’t mean that like, you will not have an amazing experience or that you will not be able to succeed. And I think that’s the biggest thing for, from a marketing perspective, from a messaging perspective. And from a delivery perspective, that’s important. Because if you’re building a personal brand, and you know that ultimately, you want to remove yourself out of the implementation or delivery, you have to communicate from the beginning, that it’s your methodology. That’s the magic, right? And then you have to look at, okay, what are the core values? And the reasons that people are into me? And how do I make sure as I hire team and I build people, that those values, Yvonne, are shared and Lavon? Right, you know, and so I think those are some of the the important things because, like, there are other bubbly people out there. There are other witty people out there, they’re sarcastic people out there, right. And I happen to be a combination of all of those things. And, but the way in which I speak and the way in which I present myself, and you know, people are gonna love you or hate you, and it’s like, great, but independent of loving me or hating me, here’s a methodology and do you like the methodology? Do you like what I’m teaching? Do you live this? And if you can love this, then it doesn’t matter. If it’s coming from directly me that’s teaching it to you, right?

Heather Pearce Campbell  14:16

I like that so much. Yeah, I was just actually having this conversation with somebody the other day, who has built up, I mean, he’s got, like a podcast that I think has, I can’t remember honestly, if it’s like 18 million, or like 180 million downloads, it’s insane. It’s like worldwide, it’s, he’s done it for years and years, like literally 1000s of episodes. And he’s at a stage where he is actually making this exact transition of like, how I built up this massive personal brand. How do I now transition into really the CEO status of like, where’s my company headed next, right, and it’s such an important conversation and i i Love that you are thinking about this now and talking about it now, because I do think that the earlier, we start wrapping our minds around this and thinking about it in the context of how does this apply to my business, we’re just going to build better businesses, right, we’re going to build them more thoughtfully and more intentionally. And so I really love that piece of your message. I want to get into the methodology. But first, I want to go to the question, what do you stand for? 

Nikki Nash  15:28

You? Okay, this is a great question. And I stand for a couple of things. One thing that I stand for, and I think I am going to give you a combination of things I stand for, and some of my beliefs and things that I like. So a big reason as to why I’m attached to building my business and brand and things like that is I believe, in pretty much like obliterating the gender and racial gap that exists within entrepreneurs. And it exists outside of entrepreneurship, but I am in the entrepreneurship land. And so I want that gone, right? Like I don’t want statistically because I’m a black female, that I My, how much money I’m gonna make in my business says mystically, right, is significantly smaller than almost every other race and gender combination out there. Like, you know what I mean? So, and seeing what women tend to make less than men, minorities tend to be make less than than minorities. It’s just like, general statistics that I’m just like everybody has, knowledge was magic. And if you can understand how to play the game of entrepreneurship, and brand building and wealth generating, then you can win, right? And not everybody knows the rules of the game. So I’m really I’m a stand for like, that level of transparency, that level of like, everybody rises together, and that level of like, let’s level the playing field. So that’s a big piece for me. The other big piece of something that I stand for is I really believe in creating generational wealth. And it’s something that once I got clear on that was something that was important to me, and was able to put words behind it, it changed the way that I think about business. And the way I think about my business, right? I went from playing the game of like, I want to build the biggest brand, I want to have the biggest revenue, and I’m like, screw that, like, Yeah, that’s cool. That’s great. I’m not opposed to it. But I want to make my business as profitable as possible. And I want to be able to leverage that profit to do other things, right, like create wealth through real estate, create wealth through real estate investments that are typically only available to like ultra high or high net worth and to individuals, right. And so those things are important to me. And I don’t only want to do them, and but I want to figure out the game, and then share the game with other people. Right? So I’m like, when I think about, oh, well, like what’s next, I already know what I’m learning now. I want to be teaching and like 10 or 15 years from now, if not sooner to folks, right. And so it’s like, but I need the brand and businesses I’m building now to be able to run without me so that I can then build the other thing so that ultimately that can run without me. So it’s like I have I have no shortage of business ideas.

Heather Pearce Campbell  18:23

Things to do between now and then. Yeah, just a little tiny shortlist for me. Sure. 

Heather Pearce Campbell  18:29

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Heather Pearce Campbell  20:19

Yeah, no, and I, you know, this is so relevant. And this conversation becomes I think, just increasingly relevant, right? You look at what COVID has done to these gaps. I was reading an article just the other day here in Seattle about the the gap between, you know, racial equity when it comes to investing in real estate here in Seattle. And that gap has widened what you know, the gap has gotten even bigger throughout COVID, the numbers of black people that have been able to buy and hold real estate, like is even and it’s, you know, it’s so it’s so hard. I mean, from so many different perspectives, I think people have really been in the struggle, moms have been in the struggle, right? I mean, COVID, I’m one of them, right? And I can talk all day to like the challenges of trying to keep a business alive and trying to keep two small children in school, you know, before we went live, I told you like my daughter’s home again today. And you think we move beyond that point of COVID? When kids are just home chronically? And it’s like, no, we still feel like we are in it. Because you can’t even take a kid with sniffles right now into public schools, you know, so. But the weight and I belong to circles of women who are in the entrepreneurship world, the weight consistently falls on women’s shoulders repeatedly to like, hold the seams together, right? And all of the different ways. And so it’s, you know, these issues, unfortunately, have not like we’ve not made strides the last few years, they’ve actually significantly worsened. And so this conversation is so important from a future thinking perspective. And I love that you’re already asking yourself, How can I do this so that I can teach others the rules of the game? Right? And I’d love to know, when you shifted from business building to profitability? What changed within your own business? Like, I’d love to hear some of the shifts that you made, like boots on the ground, right?

Heather Pearce Campbell  22:18

Right? Well, ding, ding, ding, you said it. I said the hard part. I think for a lot of people, right? They’re doing the math, right, actually sitting down and looking at the numbers. I think that it’s hard for a lot of people. And I’ve had this conversation with other folks who love to talk about money and why that is like we are kind of negatively influenced by numbers from a young age, right? Whether it’s math class, stepping on the scale, whatever it is, so many of us have negative connotations with numbers. And yet, right? How many people right now are waking up to the fact that if they’re going to move into retirement, their quality of life is going to drastically change? Yeah, right. It’s a brutal wake up.

Nikki Nash  22:18

Yeah. So a number of things changed. I think I am naturally a blissfully optimistic person. Right. So I’m the person that’s like, you know, what, I have a good feeling about this investment. Like, I have a good feeling about this program, a good feeling about this coach, I’m gonna get something out of it. Let me just like, I’ll do it. And you know, we’ll just see what happens, right. And as I did that, like, and I wrote about it in my book, like, I made great revenue my first year. And I was like, investing in I was in a group program, I had a private coach, I that was probably to, like, teaching things that I didn’t need to be learning or being at write then I was like, traveling all over the place. I was like, I was in France, and I was in Norway, and I was in, you know, Ireland and likes or Scotland, living your best life, living my best life, which was great. But at the end of living my best life, I was like, at the end of the year, I was burnt out and had like, no money in my bank account. And I was like, tired of constantly having to go, well, I need to get more like, get more clients and make more money so that I can like, fund my next year of galavanting, or whatever. And when I sat down, and I was like, Alright, I am right now playing a short term game. I was I was playing, uh, how can I make the most money right now, so I can do this thing. And hopefully it’ll like, keep the momentum going. And I’ll just be like a seven figure business owner. Hurray. And I was thinking, like, alright, this isn’t really working for me, like, I’m not enjoying this. And as I started thinking about, like, oh, I want to create wealth and create, you know, a legacy. That can’t happen overnight. That’s a long term goal, right? I mean, like, I’m sure it could, I mean, like, I could win a bajillion dollars, megamillions mega mill, or, like, I’d probably need billions of dollars for this to really happen overnight because of taxes and crap, but like, you know, like, it’s not like I’m winning the lottery or having some sort of windfall, or there’s like right distant relative that I didn’t know about and decided to only let me inherit, and they were wealthy, like, that stuff’s not happening. So this has to be a long term game. And if it’s a long term game, then okay, I need to actually under do the math. And so I did the math in terms of how much I wanted to make. I have this goal. I believe in sharing your goals with people, whether you hit it or not just because you’re like I’m putting it out in the universe, but I want to be an ultra high net worth individual which means I need to have your network needs to be $30 Million and above, right, so that means like your you have your assets minus your liabilities is 30 million dollars plus, right? And 30 million for folks is like the low end of the ultra high net worth, right? But I was like I want and it’s just like because I want to, it’s like fun for me to go after this, I may hit it, I may not hit it. But I want to be able to create, like, trust for my family. I mean, I want my kids and their kids and their kids to work hard play like but be able to learn, do whatever the heck they want, make money, but then know that like they’re adding to this pot of money that they could spend to also donate give away. Yeah, be in the rooms where decisions are being made. And people pay attention to you, right? Like those. That’s some of the the possibilities that I see with this. So I did the math, and I’m like, alright, for me to have $30 billion of net worth, what the heck do I need to acquire from a real estate perspective from a general like investment portfolio perspective? Which means how much do I need to make in my business? And I was like, Yo, Nik, you can’t be willy nilly saying, Alright, I’ll just try your $20,000 program and see what happens. Like, no, I have a budget, and I have a list of criteria. And I’m going to make decisions all through the lens of is this going to help me or serve my ultimate goal? When if it doesn’t serve my ultimate goal, then it’s a hack. Now, if I’m kind of on the fence, it’s in the alright, it’s in the consideration list. And it’d be later yeah, yeah. Right. Yeah, like, so that’s probably the biggest thing is that having that, that clear vision, but then also doing the math to understand what needs to happen for it to be a possibility?

Nikki Nash  27:16

It is. And I like math. And I’m like, keep it simple. I just did like, very conservative conservatively. I’m like, Alright, if I want to have this much money, and let’s pretend I’m doing it all through real estate, and I’m not, but let’s pretend I was, this is how I did the math. I’m like, let’s assume the average value of a piece of property that I’m going to have is this amount. Let’s just divide the numbers, how many properties do I need to have? Okay, how many properties would I need to acquire a year in order to do this in a specific timeframe? Okay, how much money would I need, either for a down payment, or there are up there are ways to buy homes with 0% down, that’s a whole nother story. But I was like, let’s just say like, even with for like backup money for Cushing for reinvesting, or remodeling or things like that, I did all that math. And then I was like, alright, well, now I know what I need to do this year. And if it’s not in alignment with that, heck now like, I’m not, I’m not doing it.

Heather Pearce Campbell  28:13

Well. And I love that, that reframe of looking at every decision that you make, whether it’s in service to that that larger end goal, right. And I think a lot of people where they get strung up is figuring out, is this the right next step? Maybe it is a step somewhere on their path. But is it the right, next one? Right? Can you speak to that? Because I think a lot of people in this path of building things generally do some stuff out of order? Yeah, absolutely.

Nikki Nash  28:41

And I think you know, there, you have to honor the stage that you’re in, right? Like, I want to be a ultra high net worth individual, I am not doing the exact things that somebody at that stage is doing right now. Because I’m like, trying to get there, right? Like before you can be wealthy, you have to make money, you have to, like have wealth or riches. Right? And before you can do that, you have to figure out how the heck to make money or you need to have some money, right. So like, my job right now, in business is like, my goal is to figure out how I can make my businesses as profitable as possible, right? And to build them in such a way that I could exit from them and still make money from them. Right? And a couple of ways the same way I look at real estate, which is why I’m like, oh, it’s all connected, right? Like how do I have a cash flow coming to me from the opportunity and the investment, as well as have it appreciate and wealth so that when I exit it, there’s like a it’s worth something right? It’s worth a lot. Same way as I look at real estate properties is the way that I look at businesses and vice versa, right?

Heather Pearce Campbell  29:52

Oh, well, it’s so important and people can often relate to this like in the concept of relationships right when you start a real relationship, you’re often not looking at, like, where does this end? But it’s exactly what you should be doing with every business. Every potential business partnership, every investment in real estate, right? What am I doing? And where does this end? What is the exit strategy? And people get that? And yet I still think it’s a hard thing for a lot of people to do at the very beginning.

Nikki Nash  30:24

Absolutely. And to your point, understand, Okay, where am I on this journey? Right? Like, okay, we’re on our first date. I don’t need to be worried about my wedding dress right now. We’re literally out to dinner. I’m just trying to figure out right now, if I even like this person, right? Like, do we have similar values? Do I even like speaking to you? So like, honor where you are? Right? Like, if you are just starting your business, figure out what sells, right? If you’ve been in business a while, figure out how to, you know, sell more of what you’re selling without it, requiring extra effort, right? Like, how can you be more efficient and effective, then it’s like, Alright, maybe you get to a point where you’re like, Alright, how do I systemize things, so that I can ultimately outsource this or automate it or something along those lines. And this goes across like marketing, sales, delivery, like all of those areas. And then it’s like, okay, great. I’m gonna bring on a person, how do I bring on a person and still make sure that, you know, now that I have an increase in expenses, I’m still making sure that I’m profitable, right, like what needs to happen? And so I think it’s just figuring out where you are. And honoring that and being okay with that. And I think the biggest challenge that I see people face, and they don’t even realize it, but I speak to so many coaches and consultants, and I’m like, You are business owners. And I’m like, you are talking to me about stuff that is like 10 steps down the line. I was like, Don’t worry about it, don’t talk about it. I get it. I like to know, like, big picture where I’m going and understand everything. But then I also have to go back and be like, okay, but I’m here, right? Like, your GPS doesn’t go in 25 minutes. Right? Like make this turn? No, it’s like you have a turn coming up in a few miles, like less than a mile. Right? So that’s the way that you want to think about your next step is like what’s coming up next? What do I need to focus on right now? I know ultimately, what my destination is. But I don’t need to be worried about the step that’s 25 minutes or miles away, right?

Heather Pearce Campbell  32:27

Yeah, no, it’s so true that keeping your perspective in the right, like, looking at it through the right lens is just so important. Speaking to the folks that have established a business, right, they’ve got proof of concept, they’re midstream, Midway, building this business, let’s shift gears a little bit to speaking about some of the nuts and bolts of what you do. Right, who you work with what you’re helping them focus on. Right. I know, before we went live, we were talking a little bit about the challenges of building an audience and then audience retention and client retention once you’ve built that, right? So I think those are really important things for a lot of people that are midstream. Midway through that path.

Nikki Nash  33:08

Absolutely. And I think you know, just starting with audience, one of the biggest things that I’ve a lot of people believe that they need is more leads. Now, yes, having a consistent flow of leads is important for your business. But where I see a lot of people go wrong, is that like, and I had a call with a client yesterday. And we were talking through she’s doing a conversion event to fill a program. And she was like, Alright, this is how many people I got with my last conversion event. This is how many people came. This is how many people purchase. So if I want this many more sales, I need to multiply how many people registered by this amount? And I’m like, that’s one of a couple of options. Right? I’m like you could get more leads. You could have more of your leads show up to the event, right? Like are more signups right, you can get more people who sign up, show up higher conversion. Yeah, right. You can also have more of the people that show up purchase, right? And I’m a big believer of starting with maximizing and increasing your conversion percentage before you start filling your funnel with more people. And the reason for this is that if you keep filling it with more people, it’s like it’s like taking a bucket that has holes in it. And you’re just like I need more water. So I’m just going to keep flooding in more and more water and it’s like plug up some of the damn holes. Like you would have more water.

Heather Pearce Campbell  34:39

Right. Well, it relays I think so well into the fact that so many people end up focusing on like, where did their new leads come from? They stopped taking care of the ones that they have and they stopped taking care of the people that are already in their system that have other needs have other supports that they would willingly show up for right, and they like there’s such a disconnect. I remember reading some statistic one time about, like, you know, 97% percent of businesses don’t have a consistent follow up built in to take care of the people they’ve already got.

Nikki Nash  35:17

Yeah. And if people looked at it this way, because a lot of folks, certain levels are doing things organically. And so they may not be paying attention to the time investment that it took them to acquire folks organically. But if you put money behind that time, and if you are running ads, or doing paid promotions, or things like that, if you look at the dollar sign, one of the things that is important for businesses, and again, if you’re not here yet, don’t worry about calculating these numbers. But just understand what I’m saying conceptually, is that there is a value to acquiring customers, right? It’s called your cost of acquisition your customer acquisition cost, CAC for short, right? CAC, but it’s like there’s a cost to acquiring customers. And then there’s also something called lifetime value, which is how long a customer stays with you. And if you can increase the amount of time that a customer stays with you, it will ultimately reduce or like, relatively, like, you’ll spend less money needing to acquire new customers, the more the customers you already have spend with you.

Heather Pearce Campbell  36:21

Right. So more to the people you already have. Right? 

Nikki Nash  36:25

Exactly. Because it takes so much money, time and effort to get someone to buy from you that first time. And that dramatically reduces each time that same person will buy from you, especially if they’ve had a good x positive experience. So it’s like, okay, I have folks, how do I keep these folks? How do I keep these folks happy? How do I build a relationship with these folks? And often, that’s where I have folks start, like, they’re always like, I need more leads, I want more leads. And I’m like, let’s pretend that you had access. And it’s not even a pretending it’s true. It’s like you have access to more than enough people to fill your program. Right. All right, let’s start there. Let’s start there, let’s perfect and master the follow up process. Because once you have that down, and you understand how much follow up, it takes what you need to say to like, what your messaging is why people are buying from you again, and again. And again, then you can leverage that and your marketing, and you can make your marketing more effective and efficient, and you have clarity around the right leads for you. And then you’re attracting those right leads better and more effectively. And then bam, you’re like, I’m making way more money doing less, because I’ve perfected and tweaked everything before perfection is a myth. But you know, like.

Heather Pearce Campbell  37:39

You know, you play the role models? Yes. Yeah. Look, we’re where do you see your clients in these types of businesses falling down the most? When it comes to retention? What is it that you see, like immediately that many of them are doing wrong?

Nikki Nash  37:54

I think the first thing is not having a plan for retention, right? Like, I think so often people think, okay, when their packages over, whether they’re in a group program, or one-on-one, when it’s coming to an end, that’s when I will start worrying about retention. And most people decide whether or not they’re going to buy from you again, within the first like, 30, 60, 90 days of working with you, right? So if you have a year long program, it’s not month 10 or 11, that you should be worrying about retention, it’s month, one, two, and three, that you need to be worrying about retention. And if your programs are shorter, like you know, it just kind of like shrinks, like right after someone buys, is when you like you have to pay attention to this the whole time, right. But you really want to make sure that when they’re having a positive experience, too, that the experience that they’re having is congruent with the marketing that you just provided them with. Because the one of the biggest reasons people are like I’m out is because they feel bamboozled. It’s because you did all this marketing of the sales. You were like, I’m amazing. Look at me, the face of my business. Great. And then they join the program and they never see from you again, hear from you again. Like what you’re teaching is not what you promised. And they’re like, pissed off, right? Happens all the time.

Heather Pearce Campbell  39:11

It’s well, it’s such a shame. So it’s so like, you’re speaking my language when I talk to people, there’s a series of buckets that I teach my clients about when it comes to their legal risk as well as their legal solutions. One of them which is the dispute resolution bucket, right? People love this bucket. I also call it the communication strategy bucket. But like think of your business as a series of touch points. The enrollment process is just one of many touch points and people focus on enrollment, right? And that’s partly where I can come in with legal support documents, client service agreements, like terms and conditions for online, you know, sales or whatever, all the things but when I’m looking at a client’s business, we’re going way back to make sure or right, the whole point of decreasing, I call it, you know, minimizing client disputes and decreasing confusion, right is to go back to the beginning of time marketing, right, the touch points with your website, your whatever whatever you’re doing online and making sure you’re properly setting client expectations so that you don’t create a pissed off person down the line where you really screwed it up because you oversold or over committed, right? Having them analyze every step along the way. Are they in the right conversation? Are they saying the same things otherwise? Yeah, you’re many this is often how people end up with legal problems on their hands.

Nikki Nash  40:42

Like I would rather you create like a minimal viable product like under deliver under promise and over deliver. Because like, the best thing you can do is deliver someone an even better experience and what they were expecting.

Heather Pearce Campbell  40:56

Exactly, exactly. It’s huge. It’s huge.

Nikki Nash  41:00

Yeah. So that’s probably the biggest thing when it comes to retention. And there are other like, there are specific things that you can do. But I would say like where you lose people kind of right off the bat is when it’s like, Hey, I am not getting what I signed up for and I no longer am excited because it’s like people have buyer’s remorse. People don’t trust you because they’ve bought your program. I think that’s one of the biggest myths people are like, No, like and trust you and they’ll buy from you. I hate that phrase for so many reasons. Just because I bought your program doesn’t mean I trust you, it just means that I believed enough in the possibility of your program working to pay money for.

Heather Pearce Campbell  41:37

Right, to solve my pain. Yeah, exactly.

Nikki Nash  41:40

But I don’t necessarily trust you until like, you know, three months in a year. And who knows how long it takes people?

Heather Pearce Campbell  41:46

Yeah, well, even if I did trust you for a minute, if you turn around and do this thing, right, that evaporates also instantaneously. Absolutely. Yeah. Oh, that’s such an important piece. I hope people like really took a lot of notes right there. So I, you know, oh, my God, I feel like there’s so much that we could dig into here. I think this retention thing is huge. Talk to us just for a minute or two about what else you see people struggling with, kind of in this phase and ways that that you know, you and now it sounds like you and your business partner come in and support folks.

Nikki Nash  42:23

Yeah, you know, I think the biggest thing that I’ve been hearing a lot lately is I have like the wrong people in my program. That’s painful, wrong people in my program, or it’s like a mix, right? Like I have some of the right people, some of the wrong people. And it’s creating a like, disjointed experience for folks. Right?

Heather Pearce Campbell  42:43

Yes, I end up helping those people kick people out of their programs. Yeah, no, yeah.

Nikki Nash  42:49

It’s such a thing. And I think part of the problem is at its core, it’s really a problem with messaging and boundaries, right? Like, those are probably the two biggest things, your messaging is off, if you’re attracting the wrong people, right? And your boundaries, you’re not necessarily setting the right boundaries. And I’ll speak to folks, and they’ll be like, but what if this person just comes in, even though they’re slightly off note, like, once you say yes to that person, then you’re opening the ability, or the floodgates almost for other people who are slightly off to join. And then next thing, you know, you have a bunch of slightly off people, and only a couple that really feel ideal. And I would say that, like the other piece of that outside of messaging and boundaries is that it’s a mindset thing. You know, like, I will talk to folks, we will come up with clear messaging, we will come up with boundaries, I will leave them and they’ll come back and say, but I don’t have these people in my audience. And I’m like, how the heck do you know you’ve never message to them? Maybe the reason why they’re not buying from you or paying attention is because they do not feel like you’re speaking to them. Yeah, right.

Heather Pearce Campbell  43:49

Right. Going back to all those touch points, right, like tracking the whole map. Where did you start having the conversation? Who are you having it with? Is it the right language for them? Yes.

Nikki Nash  44:00

Yeah. You know, I have business clients friends, who have literally shifted their messaging and had folks that had been following them forever. Suddenly go wow, you’re now I feel like you’re speaking to me and now I’m ready to buy and it’s not like they got new leads, they have the same people those people were just quiet because you weren’t speaking to them. And so that’s probably like one of the if I have heard that a million times I would probably not even be lying because I hear that one all the time. Like I don’t have the right audience I’m not my the people I want aren’t signing up. I have the wrong people. And it’s really it’s like we need to work on your messaging. We need to work on your mindset we need to work on your boundaries. And like those three things will super make a huge difference.

Heather Pearce Campbell  44:44

Really, I know writer downer again, messaging mindset boundaries, and I work a lot on the boundary side because when people screw that up, things go wrong in their business. Now to your point, though, about getting the messaging right, I had a great conversation with a friend name Peter, who’s just a episode published a few episodes ago. But he also lives in the messaging world. And he said, the thing that’s fascinating is people will get hyper focused on like, split testing, blah, blah, blah, you know, why does this landing page do so? Well, and this one does not. And he said, people are focused on the words, even when the message is entirely wrong. Yeah. Right. And I was like, Oh, I wish people understood the truth of that statement. Like, it’s not about the words, you guys it’s about. Did you choose the right message to begin with? 

Nikki Nash  45:34

Yeah. 100% Yeah. And that goes down to like, how well do you truly know your audience? And so often people are like, I know them. I was like, when’s the last time you spoke to someone and your target audience, truthfully, and ask them like, what was going on in their mind? What were they struggling with? Now that like, there’s inflation and things happening with the economy? Like, have your thoughts changed? Have your fears changed? Have things changed? People like it’s not a one and done I come up with my message. I do my market research. That’s like a, you’re doing this all the time? Sort of a thing? Right?

Heather Pearce Campbell  46:08

Absolutely. So good. For folks that are listening, where do you like for people to connect with you online, Nikki?

Nikki Nash  46:17

You, okay? So if you have questions, comments, thoughts, feelings, emotions, hit me up on Instagram. 

Heather Pearce Campbell  46:24

If you don’t have any of those robot and just go away.

Nikki Nash  46:28

Don’t reach out to me if you have none of those things. But if you have any of those things, especially in relation to what we’ve talked about today, you can connect with me on Instagram, I’m @nikkinashofficial. And yeah, that would probably be the first thing and if you are someone who has an existing group program, or just like has the desire to build a group program, and you’re like, how the heck do I fill this with people, you can go to fill your group program.com. And I have a really kick butt series of content on there. That will help you fill your group program. And it’s really just Bill any program, but it’s designed for folks with group.

Heather Pearce Campbell  47:11

Right. No, I love that. You can find those links. Anything else that you want to share? I feel like we need to put a plug in for your podcast as well. But you’ll find all of that at legalwebsitewarrior.com/podcast , go look for Nikki’s episode. Nikki, talk to us for one minute about your podcast.

Nikki Nash  47:29

Yes. So podcast is the same name of my book. It’s called Market your Genius. And I wrote it for the expert printer, who’s like I am trying I am in that phase where I am like trying to make more money and higher profits. And so that’s really what we focus on with the goal of you being able to then leverage that profit for other things. And that’s the Market your Genius podcast. How do you take your knowledge, experiences and expertise and profit from it?

Heather Pearce Campbell  47:59

Yeah, so hop over there. Check out Nikki on her podcast. I think it sounds amazing. Nikki, it’s been so fun to connect with you and hear about your story. And I just love your enthusiasm for what you do I really look forward to being connected. What final thoughts do you have for people today?

Nikki Nash  48:15

I guess the last thing I would say is like wherever you are right now is perfect, right? Like everybody started at zero. Everybody has a different path to their ultimate destination. I have made more mistakes than I can count. I have beat myself over it up over mistakes. I have felt like celebrated wins, right? Like it’s a journey. And just try to remember that wherever you are is perfect. You’re gonna get lessons and magic from it. And just like celebrate the journey, enjoy the journey.

Heather Pearce Campbell  48:46

Mm hmm. So important, especially right now as people are trying to reconnect with like, what enjoying the journey looks like I feel like a lot of people are in that phase. Nikki, so great to have you here. Thank you again for coming and visiting us today.

Nikki Nash  49:01

Oh my goodness. Heather, thank you so much for having me.

GGGB Outro  49:07

Thank you for joining us today on the Guts, Grit and Great Business® podcast. We hope that we’ve added a little fuel to your tank, some coffee to your cup and pep in your step to keep you moving forward in your own great adventures. For key takeaways, links to any resources mentioned in today’s show and more, see the show notes which can be found at www.legalwebsitewarrior.com/podcast. Be sure to subscribe to the podcast and if you enjoyed today’s conversation, please give us some stars and a review on Apple podcasts, Spotify or wherever you get your podcast so others will find us too. Keep up the great work you are doing in the world and we’ll see you next week.