With Sunil Bhaskaran, a globally-recognized speaker, trainer, educator, and author, has empowered entrepreneurs, small business owners, and companies worldwide bringing over 30+ years of expertise in building and implementing successful business plans. Sunil is the founder of The Global Business Mastermind, a highly sought-after training program that helps business owners expand their audiences and reach, and The Global Small Business School, an institution dedicated to democratizing business education and opportunities for entrepreneurs around the world.

Sunil’s influence extends through his Meetup organization, which boasts over 200,000 business owners and professionals across the US, UK, Canada, and Southeast Asia. Sunil’s passion lies in fostering global business communities and generating collaborative, profitable ventures. His approach integrates business, technology, and academic insights, drawing from his background in social sciences, economics, literature, and cognitive neuroscience.

Join our conversation as Sunil shares the importance of truth-telling and creating awareness in business, despite the challenges. He emphasizes focusing on the art and joy in business while leveraging social connections for positive outcomes. Sunil encourages listeners to be brave, create vision statements, and make a significant difference in their communities or families.

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Takeaways & quotes you don’t want to miss from this episode:

• What are the five stages of transformation in Sunil’s model?
• The importance of awareness and truth-telling in personal and professional growth.
• How to find creative ways to build an audience for a vision or business.
• How is business compared to art and science?
• Why is there a need to express joy for work and mission in Marketing?

“Most entrepreneurs are real artists… the more they get involved in the art, the more they tend to deliver and engage with their customers.”

-Sunil Bhaskaran

Check out these highlights:

• 04:12 Sunil shares how he started becoming interested in business.
• 10:39 Where does he start shifting his clients back to joy?
• 31:15 People usually get stuck at…
• 40:22 Sunil talks about his Joyful Calendar program and how it can help you.
• 51:39 Final takeaways to leave the listeners with…

How to get in touch with Sunil on Social Media:

You can also contact Sunil by visiting his website here.

Special gift to the listeners: Get the Joyful Calendar Guide for FREE here.

You can also get a 30-minute meetup chat with Sunil at meetupchat.com.

Imperfect Show Notes

We are happy to offer these imperfect show notes to make this podcast more accessible to those who are hearing impaired or those who prefer reading over listening. While we would love to offer more polished show notes, we are currently offering an automated transcription (which likely includes errors, but hopefully will still deliver great value), below:

GGGB Intro  00:00

Here’s what you get on today’s episode of  Guts, Grit and Great Business®…

Sunil Bhaskaran  00:04

Most entrepreneurs are real artists. I mean, there’s some science involved too. But the more they get involved in the art, the more joyful they tend to get the arts, usually the art in which they deliver, they interact and engage with their customer. And you know, obviously the other parts of that could be artistic as well as how they deliver, how they do their systems and all that, but to be focused on the art and the joy in the art and then leave the science to other things that can take over like an admin or system or a platform.

GGGB Intro  00:36

The adventure of entrepreneurship and building a life and business you love, preferably at the same time is not for the faint of heart. That’s why Heather Pearce Campbell is bringing you a dose of guts, grit and great business stories that will inspire and motivate you to create what you want in your business and life. Welcome to the Guts, Grit and Great Business® podcast where endurance is required. Now, here’s your host, The Legal Website Warrior®, Heather Pearce Campbell.

Heather Pearce Campbell  01:04

Alrighty, welcome. I am Heather Pearce Campbell, The Legal Website Warrior®. I’m an attorney and legal coach based here in Seattle, Washington, serving online information entrepreneurs throughout the US and the world. Welcome to another episode of Guts, Grit and Great Business®. I am super excited to introduce my new friend, Sunil Bhaskaran. Welcome, Sunil.

Sunil Bhaskaran  01:31

Oh, it’s a pleasure to be here, Heather, thank you for inviting me.

Heather Pearce Campbell  01:34

Oh, you’re so welcome. Well, when we first connected I remember thinking, okay, we’ve got to get Sunil on the podcast. And I know it’s taken us a little bit, but I’m so glad that we are finally connecting. For those of you that don’t know Sunil. Sunil is a globally recognized speaker, trainer, educator and author. He brings 30 plus years of building and implementing successful business plans to entrepreneurs, small business owners and companies worldwide. His expertise includes leadership, sales, marketing, and global small business. So he has been speaking since 1991 to audiences large and small. He brings the rare personality type of idealist champion. We’ve got some questions about that. Are you a one on the Enneagram? Do you know what Enneagram is?

Sunil Bhaskaran  02:25

Like? Do you remember what’s the consent? I’ve done like half a million personality tests.

Heather Pearce Campbell  02:32

And I suspect you probably are based on your outline. Anyways, he brings that personality type of idealist champion to the stage meaning he can connect with a wide variety of audiences. From the keynote speaker position to conferences, conventions, panels and brainstorming sessions, Sunil guides business owners through the big picture, he can nimbly think on his feet while showing others how to follow suit. He brings a unique perspective to the stage leaving behind the technical nitty gritty. Sunil encourages those who are ready to break through and move past their plateaus. Sunil is also the author of three books, speaks to an audience of 200,000 people weekly, and has two degrees in both Computer Science and Electrical Engineering. He brings a wealth of knowledge and experience to those whom he speaks. I’m fascinated by the fact that you’re a speaker. And I’m just going to say a Computer Science and Electrical Engineer brain as well, those things. In my mind, I often don’t think of engineers as speakers, right?

Sunil Bhaskaran  03:46

It’d be quite a strange experience for sure.

Heather Pearce Campbell  03:48

Yeah. Oh, my gosh. Well, I love it. I love it when I get strange people on the podcast. So welcome, Sunil.

Sunil Bhaskaran  03:56

Yeah, thank you. Great to be here.

Heather Pearce Campbell  03:59

Right, we’re gonna have a good time. And I am super curious, first of all about your brain, but particularly the part of you that is really interested in business. Where did that start? 

Sunil Bhaskaran  04:11

Oh, interested in business? Well, you know, it started in 1990 when I started working as an engineer, and I decided, you know what, I need another income supplement my income because I just bought a home living in Orange County, and I had just graduated as an electrical engineer and a computer scientist. And so I started doing a coding business. And I started door knocking and all the engineering office in Irvine to get business and I got some business to be fair, but it was hard work.

Heather Pearce Campbell  04:47

You know, it’s hard door knocking is hard work. 

Sunil Bhaskaran  04:50

Yeah, you know, who are you get out of here.

Heather Pearce Campbell  04:53

I don’t need whatever you’re selling.

Sunil Bhaskaran  04:58

I don’t even know why I did it. Looking back on it, but then I met my mentor who took me under his wing after to convince him, but you know, and he taught me how to do business. And he taught me a better way of doing it and getting people in and marketing, and then he taught me how to mentor, he taught me how to coach mostly by throwing me into the deep end. So I learned in school of hard knocks with him, but you know, he was this really cool guy, you know, he was a Zen Buddhist monk, who became a very successful entrepreneur. And so he was brilliant at doing that. And oh, you know, just fascinated, I was just fascinated. But everything that I learned at that time, I was just enthusiastically soaking up everything I could write. And if I had a girlfriend, I think this would have just gone south, but had no girlfriend, I only had a job.

Heather Pearce Campbell  05:50

And it was a blessing. You didn’t have a girlfriend.

Sunil Bhaskaran  05:53

I could have good, thick mustache and a thick frown. And I had no clue. All of its didn’t count very well. And so anyway, I started doing a business now became successful. And he started teaching me more and more. And I started a business together. And we sold it for $3 million, or something in six. And I quit my job and travel the world. And my mother gave me money. A lot of money all of a sudden.

Heather Pearce Campbell  06:28

Yay. Well take more money. And this all started with your first income stream meeting a second income stream?

Sunil Bhaskaran  06:33

Yeah. So it’s a long story, but I don’t wanna get too much into it. Because right, yeah, yeah. 

Heather Pearce Campbell  06:39

Yeah, you learned a lot along the way? Well, you’ve got a big mission. And I know, we talked about this actually the first time that we connected, but do you want to share what your mission is and your work now? 

Sunil Bhaskaran  06:53

Yeah, the mission is to have 100 million joyful and successful entrepreneurs globally by 2050. And there’s certain specific measures to this. And it all started when I read a report, think about Asian Development Bank, that there were a stark number of unhappy and not successful entrepreneurs in the world. And you know, it’s going this is crazy, as a business coach, mentor, something should be done. And it was really for the man in the street and a woman in the street that is low on the totem pole, in terms of getting favorable marketing, deals, financing. I mean, the list goes on and on. And so I’m determined to turn that around. Because we have 100 million joyful and successful entrepreneurs. And I put the little guy on a scooter side of State Street of India was selling foodstuff, you know, as an entrepreneur as well, we get these guys being successful. And they each take on hiring or mentoring 100 other people, we’ve got 10 billion people taken care of, which can make a profound difference in the world. And, you know, I’ve done no, it’s not like, first rally, and I’ve done, I’ve worked in the fields of climate, and I’ve worked in the fields of poverty and made a pretty good impact there, starting from grassroots. So anyway, I took on this vision of 100 million joyful and successful entrepreneurs started a few years ago. And it’s what wakes me up in the morning. It’s what gets me going. It’s context for everything I use, why show up here and cough.

Heather Pearce Campbell  08:29

I love that so much. I feel very similarly called mostly from the standpoint of helping my clients be successful, because legal is such a part of that shot. What my brain really wants to get to is the joyful part.

Sunil Bhaskaran  08:42

Yeah. Right. Joy, you know, it’s…

Heather Pearce Campbell  08:45

It’s been a whole other game, and it’s so I feel like it’s not only so important, but essential for success.

Sunil Bhaskaran  08:54

Yes, yeah. Because most people forget about the internal drive, even myself, and I struggle with this. You know, because I had this big vision, and I play a pretty good role. My role is pretty, what’s the word a pretty centered in it defined? Yeah, pretty grounded, and divide them. It’s a fair balance between a vision orientation and grounding reality, right? And my vision is pretty far out. There’s some people I’m sure can detect that. But then there’s a part of me, that’s the internal part that looks at the vision not being fulfill. And then my internal part becomes secondary, almost right. You put that to the side. And it’s not I’m not alone in this. A lot of people do the same thing. And so they forget to nurture the part of them that they wanted to nurture in the first place by becoming an entrepreneur. Yeah, rawness. Yes. So a lot of irony in that. And when I find irony, I go no, there’s an opportunity here to make a big difference and do something cool and creative with the whole thing. So that was the start, you know of? Well, it’s one of the starts to making a profound difference in the world of entrepreneurialism. 

Heather Pearce Campbell  10:14

Well, I love it. And I know you’ve got loads of experience. I mean, you’re not only as a speaker and a trainer and working with clients directly, but then you’ve got this Global Small Business School, right? There are many ways that you reach your people. But where do you start from the standpoint of shifting your clients back to Joy? Like what is the first place that you start? 

Sunil Bhaskaran  10:39

It usually starts with them looking at what their vision could be, and looking at their vision usually involves looking at what they’re dissatisfied with right now. You know, getting present and aware, first stage in any transformation in five stages. In my model, the first stage is awareness, becoming aware of what so a lot of times the awareness is of the irony in your life, I call it irony. Some people call it inauthenticity, you know, like a disconnect. Yeah, disconnect. Like, you know, on the one hand, you seem to get this impression that you’re very successful. But you’re really like, inside, you’re a mess, right? And I’m sure none of us are like that.

Heather Pearce Campbell  11:21

No, none of us can relate. I was talking with my friend, who I had on the podcast right before you today, we just did another recording. And she was like, how was your day? And I was like, huh, do you want the real answer? Or do you want the fake answer? 

Sunil Bhaskaran  11:36

Yeah. Interesting, isn’t it by itself, right? Yeah, totally.

Heather Pearce Campbell  11:41

But I get it so much, because and I actually felt like posting about it, because I thought, You know what, I’m not alone in this. Like I woke up this morning, I’ve had three nights of no sleep, because I’ve got a sick little girl. And so I each night, I’ve had like, three hours of sleep the last three nights. And I think entrepreneurs can do this to themselves in other ways. But then this morning, I wake up and my kids are like, Mom, we want pancakes for breakfast. I also it’s a Friday and happened to have two kids home from school because you know, it’s a holiday or in service day or something, think the holidays, technically tomorrow. And so I’m like, Okay, I’ve got work to do today, I have two kids home, you know, one of them is sick. I’m like, Okay, we’re making pancakes. It’s a pancake morning. So I get the pancakes made. And I’m almost pouring them into the pan. And I look at the mouth of the milk, which is new, by the way, this is not an old milk. And it’s got black mold on the inside. So clearly, like at some point that milk was broken in shipment or at the store or whatever. And I look at the clock, and I’m like, I’ve got limited time before my first call, like kids, get in the car, we’re going to I tried but I’m like, I’m done trying, we’re gonna go to Starbucks, and we’re gonna get you some breakfast. And so we jump in the car, go to Starbucks, there’s a line because one of the other Starbucks and recently has closed for a remodel line out to the street and like on the street, and I was like, okay, just kidding, we are not, we’re not even doing this. And I turn back around and get and I’m on my way, one of my kids, you guys are fending for yourself this morning. Like I have to get home and get on a call now, you’re gonna have to do your best to make what you can make. And we walk in the house. It smells like somebody’s trying to burn the house down. I had left the cast iron pan on this. Anyways, I was like, What the heck is going on today? Like I can’t do one thing, right? I can’t even get my kids breakfast, I’ve got to my dog, right, my dog wanted out of the house. She thought she was about to die because the smell was so bad. And I have to open all the windows, get the dog taken care of. And then I have time to not even have my coffee, get on a call. And that’s how my day started. And I thought I’m doing something wrong. And how often though, does this parallel? Because I just thought you know, this is the path of entrepreneurship. Some days are just like this.

Sunil Bhaskaran  14:05

Some days are just like this. And you know, it’s kind of like the truth, isn’t it? I mean…

Heather Pearce Campbell  14:11

And it’s so painful because I’m like, I’m regretting every life choice today. I’m doing everything.

Sunil Bhaskaran  14:20

I totally love it. Yeah, this is a sucky day. Right? Yeah. You know, and people like to laugh at this, it’s like this laughter to humor about it. Right? And which kind of tells you like, you know, we spent so much time trying to cover all this up for, you know, trying to look good about it. And people are deprived of the beautiful wisdom in what you just shared. And the stark reality honesty of what it’s like to be a mum. It’s all of that right. And, you know, it’s, it gives you such an opening into who you are. And we don’t do that. 

Heather Pearce Campbell  15:00

Yeah, well, and I think we feel so much pressure as entrepreneurs, first of all, as humans to just get it right. Be our best selves, always be a great parent, you know, serve our clients. But as entrepreneurs, for sure we feel pressure to have it all figured out and to build something successful. And I think so many of us who are entrepreneurs have this internal drive, to especially the folks that I serve, to make a big impact, to write to like, really achieve their dreams through their business. And so there’s this all this pressure, can you speak a little bit to that, because I’m sure you serve the same folks. 

Sunil Bhaskaran  15:39

I mean, you should see my day earlier to deal with irate, well, some irate customer who was watching, despite our politics, maybe, but, you know, it’s watching Brock Obama, he was talking about forbearance, meaning, bringing patients to the game, and bringing understanding of what is other person’s about. Right. And then, you know, they have this thing distinction called taking full responsibility for your own stuff, right. And I made a mistake. I mean, I really screwed up. This client and I battled this last night, I couldn’t even sleep much because I was going, Oh, she’s such a. And I’m the good guy. I’m the Mahatma Ganhi of business, you know, right. And then it occurred to me like, okay, you know, just get in a world. And, but also, like, not do it in a way that compromises my own integrity, and my well being and who I am, and all that, and I just started getting in a world and made that choice consciously. Because, you know, I didn’t have to do this at the expense, my integrity is what I saw. And that made me guess what? Present and joyful. I love that. Yeah. And so, you know, it didn’t mean like, the whole thing was hunky dory, but it changed the whole context of the conversation and the disarmed.

Heather Pearce Campbell  17:11

Oh, totally, I think when you can approach something that is could be perceived by anybody as a difficult scenario difficult, and you just allow it to be what it is. But I really like your take in approaching it and doing it in a way that allowed you to hear her and understand her but not compromise yourself. I think that’s the struggle people have that they don’t always recognize in that way. Is that like, has to be either or, rather than this conversation where it’s both and.

Sunil Bhaskaran  17:43

Yeah, and if you can do that with yourself.

Heather Pearce Campbell  17:47

That’s, yeah…

Sunil Bhaskaran  17:50

It gets more interesting, you see, because that’s when the real awareness starts occurring. It’s like stops becoming about bullshit becomes more like, you know, Okay, God, bullshit. But let’s talk about the bullshit. So, in the words of one of my mentors, it’s like when you start becoming real or authentic about your inauthenticity, when you stop, when you start telling the truth about where you lie, is one thing a lie. But it’s another thing to just say, yeah, you know what, I lied my ass off. And I want to come clean about it. And now the other person goes, Wait a minute, I was gonna make this guy wrong. But there’s nothing to make wrong. 

Heather Pearce Campbell  18:32

Oh my heavens, yes. It’s such a good example of first of all, how disarming that is, I have a son who, you know, we like any parent, we have our challenges. And I just love the heck out of this little guy. And he’s in a phase in which a lot of kids go through where they tell lies. And it’s usually because they think it’s the fastest path to getting an outcome that they want. Not because they’re trying to be a bad kid, right? It’s very, very common. But he’s learned telling lies doesn’t help it get any better. Like he’s in this process of learning. And so I laugh because I came out this morning I slept in because I’ve had three nights of no sleep. And he’s sitting on the couch in his coat. And I’m so confused about like, why he’s watching cartoons and his coat, said, he’s really why are you sitting in your coat? And he looked at me, and he goes, is because my pockets are full of candy. I laughed so hard, and I was like, thank you so much for telling the truth. Yeah, Halloween was just a few days ago, right. And so for any parents that have any of the leftover Halloween candy, he just totally fessed up and I had to laugh because first of all, I’d slept in they didn’t have breakfast. Of course, his pockets were full of candy. But I just loved that he could tell me the truth and recognize that was the best thing to do in the moment. Did he get in trouble? Oh, I was like, no, like, Thank you for telling me, you know, let’s maybe not eat very much candy the rest of the day because I want us to my other kiddo is sick and I want us to be healthy and fight that cold up. But it was so much easier. It was so much easier. 

Sunil Bhaskaran  20:16

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, that’s the beauty of awareness. You bring such a wonderful space of allowing your child to say it’s okay to tell the truth. You know, and imagine like you’re training someone to do that from young, and the lack of stress, they’ll probably experience.

Heather Pearce Campbell  20:37

Well, and I mean, the thing is, you just highlighted the importance of like how much it takes to even practice this as an adult. 

Sunil Bhaskaran  20:45

Yeah, it gets tougher because you forget what it was like, as a kid. And you just told the truth, or, you know, like that, right? I mean, one of my mentors used to tell me, you know, it’s Kim Kim. He came back home one day, and his kid was throwing stones at his beautiful Porsche car. And so he said, Phoenix, why are you doing that? And he just told Nancy, and my mentor said, you know, didn’t want to make him wrong. He said, he told the truth. He said, okay, okay. All right. Got it. And you know, you said right later on, but what a beautiful way to like create awareness for people so that they can tell the truth in themselves. And you know, when you create awareness at that level, and with that amount of truth telling, that’s real awareness, I say. And then you can start seeing the impacts of where you’re not telling the truth about where you lie.

Heather Pearce Campbell  21:39

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Heather Pearce Campbell  23:22

Well, and even in the small ways that this shows up in life, though I’m thinking of the much deeper ways that we tell lies to ourselves about who we are or what we want or unit. I mean, whether we’re really on our path like it’s such a bigger conversation that we have to be able to begin to do this in small ways so that we can get to the really big ways. 

Sunil Bhaskaran  23:46

Yeah, sometimes it’s good to start really small and easy, because the big stuff can be you know, Gloria Steinem used to say, you know, she said, the truth will set you free. I hope I can see all these words but it but it might piss you off. You know, truth might put you off. It’s good to get to the good pizza.

Heather Pearce Campbell  24:04

The wake you up and make you change piss off, right? 

Sunil Bhaskaran  24:08

Yeah, no good. Can you see the impact of it so you can move on? And once you get awareness, then that the next step is to normalize it, which is kind of what I went through and allow this process to get my vision is you start normalizing whatever’s coming up whatever emotions are coming in, that’s just simply as Lenny integrate sitting with it. mean nothing really, but just, yeah, boy, I did that. Let me just sit with that for a while, you know, and your body is amazing. you process it will let it go might take a while if you’re patient. But when you have that then the insights that come in, and most of the insights are not Aha, it’s mostly the dust. ,

Heather Pearce Campbell  24:50

Yeah, like I knew that I should have paid more attention. 

Sunil Bhaskaran  24:53

Yeah, yeah. And then comes the opportunity to create a new new world you know, New future because prior to that you were living in a lie which kept you in the past pretty much. But now you have an option of a blank slate because you told the truth. And most people go now what? And that means you got nothing, you got nothing that you can paint it power you want, how would you want to paint it? And this way people get a little stymied, because they think they can’t imagine a future. But yeah,

Heather Pearce Campbell  25:23

I was gonna say I would, I would imagine that first of all, a lot of entrepreneurs have trouble giving themselves the space to even become aware. Like, they get so busy in the grind and doing doing that. Even just that sitting in awareness. I mean, I can see why that’s hard. But then yes, the possibility of what’s next, as much as I work with people every day that have big visions, and want to do really amazing things through their work, I think really leaning into what possibility looks like can feel like a challenge. 

Sunil Bhaskaran  25:58

Yeah, that’s why you need dialogue with other people. Yes, you’re good friends, even friends, that may seem idiotic to us, because those friends will probably bring up the Zen like empty and meaninglessness, of what you’re trying to take out the drama, in other words, and leave you with a more fresh perspective. And, you know, having dialogue, but also like, you know, I think, I mean, I live in believable, and there’s a beautiful waterfront here in BillyOh, I just go hang out there with no purpose at all, just hang out, stare out into the water, water does something for me, you know, open expansive land. And I see possibility somehow comes back. And you know, stuff like that, that you feel refreshes or energizes, you should uncompromisingly go for. Because if you don’t, then, you know, you’re just cheating yourself have the opportunity to create insights and joy in and a future that you may not have thought of before. 

Heather Pearce Campbell  27:01

So in even that space of possibility, it sounds like, if you’re talking with people or working with people, I heard you recommend you need dialogue with other people to be able to, like, fully explore possibility. But then also, like, time for for purposelessness, like time to allow that possibility to show up. 

Sunil Bhaskaran  27:25

Yeah, I call it letting my dog out, you know, my dog is my prefrontal cortex, which kind of needs to go out sniffed things, you know, just let it free think, not have any particular agenda. And it’s kind of amazing how you will just thought I should go knit, or, you know, I should go hang out with my friend, I haven’t seen him in a while. And then you go do that, and it’s spontaneous. And there’s a certain energy and rush to that that’s indescribable, isn’t it? And you know, then you start realizing, okay, you know, it’s life is not all bad.

Heather Pearce Campbell  28:01

Oh, well, and it’s so important, like just paying attention to those little nudges, but to be able to see them, like you have to be in this place of watching and listening for them, right. And I think, so often we get on autopilot, we do other things that don’t even allow us to pay attention to those nudges.

Sunil Bhaskaran  28:20

So I encourage people to come out of that kind of state and write down a vision statement, that tends to put things in a more well structured future, you could say, but a little bit of flexibility in creativity for it. And usually, I tell people to come up with a list of 20 or 30 words that are phrases that call to you in that moment, when you’re feeling it, and then call it down to maybe 10 or 15. And then come up with a two sentence, mission statement maximum that you can remember and memorize. Because you don’t want it to be another corporate statement, you keep on a wall that you forget about it’s a waste of time. But I tend to keep up come up with one sentence missions, and then start putting systems and accountability into it, you know, it gets very serious. And then I get serious about my joy, you see, because you gotta get serious, not dramatic. You know, my mentors tell me you can get as significant you know, you can get serious about your stuff, but don’t get significant where you add you add drama where the drama doesn’t do anything for you. So that’s the difference in seriousness means, you know, you get focused, and you make choices about whether you’re serious about this mission or not. And then it starts growing on you. And then it starts taking over your being, you know, words Martin Heidegger, those guys studied ontology or came up with ontology. You know, it takes over your being, it now calls you it comes to clearing for you to show up in a different way. It’s like when you come across a forest clearing, and all of a sudden, you breathe more deeply. You know, and it’s a new world, right? I used to be in this wooded forest now, there’s a clearing, oh, my god and the sun shining, it’s a totally different mood or, or approach to life you have. So it’s appearing for something else to occur, then you pay attention to those clearings and you start seeing there’s a community showing up that’s very dedicated to this, can I get this community on my side to support me in this vision, and something that seems almost impossible, starts becoming more and more possible. And then like, in my case, before, you know, you have 200,000 people on hundreds of meetup groups who are dedicated to the same vision. They don’t know about my vision statement, necessarily, but they are dedicated because they joined the group. So, you know, it’s not that hard to do to, to bring up your joy. And that’s just one way. I mean, you know, so many other ways to do this. 

Heather Pearce Campbell  31:05

Yeah. Well, I love that. Where do you find in your work with folks? Where do you find people getting stuck along the way? Do they? And where, you know, how do you help them through it?

Sunil Bhaskaran  31:15

Well, you know, a big thing for a lot of people these days, the call IT guy and the gal on Main Street, is to find affordable ways of getting an audience, it could be for your webinar, or for an in person event. And so that’s one of the things I’ve discovered and become rather pained by because it’s become such an egregious problem for for people. And so there are people that come to me and say, you know, I want to build an audience, I want it to be, I want to be able to at least have to practice presenting my pitch as a business person on my vision. And so, you know, I’ve helped cracked that problem. By using a very affordable way of putting a webinar audience in front of people or event audience in front of people using a combination of meetup.com, Alignable, LinkedIn and Google backbone. Oh, wow. So my parents investment into my education, that’s a double degree to electrical engineering is finally paid off.

Heather Pearce Campbell  32:19

Good job, Mom and Dad. I love it. I love it. So you built your own audience, and then saw that as so essential for other people’s businesses to be able to take off and thrive. And it sounds like you’ve created a way to leverage your skills and audience building for other businesses? 

Sunil Bhaskaran  32:42

Yeah, that’s true. And it’s a joy for me to watch people be disarmed to say it, it only cost this much. And you know, all I have to do is show up at a webinar and my admin, and the platform’s do all the work. Yeah, it can be done. And that puts the onus on you to test your audience and refine your pitch and refine your strategy, which is really the job of the entrepreneur, job to entrepreneur, it’s not to go out and do all this admin kind of work, you know. 

Heather Pearce Campbell  33:08

Do all this extra stuff that bogs people down and keeps them from their joy. Right? 

Sunil Bhaskaran  33:13

That’s right. Yeah. So the joy is really in the present shouldn’t be in the presentation to these people, and aging. So it focuses the entrepreneur on what what’s really joyful presentation, and becoming good at it.

Heather Pearce Campbell  33:31

I love this so much. I wish I very well need to introduce you, my friend who I just had on before you her name is Erin Loman Jeck and she is a speaker trainer. She teaches people how to bring their message to the world. But we were talking about the importance of this for any business, any entrepreneur, any small business owner, because you’re always marketing connecting, like building your business in some way. And it all relies on getting your message. Right. Right. And it’s so much about are you expressing your joy for your work and your mission in the right way that it connects with the right people? 

Sunil Bhaskaran  34:12

Yeah, I mean, most entrepreneurs are real artists. I mean, there’s some science involved too. But the more they get involved in the art, the more joyful they tend to get the artists usually need the art in which they deliver or they they interact and engage with their customer. And obviously the other parts of that could be artistic as well, how they deliver, you know, how they do their systems and all that but to be focused on the art and the joy in the art. And then leave the science to you know, other things that can take over like an admin or system or a platform.

Heather Pearce Campbell  34:49

I love that comparison to art and science. I have not heard that before in relation to business, but it’s so true and especially, I think probably a lot of the folks that you You serve for sure a lot of the folks that I serve who are expert based businesses, right? They’re service professionals. They’re experts, they have often businesses built around personal brands or in part built around personal brands. And that artistry that you speak of is that individuality, that special sauce that only they do in relation to their work or their clients? 

Sunil Bhaskaran  35:26

Yeah. You said it really? Well. I was almost mesmerized as I was listening.

Heather Pearce Campbell  35:32

I love it. Because it’s the same reason why, in the space of the types of businesses that I support, you know, you hear so many experts, like just follow this formula, just do it this way. And it’s like, no, there’s a reason that that doesn’t work in regards to the entire way that you build a business. There’s so much individuality in there. Yes, certain systems are the science, but you’re talking about, like getting admins involved in doing certain processes. And like, very clearly, you have to have Business Essentials covered, right, the science of it. But the way that you do what you do, the way that you infuse your work or your deliverables with your personality and with really what makes you feel alive about your work. That’s the art.

Sunil Bhaskaran  36:21

That’s the art. Yeah, yeah.

Heather Pearce Campbell  36:23

That’s such a fun analogy. Thank you for that. I’m going to be thinking about that for a while. Yeah.

Sunil Bhaskaran  36:30

Yeah. But I mean, your art is also brilliant. I mean, the way that you do this interview, for example, I mean, I’m just like, just like this is, this is a master at work.

Heather Pearce Campbell  36:42

Oh, thank you!

Sunil Bhaskaran  36:43

And I can tell you art you’re very, like, I mean, I have had some really, I had a lot of interviews, but your you know, your, your style is extremely good to draw out the best. And people say, Oh.

Heather Pearce Campbell  36:55

I love that. Well, I love people, right? My whole goal around launching the podcast is like, you know what, I need to just put a structure around something that I already doing, that I love so much, which is to connect also with other brilliant humans that are supporting others in really interesting ways. Because I’m a one on the Enneagram. I want everybody to do better and be better and have the best possible life. Yeah. And then use these conversations to serve people that I’m already serving, or that I could be serving or that I’m in communication with and then help these wonderful humans spread their own message right through this platform. So no, I love this. It’s a great joy for me to spend time on my podcast.

Sunil Bhaskaran  37:38

Yeah, totally. Totally get that. Yeah, yeah. 

Heather Pearce Campbell  37:41

Well, so I’d love to know, because I’m sure folks are thinking, Oh, my gosh, I need more joy. I’ve been disconnected. I’ve been on autopilot. I think even people who’ve done certain things really well at times, like life has a way at certain times, like today, Friday, like the morning I just described of taking over taking us off our path a little bit where we’ve got to continue to get reconnected to that joy. Right. And so some folks that are thinking like, I need to follow up with Sunil, I need to learn more about what he’s doing. Well, you share with us what what are the ways right now that you are delivering your services delivering your work in the world? Like what do we need to know about you as far as you know, who you serve, how you help them ways that people who are listening might connect with, with what you’re doing? 

Sunil Bhaskaran  38:38

Well, you know, I mean, the easiest way would be to get to my website, which is my main website is sunilbhaskaran.com. And just arrange to connect with me. You can also connect with me through meetupchat.com, meetupchat, I love it. And it asked a couple of questions. You know, if you’re more interested in the transformational side, just ignore those marketing questions and just go with it, you know, because I’ll hang with you. And if you’re interested in how to have joy in your calendar, I sit initially we weren’t going to promote this but I think about it probably makes them sense. And that is my program called the Joyful Calendar. And you can get Joyful Calendar, and you get a free report and how you can create a Joyful Calendar schedule and a project management system that creates joy. My god, can you actually believe?

Heather Pearce Campbell  39:31

I know people are like what my mind is blown. I did not equate calendaring and joy.

Sunil Bhaskaran  39:38

To completely disparate atomistic it takes a crazy engineer with some joiners.

Heather Pearce Campbell  39:43

Well there you go. See, this is where you fit I knew something really interesting come out. Totally, totally

Sunil Bhaskaran  39:49

Contrary in how obviously a lot of things that are good are contrary to how people normally think. But joy is usually a function of doing less, you know, that sounds kind of, you know what people say that. But I approach it from a brain science point of view, which is, most of your scheduling is done here in the prefrontal cortex and the prefrontal cortex is highly inefficient. So if you…

Heather Pearce Campbell  40:18

You don’t need to tell me.

Sunil Bhaskaran  40:22

When people equate the joy, the people refer to Goldilocks, it just has to be treated just right. And so the Joyful Calendar is how to treat your brain just right. So that you, well you get stuff done, and you can have time for everything else, you know, life. So creates a flexible calendar rather than a, what I call a North Korea calendar, which most people have, which is very authoritarian.

Heather Pearce Campbell  40:44

Here’s what you’re gonna do. 

Sunil Bhaskaran  40:45

Yeah, you gotta do it this time, or else you’re a schmuck, right, and good luck in having joined that. So, so I created a flexible calendar rather than a rigid or a chaotic calendar. So we can get a free report there, joyfulcalendar.com and enjoy the report. And if you are so interested in learning more, or you know, finding how I can help you deeper, I just reach out to me for that.

Heather Pearce Campbell  41:14

 I love that. So I know you’ve got obviously you’ve got groups, you have a community that you run, you’ve got your online, small business, your Global Small Business School, do you want to tell us a little bit about that? 

Sunil Bhaskaran  41:26

Yeah, the Global Small Business School.com was started to create affordable programs for people to learn how to network, how to start businesses how to get going, the Joyful Calendar program is on there as well. And there’s another program called, actually, it’s a free handout called the Meetup Money Making  Secrets.com. And it takes you directly to that class. And it’s a free class or a free handout that teaches you how to build communities that can help you actually increase your joy, and increase your profits at the same time. There’s nothing like having social, more social in your life, which leads to business. And if you can conquer social, then you can conquer business.

Heather Pearce Campbell  42:16

I love that. And like even that word conquer because I think so many people well, I will speak to my own experience, right? I love people and I love the real connecting and the in life stuff that the Zoom stuff I love as well. But social can feel like a conundrum right? It can feel like a waste of time or it like hard to overcome. And, and at the same time, I think there’s big questions for a lot of people around like how, how do I or would I build community? Right? And do it in the right way where people are engaged, or they want to hear from you or open your stuff? And it’s I think that’s a real challenge for a lot of folks. 

Sunil Bhaskaran  42:54

It is yeah, because social and your personal tend tend to be put as a second or third priority. In and which is kind of strange if you think about biology is run on social and caretaking. So you know, it’s worth exploring the opposite the contrarian, which is maybe social should be my business.

Heather Pearce Campbell  43:20

I love that maybe social should lead my business. I’m gonna let everybody think about that for a minute. It’s a it’s a pivot, right. It’s a change for a lot of people who are, you know, primarily in their business and then later are thinking about an even in marketing strategies, right. I think a lot of people have other marketing strategies, and still last on the list can be social for a lot of them. Right?

Sunil Bhaskaran  43:45

Yeah, yeah. I found when I turned it around and started focusing more on my love for human beings just like you do. Clearly, you know, less business started taking a different wave. I mean, they a lot of things didn’t change, things don’t normally change, but they transform. Because you just have a different view looking at it, right. So one thing that looks like a disaster, now looks like an opportunity. So the opportunity was to meet as many people despite it, being against my introverted kind of way of being, you know, to go out there and actually meet people and engage and then I found actually loved it. So, you know, and it actually made a lot of the business and business decisions I had pending in my brain a lot easier to make quite amusing how your social life can affect your brain in a positive way. 

Heather Pearce Campbell  44:37

All right, and how fun to be surprised in that way as well. Like how often do we get to learn something about ourselves? That feels like a surprise? 

Sunil Bhaskaran  44:46

Yeah, it’s very, very rare, isn’t it? Unless great the opportunity for that.

Heather Pearce Campbell  44:51

Yes. Well, and this speaks to the fact that so many of us stay in our comfort zone way too often, right? The only way that we get to learn these new things about ourselves is to do things differently.

Sunil Bhaskaran  45:05

Yeah. And I feel for people like that because the comfort white a comfort zone is very comfortable.

Heather Pearce Campbell  45:11

It’s like, cozy. Oh, the pillows and blankies. And yes, I know. I know. Yeah.

Sunil Bhaskaran  45:17

But it just longterm suffering.

Heather Pearce Campbell  45:21

Oh my gosh, I can I know, it’s so funny. Because for years, like what I’m thinking of right in this minute is I laugh that, like in my house, I’m not a shopper. But I have a major like pillow and blankie problem. You know, like, if there’s a soft blanket, or a cute pillow, like I’m gonna buy it, because I care that people are comfortable in my house. And I don’t know where this stems from maybe childhood. Who knows. But like, for years, I didn’t even need furniture, right? I was mom to a little boy. And I never sat down. I remember literally thinking like, I don’t, I don’t need a sofa. I don’t need furniture to sit on because we never sit. And then now that my family has grown up a little bit, you know, my son’s 11. I’ve got a little one who’s six and my, my number two is a cuddler. She will cuddle you all day long, right? So a few years ago, I invested in a big nice L shaped sofa. And I’ve laughed. I’ve been surprised at how much enjoyment I’ve gotten out of a sofa. But do you know what it is? Because it fits all of us? Yeah. And we’re cozy, we have pillows, we have little blankies we can cuddle together, right? So I’m thinking like, oh my gosh, here, my safe space is that big couch with my kids and my hubby and the pillows and the blanket like when you say comfort zone. That’s what comes to mind for me, right? And then you’re like, but it’s the Slow Death Road.

Sunil Bhaskaran  46:55

Wow, it was cheap. So far, I love it.

Heather Pearce Campbell  46:59

But, I mean, when you take that analogy out into your life, like obviously, the questions I have is like, where am I remaining too comfortable? Where am I staying on that big cozy couch instead of going out and doing something that I should be doing differently?

Sunil Bhaskaran  47:13

Or just inquiring into it, while taking care of yourself. So, you know, it’s transformation can be very confronting. But how can you make your environment more conducive to having it be natural? So it’s a natural occurrence. You know, I mean, like, I know, people are very social in the New York scene, for example. I mean, they have insights every single day, you know, talking to them, it’s like talking to an idea machine. Because they’re so used to it. It’s like second nature to them. And, you know, they can talk about almost anything, because they’re so social. So it’s really, you know, I think that’s something that’s also kind of missing for us. And we tend to love it once we get into it. You know, my best pals, you know, I have a group of guy friends and you call yourself the fellowship of bastards. I’m feel like I’m getting into it during your show into a rated show. 

Heather Pearce Campbell  48:07

But we can swear on this show. And I love it. I love hearing stories. 

Sunil Bhaskaran  48:12

When these guys get together, they always say, you know, you’re always mentioned me when you walk in, but you want to do this again.

Heather Pearce Campbell  48:20

Such bastards. Oh, my gosh, it’s so good. Well, I mean, it speaks to, first of all, a lot of things. But I think so much for me, as a mom, as an entrepreneur, like entrepreneurship can be so isolating, it really can lend itself to like working too hard on your own for too long. And it’s such a reminder that, like, the payoffs of really putting the effort into creating community, in small ways, and big, like, we just have to be doing it. We have to be watching for ways to do that. Because it’s so rewarding for our souls. 

Sunil Bhaskaran  48:57

It is yeah, yeah, totally. Yeah. But I just want to share a quick story. My, my nephew’s the dog of who’s been I think he’s almost 20 years old, is on his final legs, literally. And, you know, they call me, you know, this is how great community can be right? I’m having a kind of a tough day earlier. They call me and he said, you know, rough is on his way up. We’d like you to come over spend time and I said of course, you know, and it just shifted my whole heart. Right right away. Right, you know, you know, rough he’s gone are going and I really gotta go, you know. And so, anyway, I wanted to share that as kind of like a look to our compensation a little bit. And what’s really important not only

Heather Pearce Campbell  49:44

Reenters you every time Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, it’s really beautiful. Well, Sunil, I feel like we could keep talking forever. I love it. This is how I’m ending my Friday. So Happy Friday to me. But I’m so grateful that you came and shared, I know this is just a small part of you your journey, your work, but I can see how much you care about it, I can feel how meaningful it is to you and to your community and the people that you serve. So I’m super excited that there are some more folks now who get to learn about you in the world and go check you out and learn more about your work. And so folks, if you’re listening and you want to pop over, we’re going to share Sunil main website, we’re also going to share his joyful calendar gift, which I love, I’m gonna go check that out myself. And in part two, because I just love the word joy, so much of it has joined it, I need to go look at it and see what it’s about. So I invite you to do the same. Sunil, are you in any social media places? Do you want me to be sharing social media links? Oh,

Sunil Bhaskaran  50:52

Yeah. I mean, I’ve got my LinkedIn profile, and which I can give to you. And I got an Instagram and Twitter, I think that I’ve.

Heather Pearce Campbell  51:02

No worries. And I’m actually fine. If people are like, No, the best way is through the website or through a meetup or whatever, that’s fine as well. But we’ll share any socials that you want us to share. Folks, if you’re listening, go follow and support Sunil is work I just really love your mission of 100 million joyful and successful entrepreneurs in the world fully support it. What a final, I mean, we’ve already benefited so much from what you’ve shared here today. But any final either words of wisdom, action steps, you know, anything that you want to leave our listeners with?

Sunil Bhaskaran  51:39

I would say you know, don’t be afraid to be brave. I know it sounds weird. But don’t be afraid to be brave. And don’t be afraid to be brave enough to create a vision statement. And don’t be afraid to actually put some concrete to it. Because that’s what moves the worlds and makes a huge difference in those of you who are on the teetering edge of wanting to make a big difference with your community or your family or your world. I’d say be bold and go for it.

Heather Pearce Campbell  52:06

I love that so much. Don’t be afraid to be brave. That’s a total goosebump moment. So folks, go connect with Sunil. If you need help being more brave, you know, you need somebody like Sunil in your life to keep you really focused on your mission and doing the right things in support of that. Sunil, I appreciate you I’m so grateful that we are connected and I’m so grateful that I get to share this.

Sunil Bhaskaran  52:28

I’m so lucky. Thank you very much.

Heather Pearce Campbell  52:30

Thank you.

GGGB Outro  52:32

Thank you for joining us today on the Guts, Grit and Great Business® podcast. We hope that we’ve added a little fuel to your tank, some coffee to your cup and pep in your step to keep you moving forward in your own great adventures. For key takeaways, links to any resources mentioned in today’s show and more, see the show notes which can be found at www.legalwebsitewarrior.com/podcast. Be sure to subscribe to the podcast and if you enjoyed today’s conversation, please give us some stars and a review on Apple podcasts, Spotify or wherever you get your podcast so others will find us too. Keep up the great work you are doing in the world and we’ll see you next week.