With Jay and Cori Fiset, high school sweethearts since 1984, who have spent nearly 40 years together as life partners, entrepreneurs, and parents. They built multiple 7-figure businesses, including Personal Best Seminars, where they guided over 40,000 people through transformational experiences. As parents to two adopted boys and caregivers for aging parents, they’ve navigated the complexities of modern family life while continuing to grow their relationship.

In 2020, Jay and Cory underwent a powerful personal and relational transformation, using psychedelic medicine to reset and deepen their connection. Now certified guides, they offer the “Connection Experience” for couples, helping others reignite their relationships through profound healing. Their work focuses on communication, emotional intimacy, and realigning life and business around purpose and partnership.

Join our conversation as Jay and Cory share their remarkable journey of entrepreneurship, relationship challenges, and transformation through the use of psychedelic medicine. They reflect on how years of leading parallel lives led them to rediscover each other through intentional work, vulnerability, and psychedelic rituals, which reignited their love.

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Takeaways & quotes you don’t want to miss from this episode:

• How and when to shift from “No” to “Yes” in the relationship.
• Using psychedelic medicine to heal relationship issues.
• What is psychedelics and how does it impact relationship?
• How do you use MDMA for couples therapy and education?
• “Openness to exploring new possibilities can lead to breakthroughs…”

“So we began to learn more about psychedelic medicine… These powerful moments of clarity and certain decisions then occur without friction, without resistance, and quite literally, I got on a plane, I flew home, and 24 hours later, I was a different person.”​

-Jay Fiset

Check out these highlights:

• 08:16 Jay shares how he has been an entrepreneur since a young age…
• 15:07 Cory describes how she and Jay started leading parallel lives, which culminated in challenges by 2020.
• 17:22 Jay discusses his first experience with MDMA, how it gave him clarity about their relationship, and how it led him to make transformative changes.
• 40:21 Jay emphasizes that the real transformation comes from the integration work done from psychedelic experiences.
• 55:04 Listen to what Jay and Cory advise the listeners to do in their relationships…

How to get in touch with Jay and Cory on Social Media:

You can also contact Jay and Cory by visiting their website here.

Special gift to the listeners: Get an Instant Access to the Fireside Chat to answer the Top 10 questions couples have when considering a medicine journey to increase their connection and intimacy.

Imperfect Show Notes

We are happy to offer these imperfect show notes to make this podcast more accessible to those who are hearing impaired or those who prefer reading over listening. While we would love to offer more polished show notes, we are currently offering an automated transcription (which likely includes errors, but hopefully will still deliver great value), below:

GGGB Intro  00:00

Here’s what you get on today’s episode of Guts, Grit and Great Business®…

Jay Fiset  00:05

To learn it, doesn’t count unless I can build something with it. And it’s the building of something that proves to me that I learned it. And then there’s been this thing that has just naturally sort of evolved or followed me most of my life is whenever I actually successfully build some people are like, Hey, how do you do that? So that I think is what I love most about entrepreneurship is I can take a wild ass crazy thing I’m curious about build something that actually works. And then inevitably, people asked me to help them do the same or something similar.

GGGB Intro  00:33

The adventure of entrepreneurship and building a life and business you love, preferably at the same time is not for the faint of heart. That’s why Heather Pearce Campbell is bringing you a dose of guts, grit and great business stories that will inspire and motivate you to create what you want in your business and life. Welcome to the Guts, Grit and Great Business® podcast where endurance is required. Now, here’s your host, The Legal Website Warrior®, Heather Pearce Campbell.

Heather Pearce Campbell  01:01

Alrighty. Hello, and welcome. I am Heather Pearce Campbell, The Legal Website Warrior®, and attorney and legal coach based here in Seattle, Washington, serving online information entrepreneurs throughout the US and the world. Welcome to another episode of Guts, Grit and Great Business®. I am so excited for today’s episode you guys are in for a treat. I am bringing my dear friends and really also personal mentors today on to this episode. Welcome to Jay and Cory Fiset. 

Jay Fiset  01:39

Hey, thank you for having us, Heather, it’s gonna be exciting.

Heather Pearce Campbell  01:43

It’s gonna be so fun. And this is going to be a highly unusual conversation for those listening. We’ve never talked about that. But if the timing really is so perfect, we were just talking before the episode went live about the age of the podcast, I’m sure Jay that you were one of my earliest invites onto the podcast. And for some reason, it has never happened. And now it’s happening, which I love, honestly, and tells me like the time and the topic is really not only right?. And I really truly believe that based on where you guys are at based on where things are headed generally in the world in the marketplace and people’s individual journeys and the needs that we all have to really evolve ourselves in our relationships.

Jay Fiset  02:32

Yes, the tides are returning in this particular topic.

Heather Pearce Campbell  02:38

Absolutely. And for those of you that don’t know, Jay and Cory Fiset, we first met oh my gosh, this is one of my favorite stories, but it was 2006, no 2017, the start of 2017. And I had received an invite from a mutual friend to one of Jay’s events, JVology at the time and I see that you’re wearing your genealogy. I know. I love it. But back to how we were introduced, it was through a mutual friend that invited me to an event you’re running at the time and I’ve always said this. And for some reason, it’s always been true. Things are clear. Yes or clear? No, for me, there’s very little in between. I didn’t know you I didn’t I’d never been to one of your events. I’m not even sure we were yet connected online. And there. Yeah, it was a clear yes. And I was I think you joke like, you know, 17 months pregnant or something. I was very pregnant. It was the middle of winter. And you guys in Calgary were in the middle of like a massive snowstorm. And, you know, I flew in I think I flew, Yeah, I flew hubby and son with me at the time and as well and we were gonna rent a smaller vehicle, we ended up renting a big huge truck to get around in that storm. And it was terrific. And that was the first time that we met and that I was introduced to your work. And I’ve been a super fan ever since.

Jay Fiset  04:12

Ditto. I remember like in the middle, that cold snap, and you look like burst could have happened that weekend. It’s like, I admire your tenacity like you would not believe.

Heather Pearce Campbell  04:24

Well, you know, I listened to the clear yeses, and that was a clear yes. And it’s been super fun to watch your journey. You know, there’s, if I were to do your formal bio, I’m sure it’d be very long. But for those of you listening, Jay and Cory have lived in the personal development space for quite some time. The backstory is that they’re highschool sweethearts, and have, you know their own story, which I’m sure we’ll hear some of today around the evolution of their relationship, as well as you know your own introduction into the world of personal development and growth and I mean, I think a lot of us end up there in a variety of ways. And you guys have been in that space for quite some time and really have been leaders in that space have led experiences and workshops, and retreats and events of all kind, all kinds for both couples and individuals, and then have also…

Jay Fiset  05:21

For 30 years. Like, just to be clear about this, like, we’re dinosaurs. When people say, “Oh…”

Heather Pearce Campbell  05:26

You’re not dinosaurs, I know.

Jay Fiset  05:28

It is like we’re talking 32 years, 33 years, 40 graduates, like, it’s been a while.

Heather Pearce Campbell  05:33

It’s the space that you have lived in for quite some time. And then Jay has also, you know, branched out and Korea with them into leading events and instruction and all kinds of support for people in the entrepreneurial space as well. And so they have lived in both spaces, they’ve worked with entrepreneurs, you know, 1000s of entrepreneurs over the years, and, and also, you know, regular individuals on their personal development journey. There’s a lot more to it than that, but I just care that people know, you know, you guys have a heart for the work that you’re doing, you have experience with not only your own journeys and the work that you’ve done for yourselves, but the way that you so capably guide others through the work as well. And I will say that being involved in the online entrepreneurial, you know, internet space, for lack of a better term, the thing that I really admire about you guys is how openly you share about your own experiences. And you’ve always been that way, like, even from the beginning, one thing that I admired about Jay from the start was, he’s not somebody that just stands up there and just talks about the happy shiny parts. You know, even in business, you talked about the tough stuff, and you know, some of the falling down really hard stuff that not everybody is willing to share about their own journeys. And so that’s just something that I’ve always admired about you is, I feel like, you get the good and the bad, meaning that it’s not just all gloss. And that’s, I think, so important for so many of us in choosing mentors and choosing people to, I mean, even to know and be friends with, you know, yeah.

Jay Fiset  07:24

We joke about this, but I’ve made more mistakes than anybody I know. Because I take more risks than almost anybody I know. And I can save you a whole bunch of mistakes if you’re willing to listen.

Heather Pearce Campbell  07:35

Right and I’m a resounding were like, if I can avoid the mistakes I would like to try so you know, good match, I so appreciate you guys. I would love for you to shed a little more light on your journeys, you know, whatever part of it you want to share to help introduce folks who don’t know you who are perhaps hearing from you for the first time today, you know, I’d love you to share the parts of your story that you would like to share as far as how you arrived to the work that you’re doing now. I know that’s a big Yeah, that’s a big question. There’s lots of stuff in there that we can dive into.

Jay Fiset  08:16

So I’ve been an entrepreneur since birth, frankly, in terms of, you know, buying my first bicycles, motorcycles and cars from entrepreneurial ventures. And I love, love, love entrepreneurship and went into that space, really, from the beginning. 

Heather Pearce Campbell  08:32

Really quick, I’m gonna pause you right there. What is it that you love about entrepreneurship? 

Jay Fiset  08:37

That’s a really great question. But I think that part of my wiring and years and years ago, I was doing a version of a mission course with someone, or you had to pick three words that describe you best. And my three words were Learn, Build, teach, and I love to learn I’m voraciously curious about the weirdest damn things in the universe, which you’ll find more about shortly. So I’m very curious. But learning doesn’t really count for me unless I can build something with it. And it’s one of the reasons why we have you know, for brands, personal that’s someone who has a greater scope of genealogy, masterminds, millions and now connected now and forever, because it’s fine. Is that to learn it doesn’t count unless I can build something with it. And it’s the building of something that proves to me that I learned it. And then there’s been this thing that has just naturally sort of evolved or followed me most of my life is whenever I actually successfully build something, people are like, Hey, how would you do that? What would you do that that’s a little bit weird and unusual. And that always lands in teaching, and not and I want to be clear about it not because it’s like who I really want to teach, but it’s just been the evolution. So that that I think is what I love most about entrepreneurship is I can take a wild as crazy thing I’m curious about build something that actually works. And then inevitably people asked me to help them do the same or something similar.

Heather Pearce Campbell  09:59

Yeah. Well, and having watched you now for, gosh, over seven years, right? I can attest that, yes, you move into action very quickly. And it’s, it’s been something that’s been really fun. So as Cory taking a big breath, like

Jay Fiset  10:20

it’s more fun for you to watch and this for my hair white, but that’s okay. 

Cory Fiset  10:24

Very true. Right.

Heather Pearce Campbell  10:26

But it’s on the teaching side, and I can appreciate that as well, right? If you have to teach something, like, it’s what helps you to ensure that you yourself know it, and, and not everybody is able to teach. So I think that there’s more to it than that. Like, I think, obviously, you’ve got a natural aptitude for teaching as well. You know, it’s having been to some of your in person events, it’s a little bit of a firehose at time, meaning that you can absorb and process a lot of information quickly, and then turn it around, and not everybody can do that. And so I think that’s a real gift as well that, you know, you get to bring to those in your circle, and that, you know, people that know, you get to really benefit from. So once you I mean, got into a let’s call ityour entrepreneurial journey. I’m curious if you want to share some of the twists and turns along the way in that.

Jay Fiset  11:36

I’m gonna put chapter titles to it. And if you want to dig further, feel free. I mean, we’ve owned and operated businesses, and, you know, restaurant coffee space, partial real estate, mastermind, space, digital marketing space, all like all sorts of things.

Heather Pearce Campbell  11:55

Right, nothing as exciting as what we’re doing now. No more. No, that’s true. And mostly, what I wanted for people to know, is kind of the depth and breadth of your experience in the entrepreneurial space, right, because we’re talking to a bunch of entrepreneurs.

Jay Fiset  12:10

So let me say it this way. And this is perhaps the easiest way to say it is that I really threw myself into, you know, full on the personal development world at about 20. At the age of 22. I was pretty young. And it took me almost 15 years to break seven figures in annual sales. And that was in a very difficult space of personal development being young and blah, blah, blah. But since then, you know, the honest goodness, truth is, I can start position and grow and build a seven figure business, generally speaking in three to six months, as in any industry and those sorts of things. And I’ve done it inmultiple industries. And it’s sort of a bit of my magic trick to figure out how to do that. But here’s the heart of what I’m trying to get at is this is that I love entrepreneurship, I love entrepreneurs, I love the creation process. I love the contribution process. And there’s a little bit of a truth telling that I think you as you know, a lawyer could probably see more accurately than I could for many years. But it’s a tough truth and a tough pill to swallow that most entrepreneurs, as powerful and great as they are, as creators, myself included, are also thieves. And what I mean by that is that we steal resources from our family, we steal resources in terms of self care, we steal all sorts of things out of our life and out of our world, to make the creation aspect work. It’d be one thing if we were just borrowing because we never say we’re gonna steal, it’s like, we’re just borrowing, I’m just gonna get the wheels on the bus of business. And then maybe…

Heather Pearce Campbell  13:40

Moving, just get to that first benchmark, just, you know, achieve whatever it is that we think will bring us that stability that Pete, like, Whatever it is, that is that driver.

Jay Fiset  13:52

And in six months, we’ll buy the house or go on the holiday or do this or do that. And it’s all going to be fine. But the truth of the matter is that six months turns into nine months into two years into four years into six years, and comes at an incredible cost for our children, for our spouses, for our health for our family, and I’m talking about moms, dads, you know, the other side of it. So I was guilty of that, as straight as I can say it and that process through a variety of different businesses through a bunch of cool creative stuff that we could again sing the praises of, there was a dark side to that, which is we started leading parallel lives. Which brings us to…

Cory Fiset  14:31

2020.

Heather Pearce Campbell  14:34

Everybody listening for all flashing back to 2020 and all that it brought so many depths, actually.

Jay Fiset  14:44

Can I tweak that for a second? 20 was when the shit hit the fan of parallel lives, but we really started leading parallel lives in about 2010. I started traveling the US I was doing much more in the digital space there. One more distance between us, but should hit the fan in 2020. And not for the regular reason of it. But for our reason…

Cory Fiset  15:07

It was a school you know, it wasn’t. And many relationships like we weren’t, we didn’t fight we didn’t have you know,we were just each doing our own thing. Like we just had our youngest come home, he was born in 2010. I was going through periods of what we’ve come to see now is depression, and then coming out, he’s traveling all the time, there was a lot of resentment building up,and we were having trouble talking about it, we were having trouble navigating it. And we were just each doing our thing and handling the mechanics of life. Quite well then coping and, and that’s what we were doing. 

Jay Fiset  15:47

In that timeframe, we bury three, we bury three parents, we go the parent with the dementia, we adopted two kids and we bought a new house, we sold a business a business landed back in that Alaska, we started really is like, it was like a perfect storm of shit show on wheels, which, you know, we could just say, standard entrepreneurship, plus a marriage and kids event. Yeah.

Heather Pearce Campbell  16:06

Health issues. And so anyway, come you know, your experience, Jay? Well, you were at the event in San Diego in February end of February 2020. Before the world shutdown, but that is really the time when this process began. And I’ll just let you quickly tell your experience Jaybecause it’s how how we started doing this work with couples. So first ourselves. I can’t believe I’m talking about this with people. Because when we began this, it was like there was no it was just how do we save our how do we make it to our 25th anniversary, which was coming up later that year? That that’s where this all began.

Jay Fiset  16:51

So what transpired was simply this, we’re at this event. There’s a dear friend of mine and a client who has been leading psychedelic journeys using MDMA. And he’s like, do you want to do this? Now she and I had been invited five years prior by three different places. And we were always like, no chemicals revenue in that crazy stuff.

Cory Fiset  17:09

We didn’t even talk about it. No, no, he would go, you know, there’s so many. I talked to someone and they said this really the save their relationship, do you think we should try it? And I’m like, No, it wasn’t even on the table.

Jay Fiset  17:22

Correct. So anyway, we’re getting into this spot of parallel lives is very difficult. And I’m at the spot where we got to do something, and I’m willing to try. So I ended up doing this journey with a mutual friend of ours. And unbelievable moment of clarity, honesty. And the best way I can describe it was like a spotlight shone down on a wall that we had built between each other. And each one of the bricks in that wall was a little bit of bullshit that I had been telling about myself about our relationship about where we’re out and about what was going to happen in our future. And most of them basically sounded something like, this is what happens when you’re together with somebody for 25 years, you know, you just aren’t as excited about it, your sex life goes down. And it’s like, so just justification after bullshit justification after bullshit justification just trying to cope with all of the stuff we were dealing with. But every single one of those bricks was a wall between us. And in a instant of, I’m going to call pure clarity, for lack of a better word. Without any blame about she did it wrong. Without any blame about I did it wrong, it was just perfectly clear that that wall has to come down, I have to tell the truth, I need to start taking care of myself. And this changes now. And this is one of the things that is so powerful about psychedelics is these powerful clarity. certain decisions then occur without the friction without the resistance without the story without all those pieces, and quite literally, I got on the plane, I flew home 24 hours from that experience. When I took MDMA the first time I weighed 203 pounds. When I got home 24. Three hours later, I weighed 193 pounds, that’s really 10 pounds melted off my body from simply telling the truth. It was like boggling, like absolutely boggling. And I came home took a couple days to have the conversation with Cory. And I finally said, listen, here’s here’s what’s going on. I saw this, I’m kind of bullshitting myself, I gotta start taking care of myself, I’m gonna lose weight, I’m going to grow my hair, I’m going to fix my teeth, and I’m going to get on with doing everything in my power to be happy. And I really hope you come with and if you can’t, and if you don’t want to, that’s okay too. And I understand, I’d really love you to. And that began your reinvention and 1000s of hours of conversation and US leaning into using psychedelics as a method no means to step outside of the box, which by the way, was not the fastest easiest thing in the universe to get my dear wife to say yes to.

Cory Fiset  19:58

Right, right. And, you know, it was what we both agreed on is that we loved each other. It wasn’t a question of did we love each other? So that was the first thing you know? Yes, I’m absolutely on board to figure this out to heal this. And hopefully we can maybe it’s too late, I don’t know. But let’s do it. We both were committed to that not knowing how it was going to look not knowing how it was going to roll out. But we got really curious. And you know, because the love was there, we just really got you know, we said earlier about, we facilitated couples weekend’s retreats for hundreds of other couples for decades. And how did we find ourselves in this spot? Like, we should know better?

Heather Pearce Campbell  20:42

Oh, my goodness. Well, I think you’re speaking the language, you’re speaking the language, though I have so many people that that really try to put in the work that are trying their best to lead good lives to keep it all together to not majorly eff things up. And I think so many of us think like, we should be doing better, we should we should have figured this out by now. We should have gotten this, like what is wrong with me that I’m in this place and can’t seem to figure this out?

Cory Fiset  21:14

And we both are the kind of people that we think we can’t figure it out. We don’t ask for help easily. We don’t reach out for support. We didn’t we didn’t go see a couples counselor therapists were just like, No, this all you know, we’ll figure this out.

Jay Fiset  21:27

And if we can’t, there’s like these unconfigured rotable, which is nothing could be further from the truth.

Cory Fiset  21:34

Yeah, and then the timing of it was meticulous, because within a week of that happening week to 10 days.

Heather Pearce Campbell  21:42

And this is Jay having that first experience.

Cory Fiset  21:47

So I think that was the very end of February. And it was like March 13, where their ports are closed. And so normally he’s on he said planes, trains and automobiles and headed off to the next event or whatever. And we, we didn’t we were able to be at home and we were able to work on us. And we’re still grateful for COVID for that reasons.

Jay Fiset  22:11

Almost like it happened for us. 

Cory Fiset  22:13

Because you know, we wouldn’t have had the space or time to do what we had to do. And who knows, maybe we would have figured it out or maybe not. But COVID happening at that exact time was, was definitely a miracle. And I know it was difficult and for many people, but we were at that moment like for those few months, we were just so grateful to be able to just be at home with each other and have that cocoon. And every every day every night, we just we talked and we talked and we talked and we talked.

Jay Fiset  22:43

And began to learn more about psychedelic medicine more about how it has helped in therapy, how it can help get the amygdala offline, how it can open the heart so that some of the conversations that we’ve been trying to have for 10 years but always landed in fights, were suddenly we were able to help them. I understand what’s going on for you more and I actually get it in my heart not in this mental it’s like well, and you should. It was just this incredibly different experience and literally 1000s of hours of conversation and a continued recommitment that landed at a weird spot, which is we fell in love with each other again, and then ultimately got to this spot of using what we call the ritual of utilizing medicine in an intentional strategic manner that we landed at this spot of this is the most loved and loving we’ve ever been in our entire lives. Which Yeah, who on one side of that like that’s beautiful. And on the other side of that we’re like, oh shit, and we’ve been together almost our entire lives. It took this long to have this experience like what the hell yeah. That was a bit of a of a rub as well.

Cory Fiset  23:51

It took a while to get to the point where it happened exactly how it was supposed to you know if you just trust in the divine nature of the universe, it’s like this is when this was supposed to happen. It wasn’t supposed to happen five years before otherwise. I think trying to surrender to that that this is you know, we’re in our 50s now and here we are.

Heather Pearce Campbell  24:10

Well I think…

Cory Fiset  24:11

Every six weeks, it’s so much fun. We’re having so much fun we were headed out on one of our because we did we set up a six week like literally every six months and we can talk about what is because Sarah totally affected and your serotonin uptake your to give four to six weeks in between using certainly we were very careful about that. And we we followed all those those guidelines but we were headed out on one of our adventures and Jay’s sisters here with the kids and and thank goodness for her too because she basically moved in while we were figuring all this out and would stay with the kids when we would you know go and I’m like skipping around and packing an overnight bag and she says something to me.

Jay Fiset  24:55

Like no and she goes out to the car and yeah, and she comes in she leaves

Heather Pearce Campbell  24:59

I know Lynn. I love Lynn. 

Cory Fiset  25:01

Oh yeah, you do.

Jay Fiset  25:02

She leans in and she goes, What the eff have you done to her? And what is going on here?

Heather Pearce Campbell  25:10

And this is in preparation for the first one, or this is after you’ve been doing it every six weeks.

Jay Fiset  25:15

This is probably every six weeks, maybe we’re nine months in.

Heather Pearce Campbell  25:19

Okay, got it. So you’ve got your routine down, you’ve made progress. You’re feeling good about this progress.

Cory Fiset  25:25

We’re starting to have more fun. Like we were starting to just really dive into the enjoyment of each other. And you know that that’s something else that we had had kind of put on the sidelines when we were just like, we’re not having fun. We’re not like, what’s fun? 

Heather Pearce Campbell  25:43

Oh my gosh, yeah, I think so many of us can relate to that, like waking up and being like, Wait, I thought it was supposed to be fun, at least a little bit, like, at least at the time. 

Cory Fiset  25:58

We just started enjoying life again with each other and exploring that, you know, exploring how that felt. And yeah, six week adventures were.

Jay Fiset  26:01

Can I just add to that? And what’s interesting, is this CG. And we’re not really telling anyone what we’re doing because we still think is bonkers. And out there. Right? It’s like, we’ll just like…

Heather Pearce Campbell  26:17

Right, right. And I can attest to the fact because we were in touch all of this time, like through COVID. That right? I didn’t know that that was happening in the background of your lives, right? 

Jay Fiset  26:28

Every single member of my family either outright made a comment to both of us, or made a comment to Cory about me or to me about Korea, but it’s like, Man, you guys just seem really, really happy right now. It’s like, This is the happiest we’ve ever actually been in our entire lives. And they’re like, it’s cool.

Cory Fiset  26:48

So August of 2020, we went to Vancouver. And we basically renewed our vows,we went there for our 25th wedding anniversary, and we were just not sure we were gonna make it. We’re so happy we were there. And even that whole week, we were still you know, having conversation. But we we recommitted to each other at that moment. And that is kind of taken us on a wild ride to where we are today.

Jay Fiset  27:13

Which so we’ll just go one more August. So this is literally a year ago. So through all that occurring, people start showing up saying what are you doing? Can you help us? And we’re still, maybe we’re just trying to figure out like…

Heather Pearce Campbell  27:24

What can we do to help ourselves? Yeah,

Cory Fiset  27:26

Yeah, can’t you do what? 

Jay Fiset  27:28

And they’re like, Well, look, you guys lost 60 pounds, you look like a million active. So we have a bunch of fun your boy how are you happy in the middle of the world coming to an end like all of this stuff, right? And then it finally came to us that there’s so many couples that we would like this like you know if so and so and so on so did this wouldn’t that make a difference for them? And then of course all these requests so we decided that we’re going to go and get certified and we weren’t sure we were actually going to do anything quote professionally with this but we’re gonna get certified at least figure out what what we need to know to continue this process to continue to do it safely to learn and evolve and to lean into this you know, psychedelic Renaissance which we didn’t know there was a psychedelic Renaissance going on we we just happen to fall into.

Heather Pearce Campbell  28:09

We hadn’t been in it right No, I get it. 

Jay Fiset  28:11

So we went got certified that was one of the most meaningful experiences of our love it.

Cory Fiset  28:16

Sold on the value of what we were creating. It was almost I’m gonna say it was almost miraculous. And that the how is this like we knew that is what was making the difference. So it was that was part of what motivated just really wanting to learn more about how this is working and happening and you know, just what’s going on in the world connected to and related to psychedelics and getting more educated around it.

Jay Fiset  28:43

And Good lord, there’s a lot to know.

Heather Pearce Campbell  28:47

All right, let’s pause for a moment and hear from today’s sponsor. Are you an entrepreneur who is on track to make a million or more in revenue this year in your business? If so, your business is likely facing a host of legal issues that are right for support. And if you are like so many of my clients at this level, you are likely tired of taking unnecessary risks and a DIY approach to legal support in your business. You’re ready to tackle the mess of legal documents, six legal gaps that you have. You want to take care of your IP, your clients, your business, and avoid unnecessary conflict and risk in the process. If this is you, and beyond just being an entrepreneur, you are a catalyst and are committed to your mission and your impact in the world. I invite you to get in touch. You could be a fit for my catalyst club, a small business legal support program that I designed for my high level clients. Just like you, you can find out more at legalwebsitewarrior.com. Just click on the Work with Me tab to learn more about the catalyst club and other ways that I support my clients, a fabulous group of world changing entrepreneurs, I might add, you’ve done the initial legwork in your business. And now you want to soar. And you know that you can only go as high and as far as your legal foundation lets you go. So get in touch today, hop over to legalwebsitewarrior.com, click on the Work with Me tab. And if you have any questions, get in touch through the Contact link on my site, I look forward to connecting it would be a joy to support you on your path. Well, and I think, you know, from obviously, I have an outsider’s perspective, I’ve not been living your guys’s lives for the last however many years. And so from the outside witnessing the journey and going on my own continued learning, I think, you know, the power of what you’ve described, and being able to, as you call it, you know, take the amygdala offline, I think we just truly don’t understand how powerful our nervous systems our wiring are, what and to what level it truly, and I am choosing this word carefully, but it truly dictates what happens in our lives, our relationship, our responses to things, it’s not even influences like I feel like that’s how strong it is, is that it literally dictates dictates our responses.

Jay Fiset  31:34

And Heather, you’re 100% correct. And I cannot tell you how many times we’ve had this conversation of oh my god, if we knew back when we were doing the personal development courses, which by the way, are incredibly powerful and meaningful and significant. It’s some of the greatest changes in my life. But to understand that, I’m going to call that dynamic to work on primarily the consciously a little bit subtler unconscious, compared to the wiring of the nervous system. We have amygdala being the gatekeeper to our autonomic nervous system. Like the all of those pieces together. It’s like, every, like, we were just like, Oh my God, If only we knew, like, We did good. But we could have done great work for 10s of 1000s of additional people, you know?

Cory Fiset  32:18

Appeciate this Heather, but there is science to back it up.

Heather Pearce Campbell  32:21

Right? How many of us?

Cory Fiset  32:22

Ohh psychedelic people like, you know, when we went to our certification, we thought there’d be a room of hippies and they hand us drugs. Like we didn’t know what to expect, but it was 90%. There was a little bit of that, but we were surrounded by therapists, counsellors, psychotherapists, psychiatrists, psychologists, psychiatrists, like in the cohort we were in, it was fascinating. I’m like, Oh, my God was people. They get this and they’re here to learn more to bring it to their, you know, is addition to their therapy. But anyway, that there’s so much that we’ve learned since about the science of just how certain psychedelics work in us and what they can create.

Jay Fiset  33:07

And may I just say this, because there might be people listening who were us three and half years ago, it’s like, Oh, come on. And I guess my request would simply be this. First and foremost is that MDMA is currently listed as a breakthrough drug. And the FDA is heading into phase three trials. It literally broke the scales by which they measure the efficacy of treatment for PTSD. They had to redo the scale, because it was so effective that it blew everything else out of the water. So this isn’t opinion, this isn’t conjecture. This isn’t an anecdote. This is absolutely 100% proven science. 

Heather Pearce Campbell  33:44

I’ll say MDMA is to the mental health, holistic health world, what ozempic is to weight loss, right? For anybody following the ozempic, or similar drug trials, and it was an accident, it was developed for an entirely different purpose. And I’m not promoting ozempic. By the way, I’m just saying scientists actually read an article on it yesterday, they still don’t understand how ozempic works. They don’t understand how it does what it does. It’s like three times more effective than any other drug ever previously developed for weight loss, and it wasn’t developed for weight loss.

Cory Fiset  34:24

It was developed for diabetes. Yes, a different one. Yeah. Yes.

Heather Pearce Campbell  34:28

So anyways, all I’m saying is that MDMA, I feel like what little I know about it, and I have read up on like the, you know, PTSD, trials and treatments and the ways that you know, people have used it to really create tremendous breakthroughs that they have not achieved in any other way.

Jay Fiset  34:48

Well, the thing I would invite people to do is to continue to do the research exactly as you did. Find a safe way to experiment with it and then make your own decision. And the reality is As there are no words in the English language, there are no words, in all of the conversations that we’ve had that can articulate the difference between having a conversation that used to poke me, hurt me, activate me, agitate me all those sorts of things, from that space to the deepest compassion and desire to truly get and understand and know what she’s feeling and thinking and to express love in that space. And I wish there were words for that, because that’s all those words are sort of, like, remote placeholders that suck. It that true experience is.

Heather Pearce Campbell  35:40

Well, and I think, you know, as I look at all of the things that I mean, I can speak to my own journey, all of the things that I try, you know, that we collectively try in order to really achieve what I think is just simply heart opening to life, to our partners, to our children, right, like, even the workshops that you previously described, like, I feel like these are all wonderful, great things, they interest closer they, they help us see things a little bit more clearly. Or try this instead of doing that, or, or recognizing at least, like some of the patterns that we engage in because of our wiring. But they still, you know, I don’t I wouldn’t say that I’ve ever had one that has bumped me on the head with like, feeling like I’ve leaped a mile instead of just a few feet. 

Jay Fiset  36:34

It’s funny. Smile, because what I what I often will say and have said, in our conversations, like this feels like one side of the Grand Canyon to the other. Like, just like boom, boom, yeah. Oh.

Heather Pearce Campbell  36:47

Oh, right. Well,for anybody that wonders like, how could that be true? I think about like, I just had a recent experience, also a painful one. And,let’s be clear that my sisters are the closest things to me in my life, right? And out of the freaking blue had an extraordinarily painful conversation with one of my sisters last week. To the extent that I was like, holy effing whatever, insert any number of you know, expletives. Yes. They’re all appropriate. Like, the power of our wiring is so obvious in those circumstances, right, even when we love and this is not a obviously an intimate, you know, partner relationship. And I think those have the potential for even more explosives, if you will, but this is a lifelong relationship that I care a lot about. And it still went so so poorly. Right. And I think that was just one more example of the dictation, really, that our wiring imposes on our lives. 

Jay Fiset  38:00

If I may use an example. So my mom had a sip of alcohol in 55 years, doesn’t take doesn’t take Tylenol won’t, won’t do the blood thinners when she had her hip removed, like she just does any sort of, quote, drugs, medication and that sort of things.

Cory Fiset  38:22

I’m not taking that shit. Doctors like you need a blood thinner, just had an operation, no.

Jay Fiset  38:28

We may well die, she can smell so be it. But anyway, so really anti, any sort of drug medication, same as two sisters. And what’s fascinating is that we’re just big believers and people making their own choice. But here we are. and a half years later, both of my sisters have been in the last year active in the psychedelic space, it has had some tremendous healing experiences, both in our relationships and in their relationships. 83 years old, come on 84 is you think I should try that? So So you know, to me, it’s that whole piece of?

Cory Fiset  39:09

I don’t know, she should try that.

Jay Fiset  39:11

But the point is, if you live into it, and use it as the tool, do the integration work that is necessary. It is this thing that can take you from one side of the Grand Canyon to another, and it’s observable to anyone who is close to you and is paying attention. Yeah. And to the degree where it’s like, I would never do that. It’s like, can you tell me more because I’m, something’s clearly up for you guys. And we’re happy for you and what that leads.

Cory Fiset  39:38

What you said about integration. So I don’t want, Yes, or like, Oh, you just went every six weeks and did that. And it was the in between the six weeks thatwe just we were making these. I’d call at the time subtle but significant changes and it was in between each of those adventures. We were through the eye think the rewiring and everything that was going on behind the scenes, we were changing how we were with each other and how we were interacting and what our days look like and how we were. And with our kids to like, it wasn’t just us. But there was integration happening in between which that next experience was like, you know?

Jay Fiset  40:16

Including seeing a therapist, including getting another job, including doing a whole variety of things.

Cory Fiset  40:21

Recognize that you know, what we do have to reach out for support. And that’s an important thing and just, you know, things that used to be like, No, why would we do that all of a sudden, we’re like, of course, let’s get it done. Let’s go. You know, and it became like, just obvious and easier.

Jay Fiset  40:37

Flow, resistance, resistance evaporates when you’re aligned, and psychedelics help align. 

Cory Fiset  40:44

And I, for some of the men listening, you might appreciate this, I recognized pretty close to the beginning. That I was like, I wasn’t no person, you know, he’s always the idea is, let’s try this. Let’s do this. And I’d be like, yeah, no. Greater uncertain, or I need more information, or whatever. But one of the commitments I made at the very beginning of our reinvention was to go from the wall of the wall of nose to being a sea of yeses. And I just made that internal commitment. Like, you know what, Cory, you gotta get out of your own way, you got to step out of the circle. So even if it seems a little scary, or whatever, committing to being a sea of yeses in our relationship opened me up to Okay, well, yeah, sure let’s try that. Let’s do this. Let’s go on this adventure. And that’s the part about having more fun, too. But it allowed for us to just really step into a whole new version of what our relationship could look like. And I realized how those wall of nose just weren’t like shutting down, life became so clear to me, and that was one of the huge shifts I made right at the beginning.

Heather Pearce Campbell  41:53

Well, and I think, you know, those can show up I mean, those, we’ll call it the the wall of bricks, the you know, the the nose that whatever you just called it, it was at the wall of nose to see a wall of nose. Yeah, the bricks, the nose. Like it’s insidious really how life works. And that it’s like, I think for so many of us,  it is the analogy of like, being a frog that slowly boils versus right, if any of us were dropped from our like, Have you ever haven’t had an experience in your life where you’re on your own? And really, that comes to mind because of a lot of phases in life where you don’t have these other obligations and the weight of like, real living that’s weighing you down. You go from that dropped into life. 20 years later, so many of us would be like hell to the no hopping right back. 

Jay Fiset  42:55

Do you want to be spontaneously combust?

Heather Pearce Campbell  42:59

Obvious the misalignment though, right? And I think that’s the trick. And it’s the choice that we all have of do we continue to kind of slip into that comfortable but disassociated living that so many of us do. Or do we get the tools ask for the help to really wake up to what it means to be a full yes, in our lives and in the lives of our partners. 

Jay Fiset  43:29

I want to read actually a text that I got today that from friends of ours that did our courses years and years ago. And this is the text that came this morning not prompted or anything sort things is just follow. It’s like, I’m not sure how to thank you to enough our relationship has been transformed. We’ve experienced little miracles everyday sense, truly life changing. I repeatedly have underestimated the seriousness of our situation when I would hear you and Cory and other people say in the fireside chat that they wouldn’t have lasted another five years. I never believed that would be would have been us. However, I had been woken up to the situation. I don’t think we’ve ever been closer than we feel right now. It’s awesome. Thank you both so much. But it’s exactly Friday night. Experience just Friday, this was the text this morning.

Cory Fiset  44:17

But it’s amazing. 

Jay Fiset  44:18

It’s true. Most of us in that are the frog in the pot. US included that that without some way of stepping outside of what we have unconsciously created to see it will be trapped there until it’s just too painful. And then that’s the end. Unfortunately.

Cory Fiset  44:37

Yeah. Yeah. Or are people just stay in that space and not realizing how, perhaps how great it could be.

Heather Pearce Campbell  44:45

Totally, they either stay in the space? Yeah, I think it goes one of two ways. They stay in the space and continue to slowly boil or they get the brick in the face through some traumatic event in life that forces them to wake up and make a change right? Not everybody it gets the break. And not everybody gets the boil. But you get one of those if you don’t make the choice. Yeah, you know, the people are going to hear this conversation. And I think for so many, it’s going to be like, opening a door just a sliver of a crack like, huh, right, what can be behind that door. And I think some of the highlightsthat I hear, and that I take away from not only the conversation, but just observing your journey is, you know, one, how do we achieve this heart opening effect. And this is clearly in your lives, in your experience, and in the experience of your clients a major way to get there faster, and you still have to be doing the work. It is not like because I think for so many people, they think like, oh, there’s no light switch, easy path, easy button, right? That just feels wrong to the end. But I think what I’m hearing you say is like, No, it’s not the easy path, it wakes you up to things and it increases that awareness, and it definitely facilitates change, and you’re still doing the work, you’re still doing the processing the integration, the the conversations, the time together, you don’t get to skip that.

Jay Fiset  46:21

You cannot. And may I just add something like this science, again, is really clear. And this is where we just if we have if there’s a tool, you know, like a screw in the wall, don’t get a hammer, and don’t use your thumb, right, like those proper screwdriver. And this, you know, specifically MDMA and other pathogens and attack regions that we utilize in the connection experience. Number one, it opens the heart, the amygdala goes offline. But here’s the thing that I don’t think people are talking enough about is that your degree of neuroplasticity for the next two to three weeks is as let’s call it as malleable as when you were a child, you do in those two to three weeks how we bring ourselves to each other the decisions that we make, the commitments that we make, the structures and the support pieces we put in place, literally change the wiring of our brain. This isn’t just like, Oh, I’m gonna do my affirmations and have a positive thought this is we’re going to build a new neural network that copes with our life in a different manner. And every single time you do the ritual, you’ve got two to three weeks to build upon that network. And, and that’s, that’s why the work outside of it is so so so important. If you do it, that it’s this catapult forward.

Heather Pearce Campbell  47:39

Right? And how many of us I mean, I can speak to my own experience, I have literally felt in your brain, like you’re stuck in a rut, that is our neural, like, as much as we want it to be different, right? The affirmations the meditation, the bla bla bla, bla, bla bla, the list is very long, right? But you still recognize that wiring whether it’s a trigger from a child doing a particular behavior, whether it’s, you know, a parent, a sister, like whatever, I think we all have lived the human experience, which is to develop these neural networks that become a freeway, and we just fly down them a bazillion times faster each time we go down that same freeway, which is the experience of life.

Cory Fiset  48:28

Well you compare it to like the tracks when you’re skiing? You know, it’s just go down the hill? And what if we were to jump out of those tracks and make different tracks or go a different way? That’s exactly what what happens.

Heather Pearce Campbell  48:43

Well, I know that there’s so much more we could talk about, I’ve got a bazillion questions floating around right and out of respect for your time. I want to not do that to you. I know you guys lead, like an introductory call. I think it’s like a fireside chat or something, right? Because I’m thinking like for folks like me, they’re listening like, oh, well, what do I do if, if we are let’s pretend you’re in a relationship? And yes, you’re committed to working on it. But you have different ideas of like, what working on it means or like, maybe I’m open to this, but maybe my spouse is not what you know, what do we do? Or maybe we just need to learn more about what this could do for us and and learn more about MDMA. Maybe you’re a baby in the world. mind altering substances like I am, right, like today, the most mind altering thing I’ve ever done is a glass of red wine. You know, I don’t even know if it counts. It’s not five glasses of red wine. So there are people maybe like me that are thinking like, Oh, I’m really curious because my heart and my mind want to know more and I feel so inexperienced or so out of my depth.

Cory Fiset  49:59

And that’s one of the things when he came home we we watched, we watched some like that Michael Pollan, Netflix how to change your mind to change your mind. We watched a goop thing of what its culture was like, we just watched some things because he knew I needed information. That’s how information so yes, we do offer different ways to get that information from us about what we do. 

Jay Fiset  50:20

And the easiest way in the sort of most neutral ways is literally go to our website, which is the connectionexperience.love/fireside

Heather Pearce Campbell  50:30

.love. You are kidding me? There’s a .love. I did not know that.

Jay Fiset  50:36

It was like, and again, that was one of the things that was made for us.

Heather Pearce Campbell  50:40

Yes, that one is so obvious. 

Cory Fiset  50:44

We have the fireside chats. And we ask people to explore all of that, perhaps together, you know, so that you both of you are learning about this. And then if the you know, the interest is piqued, and all right, maybe this would be for us, we should probably you know get a better sense of that, then we can have a one on one chat with you.

Jay Fiset  51:03

And there’s literally a button right underneath the fireside chat says book a time to chat. And we will. And just to be clear about this. These chats are about education and match. This isn’t for everyone. We don’t pretend this for everyone. But it is for a lot of folks. And our objective is to get you the information, make sure you make a decision that’s aligned, if it’s not with us, we have an entire network of folks that we are thrilled to refer people to because our objective is really is to get medicine in the hands of people that want it and need it and will use. And there’s lots of ways in which that happens. So it’s an educational piece first start there, we will have a conversation that is aimed at answering questions and you know, knowing what’s right for you and your partner.

Cory Fiset  51:45

And then we have an intake process as well, we’re very diligent about making sure it’s safe for you. So we look at different, you know, medications, health, all kinds of things in the intake process as well to make sure it’s a match. 

Heather Pearce Campbell  52:01

Well, and just so people listening are clear on how much care Jay and Cory put into their work in general, but also in this area, you know, they’ve been certified, they have done this for years now in their own process. They’ve learned from some of the best in the industry, they’re extraordinarily well connected. And you’ve heard Jay already talked about his his innate drive to learn everything there is to know about a topic when he decides to dive into that topic. And so I personally know and I’ve experienced in other ways the care that you put into your trainings the way that you shepherd people through a process. And I think that care and safety can’t be underscored enough. When if you’re like me, you’re thinking about like, oh, I would do this, but only in the structure of somebody that I fully trust and know, you know, is going to walk me sleep safely through this process. And I can say, without a doubt, I know that is you guys for me. You know, and it’s, you know, I think that can help take away so much of the fear, thank you amygdala that a lot of people would experience around this conversation, right?

Jay Fiset  53:19

It’s the single most significant piece of feedback that wereceive is, we would never do this, it wasn’t for you to like this was just would not be on the table if it wasn’t for you to virtually every single one of our couples in our community, which I think we’re at like there’s 33 or 35 couples at this stage. 

Cory Fiset  53:37

It’s a step removed, like our good friends know, you guys and that’s why we’re here. Kind of done it started branching out to people.

Heather Pearce Campbell  53:44

We didn’t know personally but they knew somebody we knew personally still there was that trust, yes, that trust factor through others, which I think is just it’s really important. And I think that for so many of us whether it’s an opening on this topic or something else, those openings in our lives happen when we’re willing to learn from those around us because of trust because of that connection. So you know, I thank you guys for modeling your journey. It’s been phenomenal to watch I just adore you as humans. And yeah, I’m so excited to introduce you to hopefully new folks that will come into your circle. What I know that there’s so much more and maybe we have a part two to this down the road who knows but for folks that are listening that want to connect with you I know you already mentioned and we will drop your links including any social media links if you are open to connecting on social media. We’ll drop all of those for listeners at the show notes page which can be found at legalwebsitewarrior.com/podcast, find Jay and Cory’s episode and you’ll find everything there that you need to know what final either takeaway or action stuff would you like to leave listeners with with thinking question. 

Cory Fiset  55:02

Yeah, of course.

Jay Fiset  55:04

We have started in the process with our couples saying this phrase, and this is usually when they’re about to embark upon a journey or a connection experience. But I think that it applies also at the stage of exploring and seeing if something like this could work for you and your partner it needs this is that we ask them to invite into expect miracles. Because they happen all the time, not in a million years. What we created is so far beyond my wildest dreams and what I had hoped for. When I did that first thing, it’s like, I’m just grasping a straw hoping that we’re gonna figure something out, I could never have dreamt that we could have gotten to the slug, we got to like, that’s just beyond my comprehension is a series of miracles. So if you’re considering this, like, what would be the miracle that you would like to invite into your self into your relationship into your home, that could really, truly genuinely change everything?

Cory Fiset  56:04

That’s a good one. Along those lines, just to be open, be open to you know, if you’ve tried everything, if you’re feeling stuck in you’re feeling in the rut, and you’re feeling like you’re, like we said parallel lives. Just being open to exploring something outside the box. So some form, perhaps that will be, you know, where the where the change is for you. And that openness is absolutely what saved us. I mean, had I been just, uh, no, I wouldn’t have we wouldn’t have. Yeah, so yeah.

Heather Pearce Campbell  56:38

Now what I’m visualizing is like taking one brick off of that wall of nose. Right? Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. I love that. Will Jay and Cory I so appreciate you guys. Thank you so much for joining me today and sharing. 

Cory Fiset  56:56

Thank you.  

Heather Pearce Campbell  56:57

Oh, my gosh, well, it’s you know, it’s just a really special thing to hear about somebody else’s journey and the way that you guys so openly share it, you know, the good times and the bad and I know you’ve seen all of it and, and continue in your own learning your own efforts and all of that, because it’s never really truly an arrival point. But I just adore you guys. I so love that you’re here talking about it. And I’m so excited for people that get to hear this episode.

Jay Fiset  57:28

Thank you for helping to share it. We deeply appreciate you, Heather. 

Heather Pearce Campbell  57:32

Absolutely. We’ll connect again soon.

Jay Fiset  57:34

Take care. Bye bye. 

GGGB Outro  57:38

Thank you for joining us today on the Guts, Grit and Great Business® podcast. We hope that we’ve added a little fuel to your tank, some coffee to your cup and pep in your step to keep you moving forward in your own great adventures. For key takeaways, links to any resources mentioned in today’s show and more, see the show notes which can be found at www.legalwebsitewarrior.com/podcast. Be sure to subscribe to the podcast and if you enjoyed today’s conversation, please give us some stars and a review on Apple podcasts, Spotify or wherever you get your podcast so others will find us too. Keep up the great work you are doing in the world and we’ll see you next week.