With Nick Hutchison, a visionary author and the driving force behind BookThinkers, a growing 7-figure marketing agency that seamlessly bridges the worlds of authors and readers. Over the past seven years, Nick has built a platform that reaches over 1,000,000 people each month. His podcast, BookThinkers: Life-Changing Books, ranks in the top 2% globally, featuring engaging conversations with renowned authors like Grant Cardone, Lewis Howes, and Alex Hormozi. Through his innovative approach, Nick has helped hundreds of authors expand their influence and grow their revenue, offering services like video production, podcast booking, and social media brand building.

Nick’s passion for personal growth and his commitment to helping readers take meaningful action inspired his book, Rise of the Reader. In it, he outlines practical strategies for developing reading habits that lead to real-world application and transformation. As a speaker, author, and entrepreneur, Nick continues to empower millions of readers, guiding them to harness the power of books and rise to their fullest potential.

Join our conversation as Nick Hutchison shares how setting SMART goals for reading can transform how we retain and implement lessons from books. He shares his own journey with “Rise of the Reader,” offering actionable strategies for personal growth, while also discussing the balance between work, personal life, and the impact of technology on our well-being. Tune in to discover how feedback, books, and small steps can drive meaningful change in both business and life.

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Takeaways & quotes you don’t want to miss from this episode:

• How reframing failure as a learning experience accelerates growth.
• Why setting SMART goals before reading a book helps you take action?
• The value of reading fewer books but applying more from each one.
• The importance of aligning actions with long-term goals to avoid burnout.
• Why there’s a book for every problem—learn from others to grow.

“Failure is the best teacher. And when you fail fast and fail hard but then reflect, iterate, change, and try something new, good things start to happen.”

-Nick Hutchison

Check out these highlights:

• 09:09 Nick shares an encounter with a fan that made him realize how a simple feedback is crucial for creators.
• 15:02 How Nick’s journey into reading during a sales internship started.
• 20:29 What is the danger of reading many books without applying their lessons?
• 38:39 Nick’s story about a failed mobile app project, and how it became a major learning experience.
• 44:17 Hear Nick’s final takeaway…

How to get in touch with Nick on Social Media:

Imperfect Show Notes

We are happy to offer these imperfect show notes to make this podcast more accessible to those who are hearing impaired or those who prefer reading over listening. While we would love to offer more polished show notes, we are currently offering an automated transcription (which likely includes errors, but hopefully will still deliver great value), below:

GGGB Intro 00:00

Here’s what you get on today’s episode of Guts, Grit and Great Business®… 

Nick Hutchison  00:04

I think, in the real world of entrepreneurship, failure is the best teacher. And when you feel fast and you feel hard, but then you reflect and you iterate and you change, and then you try something new, and you’re connected to a purpose which sort of keeps you going outside of just money, then good things start to happen.

GGGB Intro 00:23

The adventure of entrepreneurship and building a life and business you love, preferably at the same time is not for the faint of heart. That’s why Heather Pearce Campbell is bringing you a dose of guts, grit and great business stories that will inspire and motivate you to create what you want in your business and life. Welcome to the Guts, Grit and Great Business® podcast where endurance is required. Now, here’s your host, The Legal Website Warrior®, Heather Pearce Campbell.

Heather Pearce Campbell  00:51

Alrighty, welcome. I am Heather Pearce Campbell, The Legal Website Warrior®. I’m an attorney and legal coach based here in Seattle, Washington, serving online information entrepreneurs throughout the US and around the world. Welcome to another episode of Guts, Grit and Great Business®. I am super excited to be hosting Nick Hutchison today. Welcome Nick.

Nick Hutchison  01:18

I’m excited to be here. Heather, can I ask you the first question today? 

Heather Pearce Campbell  01:21

Totally. 

Nick Hutchison  01:22

All right, let’s do it. So at the time of this recording, it’s early 2024 so I’m curious, what was the best book you read last year? What comes to mind? 

Heather Pearce Campbell  01:32

I’m going to tell you. It’s a book that I’m rereading right now. And actually, I launched a book club at the end of last year, but it started this year for the very reason of making sure I got through some of my top list of books, but in a way where we also digest them and talk about like, what does this mean for our lives? Does it change anything about the way that we’re living or parenting or showing up, as, you know, entrepreneurs or humans or whatever? So the book that I am just in love with, and it was so good i i read it actually audio. Listened to it at the end of last year because I had a whole bunch of driving time, but I’m reading it as book number two in this book club, is the Power of Fun by Catherine Price. Have you heard of that? Or have you looked into it?

Nick Hutchison  02:22

I’m not sure if I’ve heard of it, but I know I haven’t read it yet.

Heather Pearce Campbell  02:26

Okay? I think every human needs to read it. The very quick overview is that she basically goes into the history of fun. Like, who knew there was a history of fun, right? Researches like our relationship to fun over time that goes back centuries, and basically the Industrial Revolution was the first significant change in the way that we relate to and have fun. And it’s because the industrial revolution changed our relationship to time. We started valuing time from like a dollars per hour standpoint, whether it was production output or labor hours or whatever, right? And we stopped relating to our work in the sense of like task completion, like I’ve got to till the field today, right? We went from like subsistence farming and task completion, like creating a quilt, or, you know, fixing some shoes, or whatever it is that we were doing where things actually felt complete, so that we could finish our day, we could transition to actually living the rest of our life. That kind of went away and so and then that got sped up by the technology age. So anyways, it’s a fascinating book. I had no idea, actually what I was getting myself into when I decided to read this book. And you realize, like you look so much more closely at your relationship to not only digital technology in our lives, but to time and your relationships to people and explore this question of like, am I having true fun, or is it this fake fun? Because we have this dopamine problem, related to technology, related to quick wins and quick hits and and being sold fake fun basically everywhere that we look, versus the the true experience of true fun. And then it goes into this whole thing of like, how do you figure out what is what, and how do you begin to identify areas in your life where you can make changes and create more of true fun, and relationship to longevity, relationship to health, relationship to whether our relationships stay alive, right? Anyways, it’s a massively important book, and really, really good.

Nick Hutchison  04:44

Yeah, that sounds right up my alley. I think about and resonate with so many of those different subjects. One of the things that you just reminded me of, there’s a great book called Blue Collar Cash by this guy, Ken Rusk, and Ken is an advocate for, so we’ll call them alternatives to college in the traditional sense. He talks about Blue Collar trades, skilled types of labor, military things like that. And one of the reasons he’s such an advocate for working with your hands is for what he calls a stand back moment, just like you’re talking about tilling the fields. You can see your progression after a day’s worth of work, and then ultimately the entire field is done. And that’s a stand back moment that in this age of computer work and intellectual work, we don’t often get to see a physical representation of the work that we’ve completed. And I do think that, you know, I think a lot about my relationship with time. In fact, I try to optimize for enjoying the passage of time. That’s sort of how I define my purpose. So that book sounds like it’s right up my alley. I will definitely have to read it.

Heather Pearce Campbell  05:52

It’s so good. And whether I tend to be much more of an actual book reader, like I will take notes I mark the hell out of my books, I do all of that. And for certain books, I will actually shift to creating my own cliff notes at the end of the book, so that I can go back and be like, Oh, these are the highlights, right? So I get a lot of use out of my books, and my favorite ones I’ll reread. But even listening to the audio version was so powerful, because you could, like, stop and rewind and be like, Oh my gosh, I need to hear that section again and again, you know. And then you can make little notes as well on your phone, but highly recommend it. I love what you just said about this stand back moment, I think. And obviously, people who’ve been listening to this podcast for a while, they know I live in the legal world, and in some ways, it feels like the never ending marathon of work, right? Like there is always more to be done, whether it’s for a particular client. I mean, yes, some projects come to an end, but my business is supporting the businesses of other people and other entrepreneurs, like unless their business is coming to an end, the work is ongoing, right? And it can create this false sense of urgency and, like, kind of, not, not really never enoughness, but, like, never getting to the finish line, right? And I think there is a big part of our brains that want to get to the finish line.

Nick Hutchison  07:19

Yeah, yeah. I think that is true. You know, It’s so interesting because I’ve read a lot about goal setting, and you know, what is sustainable versus what’s fleeting, and I think that a good balance of beginning with the end in mind, but also enjoying the process and making sure that the work you’re doing is sustainable. I think if you can balance, like, the objective, the outcome, and that motivates you, and you anticipate getting there, but also you love what you’re doing in the present moment. It’s like that seems to be the only sustainable way to keep doing what you do without burning out.

Heather Pearce Campbell  07:53

Oh, totally no. And I love that idea of, like, focusing on those two balancing perspectives. And I’m also reminded, like, for people that are doing so much, let’s just call it like computer work or work that’s like, not really visually, all that tangible. You know, if you’re a consultant, you’re a coach, like, whatever, it’s not like you’re creating a painting. I do think like it is why I experience so much fulfillment, for example, like gardening or re landscaping, or painting a room in my house, right? It is one of those experiences where you’re like, you get done, and it’s like, oh, you know, you can see this completed project. And also the transformation, I think so much of it is about the transformation from point A to point B. And so anyways…

Nick Hutchison  08:40

I have a quick story for you, and I think that it’ll sound kind of funny when I say what I’m about to say, but then the story will make sense. So as it relates to hosting a podcast or creating online content that’s educational, thought leadership, whatever you want to call it, sometimes that’s not very forgiving, because you’re not always collecting feedback in real time from the people consuming your content, right? So I was on my honeymoon last year, and…

Heather Pearce Campbell  09:09

Congratulations. First of all, I have to insert congratulations.

Nick Hutchison  09:12

Thank you so much. And we hopped around to a few different locations, one of which was Dubrovnik, Croatia and Dubrovnik is a small city by itself. I think it has 30 or 40,000 people, and we were in an area even more remote. It was this little beach town outside of Dubrovnik, right? So I don’t know what the population was, but it was tiny. And my wife saw this bar, this restaurant across this little waterway, so we walked over to it, and on the way over to this bar to have a couple of drinks, we passed our rest a little restaurant that sat on the water, and she said to me something like, Hey on our walk back, let’s stop by and make a reservation for tomorrow night. I’d love to eat there. Like, what a cool view. And so we stayed a little bit later than we wanted to, and on the walk back, the restaurant was closed. And once you get to know me, you know, I don’t really take no for an answer, and I always look for an opportunity. So I just went into the restaurant, even though it was closed, and I found a few people that were actually cleaning up. So I said, Hey, excuse me. I know you’re closed, but can I make a reservation for tomorrow night? And this guy, again, I’m in the middle of nowhere, really. He looks up and he says, Yeah, of course, by the way, I’m a huge fan. And I was like, taken back for a second. I had a couple of drinks. I was like, Did I mishear that? Like, are you? Do you think I’m somebody different? So anyway, I said, What do you mean? You’re a big fan. And he said, of book thinkers, of your company, of your podcast, of the content that you put out there. And I was totally taken back. I’m even getting goosebumps again talking about it. And then he went on to talk for 15 or 20 minutes with us about all of these very detailed things that I’ve said, or people that I’ve interviewed in the stories they’ve told over years and years and years worth of content, and how he’s used it to change his life. And the major lesson that I got from that experience was that impact is only felt through feedback, especially if you’re doing work like this, you don’t know who’s listening and applying what they’re learning and their lives are changing unless they tell you. So my message to kind of be a little funny with it is, if you are listening to this podcast and you’re consistently learning from Heather, reach out and let her know what kind of an impact she’s having, because when you are producing content like this, there’s no stand back moment where you’re like, I did that. I changed that life, unless somebody reaches out and tells you about it. So that’s a little call to action, to like and subscribe, but also reach out and review it. Let Heather know what she’s done for you.

Heather Pearce Campbell  11:45

Oh, I love that. First of all, it’s a awesome story. I love that you’re in the middle of nowhere and somebody’s like, rock on with your bad self. That’s so great. And then yes, thank you also for that invitation for feedback. I agree. And as a podcaster, especially, like, I remember launching and being like, I don’t know who’s gonna hear this. I don’t know if they’re gonna stick around, right? I don’t know if it’s gonna have any impact. And then starting to get some little kind of trickle in feedback, you’re right that even like, one little email is so meaningful, right? Because then you go, Oh, that story made a difference for somebody, or that particular expert said something that literally just changed this person’s life, right? And that’s it, and that’s also and by the way, that’s happened a couple times where, like, I even had an old college roommate reach out and say, Heather, you had this episode with a guest that talked about this forgiveness process that you can do with a parent even after they passed. And I thought, you know, and even now, I get goosebumps like, oh, the weight of that, of having a strained relationship and then losing somebody, but realizing you can still totally transform that relationship like that was not something she’d even considered before, right? So it’s like stuff like that, and people that that come into your life that you know, you’re like, wow, I had no idea that they were on the other end of this podcast, and then it made a difference. So yes, it’s huge. And by the way up, over, if you’ve been listening to my podcast for a while, hop over and join Nick on his podcast, right? And let’s get to because Nick, you jumped right into a question for me. I’d love to get to introducing you to my audience. For those of you listening, if you don’t already know Nick at Book Thinkers. Nick Hutchison is the visionary force behind BookThinkers, a thriving 7-figure marketing agency bridging authors and readers. In just over 7 years, he has cultivated a platform reaching over 1,000,000 people monthly and hosts the top 2% global podcast, “BookThinkers: Life-Changing Books,” featuring interviews with renowned authors like Grant Cardone and Lewis Howes. Big shout out to Lewis Howes, who is a client of mine. Nick’s platform and services have empowered countless authors to reach millions of readers, driving substantial revenue growth. His services encompass video production, podcast booking, and social media brand building. With a mission to inspire readers to take action, Nick authored “Rise of the Reader,” delving into mastering reading habits and applying newfound knowledge to unlock potential. So Nick, I know the first time we connected, and even just now before we went live on the podcast, right, you’re on this mission to change the way, first of all, people behave when they’re reading books and what they do during or after, but also events, right? The same concept applies, you know, you and I both live in the event space as well, to the way that we show up and attend events and whether we do anything differently in our life after that. Talk to me about where that is mission started for you?

Nick Hutchison  15:02

Well, I was not much of a reader growing up, and I was introduced to books during a sales internship that I had between my junior and senior years of college, and then I went full time with that same company, and I fell in love with reading because I was in this full time software sales position. I was reading books on sales and marketing, negotiation, persuasion, communication, whatever, applying them to my role, and at the time, experiencing a lot of financial success for an early 20 year old kid. But despite how much I would promote these books and how much credit I was giving to them for the success that I was having my friends and family. They weren’t really interested at the time, and so I went to social media, and I started posting about the books I was reading back in 2017 and before you know it, there was an audience. Now, this was before book talk, or Bookstagram, or whatever you want to call it. This was just me talking about books, and I had no intention of taking this into a full time agency or anything. I was just sharing what I was reading. But as I built an audience, authors started to reach out, and they would offer to pay me for book reviews. Right? I had an audience of engaged buyers. They had a book that needed to be promoted and marketed and sold, and so I was all of a sudden incentivized to continue to grow my audience. Now, along the way, I accidentally became this resource for people to answer all these questions related to the personal development or nonfiction business book process. So over time, as people are asking questions, I’d go research the answers. And eventually I became, sort of again, this subject matter expert on retaining and implementing more from the books that we read. So as I went to as I started going to events as well in the personal development or entrepreneurship space, I realized that people have the same problems reading books and choosing not to take action, but also attending events and still choosing not to take action. They’re overwhelming. We’re drinking from a fire hose. We have such big, grandiose ideas of what we can do with this information that ultimately we procrastinate and then end up failing to do anything with it. And so, you know, the same person goes to the same Tony Robbins event twice a year for 20 years and doesn’t change their behavior. Now, they feel really good while they’re there, but, like, I want to help them take more action. So that’s sort of the backstory as to why I started to become passionate. I think about taking action. Like, the problem that I want to solve is inaction, and people don’t take action because they have poor strategies. And I want to, like, kind of slide in there and help fix that.

Heather Pearce Campbell  17:42

I love that so much. A couple of things come to mind based on that. One is the concept that you just said about, like, information overload and overwhelm, and then people just kind of stay in this stymied state, right? The power of fun. There’s like a section in there on this topic directly, because you take books and you take events, but you’re layering them over modern life, which already puts us into information overload. Yes, right. And so you you have all of this competition for your basically your ability to digest and implement this stuff. It’s a huge, huge topic. A friend of mine, who I really, really enjoy in the online space, just posted earlier this week around reading a book a week is a is terrible advice. And he left it there, right? And all these people are like, what? Why? You know, jumping on the train. Like, why is this terrible advice? And he’s like, because you don’t do anything with it. He’s like, read less and do more, right? Which I thought, you know, is there a way sustainably to do that, right, especially for those of us who really love reading? 

Nick Hutchison  18:59

And there definitely is a way to sustainably do that. I mean, I was on that end of the spectrum of just reading for the sake of reading X number of books a year for a while. And I don’t know what it is. It’s maybe the competitive social media aspect of it. Or you’ll see these like crazy studies, the average CEO reads 52 books a year. Or Bill Gates spends a week a year reading 1000 books, and Warren Buffett spends 82% of his time reading. And so it creates this idea that somehow reading is the end goal. That’s the box that you need to check. You should optimize for 52 books, or 104 books. But that’s a vanity metric, because if you read and you choose not to implement the information, I would argue that that’s closer to a form of entertainment than it is education or behavior change. And so a few years ago, I started to optimize for something different. Instead of checking the boxes, I was looking to take at least one or two actions in. Implement them, truly test them, measure the results from every book that I read instead and so to kind of summarize your point, I would also say that effectively implementing one book that you know solves a problem that you’re currently facing or builds a skill that you need to get to the next level is more valuable than reading 52 books and choosing not to take action on them, and I think that that will catch the attention, hopefully, of some people in the audience who are like, Yep, that’s me. I’m guilty of that.

Heather Pearce Campbell  20:29

Oh, totally No. And it’s so interesting, because I think a lot of time, also in this state of overwhelm, people think, well, like, I can’t do all this stuff. I can’t, you know what I mean, it just feels so big. They don’t do any of it. But it’s like even in the the power of fun, and I have a business coach, and he really works, it’s a lot of accountability, right? And also a lot of just reflecting and translating back to me, you know, what I’m noticing, and behavioral patterns and stuff. And one of the things that I did recently, and it’s also an idea from the power of fun is like going offline Friday after work hours, like phone off and leaving it off, either, like, for the weekend, or at least through, like all of the day Saturday and then Sunday morning, turning it back on. Right? That one small thing, like, you’re unplugging basically for an evening and a day. But I thought, I can do that. Like, can I go through a full digital detox where I’m just like, never on social media or never doing this other stuff? Like, no, I’m probably not ready for that, even though, ultimately, maybe it’s something I want to do. But can I unplug for a day and a half? Yes, right, so the experiment the last couple weekends is what happens when I do that, and it’s been so fun, it’s been so freeing. Like last Saturday, you know, totally, completely unplugged, and I ended up just unplugging for the whole weekend, not just Saturday. Like I spent the entire day painting with my kids. We dragged canvases and all these paints out the closet, and we made a huge mess, and they had a blast, right? Yeah. And it was, like, free from the pressure of time or communications or emails hanging over, right? And so it was like, one small thing that I could do, but it speaks to what you’re talking about, like, what is one or two things that I can take from this book and implement.

Nick Hutchison  22:18

Yeah, it helps you stay in the present moment. So one of the things that I teach like so we can give everybody an actionable strategy today, this is one of the things I teach in my book, Rise of the Reader or at events, is to set a SMART goal. I mean, most of us are familiar with the SMART goal. Acronym, S stands for Specific. M stands for measurable. So what’s not being measured can’t be managed, right? That’s the Peter Drucker aphorism. A stands for attainable. So we set a realistic goal, like one or two things from each book, not change the world after one book. R stands for relevance, so you want to be emotionally connected again to solving a problem or building a skill or maybe satisfying a curiosity, and then T is time bound. You give yourself a deadline to take action, but you want it to be an attainable deadline, something that’s healthy, that doesn’t create a false sense of urgency. And so if I was reading the power of fun, I might, and I haven’t read the front cover back cover yet, table of contents, but I might say something like I’m looking to find and implement at least one strategy for incorporating more fun in my weekly routine by the end of February. So that’s specific. I know what I’m looking for. It’s measurable at the end of the experience that I find and implement one fun strategy that’s attainable, one thing, it’s relevant. Because who doesn’t want to have more fun, and it’s time bomb by the end of February. And so I’ll actually write my intention, my smart goal for each book on the inside cover, and then I’ll review it every time I read another chapter or two, so that I’m sharing my goal with the book, and the book can share just the actionable strategies back with me, because back when I used to read for the vanity metrics, I’d highlight anything fun, quotes, things that I wanted to look up, random facts, whatever it is those weren’t creating behavior change. But if I’m filtering for just one or two actions that I can implement, that’s what gets us closer to taking action.

Heather Pearce Campbell  24:16

I love that, and I particularly love the part about setting the goal even before you read the book, right? Yes, because then like you just mentioned, you’re reading it through a filter, looking for a very specific thing, which is very different than just reading it. 

Nick Hutchison  24:37

It is, yeah, we have that particular activating system, the RAS and and for everybody who’s driving and listening to this right now, it’s like, when I say yellow car, you’re like, Oh, I just saw a yellow car. Did I manifest it? Like, no, but now you’re filtering for it. And so I think the same thing happens with these books. You filter for just the information that you can implement. And everything else melts away, and it’s a beautiful way to read.

Heather Pearce Campbell  25:04

All right, let’s pause for a moment and hear from today’s sponsor. Are you an entrepreneur who is on track to make a million or more in revenue this year in your business? If so, your business is likely facing a host of legal issues that are right for support. And if you are like so many of my clients at this level, you are likely tired of taking unnecessary risks and a DIY approach to legal support in your business. You’re ready to tackle the mess of legal documents, six legal gaps that you have. You want to take care of your IP, your clients, your business, and avoid unnecessary conflict and risk in the process. If this is you, and beyond just being an entrepreneur, you are a catalyst and are committed to your mission and your impact in the world. I invite you to get in touch. You could be a fit for my catalyst club, a small business legal support program that I designed for my high level clients. Just like you, you can find out more at legalwebsitewarrior.com. Just click on the Work with Me tab to learn more about the catalyst club and other ways that I support my clients, a fabulous group of world changing entrepreneurs, I might add, you’ve done the initial legwork in your business. And now you want to soar. And you know that you can only go as high and as far as your legal foundation lets you go. So get in touch today, hop over to legalwebsitewarrior.com, click on the Work with Me tab. And if you have any questions, get in touch through the Contact link on my site, I look forward to connecting it would be a joy to support you on your path.

Heather Pearce Campbell  26:48

There was a book years ago that always comes to mind for me in a variety of ways, but it is and of course, now I’m gonna Tim. Oh my gosh, it’s…

Nick Hutchison  27:01

Tim Grover, Relentless?

Heather Pearce Campbell  27:03

No. Love is the killer app. I’ll look it up, but, and I’ll also post a link to it in the show notes. But it’s this concept, because for me, a huge part of my business, a huge part even of running a podcast, which, you know, is connecting with people, right? And I think so often, at least, I find so often when you’re reaching out to create genuine connections, like even through LinkedIn. LinkedIn is a platform I use a ton that I have found to be very helpful, from the standpoint of really creating a rich and amazing, like, network of folks up to really interesting things. Because I have a huge referral treat, right? I get to know my clients, and I get to know their needs, and other ways that I can support their business, just through connections, and I try really hard to make those for them. And I’m also kind of a hoarder of information and people. It’s just part of my nature. But the love is the killer app book talks about like, being of service people, to people, like, in a way that they’re not used to, and it’s just through, like, being genuinely interested in what they’re up to, how you can serve them through connections, etc, just how you can be a support in their network, versus trying to sell them something, versus, like, trying to fit them into a business strategy, or whatever you know to mean. And so I find that, like that is the most natural strategy that I engaged even before ever reading that book. But I think it’s partly why it resonated so strongly with me. And then he goes into ways that you can do it even better. You know, when people are looking for fast fixes, like, and I’m holding up my phone if you’re not watching the video, right, an app that will cure all the things or or magically make your life easier, or whatever, like, sometimes it’s just real life strategies about how you show up and behave, and you’re providing another really great example about this in relation to books like you know, there may not be an easy way through, but there’s definitely a more simple way through that will help you create much better results.

Nick Hutchison  27:12

Absolutely and apply that same framework to the events that you attend and watch them transform your life as well. I was up on stage, and I got this from my friend Kevin, but I’m up on stage, and I look at the audience, and I say, raise your hand if you’ve read The Seven Habits of Highly Effective People, and every hand goes up in the room. And then I say, Now, keep your hands up if I can call on you and you can name the seven habits. And every hand in the room goes down over 100 people. And I’m like, what you know, Kevin says this famously, but what is the point of reading or learning anything if you can’t even retain the simplest information from it? And so now, when I’m attending events like you want to be able to articulate your reason for being there and share your goal with the room everybody that you meet, so that the room everybody that you meet can help you fulfill it. So instead of showing up and taking notes on 1000 miscellaneous things, I might say, Hey, I’m looking to set up virtual coffees with five authors in the room. Do you know anybody that’s an author? Can you help me achieve that? Rather than just, oh, I’m excited to be here and blah, blah, blah, it’s just like no. Share. Share what you need help with, share what your specific goal is. And, you know, maybe your specific goal is, like, I’m looking for one strategy that I can leverage to pivot into a new industry, or whatever it is. Like, you can get pretty specific with these things.

Heather Pearce Campbell  30:33

There’s so much that’s good about that statement. And from the standpoint of, like, much bigger thinking, the universe loves clarity, right? Like, if you’re trying to achieve an outcome, clarity is what is going to get you there. And, like, speaking to that outcome, speaking so that other people, because the other reality is, we don’t do any of this on our own, right? So getting people to actually understand, like, Oh, this is what you’re looking for. Boom, people are so happy to help. They’re so happy to make that new connection. For you, it’s just the nature of being human.

Nick Hutchison  31:06

Yeah, yeah. It is very true that authenticity, the vulnerability, the openness, all of that.

Heather Pearce Campbell  31:13

Totally. So a couple additional questions for you, because obviously your brand book thinkers, and I think you mentioned before we went live, you’ve got an A team now. It’s an agency of like 10 people. You’re supporting over 100 authors a year. You just published your own book. Yes, congratulations. Tell us a little bit about that process, and I think that you used your own agency in the the launch and the advertising and marketing for that book

Nick Hutchison  31:43

I did. It was a lot of fun. I put everything to the test. So yeah, the agency that I have, we’ve got 10 people on the team, like you said, we’re working with a lot of authors every year, helping them promote and market their books. And I decided to write Rise of the Reader: Strategies for Mastering your Reading Habits and Applying What You Learn. Because by far, the number one issue that my community has on social media, we have hundreds of 1000s of people in our community looking for book recommendations and finding their next read. The number one issue is, how do I take more action on the books that I read? Right? Because there is an opportunity cost to spending your time and money reading something and then choosing not to do anything with it, because you don’t have the strategy. So Rise of the Reader is available now, and in every major format. And yeah, you can get it, you can use it, you can apply the things that I teach to every book you read for the rest of time, and you will get more out of them. And as that compounds, I mean, we know these books, they’re condensing decades of somebody else’s greatest life lessons into days of application. It’s like the best hack out there, the best shortcut out there. So, yeah, they have the power to change our lives if we choose to implement them effectively, right?

Heather Pearce Campbell  33:01

No, it’s a huge if, and I talk about all the time, like the Power of the Right book, The Power of the Right conversation, to just open up a new idea in your mind, right about how to do something differently, or how to achieve something. But it takes taking the action. It requires, like doing the next step and doing the right next step in order to optimize that. So I love it. And for folks that are wanting to go deeper into this topic and get more out of Nick’s content around, how do you optimize your strategy? And I know that for so many of you listening, you are readers, right? You live in the entrepreneurial space, and I think most people there do quite a bit of reading and just general content consumption, right? In a variety of ways, podcasts, events, these other things we’ve talked about. So that’s huge Nick. I’d love to know, because I know you also live in the podcast space, right? And I love, I think up top, I put down some notes in what you were saying early on you you basically accidented your way into, you know, this particular niche or this field. Talk to us a little bit about what you have learned on your own entrepreneurial journey. Right as you’ve built this agency, you’ve gotten into all of this content creation around books and authors and authorship and how to do it the right way. Share with us some of your favorite gems from your own journey. 

Nick Hutchison  34:12

Oof, I have so many. I mean, number one is slow and steady wins the race. There are no overnight successes. And I’ve had the opportunity to meet and interview so many amazing people, a lot of very financially successful people, a couple of billionaires, a lot of 100 plus millionaires, a lot of very healthy people, right? People who run Ultra triathlon, bazillion mile marathons and all that kind of stuff. And very happy people. We’ve interviewed a lot of sort of spiritual gurus and people who figured that out. And so I think that my biggest takeaway is that there is no overnight success. Everybody works for a very long time. Everybody has their own timeline, but everybody works for a very long time improving their skills in different areas of life. And I think that to be sustainably successful, you have to balance those three things, you have to be healthy, you have to be wealthy, and you have to be happy. You’ve got to have great relationships, you have to have some type of spirituality in your life. And I think for a lot of times, for certain people, you know, there’s not an even ratio across those variables or pillars, and so just continue to work at them. You know, no matter how many times you read Aesop’s fable the tortoise and the hare, the tortoise always wins, and slow and steady again, wins that race and yeah, so, you know, I’m loving my journey. I’ve got the chance to interview so many amazing people, and I know that I will continue to interview and collaborate and work with and strategize with so many more amazing people over the next couple of decades. But, yeah, I definitely love what I do.

Heather Pearce Campbell  36:05

I love that I can tell. I can tell in the way that you talk about it. Were there any points in your journey where you’re like, Oh, I’m gonna give up, or I don’t love this, or something felt like backwards or out of order, right? Are there any of those kinds of pivot or, like, really questioning points that we can learn from.

Nick Hutchison  36:25

Yeah, here’s an example of out of order that I used to be really insecure about, but now I wear as a badge of honor. So early in my entrepreneurship journey, I had this full time software sales position I was doing really well, and then I was building book thinkers on the side, right? It’s an Instagram page. I’m getting paid to review books. It’s not a real income or anything. And I was about to jump. And again, this mentor of mine said Slow and steady wins the race. He said 95% of small businesses fail in the first five years because they run out of money. You don’t want to jump off the cliff and try to build a parachute on the way down, because you’ll operate from a place of urgency. You’ll compromise on values, you’ll discount your integrity, whatever. So he said, slow and steady. And I took that to the extreme, and here’s the example of the wrong order. I had a few full time employees at my agency before I was ever full time, so that always makes people laugh, because I was being interviewed as an entrepreneur, right? I own my own agency. I’m working with all these superstars, people like Lewis, yet I had a full time job on the side, but I really took that lesson to heart. I didn’t want my thing to fail, and I knew that if I put all my eggs in one basket a lot of times, that basket falls apart, especially your first attempt at growing a business. So I really, you know, again, having full time employees before your full time was kind of backwards for most people, but that was the slow and steady approach for me.

Heather Pearce Campbell  38:00

Well, and it highlights the fact that there is no one way to build a business that’s also the other reality, right? Some people do leap and they take that big risk, or they’re a self funded business startup, and it takes a significant amount of initial capital. Others don’t. They are slowly building over over time. Others are building the bridge like you did, right? They’ve got a primary thing, and they’re really taking care to build that bridge so that by the time they transition fully over, you know, they’re confident in the bridge holding.

Nick Hutchison  38:39

I was going to say, I’ll share another, just quick one for a second, because I think sometimes I know that I’ve experienced this listening to a lot of shows, sometimes people don’t love to talk about the failures or everything. Seems like it’s great all the time. So when I was first starting book thinkers, and it was still a side hustle at the time, but remember, I’m a recent college graduate, I tried to build a mobile application that could help readers retain and implement more from the books they were reading. So a competitor to something like Goodreads, which is a platform that a lot of people are familiar with, and together with a couple of friends, I spent 10s of 1000s of dollars, hundreds of hours of my time, and that never came to fruition. It totally failed. So there’s definitely been moments like that, but I think that to get through it, number one, you reframe failure as a learning experience, which sounds cheesy, but it is the fastest way to learn. And in the traditional public education system, in the US, a lot of times, people are taught to stand in line and fall in line and avoid failure, and, you know, have the same perspective as their teachers. And I think, in the real world of entrepreneurship, failure is the best teacher. And when you feel fast and you feel hard, but then you reflect and you iterate and you change, and then you try something new, and you’re connected. It to a purpose which sort of keeps you going outside of just money, then good things start to happen. So, you know, I just wanted to add that in there too, because I’ve definitely had my big L’s, you know what? 

Heather Pearce Campbell  40:11

I mean, well, and it’s a super important point, because I work on the legal side of businesses, and people show up all the time with big L’s, yeah, yeah. Partly why they intersect my path, right? They lost IP, or somebody, you know, got inside their business and stole a bunch of information, or, you know, or they tried this thing and failed, and they now also have some liability related with it. Or, you know, a regulatory thing came down on them, lots of big L’s. And often what people are learning about in that process is their boundaries, how to create the proper structure for their business, how to reorganize this part over here so that it works better in the future, you know? And all of these, I’m having the same conversation with my clients, like, Look, nobody gets to skip this, right? This is part of building, is that we bump up against rough corners and walls and things that we didn’t know about and that we have to learn about in a hurry. And this is just part of the process, right? So, and it’ll serve you like each one of these experiences will serve you because you become a much better, more strategic version of yourself on the other side of this experience.

Nick Hutchison  41:27

Yeah, yeah, very true. When you expect failure, and you know it’s part of the process, it doesn’t surprise you, and it doesn’t rock the boat that much, right? 

Heather Pearce Campbell  41:35

Yeah, totally. You just accept like, Oh, they’re going to be some things like this that we calculate for. Yeah, no, that’s awesome. Super important point. So Nick, for folks that are listening to you are like, I want to go check out Nick. I want to find out where he shows up. Maybe they want to connect with you online. Where do you show up? Where do you like for people to come find you and connect with you?

Nick Hutchison  41:59

One of my favorite things to do is to play book matchmaker for people. And here’s what I mean by that. If anybody listened to this today and they’re like, Okay, I get it. I should be reading more books. I want to apply this smart goal framework to a book, but I don’t know what to read. Send me a direct message on Instagram at book thinkers, spelled just like it sounds, and tell me about a problem that you’re facing, or a skill that you want to develop, or an area that you’re curious to learn more about, and I’ll provide a custom book recommendation to you like I said, it’s one of my favorite things to do. And then Instagram is also our largest and most vibrant community. You can meet a lot of other like minded people. A lot of them are entrepreneurial in nature, and they’re reading books to get to that next level. So Instagram and then there are links in our bio over there for everything that you might need.

Heather Pearce Campbell  42:50

I love that. I love that so much. So first of all, I’m thinking, like, oh my gosh, you must get totally overwhelmed with these requests.

Nick Hutchison  42:56

I love it, though. I really love it. Yeah.

Heather Pearce Campbell  42:59

Well, and I’ve got one. I’m gonna pop into your DMs and request a book that’s super fun, that’s great. I will share. We’ll share your social links, especially Instagram. You have a website you like to share?

Nick Hutchison  43:12

Yeah, bookthinkers.com is the best place to go for our author services, and you can get links to our podcast and everything there as well.

Heather Pearce Campbell  43:21

Perfect. Love that. I was going to say, I won’t make sure. I want to make sure that we share your podcast out also. So folks, if you’re listening, hop over to legalwebsitewarrior.com/podcast, find Nick Hutchison’s episode, and we will post all of the links there, over to his socials, over to his website, which will include his podcast. And I think it’d be super fun if you popped into his DM and let him know what problem you’re facing and get a book recommendation. I’m gonna go do that. Also, I hope you will reach out and let me know if you enjoyed this episode. If you’re going to go connect with Nick and let me know a big takeaway that you got from it, one thing that you’re going to go do differently, Nick on that point, what action step, thought, quote, I’m sure you’ve got a gazillion of each would you like to leave our listeners with today?

Nick Hutchison  44:17

The thought that I’ll leave everybody with is that there is a book to solve every problem that we face as humans. And sometimes we think that our problems are unique, and they feel that way, but they’re not. 100 billion people have lived before us, and millions of people have really figured it out, and some of them have written books. So again, no matter how unique you think your problem is for $20 in a few hours of your time, you can find a solution. You can implement it, you can live a better life.

Heather Pearce Campbell  44:48

So true. So so good. I love that. Well, Nick, it’s been so fun to connect with you. I’ve been looking forward to this. I’ve been watching your journey the last little bit since we first connected. Super glad that we overlap, and I’m grateful that you popped on today and shared some really significant and also straightforward takeaways that people can go take action on. I love that. So thank you for being with us.

Nick Hutchison  45:14

You are welcome, and thank you for hosting such a great show. I really appreciate it

Heather Pearce Campbell  45:18

Awesome. We will be in touch. 

GGGB Outro  45:21

Thank you for joining us today on the Guts, Grit and Great Business® podcast. We hope that we’ve added a little fuel to your tank, some coffee to your cup and pep in your step to keep you moving forward in your own great adventures. For key takeaways, links to any resources mentioned in today’s show and more, see the show notes which can be found at www.legalwebsitewarrior.com/podcast. Be sure to subscribe to the podcast and if you enjoyed today’s conversation, please give us some stars and a review on Apple podcasts, Spotify or wherever you get your podcast so others will find us too. Keep up the great work you are doing in the world and we’ll see you next week.