With Christopher Panagiotu, a father, husband, author, podcast host, business owner, and CERTIFIED FINANCIAL PLANNER™ Professional, he discovered his love for guiding others to true financial success early on. Introduced to investing at the age of 10, Chris took his passion further by interning at UBS at 18 and later joining Morgan Stanley, only to realize his true calling was beyond the corporate world. In 2015, he started his journey to build CAPitalize Your Finances, LLC, focusing on providing clients with personalized, growth-driven financial planning services.

Today, Chris runs his firm in Fircrest, WA, just minutes away from where his story began. Over nearly a decade, he has built CAPitalize Your Finances into a thriving business, known for its commitment to client success and community engagement. Chris is not only a CERTIFIED FINANCIAL PLANNER™ Professional but also a Chartered Retirement Plans Specialist℠ (CRPS®) and the proud host of the “CAPitalize Your Finances” podcast, where he shares his insights on financial well-being, life coaching, and more. As a keynote speaker, Chris inspires audiences on topics ranging from finance to health, offering down-to-earth, jargon-free guidance aimed at helping others CAPitalize on their potential.

Join our conversation with Christopher as he emphasizes the power of investing in oneself and the importance of keeping financial planning simple. Chris reveals his unique approach to understanding client needs without resorting to overly complex strategies. He also reflects on his experience at Lucia Capital Group, where he built his practice from scratch to nearly $100 million, highlighting the role of financial literacy and efficient wealth management in achieving long-term stability and freedom. Tune in to this episode to gain valuable insights into creating a personalized, growth-driven financial path that leads to true financial success.

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Takeaways & quotes you don’t want to miss from this episode:

• The significance of investing in yourself as the greatest return on investment.
• Why do most people grow their net worth by focusing on financial planning, not just investing acumen?
• How the big firms make financial planning unnecessarily complex.
• The concept of replacing your expenses quickly to gain financial freedom and focus on what matters most, like family.
• Diversifying your investments across different assets and why saying “yes” to multiple types of investments is essential.

“Compound your wealth as prudently, efficiently, and hopefully quickly as possible, because then your only goal is to be there for your family.”

-Christopher Panagiotu

Check out these highlights:

• 07:46 Christopher explains how his passion for investing began when he was introduced to it at the age of 10.
• 32:26 Why Christopher left big firms?
• 38:12 The importance of diversifying investments rather than sticking to one kind of investment.
• 47:29 Financial planning doesn’t need to be complicated. Here’s why…
• 1:00:43 Christopher’s final takeaway to the listeners…

How to get in touch with Christopher on Social Media:

Special gift to the listeners: Get a FREE Preview of The CAPitalize Your Finances course to help you become financially wealthy so you can afford your dream lifestyle. This course is for those that want to gain true financial literacy from an actual financial planning professional.

Imperfect Show Notes

We are happy to offer these imperfect show notes to make this podcast more accessible to those who are hearing impaired or those who prefer reading over listening. While we would love to offer more polished show notes, we are currently offering an automated transcription (which likely includes errors, but hopefully will still deliver great value), below:

GGGB Intro  00:00

Here’s what you get on today’s episode of Guts, Grit and Great Business®…

Christopher Panagiotu  00:05

Investing is like the sexiest part of money, right? That’s where you see, like the Warren Buffets and the people that make the billions. I think what people don’t understand is, you know, most people in this world did not make their net worth and grow their net worth based on investing acumen. I mean, they did it by understanding investing in yourself that is the best return on investment ever.

GGGB Intro  00:29

The adventure of entrepreneurship and building a life and business you love, preferably at the same time is not for the faint of heart. That’s why Heather Pearce Campbell is bringing you a dose of guts, grit and great business stories that will inspire and motivate you to create what you want in your business and life. Welcome to the Guts, Grit and Great Business® podcast where endurance is required. Now, here’s your host, The Legal Website Warrior®, Heather Pearce Campbell.

Heather Pearce Campbell  00:57

Alrighty, welcome. I am Heather Pearce Campbell, The Legal Website Warrior®. I’m an attorney and legal coach based here in Seattle, Washington, serving online information entrepreneurs throughout the US and around the world. Welcome to another episode of Guts, Grit and Great Business®. I’m super excited to be here with you today, in part because I’ve taken a break from the podcast, so I’m back to recording, and we’ve got a super fun guest for you today. Welcome to Chris Panagiotu. Hi Chris!

Christopher Panagiotu  01:34

Heather, thank you so much for really breaking open the barrier of 2024 with your basically return back to the podcast. I’ve missed you dearly, and I know we were speaking before this. I don’t know what we are going to specifically talk about, but there’s gonna be a lot of fun. So I’m looking forward to it.

Heather Pearce Campbell  01:52

Totally. I remember the first time that we connected, and it took us a while that was mostly my fault, and I had a great chat. You are an introduction from another fabulous human who has also been on this podcast. So big shout out to Laurie Barkman. I’ll have to link back to her episode as well. Also lives kind of between you and I, from the standpoint of finances and legal, right? So she’s in like, the merger and acquisition world, also the business building world, great human, great person to know. So a big shout out to Laurie, and thank you for introducing, introducing me to Chris. For those of you that are listening today and don’t know Chris, Chris Panagiotu is the founder of capitalize your finances, and by the way, he’s also got a podcast, I believe, of the same title, right?

Christopher Panagiotu  02:50

Yes, and the same title of my book. I wanted to make it…

Heather Pearce Campbell  02:54

Your branding is yes, spot on and all the same. So you can just search that you’ll find all of those things, and we’ll talk about some resources at the end. But before Chris was a father, husband, author, podcast host, business owner and certified financial planner, professional, Chris was born for the life of guiding others to true financial success. Christopher Panagiotu, the CAP in CAPitalize, which I love, was introduced to investing at the tender age of 10, and you guys, he’s got a great story. When I first heard it, I was like, what I know. Fast forward to 18, and he accepted an internship at one of the largest wire house firms in the world, UBS. After three quick years of college. I don’t know how college years are quick. I guess looking back, they are, but when you’re in the midst of them, right, they don’t feel that way, after three quick years of college at the University of Oregon, something was not sitting right with him, so he joined Morgan Stanley for a short stint, where he quickly realized corporate life was not in his wheelhouse. Chris was extremely blessed to have discovered Lucia Capital Group, and in 2015 he began his journey to grow what is now his business, CAPitalize your Finances LLC. In his nearly seven years at Lucia Capital Group, Chris built his practice from scratch, going from $0 to nearly $100 million in that timespan. Today, Chris proudly runs his financial planning business, CAPitalize your Finances located in Fircrest, Washington, could almost throw a stone and hit you, just kidding, roughly five minutes from where he grew up. Oh, that’s fascinating. And the CAP in CAPitalizes journey began. Chris is a CERTIFIED FINANCIAL PLANNER TM Professional and a Certified and a Chartered Retirement Plans Specialist SM, so here comes all the acronyms, right? CRPS, conferred by College for Financial Planning. He holds the following licenses with LPL Financial: series 7, series 66. In 2020, Chris was recognized as a Five Star Wealth Manager by the Seattle Times. Woo hoo. Shout out to the Seattle Times. The CAP in CAPitalize is not your average financial advisor or financial planner by any means. Chris is the original CAPitalizer: one who is absolutely obsessed with profoundly understanding there is to know about their passion. This translates to a striving push to perfection for clients’ outcomes and although there is no such thing as perfect, a CAPitalizer does not need to justify their knowledge with big words from Wall Street, complicated graphs, charts, or talking over people. A CAPitalizer wins based on loyalty, stewardship, unwavering commitment to their family, friends, clients, and colleagues, which results in the overall growth and positivity within the CAPitalizer’s community. This is what Chris is all about.  Outside of the office, Chris hosts the podcast “CAPitalize Your Finances” (available on Spotify and Apple Podcast), as well as a keynote speaker on a variety of topics such as financial advice, financial planning, sales, health and wellness, ding, ding, ding. We were just talking about this before going live, and comprehensive life coaching. Chris, that is quite the introduction. There’s more words in there than probably many people read in a day? 

Christopher Panagiotu  06:22

Yes, yes, yes. I well. And it’s funny, because when people ask, they’re like, what’s an average day look like? And a lot of my day is reading, and I probably rip through, oh gosh. I mean easily. 100 pages a day, I mean easily. And for me, I think to myself, well, that’s not a whole heck of a lot, but most people, it’s like, Dude, I haven’t cracked a book in like five years. I’m like, Okay, well, maybe that is a lot, yeah, and it’s funny, because, like, when people describe me and my story, I just look at myself as an everyday dude. I mean, I really do. I know that’s not the case. And we can talk about really, wherever you want to start in my story. But you know, day to day, I just put my head down. I keep doing what I’m doing, and I try to make a new person smile every day. That’s been my New Year’s resolution that was in 2020 and I’ve stuck with it.

Heather Pearce Campbell  06:22

That’s a big one. 

Christopher Panagiotu  06:26

Yeah, I just consider myself a regular guy that wears really cool shirts by bad birdie.

Heather Pearce Campbell  06:40

I mean, it matters. It matters in the day of zoom. It really matters. So one of the things that is really fascinating to me about your story is how young It seems you connected with this passion, right? That is taking you to where you are today. Where did that come from?

Christopher Panagiotu  07:46

Yeah, so my listeners know that at 10 I so I grew up in a financially literate household. I do not have any relation with with my father anymore in our desire to but he was obsessed with Warren Buffett, like unhealthy amount. I guess if you’re going to be unhealthily obsessed with one person, that’s not a bad one. But it’s still weird to me looking back on it, because I don’t want to be him. I want to be me, but again, investing was a topic, but it wasn’t really a topic until I was 10, and that’s what I tell a lot of people, because at the time, and you know this being a fellow Western Washingtonian, which I hate that description, but it is what it is, Starbucks was blowing up, right? And I remember my mom had a Starbucks coffee, and I just loved the smell of it. It just, I don’t know Starbucks coffee is always been just nostalgic to me, because I think of my childhood, and my mom told me not to touch this and goes in the other room. Naturally, I take a sip. I get in trouble, and I’m really quick.

Heather Pearce Campbell  08:58

I have to pause here, because as a new mom. So first of all, I worked for Starbucks clear back in the day. I’ve got you, I think, by a few years. Yeah, I moved to the East Coast one summer, and I was working during the week for the National Women’s Soccer League. And then I was stacking up because I didn’t start usually those work days until like early afternoon, mid afternoon, really, and then would work, because all of the events were, you know, way into the evenings. And so I got an early morning gig, starting at Starbucks at like five or 6am opening the store and serving coffee. And we were in a location where the line would be out the door and around the building. It was a standalone building, anyways, so early, early Starbucks days. And then when I became a new mom, you’re talking about that nostalgic smell of coffee, right? I would have my coffee every morning, which was just like, you know. Know anybody who’s a coffee lover can relate, like, it’s just the ritual of having like, a warm drink in the morning. And my son, who quickly became a toddler like too quickly, right? His number one goal in life for the first, however, many months he could walk, was to get over to my coffee as quickly as possible, if I was not paying attention to it.

Christopher Panagiotu  10:24

Okay, yes, so he was much more advanced than me. I was a late bloomer, is what you’re saying. Well, it’s funny, so a couple things. So this was on the East Coast really quick.

Heather Pearce Campbell  10:33

where I worked, right outside of Boston.

Christopher Panagiotu  10:36

So that’s interesting, because when did Duncan come into play?

Heather Pearce Campbell  10:40

Oh, Dunkin Donuts was already around, yeah.

Christopher Panagiotu  10:43

Okay, it was already around. Why? I was like, oh, because when you go to the east, I mean…

Heather Pearce Campbell  10:50

No, I know it’s all done, yeah, totally.

Christopher Panagiotu  10:54

I mean, there’s no way you would get Starbucks, right? But it’s funny, you mentioned the coffee with the nostalgia, with having a child and all that, because my wife, that was one of the few things when she was pregnant with Abby. She could not have she could not know a cough. Couldn’t do it. It was that and that. What was it? Oh, and brushing her teeth, she could brush her teeth without gag. Hey, like that cruel.

Heather Pearce Campbell  11:26

It’s so cool. It’s very cruel.

Christopher Panagiotu  11:29

And my wife, I mean, Steph, I’m so sorry. I’m sharing this to the world. But like, it’s just interesting, because most people that I’ve listened to that you know, most women that have been pregnant, that are coffee drinkers. They just fall more in love with it. And my wife, I think, is the only person I know that just I think it was the first, it was definitely the first trimester in in halfway through the second, like I would have to drink the coffee, like my coffee outside. 

Heather Pearce Campbell  11:59

Yeah, the smells are over. I still have aversions to foods that happened while I was pregnant. And I had seven years of pregnancies, lots of pregnancy traumas, but it is no joke like that biology that takes over and is, like designed to keep us safe and alive and not eating poisonous, terrible things, right? Bam, in your face. Yeah.

Christopher Panagiotu  12:22

Did you have any issues with eggs? Because that was another one that my Steph was like, you better make these eggs like, right? You better. So after I was done working out, I would come inside and I’m literally just like, inhaling my food. There it was. There was no enjoyment of my breakfast. Were the first choice?

Heather Pearce Campbell  12:41

Did you have issues? I had issues with everything. And my issue was that something would sound good, and then I’d sit down, like, I could make myself a little meal, or whatever, even my husband could. And then I would sit down and I’d be like, I can’t eat it. I just can’t eat it. And so it could just be momentarily, bam, it would switch, and I just suddenly couldn’t eat something. And so the weird thing, the one thing that happened in Aiden’s pregnancy that was really interesting, and to this day, I have kind of this nostalgic craving for it from time to time, is my husband would cook this, like, pan of spinach. Like, you know, how quickly spinach, like, cooks down. But he’s, I could never cook it the right way, and he could, like, quickly flash cook it, but in horseradish, of all things like lemon and horseradish. So it was this really, like, strong I had that craving all the way through the my entire third trimester with my son, every day I was pounding spinach and horseradish. Isn’t that crazy?

Christopher Panagiotu  13:51

I can tell you with confidence I have never, and I probably will never hear again that that is the niche of all niches for craving, like I’ve heard ice cream, burgers, pizza, like, you know, whatever, teriyaki, uh, spinach drenched in horseradish. And, like, what? Lemon? Lemon Juice. Lemon juice. Yeah, I’m never gonna hear that one again.

Heather Pearce Campbell  14:16

But I created a kid who, like, by the age of two, you asked him his favorite foods, and he’d be like, pate, hummus, like things that little tiny kids are not having, you know, a palette for So, yeah, he’s an interesting eater. I know. There you go. Anyways. Kudos to your wife. She survived. You drinking coffee. Yes. Has she ever gone back to coffee or she can’t. Oh, for sure, she has okay. So it just was, I was gonna feel sad for her if, like, she never could go back to coffee.

Christopher Panagiotu  14:49

No, that basically, oh, third trimester, like it was basically all bets were off the table. She’s back much, but then within a week of Abby blessing her presence into the world, Steph was back to guzzling coffee like the rest of us. 

Heather Pearce Campbell  15:11

Yeah, totally back to human form. Good, good. I like hearing that.

Christopher Panagiotu  15:16

Yeah, yeah. So sorry about the tangent. I know we went totally off. You know.

Heather Pearce Campbell  15:20

It was a super important one. So, you know, what ups? These stories have to come out. So back to this early passion, right? You recognize that, and it sounds like, you know, partly hereditary, partly modeled like you. You inherited this passion for finances, and you were early, early acclimated to it like it was a comfortable conversation for you to be in.

Christopher Panagiotu  15:46

Yeah, and so Starbucks, actually, and that’s how the whole tangent started. Starbucks was stock I ever bought, and the reason why I was so intrigued about it was when I took a sip of coffee, I had that almost like primal desire of, oh my gosh, I want to get in on this. Because, like, every kid wants that, right? And that’s where both of my parents said, Well, you can actually own part of that business. And in my mind, like, Okay, if I have an iPhone in my mind, I’m like, Okay, I’ve got an iPhone in my hand, therefore I own apple. Like, that’s what ownership was to me. And that wasn’t the case. And so by the time my 10th birthday came around, that’s where I was gifted, the Intelligent Investor by Ben Graham, who, for your listeners that are not familiar, was Warren Buffett’s teacher. Now the key about that year was that year Jason Zweig, who is award winning financial journalist, basically wrote the translation for all practical purposes, so there would be the original chapter, and then Jason basically wrote the okay, if Ben was alive today, this is what he meant. And I go, Oh, okay, so the wheels turned a little bit. And yeah, but no, my first two stocks I bought were Starbucks and Microsoft. And one of those, the reasons were, you know, you invest in what you know, and you invest in what’s around you. In my mind, my mom and all of her friends were drinking Starbucks. So everyone drinks Starbucks in Microsoft. This was my analysis. I’ve had Crohn’s my whole life. So when my Crohn’s was bad, I couldn’t go play with my athletic friends. In being an Uber extrovert, I made friends with gamers. And at the time, Age of Empires was the computer game. It was only on PC, because that’s really only what was out. And I thought, well, then everyone plays an image of empires. Therefore everyone has a computer for Age of Empires. Therefore it’s Microsoft, because they’re the monopoly. In my mind. That was my analysis.

Heather Pearce Campbell  18:01

You know, it reminds me of I heard, I don’t know where, on some probably other podcasts, not only around, like your investment stuff, but this whole, like paying attention to what we like and what is present and what is happening. It’s like the rage of investment by moms into roadblocks looking around at their kids being obsessed, right? And like, I’m like, Man, I missed the boat on that and Minecraft. And like, I would hear the chitter chatter, but then hearing moms go, oh yeah. Like, I went and bought me some because it was clear. It was just so, you know. And it the sticking power, like, you actually look at those games compared to some of the other games that exist, or have existed, even the visual like, you’re like, how is this? How does this have such staying power, right? 

Christopher Panagiotu  18:54

Yeah, it’s interesting. You even bring that up too because, and we just went from like, 10 year old, not knowing Dilly dick, to like, investing 801, because, like nowadays, because I’ve had clients ask me about Roblox and full disclosure, I don’t follow the company. Impossible to follow everyone. But one of the things that has been really helpful for me was to get to the easiest answer. And so what I mean by that is, you know, is gaming like a good industry, dude, yeah, like so many people game, and now it’s a sport. Like last year, the Fortnite champion won more than the champion of Wimbledon, okay, which is wild to me. But then the question becomes, okay, so where are you going to be right? And the issue with that is, there’s so many of these companies out there where it’s almost impossible to really, you know, pinpoint, oh, this is going to be. The absolute winner. And so, you know, for me, like, if someone ever mentioned that with like Roblox, knowing what I know now, I never would have touched it, because I’d go, it’s in my too hard pile. You know, I’ll tell you, out of my entire investment career, and I’m saying from 10 years old through today, other than investing in myself, I would say, like, the most proud investment thesis I’ve ever written, and then the returns backed it was when I invested in Wrigley’s chewing gum by a mile, like not even close, because one, there was zero competition. I mean really, zero competition, no debt. Everyone uses gum when times are good. You can afford it. When times are bad, people get nervous. So it’s a hedge. I went to private school. All of my friends chewed gum to get an edge. All of my friends parents were smoking, and so a lot of them were getting off of it. So then the nicotine patch, or the nicotine gum, came in, they owned that market, and then they owned the sports market, and they paid no marketing. So I’m like, oh, done deal. And it was like, you know, one of the best overall, like, investment experiences of my life. And so I tell people make it. Because people are like, Oh, dude, that’s so easy. I’m like, Yeah, you want it to be so easy, and you want to have a couple of those easiness selections where, like, Charlie Munger, God, rest his soul. He just died a couple months ago. The dude only had like five investments, and he was a billionaire, okay? And he just made it simple. He had Costco, Berkshire Hathaway stock, which you could argue is a number of stocks, okay, but the daily journal, Leah Liu, who’s actually in Seattle, a hedge fund manager, who I admire greatly, that’s a crazy story, by the way. And then he had a couple apartments, that’s it. And he was worth, what, $4 billion by the time you die, you only need to be right a couple times.

Heather Pearce Campbell  22:03

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Christopher Panagiotu  26:09

Yeah, that’s actually much. It’s a great question. I think it’s a much more loaded question than than you and your listeners may even think, because there’s multiple ways to answer that. I think where most people go is the family aspect, because they go, Okay, I wasn’t raised in it then, you know.

Heather Pearce Campbell  26:30

It wasn’t the culture. Yeah, right.

Christopher Panagiotu  26:35

But one thing that a lot of people don’t think about is the time which they live in, specifically when they are developing the most. So, for example, if you go back to 1920s, everyone was investing in the market. Now, granted, there weren’t like there wasn’t the Securities Act of 1933, Securities Act of 1934, Investors Act 1940, which basically prevents another depression from happening. Okay, but then you look at from like 1930s and through 40s, you could argue, relatively speaking, the majority of the United States did not touch the stock market because they saw the ravage that happened during the 30s and 40s, like you could even fast forward my grandparents, my mom’s mom and dad. God rest their soul. You know, they looking back on their psychology. They did not invest forever. And then on top of that, they had a pension and Social Security, so you didn’t really need to. And I remember my grandparents, I believe, started investing a little bit more in the 70s, right after everything pulled back in. My grandparents retired. I think it was September of 1987, the month before the Black Friday crash, and so it took them almost a decade to even, like, dip a toe back in and looking back, I’m like, Oh my gosh, if they did what they did, I mean, they would have passed away with, obviously, a ton more money. You can’t go back. But on the flip side, go another generation up. So I’m going to use my mom as an example. You know, my mom, because you’re not really thinking most people about investing until you’re out of school, because, like, then you have to adults, and at that time, you know, like, my mom started working in really, like, the 70s, right after the really greatest one year recession that we had. Okay, I think instead of down like 75%

Heather Pearce Campbell  28:48

And is that when interest went way up? 

Christopher Panagiotu  28:51

Yeah, well, it’s interesting. That was more of a interest rates took off massively in 82.

Heather Pearce Campbell  29:00

So that would have been when I was a kid. And I remember that period because I remember my parents talking about it, oh…

Christopher Panagiotu  29:06

And there were food lines, like it was gas lines, excuse me, it was a big deal. But my point is, when you have that, it’s really hard to get out of fat, right? And go, Oh, well, you know, I saw all of the rabbit in its loss aversion, right? We don’t want to lose and I actually have talked about loss aversion, just like in personal life as well, because I’m a big believer in taking mental models in, like my industry, and then I apply it to everything in my life, right? You have to be nimble. So I would say the more honest answer to your question, but more complicated is it is out of your control, because nowadays, I would say more people are investing than ever before, because how easily accessible it is, and you compound the fact that people that don’t know what they’re doing. Thing have gotten away with it for as long as they have interesting.

Heather Pearce Campbell  30:04

Yeah, well, and you know, part of my question, really, my thought was, is it because people think, well, I don’t really know how to do this. Well, you know what I mean, and there’s that fear involved of like it’s a little bit like when you go to hire professional, and you think, Oh, this is so out, so far outside my knowledge base, right, of like, what I’m comfortable with, and it can be challenging to even, like, hire the right professional, because you don’t know really the expertise that you’re looking for. Yeah, yeah.

Christopher Panagiotu  30:38

Well, and you know what? I think one of the things, because a lot of people will ask me, and because investing is, like the sexiest part of money, right? That’s where you see, like the Warren Buffets and the people that make the billions and all that, which, No, I’ve never interviewed Warren, but I’ve interviewed, like other people on the Mount Rushmore of investing, they’ve actually all become really good friends of mine, and I’ll tell you, everyone wants to be that. But I think what people don’t understand is, you know, most people in this world did not make their net worth and grow their net worth based on investing acumen. I mean, they did it by understanding. What I joke about is I’m a master at outsourcing, and I outsource everything that I can to focus on the one core thing that I invest at, which goes back to what I mentioned earlier, investing in yourself. That is the best return on investment ever. You know, if you own a business, guess what the best return on investment you are going to earn is within your business. Now, there will come a point where you’re, what we call return on invested capital will cap out, and that’s when you need to start taking distributions, because it’s more prudent to go and invest that elsewhere, because you would actually earn a higher return on your money. But a lot of planners and a lot of investment professionals make it so gargantually complex, or then at the roundabout way, they say, Well, just let me take it over, like, let me just, just trust me. And that is bullshit. Well, I can say that, right? That is okay. That is certified bullshit to the nth degree. That’s not planning. That’s just like jacking people around in asset hoarding. That’s why I left the big firms, because that’s all they do. 

Heather Pearce Campbell  32:26

I was gonna say, I think this element of what you’re talking about is also one of the things that can keep people out of the market because of that. Like, I don’t know what I don’t know, but I also don’t want to be taken advantage of where somebody’s gonna say, yeah, just put it all over here and then be taking a bunch of fees because they chose a high fee investment, right? Or whatever, yeah.

Christopher Panagiotu  32:49

And one thing too, so like when I wrote my book, and I’m not gonna just turn this into an infomercial about myself, but what so the reason why I wrote my book, because a lot of people ask why? So people get confused with investing and planning. They’re totally different. And when Ben Graham came out with the intelligent investor that was considered like the Bible of investing, okay, he was the godfather. And almost everyone that you talk to or know of that is famous, that invests, they’ve come from the house of grant. That’s where they come from. When I left the big firms, my big thing was, okay, planning is where I’m being called to the most. That’s just, like, I just, and you know that you can’t put your finger on it, but in your gut, it’s, it’s like, a positive not like, How can I not pursue this? So I thought, oh, there’s got to be that equivalent on the planning side of the aisle. And there wasn’t one. And so for me, the only like this is why I do the podcast, in the book, in the brand, in the master class. I’m not doing it for the money, and I’m definitely not doing it to get more clients. Like, yeah, we’ve got a minimum of half a million if people want to come in and get premier service, great. I’m the guy. If they’re really boring, I don’t want them, because I like to think I’m pretty fun, right? But for me, I’m trying to build all of these layers in and have people go as far out without having to hire someone like me. It gets more complex when you have half a million or more like, I’m just…

Heather Pearce Campbell  32:49

You just need that. Well, no, you and I, I think, have similar hearts in that. Like, for me, one of the big reasons I built my second business was because the legal industry is so inaccessible to small businesses for the most part, right? And so it’s like, Yes, I wanted to build an alternative model that made basic supports much more accessible to a very specific niche within the small business community. And then there are always going to be those folks that. But still need the higher level, strategic, consultative planning, you know, whatever type of advice as well as the done for you services. So there’s still that level of clientele, but not everybody fits there, and the others don’t deserve to just not have access to the information resources, planning that they need, right? So I get it 100% get it.

Christopher Panagiotu  35:24

Yeah, well, and like, I’ll give you a prime example. So and yes, of course. Like, if my friends have a question, one thing I have said, and my friends respect me for this immensely, I will not, I love when clients become my friends, because a lot of them have, but I will not put a friend on as a client. Yes, because it’s like being a referee. You know, best case scenario, you do your job and like, of course, you’re supposed to make that call. Well, that’s impossible, because a ref is always going to be hated at some point in their career. For me, you see what I mean? 

Heather Pearce Campbell  36:01

The rest doesn’t control the game. Yeah, exactly. So you don’t get to control what happens to their scenario, yeah. 

Christopher Panagiotu  36:09

Well, like, I’ve had my friends ask me questions, and, of course, I’m going to do it, but I’ve told them I’m like, Look, dude, I’m never going to take $1 from you, like, if you want to buy my book, great. And that’s, I guess, a little bit different, but like, there was a buddy of mine who reached out. He’s like, Hey, I’m young this morning. I’m trying to figure out, like, how to maximize my wealth, all this fun stuff. And I’m like, Okay, here’s the deal. I have no problem answering these questions, but you are going to gain a whole hell of a lot more value if you actually read my book and then come with questions from the book, because then by the time you come to me and I can talk to you at a high level, by that point, you have no questions anymore for the rest of your life, and you’re saving hundreds of 1000s of dollars. And granted, this kid is very mature for his age, at like, 19 or 20, and he’s a friend, he’s employee of one of my friends, and, of course, I’ll just give him the time of day, because the most, one of the most valuable assets that you and I have is your goodwill. It’s your character. You compound that the money will follow totally.

Heather Pearce Campbell  37:18

Oh yeah, it’s the relationship building just the factor of getting to know people where they can’t help but send people your way when they know you’re the right match for them, right?

Christopher Panagiotu  37:24

Yeah. And then people like one thing too, finance, like growing one’s net worth. If it was super easy, everyone would be fucking loaded. And it’s not that simple, but I’ll tell you, because people okay, here’s a prime example, because you mentioned this earlier, indirectly about like, why are people so intimidated to get into investing? Because people are like, what’s the best route? And so people will go, okay, Chris, should I have, and I’m just going to make this up, stock portfolio, a mutual fund, portfolio, index fund. Should I have? Real Estate? Should I private equity? Should I bond? You know what the answer is, yes, yes.

Heather Pearce Campbell  38:12

That’s right. Be in the game. Be in the game. Yes, yeah.

Christopher Panagiotu  38:17

But then you’ve got to figure out, like, you know. And again, obviously, due to time constraints, I’ll keep it brief, but like, people then go, Oh, but I don’t know how I feel about investing. Well, guess what? That’s one of the worst questions you can ask. In fact, like, statistically speaking, it is the worst question for an advisor to ask, and I can back it. So like, I’m going to pretend, right, that you come into my office and let’s say you’re just out of college. Okay, by the way, if I didn’t know you, I would say, okay, I can see that you just came out of college. So you’re welcome, right?

Heather Pearce Campbell  38:54

It’s the extra pounds, yeah, it keeps that face young.

Christopher Panagiotu  38:58

And so for you, and I’m just going to role play here. You’ve never invested. So maybe naturally you’re just more conservative.

Heather Pearce Campbell  39:06

Right? Hesitant, not sure. Yeah. 

Christopher Panagiotu  39:09

So according to really bylaws in our industry, when someone says that, guess what I can do for you, I can provide you only conservative investments to match your emotion, cash, savings, bonds, CDs. So from an investment standpoint, I’m matching how you feel, but from an actual planning standpoint, it is an egregiously aggressive plan, because now you have to go above and beyond to save all that money, because you won’t be earning as much. But if I just said, Okay, this is what we’re going to do, and we’re going to invest it, you know, long term again, I’m bullet point from a short term standpoint in our industry that is deemed an aggressive risk tolerance, but if you actually go off of planning principles, that’s one of the most conservative plans in the world, because in the long run. You don’t have to save as much as your money is making you more. And that’s totally about this business.

Heather Pearce Campbell  40:05

Oh, isn’t that fascinating? So this is so I mean, first of all, I did not know that if you ask somebody the question and get the answer, then the only like that. So that’s news to me, if you’re listening crazy. That is so fascinating, because one of the things that I teach a lot about through my coaching, through my conversations with people, is that it is so important to choose advisors based on where you’re going, not based on where you’re at. You choose like because and even, for example, like clients that I work with that are working with CPAs, this is a really scenario happens over and over and over. It’s a classic example of of a mismatch between working with an advisor who’s going to really support you on on your plan and where you’re going, versus just kind of keeping you the same where you’re at. A lot of CPAs are so conservative, and they’re not strategic. For small businesses, they’re going to look at their budget and go, Oh, based on where you’re at, like, No, I would not recommend even forming an LLC. I would not like you don’t need to do, and they’re giving them terrible advice from the standpoint of planning, from the standpoint of what actually works when you’re optimizing your business for profits, for, let’s be clear, for a certain amount of risk, but also for actually making money. And so constantly I have to tell people like, fire your professionals. Fire your if they are not actively supporting and pushing you to get to where you want to go, like you’re working with the wrong people.

Christopher Panagiotu  41:50

Oh, yeah. Oh and dude, I could rip the industry a new one on. So I had a conversation this morning, okay? Or excuse me, this afternoon, right before this call, this guy’s selling his business three and a half million. He gets another one and a half next year indemnity, so capital gains and then liquidating rentals for the next four years. And guard, he answering him, you know, he’s got retirement plans. It’s an intermediate sum of money. Like, I wrap my hands around that, that is a complex situation. I’m like, Dude, give me this and it’s between me. I don’t know if I’m gonna get him. It’s between me and one of the other big firms, Merrill Lynch, and he texted me yesterday, okay? And he goes, Hey, I got this question, like, how am I gonna pay for this tax next year? Like, are there any strategies? I’m talking to my guy, and he’s going back to his team and running all this analysis. I’m like, You got like, 10 seconds in a napkin, because, like, I can tell you this, and I told him, like, it took me 30 seconds. He’s, like, really, that’s it. I go, Yeah, that’s it. And then, and this is what sparks this. Okay, so in our industry, let’s say you have a moderate risk tolerance. According to our industry, that means you have to have a blend between stocks and bonds, and you have to hold that constant. There are so many things wrong with that. I like, we do not have enough time for that. Okay. And so for me, I’m like, That’s not…

Heather Pearce Campbell  43:15

I can say. And not even being in the funny like that is not going to get you to where you need to go. 

Christopher Panagiotu  43:20

No, well, let me, let me rephrase it this way. Okay, obviously, interest rates are rising now. They may pull back a little bit, but like, if you go over 30 years, interest rates are pretty predictable. So you’re telling me, because someone has a tickle in their pickle, that they want to feel good about their portfolio, that over time, I need to have less in the market, which is less in ownership of businesses by more. IOUs that as interest rates rise, those do lose value just to make you feel good. That is the dumbest shit I’ve ever heard in my life. Ever, like ever. And I’ve heard some dumb stuff because I say some stupid stuff, and that’s top five, because I know there’s, there’s an actual study on this, by the way, Robert Arnaud 2014 target date funds. He wrote this article on the peril of target date funds. Target date funds are exactly what I just told you, and they’re the easiest thing to sell, which is why they’re popular. You take your date and you look at your retirement date, and over time, it gets more quote, unquote conservative. He tested it and said, Let me flip the idea on its head. If you flipped the idea on its head, you would actually have 22% more income in retirement, as opposed to listening to traditional financial advice, dude. Like, I tell people all the time that have an advisor that come to me. I mean, you really poke the bear on this. So I just need to get this out. They’ll go, well, you haven’t asked me about risk tolerance. I go, Yeah, because I don’t care. It comes at the very end. So I’m just going to use you as an example. Okay, so you come to me, I know, from a planning standpoint, maybe you’re just, you know, you have a behavioral bias towards real estate. You had a bad taste in your mouth. I won’t use that with alternatives, private equity credit. You’re all good. You’ve got stock portfolio, okay, but out of the stock portfolio, you just you are a little bit more anxious, and I don’t knock that for you, right? I’m like, Okay, so a concentrated stock portfolio probably isn’t going to be your thing. Maybe a mutual fund, your index fund portfolio, but investments come and go, your strategy still remains the same, and I still know in the long run you are going to be okay, but that’s where the risk comes into play, and people front load that I needed to get that out. That felt really good.

Heather Pearce Campbell  45:48

No, well, it’s, you know, I think it’s really important to talk about, like, how things work in industries and and especially in ways that do not serve right? It’s one of the things, like, I talk regularly, even in the legal world, about breaking the black box legal model. I hate it. I hate that it’s so hard for people, both individual consumers and small business consumers, to get their needs met right, like we have to change the model. And I think what you’re talking about is really important, and the way that you break it down and make things actually feel accessible to people. You know, like the 30 seconds in a napkin is the way that we help people make better decisions. Yeah, yes.

Christopher Panagiotu  46:35

You know, people laugh at the the napkin conversation. I’m going to say I have written a dozen financial plans on a napkin at the airport, because any and you get this all the time, probably it doesn’t matter what you or I actually do professionally. But anytime you say you are an author, and they ask what it is about, or a podcast host, and they ask what it’s about, they just tell you their entire like, It’s wild. And I’ve had people when I’m just like, bro, I’m just trying to, like, I just want to go on my trip, but, like, I can’t not help in very similar, like, of course, and I go, you don’t get like, a piece of paper and a pen. Just tell me. And he’s like, Well, don’t you need like, software? I’m like, No, it’s like, well, why I go? Because I’m not an asshole, like, I know what I know, and I’m basically going to my book in terms the map.

Heather Pearce Campbell  47:29

Yeah, here’s the map I know. And this is the thing is, like, I also feel like, if you’re a person who can see your industry clearly and create your own version of a map that makes sense, that helps people break it down. Like, I give away my map and all my free trainings. Like, here it is. You want to know about what it takes to protect your business legally. Here’s the map. Like, yeah, you could have paid me for that. And I, you know, and here’s the next level of the map. You want support, actually, you know, doing a full assessment of your business. I’m going to walk you through the map. I’ll just do the work, asking you the questions and walking you through the map. But, yeah, you want me to charge you 2500 for that, sure. Let’s get started, right? You? Oh, you want me to walk you through the map and do the things on the map, right? 25,000 let’s get started. It’s the same map, right? I give it, and it is because I just want people to make better decisions. But it sounds like that. I mean, you’ve got a similar approach, of like, here’s the bullet points of what you need to know, here’s the map, and it’s, you know, we’re gonna hopefully influence people who need just the educational influence to make better decisions. And then we will also get to serve some, some of the folks that are really serious about it and are like, Okay, ready? Let’s go.

Christopher Panagiotu  48:49

Yeah, I can sum it up, like perfectly with like two thoughts. Our second oldest client is 90. Gosh, is he 93 healthy as an ox, as long as I yeah, as long as I’ve known him, every time we start a meeting, he’ll go, Chris, Hey, how’s it going? So anyway, I don’t have much time, and I remember thinking, like, three years into our relationship, and I’m gonna obviously remove his name due to confidentiality, but let’s just call it Joe. So Joe, why do you always say that? And he looked at me, and he goes, you know how old I am, I don’t have time. I don’t have time to waste. So, like, let’s just get this done. And he goes, let me tell you something, kid, you need to have this mentality now because but you are going to blink and you’re going to be me if you’re lucky enough to be as old as I am. And I’m like, Whoa. Like, it just hit me so hard. Now my mom love her to death. She’s like, Chris, you’re so impatient. And I’m like, no. So for me, my thing is, if someone comes in and you’re just like, gonna just suck the time. There’s a difference between just sucking the time out and now you’re just being annoying, versus Hey, I really just want to learn this and be prudent, because I’m trying to make an educated decision on going with you or not. I respect that. And I get how emotionally, like that business owner, okay, he’s super anxious about the change I get that. I respect that. But if you’re just going to be someone that’s just going to kind of like, Dick you around just to do it, I don’t have time for that, you know. Or if someone’s like, man, you know, your fee is super hot, no, it’s not like, then, then, if it’s so high, buy the book, do it all on your own. And they’re like, but that’s not what I’m here. I’m like, Oh, so you are trying to get as much out of me as possible and pay as little as possible. This conversation is over. Goodbye. You know, I just don’t have time for it. I know you don’t either. You’re just a lot nicer.

Heather Pearce Campbell  50:56

No, for me, it’s really interesting because I also get super irritated around inefficiencies. And this gets back to, like, people have different personalities, right? They’re expert personalities. They’re optimizers who care about, like, improving systems and processes. There’s catalysts that are just like, let’s make this decision and just be done with it, and just get things moving, you know? And then there’s relators, and I’ve talked about the these categories before, I can always tell what client is sitting in, like, where they fit and where the conversation is going to go. And are they somebody that needs to go, like, look at all their options. Like, maybe this guy that you’re talking about who maybe is a little bit of an expert based brain, he needs to, like, really feel good about doing his due diligence before making the decision, I’m going to be like, oh, this person has to go think about it and look at options in the marketplace, and they’ll be back in a week, you know. And that’s often how it goes. And I do have less and less patience for folks like, like, what you’re talking about, where it’s like, Come on, let’s get to the point, you know, and if you can’t it, just, here’s the map, go do it on your own. And so I completely relate to that efficiency standpoint. Because we don’t, we don’t get more time, like time is, time is the thing that we have. It is the most important resource that we have right money, all this other stuff aside, like, time to do what we want with our lives, I think, is really what we want. And so for people who are time wasters, oh, it’s like the most painful thing. It’s the most painful thing.

Christopher Panagiotu  52:40

No, it’s off. You know, it’s funny, too. So this indirectly relates. So ever since we had Alec Ingold, the fullback of Miami Dolphins, on our show, we’ve actually talked to athletes as clients. And that’s a totally different mindset. Because, yeah, your career is shorter than most. Just by definition, some of these guys are making millions of dollars, and so I ask them all the time, what is your primary goal when it comes to your money, what is the top thing? And I’m not trying to put them on the spot. My whole thing is I want people to think. I want people to profoundly think about this stuff. And you know, they’ll say, like, hey, I want to take care of my mom. Care of my mom, or I want to do, you know, I want to buy a house or whatever. Like, no, no, your first job when it comes to any dollar that you make, is to replace your expenses that you need as fast as humanly possible. Because the moment you do that, and you know you could walk away from retirement and not earn another penny. What happens? Your health will get better, because you’re going to sleep a whole lot better. You’re probably going to make a lot more because your job is directly related to your overall bodily health and mental health, and then with that, you’re probably going to play even longer. It’s no different than a business owner. If you take distributions and you’re reinvesting outside and you know that you could sell your business for a penny, and you know that you’re statistically golden. Guess what you have? Lori Barkman will totally agree with me on this. You have all of the ability in the world to reinvest everything back in your business and grow it 10 times. It 10 times. You could just walk away. You could go and hire a CEO and then just like cash checks and make it rain. You could be in a sales meeting and the guy or gal across the table from you goes, I want to buy it for a million. And you go, nope, too low. Why? Because I fucking said so, and it doesn’t, it literally doesn’t matter, and everything else improves. That’s why, like, people are like, Oh my gosh, you know, it’s not all about the money. It’s not. And I agree with that, but good God, if you don’t have that base, you know, when I was interviewing the guys on Mind pump which those episodes are coming out in a couple weeks, depending on when this is out, may already be out, Health is the foundation to your worth. I’m fully on board with that. Right behind it, like uncomfortably close, is the money side of things, because if you can’t afford to do anything, then your health will deteriorate. Because sometimes you have it takes money to make money. It’s the same thing. So, you know, I just wish people understood that framework with money, and that’s why I get so passionate about, you know, preaching the financial word, so to speak. 

Heather Pearce Campbell  55:35

Well, I love it, because I think we’re sold a lot of fault narratives around money, you know, the whole like money can’t buy happiness, bullshit. I’m not, I’m not saying money is happiness. I remember having this conversation with my daughter, who, at the time, was five, you know, and we were talking about this money can’t buy happiness phrase, and she’s like, mom, but money buys you things and things make you happy. And I thought, you know, that’s a simplified version of it, right? Yeah, money buys you your time back. Money buys you your health back. Money buys you these things that completely revolutionize your ability to enjoy life, right? That’s it. 

Christopher Panagiotu  56:23

It is. You know, I I’m not saying like I’m a fan or not a fan, because he’s a controversial guy, but I remember, there was an interview with Andrew Tate, and he was saying something like, I love being fucking loaded, basically. And again, I’m like, Oh, I probably wouldn’t have said it that way, but then when you listen to what he’s saying, it’s more of oh, I mean, okay, I would have said it differently, but I get what he’s saying. Because as you do hit those different levels, there comes a point where there it’s more than enough, but how fulfilling is it? And I’m just going to use you again, Heather, when you can look at yourself and go, I’m good, my kids are good, my kids are good, my kids are good, and then what happens is, you actually get to see the world for what it really is, and the world is a truly beautiful place. But most people are living beneath the clouds.

Heather Pearce Campbell  57:17

It’s true. They’re in survival mode, right? They just don’t have the time freedom to live how they want to live. It’s huge. Yeah, it’s huge. Yeah, yeah, no. And you know, ultimately, all of us who are service professionals or experts, or whatever we’re in it to change lives. And, like, just now I was thinking, like, really, what it boils down to the service that I provide is giving my clients time back taking problems off their plate that they no longer have to solve, have to worry, right? That’s time back in their life that they can spend living growing their business. What like, whatever it is anyways, super important conversation. Yeah, I love what you do. I love how you break it down, the fact that you know, really, I wish financial information and support was more available for all of us, right? So important for those like you who are there, educating, giving, building resources that are so accessible. So a big thank you, and shout out for for all the resources you’ve built, which is a perfect segue into, what are those? Where are you? Where do you show up online? How do you like for people to connect with you?

Christopher Panagiotu  58:30

Awesome. Well, and again, Heather, thank you for having me on the show. And to your listeners that are further intrigued by the Captain CAPitalize. The best place to start for the brand is capitalizepodcast.com, that’s where you can go to the links for my my book, soon to be books. We got another book coming out later this year. My master class, soon to be master classes, we got another one coming out later this year. That’s the podcast hub. If you want to connect with me on social media, Instagram, Twitter or X, LinkedIn, and then, professionally speaking, CapitalizeYourFinances.com. That is the business. And you know, our average client’s net worth is a couple million bucks, but our minimum is half a million. And we accept people like I said, that are fun and are willing to learn.

Heather Pearce Campbell  59:18

I love that. That’s your first criteria, folks. If you’re not fun, go away. Just kidding. We’ve got some great referrals for you. Just kidding. No, Chris, we will happily share all your links, folks, if you’re listening, pop over to the show notes page. You can find all the links to connect with Chris on social media, at his website, links to his book and more at legalwebsitewarrior.com/podcast, again, look for Chris Panagiotu’s episode, and you’ll find everything there. Chris, such a pleasure to connect with you. I knew it was going to be fun, a conversation, and. I feel like there’s probably a part two to this, where we get into, just in my mind, even some of the richer parts of living, which, you know, clearly, you’ve had your own health journey. I know you mentioned Crohn’s, we didn’t even get into that. Like, you know, relationships, like all the things that make for really robust life. But it’s clear you care a lot about those and are having interesting conversations about those things on your podcast as well. So folks, pop over. We will share the link to Chris’s podcast also and go follow Chris and join him in some of his conversations on that podcast. So Chris, great to have you here. What final advice, tips, takeaway? What do you want to leave our listeners with today? 

Christopher Panagiotu  1:00:43

Compound your wealth as prudently, efficiently and hopefully quickly as possible, because then your only goal is to be there for your family.

Heather Pearce Campbell  1:00:56

So good, bam. Exclamation mark after that one huge Chris, I appreciate you. Really look forward to connecting again soon.

Christopher Panagiotu  1:01:05

Absolutely. I will come on anytime.

GGGB Outro  1:01:09

Thank you for joining us today on the Guts, Grit and Great Business® podcast. We hope that we’ve added a little fuel to your tank, some coffee to your cup and pep in your step to keep you moving forward in your own great adventures. For key takeaways, links to any resources mentioned in today’s show and more, see the show notes which can be found at www.legalwebsitewarrior.com/podcast. Be sure to subscribe to the podcast and if you enjoyed today’s conversation, please give us some stars and a review on Apple podcasts, Spotify or wherever you get your podcast so others will find us too. Keep up the great work you are doing in the world and we’ll see you next week.