Prosperity Over Popularity

With Ashley Ann, also known as King Ashley Ann, is a talented business builder, public speaker, social media strategist and an award-winning event designer. Ashley has helped over 11,000 individuals monetize their social media and over 700 people create 6 figure incomes. She has currently helped 151 people create 7 figure incomes with 9 of her clients consistently achieving million-dollar months. She has also helped over 1000 businesses generate $25K- $45K per month using Live Stream.

In this podcast, Ashley shares some secrets and tips on how you can maximize and grow your income using different social media platforms, and how popularity doesn’t always lead to success but how prosperity does. You will also hear her talk about her journey to financial success.

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Biggest takeaways (or quotes) you don’t want to miss:

  • “The third biggest mistake that I see people are making is they confuse consistency with frequency.”
  • Prosperity is better than popularity.
  • “When you’re not informed and you’re learning something, you can get a lot of misinformation.”
  • What is Insta-Coin Academy?
  • “Sometimes, people are so focused on a sale that they don’t really think about sustainability.”
  • Why should you start creating your TikTok or YouTube account?

“You have a skill. Do not be afraid to go and develop that, build up your portfolio, and put yourself out there (so that) you can make money doing something that you like.”

-Ashley Ann Jones

Check out these highlights:

  • 06:08 Ashley shares how her interest in social media started and how she learned to have an impact on people and their businesses.
  • 08:38 How was worldwide campaign used for scam?
  • 13:46 Ashley explains the process she goes through with her clients.
  • 46:52 What is Ashley’s favorite thing in her business?
  • 51:32 Ashley Ann’s tip to the people who are afraid of doing a website audit.

How to get in touch with Ashley Ann:

On social media:






Learn more about Ashley Ann, by visiting her websites and

Special offer for listeners: To get access to FREE workshops, cheat sheets, etc, just send the word “Kommas” to 501-285-8966 or use the link

Imperfect Show Notes

We are happy to offer these imperfect show notes to make this podcast more accessible to those who are hearing impaired or those who prefer reading over listening. While we would love to offer more polished show notes, we are currently offering an automated transcription (which likely includes errors, but hopefully will still deliver great value), below.

GGGB Intro  00:00

Here’s what to expect today…

Ashley Ann Jones  00:02

The third biggest mistake that I see people making is they confuse consistency with frequency. Right? And you can’t it’s not about just posting a bunch of times, like, what’s the tone, you know, what’s the what’s the nature of the content 80% of your content should be around your core offer. The other 20% is where you can put up all that other random stuff, okay? People are not, they don’t have the same voice like one day, they’re conservative and they say they’re bold, another day. Another day, they’re like out here like trying to be super educational. No, just be yourself. And then you’re not gonna have to worry about not having an inconsistent tone because you’re authentic to who you are. So people feel comfortable with you.

GGGB Intro  00:48

The adventure of entrepreneurship and building a life and business you love, preferably at the same time is not for the faint of heart. That’s why Heather Pearce Campbell is bringing you a dose of guts, grit and great business stories that will inspire and motivate you to create what you want in your business and life. Welcome to the Guts, Grit and Great Business™ podcast where endurance is required. Now, here’s your host, The Legal Website Warrior®, Heather Pearce Campbell.

Heather Pearce Campbell  01:23

Alrighty, welcome. I am Heather Pearce Campbell, The Legal Website Warrior®. I’m an attorney and legal coach based here in Seattle, Washington, serving information entrepreneurs throughout the US and the world. Welcome to another episode of Guts, Grit and Great Business™. I am super excited for this conversation. We are going to have a lot of fun today, and I’m super excited about what you’re gonna learn. Welcome to Ashley Ann and I just am smiling saying that before we went live, I told Ashley I’m already a fan because my sister is named Ashley and I can’t say that name and not smile. Welcome, Ashley.

Ashley Ann Jones  02:05

Thank you for having me. And you know, Ashleys are awesome, but Ashley ended up awesome. Totally. I got one live you know what I mean? We make it better.

Heather Pearce Campbell  02:15

Oh, you’re right on the devil. Awesome. She is pure sunshine. I joke like if I could just munch her up like down into like pocket size and just put it in my pocket and carry around everywhere I would totally do. For those of you that don’t know this particular Ashley and Ashley and also known as King Ashley Ann is a talented biz builder, public speaker and social media strategist. Ashley has helped over 11,000 individuals monetize their social media, and over 700 people create six figure incomes. She has currently helped 151 People create seven figure incomes, and nine of her clients are consistently doing million dollar months. She has also helped over 1000 businesses generate 25k to 45k per month using live streams. You can connect with Ashley, Ashley Ann on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and YouTube at King Ashley Ann. Oh, I love it. Welcome Ashley Ann. I’m super excited about this conversation. Because when it comes to social media, oh, I am the wrong person to be talking about it or teaching anything about it. So this will be a lot of fun.

Ashley Ann Jones  03:34

I love everything about social media, like even all that little annoying stuff.

Heather Pearce Campbell  03:42

I love it. You and my sister Ashley and I would get along. This is like people are reaching out to her. She’s actually in medical sales. She’s been in sales for years. But she is a natural bubbly, like billowing personality. So social media is like so easy for her unit. Just even in her own little natural way. She hasn’t done much to like, try to figure it out. She just goes and does it. I’m like, You do something that looks like it takes you five minutes, it would take me like two hours to figure out how to do that thing. Right. So it is interesting. I think certain personalities just really naturally do it better. Just gonna say that. And that’s not to say that we can’t figure it out the rest of us that are on those slower train. But it’s like we need people like you in our lives to help us figure it out and elevate our online presence and really show up in ways that help us get our message out and talk to the right people that we should be talking to.

Ashley Ann Jones  04:45

Yeah, it’s really honestly about being intentional. And so I was one of those people too. I just kind of started doing it. And before you know content marketing was actually coined content marketing. I had already been doing that for years. And I was like, Okay, well, what I’m doing is getting me success. And I started looking at other people that were really successful, and just kind of dissecting it and breaking it down until we created a system that was easy to replicate. And so I think a lot of people have anxiety because, like you’re saying, they’re like, why don’t I have this big personality or, like, I’m not really bubbly. You don’t have to be like, you can be yourself, your vibe will attract your tribe, but everybody is gonna monetize or create a profitable page, you definitely have to be intentional, right? And so it’s like a method to our madness.

Heather Pearce Campbell  05:38

Hmm, well, I love that. And for folks listening, even just hearing, there’s a method to the madness, like already, I’m like, Oh, that feels better. Let’s talk about the method. What I’m curious about your start, where were you in your journey, when you started figuring out things like social media and the fact that you could do this really well and impact people and grow your business exponentially.

Ashley Ann Jones  06:05

So it took a while for me to like, kind of connect the dots. So my very first company’s event design and production company, still running it to this day, this I made my first merely all that good stuff, and how I actually learned I was good at Social Media Marketing and monetization. And so I met this lady at a chamber and she was a really cool chick, and she ran an art gallery. And so we would talk every now and then. And then it started with them more frequently, and then eventually got to the point, she was calling me like three or four times a week, she had this business manager that she was paying $5,000 a month. And eventually, I got to a point, I was like, Why do you keep calling and asking me stuff, you have this business manager, and she’s just says, because everything you told me works, always works there then. And that’s where I kind of have a light bulb of like, okay, like, if they’re paying somebody else 1000s of dollars, and but you’re always calling me, you should be paying me 1000s of dollars, right? So then I had a couple of other colleagues in the event industry. And I found out like, they were like, no, they’re like, they don’t do anything. They’re like, we don’t do anything unless we talk to you first. And so his girlfriend was there, and one of the guys and she was like, yeah, she was like, he really will not do anything pertaining to business until he runs up it first. So that’s when I first like got the light bulb that I should be consulted, I still hadn’t quite understood the fact yet that everybody didn’t really get social media as far as from a monetary perspective. And so I was doing general, you know, business building, and I had an ad agency. So I was running people’s Facebook ads and killing it doing a really good job. At the time, I was probably doing like, half a million a year or something like that. And anyways, it still took a few years for me to put together that I need to focus on social media. So during this time, I don’t know like time, it’s kind of running together, I’d say maybe.

Heather Pearce Campbell  08:03

Right. Don’t even talk to me about time since COVID hit, ya know?

Ashley Ann Jones  08:07

Back in the day, there was this scam. And the scam was people would come in, and they say I’m gonna run your Facebook ads for you. And they will run these things called worldwide campaigns. And so you know, it sounds like oh, this is really fabulous, right? It was not okay, it’s not to this day, if somebody tells you they’re gonna run a worldwide campaign, unless they have like a really specific purpose of what they’re gonna do with this vanity traffic, just run in the other direction, okay, do not have any money, do not give them a current nothing. So what happens in a worldwide campaign, they go and they buy lower tier traffic. So when you’re buying traffic on like YouTube, or Facebook or Tik Tok, or wherever you’re getting it from US, Canada, Europe, Australia, and I’m missing a country, there’s five countries that were like considered tier one, it costs a bit more for our traffic, but we spend more money, right, and those currencies have like, they have higher values than the other currencies. Well, in these worldwide campaigns, they will go and run your posts to like people like in Cambodia, the Philippines, maybe somewhere in Ghana, somewhere where the trade does not cost as much, you’re not gonna get a customer there. You’re literally never gonna see these people come into your store, you know, or into your gym or whatever it is that you have. And so it would have all these business owners feeling terrible, right? Because they’ve gone into their 401 Ks, they’ve maxed out their credit cards, they’re doing everything that they can to, like build their business. And basically someone has taken advantage of them because back in the day, it was called Power Editor is what it was called for Facebook. And I will say this, it’s definitely still overwhelming, but it was really overwhelming back then. And it was like its own language and they knew that people did not know what was going on. So they come to you with a report and they’re like, Look Uh, you know, we got 10,000 views, you know, to your page, we got you 2000 new followers. So it’s not our fault that your gym is failing or your bakery and doing well or, you know, your lawn care business, that you’re not booking new clients. Is something wrong with your ads or is something wrong with your service? Maybe it’s your pricing, right? Because look at how many people came in view, look at how many people came in light. And the business owner didn’t know the difference, right? They know what was going on. So long story long, I started this thing called Late Night business. And I was like, I’m just gonna get on here and teach for free, so y’all do not get scammed. And I’ll start showing everybody the back end of like my ad accounts, teaching on terms metrics, how you can build up your own base without spending any money, you know, on ads and stuff like that. And I had no idea that it was gonna grow as big as it did, but it just kind of took off. But that’s literally how.

Heather Pearce Campbell  10:58

Yeah, I love it. I mean, when people start to recognize, like you had this talent, you knew what you were doing, you’d figured it out without really knowing that you’d figured it out, right, knowing that it was something that you can monetize, and then just showing up to like, help people. So actually, my sister Ashley Ann, who I was also mentioning before we went live, is also a natural on social media. And I mean, it’s not her expertise, like it is yours, but she naturally does it and does it well and can get a lot of traction and traffic, especially in the medical sales world. She was in a I don’t know, for lack of a better phrase, like a desert of people that didn’t know how to present medical devices and stuff in a way that would actually engage people and get people to comment and pique their interest. And, you know, and so I’ve always laughed, like, actually, you need to come to my house and sit down next to me and pick up this thing called an iPhone and actually like, show me how to do it. So this is what you were doing. It sounds like through your videos like being the helper and then things exploded for you. I love this story. I love that like you naturally leaned into this because it is, I can say even from my personal standpoint, the story you describe about going on to Facebook and trying to even run like an ads campaign. I did a very basic one. I think I was just trying to get like my page exposure. I can’t even remember what I did. But I remember reading something studying how you create a certain audience thinking like, like, should at least be generally targeting the right kind of people in the right kind of business. Yeah, oh, no. Oh, no, I wasn’t like two days later, I had to turn that darn thing off because I was getting like wackadoodles from like backwoods wherever I don’t even know where they were from, but they were not in business. And they were not the people that I needed to be helping. And I was like, What is a Facebook show? Like? Who isn’t showing these ads to this is not the input that I put into this thing. Right. And so I do think it does baffle people.

Ashley Ann Jones  13:10

Mm hmm. It is and then you don’t you know, you have to figure out how to build like, a lookalike audience and you have to figure out how to build an audience based off of your engagement audience based off of views, or audience to include or audience to exclude how many times a day you want people to see the ads, like, it’s definitely it’s it’s a lot to learn. It’s challenging to try and go in there blind and think that you’re gonna have success. 

Heather Pearce Campbell  13:34

Yeah. So where do you start with clients, when people come to you? And they’re like, look, I really need help. Do you have a process that you walk them through? Like, how would you help somebody? Do this better?

Ashley Ann Jones  13:45

Yeah, so the first thing I do is I just try and figure out well, what exactly do you need help with? Or let me rephrase that? What do they think they need help with, like, 90% of time, people don’t think they want you know, the end result. So they know what end result they’re looking for. But they don’t quite understand the process enough to know, this is where I am, right? So I just try and talk with them in a little bit more detail. So they can tell me like what’s their biggest challenges are. What are the biggest hurdles? I also I’m always very interested in wanting to know like, what my clients are looking for in the next 90 days. Right? So like, your immediate results, you know, and then what have you already tried to remedy this? Right. So have you already tried a program? You know, did you go around the world on a plane? Have you worked with like seven or eight people? Are you taking courses have you outsourced in Heart of the companies but what exactly have you done? Because I don’t want I don’t like wasting people’s time. So I’m not going to have you do something if we know it doesn’t work for you. Or maybe we can try it but we need to modify the way that we did it. And so I really am like invested in helping someone get win right as fast as we can help them get a win, especially in business, which is challenging. Sometimes if you haven’t had a win, it really can affect your confidence, right? When it comes to, you know, sometimes I’ve met a lot of people that have really amazing offers, whether it’s a book or a podcast, or, you know, a food truck, or they, you know, teach people how to garden and it doesn’t matter when it is awesome. They just are targeting the wrong people. And so they start to get discouraged about their idea.

Heather Pearce Campbell  15:32

Totally, no, I think there’s a lot of truth in that. And like not being able to gain momentum, even, you know, connecting with the right people or getting feedback that your message is even landing. And it’s, you know, I think there’s a lot that goes into doing this well. People need all the help, they need all the tips and strategies. And sometimes, like you said, they have to try a few things to figure out what works for them. Because I think the other thing is, there is no like one size fits all right, depending on the business, the personality, like I’m sure you’ve seen so much where, you know, different things factor in to how somebody does

Ashley Ann Jones  16:12

Like you said, it’s the business, it’s the personality, how big is your niche? What is your daily life like? Like, I can’t create a marketing plan for someone that they’re not going to have time to execute, right? What’s the different budget that you have? You know, like, what, like, literally like, how long does it even take someone to convert into a client for you, a lot of people don’t even know how long the life cycle is, they have no idea how long from the time someone knows that they exist, and to how long it actually took them to like open up their wallet, you know, button, swipe their card, or put in the information. And I’ll give you an example. So like, I know, you’re a mom, and you have dogs, so you’re probably not going to be able to go live online like four or five times a day, it just does not fit for you right now someone who is single, they get to be selfish with all of their time.

Heather Pearce Campbell  17:03

They always look awesome, they get a messy house,

Ashley Ann Jones  17:07

To be able to be out early in the morning, late at night, in the afternoon, you know, just kind of chronicling their whole life. But for my mind moms and dads normally I’m like, okay, realistically, like tell me your schedule with the kids, right? So okay, I need you to get up 30 minutes earlier. So you can spend, you know, get your first post out of the way. And he’s just go like 100 people’s accounts, you know, I need you to like come in on 20 people’s accounts, and then leave your phone alone, right, I’m also going to need you to get a VA so that they can respond to all the emails and the DM for you that you can’t get to, which is important because 80% of people actually buy from who responds to them first, it’s not even who’s the best fit. It’s just Ubers mind at first, right? Because if they have it in their mind that they’re ready to hire somebody, they literally made a list and they’re just going person after person after person after person. Whoever talked to me first, that’s who I’m buying it from. So literally, even having like someone in they can handle that where you go to work, handle bathtime homework time, take them to the extracurricular activities, right, then All right, well, now you need to take a break like an hour for yourself. And then after you take this hour for yourself, I need for you once a week to try and do a live stream or interview or collaboration with someone else. Because that’s gonna fit their schedule compared to someone who’s just floating around like me, I have all the time because I don’t have any kids. People always ask me, they’re like, how do you get so much done? The first thing I would tell them is, I ain’t got no kids. And I ain’t got no man, man, I got a man now because I’m engaged. But before then I have to share my time with anybody. And so I’m really way more so yeah, when I have a client that they’re not a caregiver, they’re not a parent, you know, so they’re here living solo dolla, I definitely expect them to be doing a lot more engagement based, you know, in relational interactions on social media than for parent or caregiver.

Heather Pearce Campbell  19:03

Yeah, so true. Well, and the point that you make about responsiveness is huge. And it’s huge in modern times, because when people expected, I even thought of the difference, like because I’m in the legal world, right? So I’m an attorney and practicing law, like the pace of life, as a lawyer, even, you know, let’s say 20 years ago, was very different than it is now people expect immediate responses, they expect that you’re going to be available, they expect that they don’t have to wait very long for anything. Right. And it’s true of increase as well. I recently had somebody who I wanted to take really good care of because of the referral source. And I emailed her back immediately, and I didn’t hear anything for two for a couple days, and I had to email again. And guess what, just like you said, my email had gone into spam or someplace. She didn’t even see it. So she hired some IELTS, even though I’m quite sure I was the more Quizlet qualified individual for this particular thing, because I knew what she was being referred for. Right. But it’s like people do just want fast service.

Ashley Ann Jones  20:13

Yeah, they want to even if it’s, Hey, we got your query, you know, one of the ones for so in the event world, a lot of us like Thursday through Monday, we’re occupied because everybody hasn’t started a weekend, right. And so you know, one of our most popular emails and in the voicemail will get caught to say, Hey, I got your message. But we’re hanging chandeliers and throwing glitter at someone else’s event. We can’t wait to do the same for you on Tuesday and we’ll write you back. And literally, my client’s closing rate went up by 30%. Just because we, even though it was the auto responder, it was still some form of communication, and we let them know when they can expect to hear from us. So trying to put those things in place for people that are really, really busy. Or even some people that still work their nine to five, right? To get those two or three hours together to work on their business. You have to be able to do that. And so literally like looking at someone’s life and saying, Okay, this is what’s going to work better for you. And this is probably why in the past when you’ve attempted some of these things, you didn’t have the success you were looking for. And then somebody else now that ain’t got nothing going on. They got no excuses. I’m writing them down girl like a like a banshee. Okay, I’m like, I’m on you. Like why don’t you rise? I will be here. Save him excuses for your mama. Sinem tears for your daddy. Okay, don’t argue with me. You argue with somebody else? Like let’s hop to it, right?

Heather Pearce Campbell  21:43

I love it. It’s what people need. It’s what people need. Yeah. So what do you find? Most people get wrong most of the time.

Ashley Ann Jones  21:53

Oh, they think they need to be popular. And that’s not how you make money online. Like I always teach my clients prosperity over popularity, prosperity over popularity, prosperity over popularity. I cannot tell you how many people come to me with hundreds of 1000s or millions of followers that got all the blue checkmarks. And they are broke, flat broke. Okay, those like empty lights do not read. They don’t get you commas and aren’t counting the bills, they are not okay. Like and people are so obsessed with trying to be popular because I honestly don’t know who started this rumor. But for some reason, people think if you have a bunch of followers that like instantaneously, you’re gonna make money. And I have clients who literally have three and 400 followers who are making between five and $10,000 a month consistently every single month. So it’s really more about the quality that is the first thing and I don’t think people spend enough time trying to figure out who is their ideal client, like who is this avatar? And I’m not talking about the demographic information like Yeah, we all know about age and you know, socio economic and income stuff. You’re gonna go so much further with psychographics? Like, who is this person? What do they do on the weekend? What do they like to watch? What do they shop at like Walmart? Or are they shopping at Tarjay? Because someone that shops at Walmart is going to be cost focused, compared to somebody who likes to shop at Target, they’re going to be more quality focused right, then. And that makes a big difference. If you’re selling something that’s 20 bucks, okay, well target all the people to shop at Walmart. But if you have a program, or you have a service, and it costs 1000s of dollars, you probably actually want to target the people that shop at Target shop at farmer’s markets go to Whole Foods, because they don’t mind spending a little bit more because they’re looking for the quality and the level of service that you’re going to get right? You need to figure out like what type of clothes they wear. The number one rule of marketing is being upfront Be Where Your people are. So if I like Sephora, makeup over mag, then you probably can go to some beauty pages on Instagram and Facebook. Put my content there. So that way, I’m showing up right in front of my avatar. And they know that I exist. So I don’t think people really spend enough time just trying to figure out, Who is this client? Like? What’s their personality? What are their interests? You know, are they vegan? Do they SoulCycle? Are they moms if they’re a mom, do their kids play football? Or their kids play soccer? Are they in gymnastics, right? Like literally trying to find out everything about your climb that you can. So I always tell people, you need to spend some time stuck into chicken Hockin because people put out a business on social media. You need to be looking, scrolling, paying attention to what they’re posting, you know, does she have some wine? Or does she have a Coach purse, or Louis Vuitton bag? You know what I mean? Like what is really going on with this person? And so if I can figure out what my people like, well, I can go and find pages right that correlate with it. And if I’m running ads, I can put those parameters inside of the ads manager and voila, all of a sudden here I am on your screen and people are like I don’t know how I found you. You found me, I found you. By myself in your life, you saved me. So that, I would say like, the third biggest mistake that I see people making, is they confuse consistency with frequency, right? And he is not about just posting a bunch of times, like, what’s the tone? You know, I tell people really, they shouldn’t have more than three fonts that they’re using for their stuff. You know, what’s the what’s the nature of the content, 80% of your content should be around your core offer. The other 20% is where you can put up all that other random stuff, okay? People are not, they don’t have the same voice, like one day, they’re conservative. And next day, they’re bold, another Ryan, another day, they’re like out here, like trying to be super educational. No, just be yourself. And then you’re not gonna have to worry about not having an inconsistent tone, because you’re authentic to who you are. So people feel comfortable with you. So those are like the top three. Now I can probably come up with like, 20 mistakes that I see people making online. But I think those are the biggest three that affect people’s income.

Heather Pearce Campbell  26:11

So good. And that popularity thing? Oh, my gosh, it’s so like, when you said that something came to mind. There is somebody in online space, I’m not gonna mention names, millions of followers, right. And I work with some people in the online space from a legal perspective that have businesses at the top of their industries. And so what it means is that those clients get eyeballs on their websites on their legal documentation, which I build. And so people are ripping it off all the time. Yes, right. Yes. And so then I have to go after them and say, Look, this documentation is not yours, somebody else paid for it, you know, you need to take this down off your website. Sometimes they don’t even remove the name of the original business, they took it from

Ashley Ann Jones  26:57

Like a shell.

Heather Pearce Campbell  27:00

And so there’s one individual who again, by all outward appearances, was like, he should be able to pay me 40 times my rate for this particular service based on how you would think he’s doing in business. But here he is just stealing it off somebody else’s site, because they had their legal ducks in a row. And yeah, you know, it is just fascinating. But that popularity thing doesn’t pay your bills. Like that’s such an important point for people to take away that it really is about quality over quantity and connecting with exactly the right people. And I love the level of detail you are into about how curious we all should be getting about who our clients really are.

Ashley Ann Jones  27:48

You got to be able to speak to people in the language, right? That they understand that you’re not gonna be able to do that if you don’t know who they are. And you don’t have to try and make everyone be your customer. Like I know for a fact I’m not everyone’s cup of tea, but the guys and gals, they get it, they get it. They like me, they roll with me, some people can’t handle all my Blinken and permit and all this other stuff that I’m doing, like, oh my gosh, she’s too animated. I can’t take care. Right? Yeah. Other people. They’re like, Yes, I love it. Like she’s making business not boring for me. And I can remember the things she’s teaching me and yes, I know exactly. You know what she’s talking about when she gave that reference. So just understanding is like just being yourself and talking to your people. That’s what gets us conversions. Right. That’s what gets you sustainable income. All of this other these stupid rules. I don’t even know who comes up with these rules, you know, and I have to if I’m being frank, you know, a lot of these people that are putting this information out there, they’ve never done it before. It’s all theory. I can’t tell you how many rooms I sat in before. And there’s somebody up on stage talking about like making money with social media or how to build up a, you know, podcast and all this other kinds of stuff that they’re talking about. And they have not done it and the information they’re giving is terrible. That’s honestly how I got into speaking before I never used to speak. And people sent me invitations. I’m like, oh, no, thank you. I started going because it’s like, clearly, there’s a lot of misinformation going on out here. So I need to open up my fat mouth. And I need to say something, I need to fix this drum so people can get what they need. Right? And so like I would see, it was old people would get so mad at me because I’d be like, You shouldn’t be telling people you’re gonna teach them how to build up followers and you don’t have at least 10,000 followers. It doesn’t make sense. There’s only 10% of people on each social media platform that are able to get past a 10k threshold. Why you’re listening to someone on stage with 800 followers tells you how to build your followers. It doesn’t make sense. But people were just, you know, looking for information and willing to say, I will try anything to improve my business right to improve my situation to grow and be successful. So it was really, like, it’s really interesting, you know, social media, and the internet is great, because there’s a lot of information out there. But it’s also not so great because when you, when you’re not informed, and you’re learning something, you can get a lot of misinformation. You know, somebody literally can give you a map to a toilet, and you think it’s the greatest thing ever, until you get to the toilet, and you’re like, wait a minute, I’ve spent, you know, 18 months building all this stuff to get to a toilet. But you know, so people, make sure that they look for receipts to like, you need, there has to be some type of testimonial. There should be other people that can say I use this system, I bought this book, I hate this thing, whatever it was, and this is what it is, especially when you’re looking for someone to like coach you or mentor you. They need to have receipts, if they ain’t got my receipts, chat, run, okay, just run, and don’t let them pressure you into buying things. I see a lot of microwave coaches right now, too, then they’re like, you know, go max out your 401 k max out that car, you better get in here right now. Because it may not be there for my child. Guy, and nobody worried about that. Okay, and they never have, you know, actual real life testimonials to say, This is who I helped and how I helped them. So I know you’re gonna ask me that. But I just need to throw that in there, y’all because a lot of them out here, you make sure that person is reputable. And you can understand the way that they teach. And then, you know, it’s okay, now getting to their program. 

Heather Pearce Campbell  31:33

Well, it really is such an important point. Because I agree that the internet is amazing, because we have access to so much information experts, people that really need to be sharing their knowledge. And there are a lot of people who shouldn’t be there, right? And it can be hard, especially if somebody is in the beginning phases of trying to start something or build a business or figure out what they’re doing, to know who to listen to. And I think it really does pay to slow down and be very careful about who you decide to learn from because ultimately, we are all responsible for our own path. In business and in life. We are responsible to choose who we’re going to learn from and what we are there to learn from that person. Yeah, yeah, it’s but you’re right. There are plenty of people with high pressure tactics, their bro marketing tactics, like the stuff that you see, or like, how is this possibly working? Right?

Ashley Ann Jones  32:31

It’s too much, but it works. Because you have so many, I feel like really good people, they are just trying, you know, to do better. They’re trying to put themselves in a better position in life, like, what did they call this year was it 2021 with like, the great exodus, and then I think there, you’re like, the 2022 is a great restructure right inside of the environment. And you have to think about all these people that are like, You know what, I would rather try and work for myself or build my own thing, or develop my side hustle, then put myself in a super stressful, toxic negative work environment. And so now you have all these people, they’re like, Alright, I’m gonna get out here, I’m gonna give it a try. And they’re super excited. And you know, then they’re met with just, you know, bootiful would say, waterfall, but you don’t know.

Heather Pearce Campbell  33:26

Until you get to the Oh, so bad. I know. Well, and you know, I feel like we could talk all day about social media. And you have this whole other business background in design and event planning, right? I mean, it’s so great. And you want to share for a moment about that business? Because Is that where you started?

Ashley Ann Jones  33:49

Yeah, that’s where I got this for all of us started. So now it’s really finally it’s quite comical. Even though I have a background in design, I’m really good at it. That’s just my natural God given gift. Reason, finance and I have never taken one design class in my life. I’m all self taught, right?

Heather Pearce Campbell  34:13

I love it. I love it. 

Ashley Ann Jones  34:15

So I will say if there’s anybody out there that’s listening right now and you have a skill, you have a gift. It’s something like you just can do it the way that people can breathe, you can just do this thing. Do not be afraid to go and develop that and build up your portfolio and put yourself out there and you can make money doing something you’d like to do. So with my events, like I started off with interior design and event design. And literally, it was like I was never going to work. I’m like So you mean to tell me someone will pay me to come in here and shop for furniture and pick out dishes and put colors on walls and paint like stuff that I just like Do like someone who’s gonna pay me money just to come in here and try and dress up their house? Yeah. Oh, this is great. This is great. So the first thing that I did on that site is I worked for free, and it’s unpopular, and people don’t like to hear that. But I just needed to build up my portfolio. Right. And so I and I, it could have been a confidence issue at the time, but I just didn’t feel right, charging people money for something that I was still kind of, I feel like at the time maybe experimenting with, right, like I knew how to decorate, I knew how to design. But I hadn’t had like, at that time-paid clients, I had decorated all my friends and family’s house, I’ve been doing showers and all that stuff for them. But like, literally, I didn’t have anyone come up and say, Hey, I’m a paying client, you know, and I need to invoice them and put together structures on stuff. And so it was really good that I was working for free, because then I was able to appropriately, you know, really say it takes me this many hours, right? To put together the design, it takes us this long to shop. I no longer have to visit, you know, seven to eight different stores, by literally being able to say this is what I’m doing all day. And this is the justification for why you should be paying this amount of money with the invoice. So I did that. And like I said, it’s always unpopular, but it’s not really working for free. If you think about it, it’s really marketing and advertising, right. And you’re able to get the learning curve as far as like your packages and job sites and how many extra people you need. And honestly, when you’re not charging people, they’re way more lenient with you. They’re way more understanding, right. It’s a weird tiller.

Heather Pearce Campbell  36:43

Yeah. Yeah. Well, it’s a really good point you make like even the you know, the painful part of the process being that you didn’t get paid. But the upside is that you had all this information to work with, after you’d probably done a few of those where suddenly you come into your pricing and how you’re going to structure your services with a lot more information than somebody who’s trying to figure that out at the very start. Right. And that becomes an informed approach.

Ashley Ann Jones  37:11

You know, and it was really easy to say, I charged this amount of money and for people to pay it because I had a portfolio now, right? I had worked in Vegas, I had clients or referrals to say, Yeah, I worked with Ashley, she did a great job. You know, this is what happened during this project. So I’m like, I would encourage anybody, whatever it is that you’re doing, you know, and I know, you know, all over the internet, they’re gonna tell you get paid what you’re worth, you don’t do anything for free. It’s not free. It’s marketing and advertising. Okay, you really don’t know what you’re worth yet, because you haven’t kicked out any work. So all of this, right? Yeah, you go and you build up that portfolio and you get all that learning experience. So you can go out and then build a really super successful business.

Heather Pearce Campbell  37:56

Well, and I you know, I appreciate the honesty in that. And, and I think it also reflects the fact that there is no one one way through, there’s no one way to build something or do something or get your start, right, you have to do something that works right for you. And for some people that is the right way, like my sister, who I said is a natural on social media. And she’s a little bit of a unicorn because she lives in the medical sales world, the medical device. And people come to her like she’s coming to Bellevue out right outside of Seattle next week to put on a whole seminar for a whole bunch of people in the industry about how to handle their social media, because they just don’t know, they’ve got office managers, they have as the Titian’s, they have individuals within their business that are just trying to make their way through. And people are also starting to hire her one on one. But guess what she said to me, I offered them an hour of my strategic time for free, because she’s like, I’m just, you know, I’m getting enough of this request, I’m gonna have to figure it out if I want to do it. But I don’t know how I want to structure it. I don’t know what I want to do. So she is doing the exact same thing where she’s just going to serve people, you know, limit her time, but do it in a way that gets her educated as well as them and then she’s gonna have a bunch of raving fans.

Ashley Ann Jones  39:15

Yeah, that’s the easiest way to do it. And I think sometimes people, they’re so focused on a sale, they don’t really think about sustainability, right? Like, we don’t want lightning strikes and like, okay, lightning struck there once. We don’t want that. We want to be able to call in the rain and call in the storm whenever we feel like it. And when you’re just kind of doing all this one off stuff. You know you don’t have control, right? Like I’m like, right now, I’ve been really focused on these, like, endemic millionaires, right. And they’re all popping up and they’re like, Oh, I’m an expert in business because I made, you know, a quarter of a million or I made 300,000. Last year I made, you know, 700,000 or even crossed a million dollars. And now we’ve gotten into 2022 Right and people are back Like outside people, right? They’re not really glued to their computers can because I think a lot of us, like, I know, I was guilty of this, when I was at home, I was ordering everything because I was in the house, I’m gonna fix this, we’re gonna change that I’m gonna move this over, we need to have this at home, because we’re all gonna be here, you know, for the next. I hadn’t had any idea it was gonna be two years when it first started, right? A lot of time in and in the backyard and around and, and, you know, this is what I want to do. And so well, now people are back outside, and they’re not glued to their phones anymore. And, you know, they have other options and stuff. And so now there’s the math, a math and a lot of these people’s accounts, and they can’t figure out, well, how did I go from 500,000. And I can’t even get to, you know, 30,000 this year, you know, but now they find that now they’re out here telling people Oh, I’m gonna help you build a business. But no, you didn’t build a business you had you gotta lick, you had a really good year. And in order to build a business, we gotta say how we deal with, like, dozens of bad years, how we get ourselves out of holes, right? We’re able to put together strategies and systems, how we’re eight, right? How are we able to rebound? How do you make it through different administrations, right? Every administration that comes in, they have different laws and rules and tax structures change and all kinds of things by so long, know what I mean?

Heather Pearce Campbell  41:27

There’s so much good stuff in there, it’s, it’s so true. And the way that I think about like, even when you started the example of like, doing services for free, and you’re creating some raving fans, and yes, they’re gonna be lenient with you, and you learn all this stuff, but it’s like, whatever I do in my business, I think of planting seeds. Where am I planting seeds? How, like, we always need to be planting seeds. And, you know, even my sister, like in that little social media example, like, she’s planting a ton of seeds, because she’s willing to show up for people. She’s gonna have a whole forest. Yes, that’s it. And I think if people have that approach, then you don’t see some of these when I was like, I still do free introductory calls for people there 15 minutes, but I will get on and answer questions and help point somebody in the right direction. Because even if they don’t ultimately work with me, they might like, go get us. If I don’t, let’s say I don’t solve their particular problem, and I provide them a referral, they’re going to remember that I spent time on the phone with them and that I was generous in even being willing to connect them or help them find somebody who had solved their problem. And if they know somebody that has a problem that I will solve that I can solve, like, they will send me that referral, I can bank on it every time just, you know, time with people is planting seeds. And so I love people who have that approach in their business of like, not needing to nitpick every little dime or five minutes that they spend here or there. Because I don’t know, I just, I think of the planting seeds analogy. And the folks that I’ve seen do best in business. Like you create raving fans before you’re even charging. 

Ashley Ann Jones  43:12

Yeah, we think though, you said something a while back, that was really important. You know, you have to serve. And realistically, if you don’t have a, if you don’t want to make someone’s day better in some aspect, almost wonder like, should you be in business, right? If I’m always focused on how I can help my client? How can I put a smile on their face? How can I answer a question for them? How can I help them get past their problem? How can I help them get to some type of desired state that they’re trying to reach? That’s my goal, right? And if we can do that, like, honestly, I know, it sounds cliche, but the money will come right. And we’re really focused on how we can help people with a specific thing? How can I serve you in that capacity? The money is gonna come? Because you’re gonna get so good at what you do. People are gonna go, yeah, you need to call him or you need to call her for this specific thing, right? And before you know it, like they’re gonna be in a position like your sister, people just trying to hire you. And you’re like, wait a minute. I’m not even doing this right now. But I’m better about it. Right? Because all these people want this from me. Yes. It’s so true. And I do love that. And you define it? Well, it is about serving and having the heart of a servant of like, how do I help this person solve a problem that they need to solve today? Yeah, yeah, that’s business. Right? It is, it is. Even. Even when you look at the biggest companies in the world, they really aren’t serving some type of need or desire for people, right? You look at a store like Walmart, you know, and initially when they started, it was like, How can I make like more convenient, right? And I’m gonna get all these products and I’m gonna put them in one place, right and they developed and gotten larger and larger. Trying then they were like, well, we’re gonna put food here. And we’re gonna put the auto department in here. And some big Walmart’s in big cities, they have full blown, like household appliances departments, and you can go and buy washers and dryers and refrigerators and stuff. But you know, so now why are you getting your oil change? You’re shopping for a refrigerator, you picked up your groceries? And you went and bought a pair of flip flops, right?

Heather Pearce Campbell  45:23

Isn’t that true? Yeah, yeah, that is truly one stop shopping. What is it that you enjoy the very most about your work?

Ashley Ann Jones  45:36

Ah, all of the people that I get to help get paid doing things that they like to do. When you really think about it, as adults, we spend a third of our waking hours working, that is a lot of time, you should be happy, doing whatever work is for you. And I feel like if I can get people in a place where they’re happy to do what they’re doing, if they’re fulfilled, that’s where you’re gonna be a better mom, you’re gonna be a better dad, you’re gonna be a better spouse, a better neighbor, a better prayer partner, a better sorority sister, whatever it is that you do, you’re gonna be better at it. Because you’re happier, you’re going to be a better parent, right? All of that. And so we can help people make money doing stuff that either isn’t their purpose, or that they really enjoyed doing well, guess what? Now we have money, we have financial security. So now I can really figure out like, what am I really supposed to be doing on the planet Earth? How can I positively impact other people, instead of people that are miserable? You know, I’m saying they’re upset. Their blood pressure’s high. 

Heather Pearce Campbell  46:40

I went to a JOB. 

Ashley Ann Jones  46:42

Yes, Krabby Patty, they got the Sunday night blues, because they’re depressed, they gotta go in on Monday morning. It’s just not a fun life to live, right. So my favorite thing is just being able to help people, like just get paid to do stuff that they like to do.

Heather Pearce Campbell  46:58

I love that so much. But really, I mean that that larger mission is beautiful. Because when people are happy, you’re right, it radiates into every other area of their life, you know, and it’s same like for me, my mission, as an attorney serving small businesses and information entrepreneurs in the online space is that when we can help the mission driven socially conscious ones, when actually create a thriving business. Their families are better, their communities are better. Their work impacts more people. It’s the same right? The rising tide lifts all boats.

Ashley Ann Jones  47:38

That’s right. And if so, I don’t know how to describe how good it feels to be able to wake up in the morning, and you are just excited about your day, right? Because I’ve been in a space where I woke up in the morning, and I was not excited about my day. And I was just like, Ah, here we go again. But to be able to get up and say like, Oh, I get to do this today, you know, exam. It’s, it’s really, I feel like it’s what everybody deserves, you know, and I want to help as many people as possible get there. 

Heather Pearce Campbell  48:13

Oh, I love that. So what are the ways that people can work with you?

Ashley Ann Jones  48:18

Well, the first thing that y’all can pull up on me on social media, I’m on Tiktok and Instagram the most I do have is YouTube and Twitter. But I shouldn’t be ashamed to say that I’m hoping that I won’t take Instagram, at least like three hours a day, but it is my job. But I’m like, that’s where I’m at.

Heather Pearce Campbell  48:36

You’re gonna pass. It is your job, you get a pass, you make up for the time that I am not on social media.

Ashley Ann Jones  48:44

I try and respond to comments people are surprised to this day, I still respond to comments, I still respond to DMS that are grainy, it may take me three or four weeks to respond to your DM because there’s like way more of y’all than they are. But I spent a fair amount of time online just kind of responding to people and talking to people and those sorts of types of things. And then I do free training at least three times a week. So I have this thing called the Commerce Club. And it’s really free like I’m not gonna ask you for any credit card information or anything like that. And you can take the word commerce with the KK Oh him him as 25012858966. And so anytime I’m doing training, I normally will tell you guys what the training is about coupons, meetups, get -togethers. But you know, go check your email. I just dropped a new strategy, free marketing plans, whatever. It’s there. We can do birthday gifts too. That’s a lot of fun.

Heather Pearce Campbell  49:43

Oh I love it. Oh my gosh, it sounds like a lot of fun. It feels like you’ve built some fun into your business model. And for people that are worried like, Oh, I didn’t just write down that number. Don’t worry. We’re going to share how you can get access to her Commerce Club and anything else that you want us to share link wise, including social media handles or profiles at the show notes page, which is I know Ashley, you mentioned being on Instagram and Tiktok the most? Do you have a reference of how people connect with you?

Ashley Ann Jones  50:20

Honestly, just give me a follow in slot in my DM, or if you join the Commerce Club, literally text us and like myself or one of my team members will actually take you back. We’re real people in there. People are always surprised. The first auto responded to say, Hey, you’re on the list now. But literally, you can text us and we will actually write you back.

Heather Pearce Campbell  50:42

That’s awesome. Any other ways that people can get in touch or work with you? How else do you work with your clients,

Ashley Ann Jones  50:50

You always, always can go to our site, which is And you can get a laser session. We do social media audits. We always have some type of product to help you develop your social media, scale your business, understand digital marketing and stuff. And my flagship program is of course called Insta coin. That’s how I fished out all those six and seven figure earners, they come through Insta-Coin Academy. It is a 12 week program, you get a year of mentorship, we do weekly live training and all sorts of stuff in there.

Heather Pearce Campbell  51:21

Oh, I love it. What do you have to say to the folks like me that are like, Oh, I would be terrified of a website audit. I know I need one.

Ashley Ann Jones  51:32

Don’t be afraid everything is to help you get to the goal that you want to reach, right? It’s not a bad thing. It’s just like, hey, here’s some areas of improvement. And you know, everyone’s not a strategist, right? So it’s like, hey, let’s help you get to this goal.

Heather Pearce Campbell  51:49

Are not a strategist on social media, right? They might be experts in their work. I serve so many people in the expert space, but they’re technicians at the end of the day. We’re all technicians and what we’re doing in our business, right? They’re they’re they’re not a strategist when it comes to social media, or they don’t want to be you know what I mean?

Ashley Ann Jones  52:10

Yeah. And so that’s all we just get, we’ll give a simplified, give you a couple of steps and you can get to where you want to go.

Heather Pearce Campbell  52:17

Oh, I love it. Well, actually, it’s been so fun to connect with you, I can totally, I mean, I’ve experienced firsthand why you have such a massive following and why people love connecting with you. So I really appreciate you coming on here today and sharing a bit about how people can improve in this area. It’s super important for online businesses and people who are experts, right?

Ashley Ann Jones  52:41

Absolutely. Thank you so much for having me. And I got one last piece of advice. Okay.

Heather Pearce Campbell  52:46

Well, I was gonna ask you, what do you want to leave us with today?

Ashley Ann Jones  52:51

Get on tick tock or YouTube okay? And or if you can figure out how to do both, do both. At the end of the day. People want to be able to connect with companies and brands and offers via social 75% of people are going to your social media pages before they even pick up the phone and call you by email you google you anything that’s where they’re looking. So you’re doing yourself a disservice to not be there. I’m not saying you have to be a content king or queen. Okay, but you want to be there and you want to try and post something right on a regular basis.

Heather Pearce Campbell  53:28

I love that so true. On TikTok my final question on TikTok is because I’ve heard some mixed advice on  TikTok from people because like I work with plenty of people that are 40 and older, right? They’re not the younger crowd. Are they on TikTok? Do I?

Ashley Ann Jones  53:48

Yeah, how am I so many of them are there. And I think everybody thinks like they have to dance. You know what I mean? I’ll TikTok if I’m gonna be honest, I’m gonna go out and I’m gonna say I feel like TikTok is the anti IG because you know how Instagram things have to be like super curated, really editorial ready, so beautiful, really pretty. People on TikTok, if you go over there with that stuff, they are going to reject you immediately. People on TikTok, they want to know who you are. They want to talk to you like literally you can get on in the car in your pajamas in a bonnet. You know what I mean? You can respond to hot topics and you can give people helpful tips. You can just want to see they don’t care if you know when your house is a mess. If you burn up dinner you like Daniella burnt up dinner? What should I order tonight? They just really want to know who you are right? And then you can slot in your business stuff and I like it because it takes the pressure off for people like you literally can have a thought right? Recorded in the parking lot before you go into work. And go on about your day. And then the beautiful thing about it is when people comment, just video reply to the comments and you will find that you will start to grow so fast. I do feel that it’s the easiest platform to grow on right now.

Heather Pearce Campbell  55:03

So interesting. I love that. Okay, folks, you heard it here. You gotta get over to TikTok even if you’ve been resisting it, or YouTube or both, preferably both.

Ashley Ann Jones  55:13

Yes. Now what is YouTube got put in a little work right on that content. And people that I’ve seen pick up 100-200,000 followers in the past year or two on YouTube. At this point, they’re putting out like new content, like almost two, three times a day. And they’re live streaming about two or three times a week. And so if you don’t have the capacity to do that, that’s why I said TikTok is really easy. You don’t want to, you don’t have to put out that much content. You literally can just get on top of your puppets. Little quick snippets, like 15 seconds, seven seconds, maybe 63 minutes at max. Right? They do have the thing to do 10 minutes now, nobody’s paying that, at least not yet. No one’s doing 10 minutes on tick tock, it’s all short form. Thank you literally can just hold up your phone, talk to that camera, or show what’s going on? It’s a win win.

Heather Pearce Campbell  56:05

Yeah. On YouTube, is it longer form content?

Ashley Ann Jones  56:08

Longer form content, but they want to see a lot of it. And they are definitely showing a preference right now to people that are live streaming. And like I said, a lot of them are doing well. They’re going live with their community, like two, three times a week.

Heather Pearce Campbell  56:21

Got it. Wow, those are great tips for anybody listening. And, you know, I think for so many entrepreneurs, like, we’re well past the day of talking about like, do I need to be doing video? And we all know the answer is yes. But it’s just how do we do it in a way that works, right? With the flow of our days, the flow of our business, the flow of our lives, if you need help reaching out to somebody like Ashley, because you just make it feel like so much more fun than it otherwise is, if we’re left to our own devices.

Ashley Ann Jones  56:54

It’s fun, and it’s easy. And if you’re camera shy, you’re gonna put your face on the camera. I know ways to get your arm around that. So it’s all to the good. Whatever it is you want to do. Or as this is something that my mom, how about whatever you want in life wants you back. Okay, we’ll figure out a way to do it.

Heather Pearce Campbell  57:14

I love that whatever you want in life wants you back including your social media presence. Yeah. All right, actually. Yeah, and I’m such a fan. And thank you so much for joining us today.

Ashley Ann Jones  57:25

Thank you so much for having me.

GGGB Outro  57:30

Thank you for joining us today on the Guts, Grit and Great Business™ podcast. We hope that we’ve added a little fuel to your tank, some coffee to your cup and pep in your step to keep you moving forward in your own great adventures. For key takeaways, links to any resources mentioned in today’s show and more, see the show notes which can be found at Be sure to subscribe to the podcast and if you enjoyed today’s conversation, please give us some stars and a review on Apple podcasts, Spotify or wherever you get your podcast so others will find us too. Keep up the great work you are doing in the world and we’ll see you next week.