With Brian Bogert, a passionate human behavior and performance coach, speaker, business strategist, top sales professional and philanthropic leader who believes in helping growth-minded individuals achieve the best version of themselves: their most authentic selves.

Brian teaches how to leverage radical authenticity and awareness to create the intentional life you’ve been dreaming of, but have struggled to create. His revolutionary strategy—embrace pain to avoid suffering—has helped individuals and companies break beyond their normal to achieve the success in life and business that they’ve always wanted.

Join us for this fast-paced and information-packed conversation where Brian shares numerous insights from his own journey involving tragedy and pain, and how he has turned that into purpose and meaning in his life. We cover the important role of pain in our lives, how we can use it to create momentum (instead of staying stuck), and the specifics of how to embrace pain.

You will hear Brian share some of his own powerful stories, as well as some of his clients, including some of the work they have done to work through their own painful experiences and turn them into momentum to create a life they love.

If you want to create a life of no limits and gain freedom, Brian and his team will get you there. Join us for this powerful conversation!

>> Subscribe to Guts, Grit & Great Business on Apple Podcasts

Biggest takeaways (or quotes) you don’t want to miss:

  • Why the single most important thing we can do is become aware of and then take ownership of our triggers.
  • There is no work-life balance; only work-life integration.
  • Embrace pain to avoid suffering.
  • Get moved by what you can do (with that pain or experience), versus staying stuck.
  • “Moved people move people.”

Check out these highlights:

  • 9:00 Listen to the life changing event (and tragedy) that changed Brian’s life forever.
  • 12:15 Hear how Brian learned to “embrace pain to avoid suffering.”
  • 18:36 Pain points to what’s important. Pain gives us perspective.
  • 26:40 Listen to Brian talk about the importance of becoming aware of our triggers.
  • 38:14 I think we can reverse engineer behavioral patterns and environmental conditioning if we understand our triggers.
  • 45:10 How to embrace pain to avoid suffering: Acknowledge the suffering we wish to avoid.
  • 51:35 “Turn pain into purpose. Turn pain into meaning. Turn pain into perspective to keep you moving.”

How to get in touch with Brian:

On social media:

On LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brianbogert/

On Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/brian.bogert.3

On Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/bogertbrian/


Get access to Brian’s FREE Gift, a No Limits Alignment Guide here.

Find out more at Brian’s website here.

Imperfect Show Notes

We are happy to offer these imperfect show notes to make this podcast more accessible to those who are hearing impaired or those who prefer reading over listening. While we would love to offer more polished show notes, we are currently offering an automated transcription (which likely includes errors, but hopefully will still deliver great value), below.

GGGB Intro  00:00

Here’s what you get on today’s episode of Guts, Grit & Great Business™.

Brian Bogert  00:05

So aware is the first step like we have to be aware. So we need to start to understand what emotion or emotional triggers exists in our world. And I’m a firm believer that if each one of us truly knew the top one or two emotional triggers that have affected our lifetimes, and we were able to normalize it through conversation, bring it to awareness. Like that is the singular thing that would free people. I believe that and I’ve witnessed it in the work that we do with high performers. So aware is the first step. The next step is ownership. We literally own it. We need to literally acknowledge Yep, okay, I’m affected by shame. Yep, my shame has actually caused me to react in moments, and it’s actually caused damage for other people in my life. So ownership looks like I need to accept it to myself, but it also means I need to accept it with the people in my life, whether it’s co workers, family, friends, right, we have to live into it and own it. By the way, that’s where I think most people stop.

GGGB Intro  00:59

The adventure of entrepreneurship and building a life and business you love, preferably at the same time is not for the faint of heart. That’s why Heather Pearce Campbell is bringing you a dose of guts, grit and great business stories that will inspire and motivate you to create what you want in your business and life. Welcome to the Guts, Grit & Great Business™ podcast where endurance is required. Now, here’s your host, The Legal Website Warrior®, Heather Pearce Campbell.  

Heather Pearce Campbell  01:32

Alrighty, welcome. I am Heather Pearce Campbell, The Legal Website Warrior®. I’m an attorney and legal coach based here in Seattle, Washington working with entrepreneurs around the world. Welcome to another episode of Guts, Grit & Great Business. I am so excited to bring you my new friend, a friend of a friend, Brian Bogert today. Welcome Brian.

Brian Bogert  01:59

I’m just I’m happy to be here, Heather. I mean, this was a long journey to get our time together. So you know, the universe is meant to happen, and we’re gonna drop fire today. I’m sure of it.

Heather Pearce Campbell  02:08

That’s right. Well, we were laughing before we went live like the planets must have aligned. We’ve tried multiple times to get our schedules to line up and Brian had a fire near his house. There was some crazy stuff going on before but Brian, really good to have you here today. I’m so excited. For folks that don’t know Brian, let me introduce his companies and then Brian individually. Brian, his company is called the Brian Bogert Companies, LLC. It is a human behavior and performance company that focuses on making people’s best better. They identify ways for their clients to raise their level of awareness and intentionality to become who they already are their most authentic selves. Their mission is to help their clients and growth minded individuals learn this transformative approach that cultivates perspective, motivation and direction to align personal goals that will defy expectations and bring joy, freedom and fulfillment into all areas of life. They are on a mission to impact 1 billion lives by 2045. I love that summary. That’s awesome, Brian. Brian as an individual is a passionate human behavior and performance coach, Speaker business strategist, top sales professional and philanthropic leader who believes in helping growth minded individuals achieve the very best version of themselves their most authentic self, he teaches how to leverage radical authenticity and awareness to create the intentional life you’ve been dreaming of, but have struggled to create his revolutionary strategy. Embrace pain to avoid suffering has helped individuals and companies break beyond their normal to achieve the success in life and business that they’ve always wanted. If you want to create a life of no limits and gain freedom, Brian and his team will get you there. And as I was mentioning, Brian was in well probably still is in fire country. He’s down in the Phoenix area. So we were having chat about weather and fans and you guys are probably up over 100 degrees.

Brian Bogert  04:14

We’re 115 degrees. And anybody who’s from Arizona will probably agree with this I think anything over 110 all starts to feel the same it’s just really hot. That’s brutal air conditioners struggle to keep up it’s it’s one of those things.

Heather Pearce Campbell  04:29

Oh my goodness, well, so grateful that you are sweating it out. Your fans are on which is awesome. We’ll hopefully keep those on for you. But Welcome. I’m so happy to have you, Brian.

Brian Bogert  04:40

Yeah, I’m just I’m you know, I feel blessed that you have built the platform to put good into the world and I have got the opportunity to be with you. So it’s gonna be great.

Heather Pearce Campbell  04:47

It is gonna be great. And you know, we’ve connected briefly before, but I think I mentioned the reason I launched my podcast last year in the middle of COVID is because I really thought like, gosh, COVID has hit, it’s gonna be rough on a lot of people. And it’s gonna be really rough on a lot of entrepreneurs and small business owners. And I’ve had a long standing relationship to grit and endurance and perseverance and all the things and I thought, you know, maybe we can just add some interesting conversations to the marketplace that will keep people going and not giving up and staying on their path in life and in business. And so this podcast has conversations across all areas in both sides, right? You don’t you don’t build one without the other.

Brian Bogert  05:32

Yeah, well, so I don’t believe in work life balance anywhere. I believe in work life integration, we’ve got one life, it’s, you know, you got to put the focus where it needs at the time, and it ebbs and flows naturally. And as long as you’re intentional and you build your life of alignment, right, it becomes self regulating. That’s just how it works. So we can’t just talk business, we can’t just talk life, and then anybody that’s like, Oh, I’m a business coach, or I’m a life coach, or I’m a health coach, like, you have to understand all the variables, because it’s in the aggregate that we really move and grow.

Heather Pearce Campbell  05:56

That’s right, it’s well, and having that holistic view, even law, I look at the way that I support providing legal structure and legal supports for businesses, legal in and of itself, I consider a business system. It’s one of the systems you plug into your business, and it should integrate with all your other systems, right? And life is the same way. So I love that that there is no work life balance, shows work life integration, because otherwise, if you view it as somehow needing to be balanced, or fitting in containers, I find that the frustration levels are just through the roof.

Brian Bogert  06:33

Because you set yourself up for failure. Yeah, I mean, there’s no way I mean, balance inherently implies that, right? There’s equal parts in certain places. And that’s just not how life works, particularly for individuals that have to work, right, if they aren’t someone who stays at home, which is a full time job as well, by the way, so I don’t in any way mean to minimize that. But if you are having to go out of your home for work, right, it’s difficult. And and if you’re setting up with this idea of balance, it doesn’t exist. And so we just, it can’t be looked at in terms of amount of time, it has to be looked at in quality of time. And where is your intention and your focus?

Heather Pearce Campbell  07:09

I love that. Yeah, I’ve I’ve tried to adopt, like the, the way that I describe it, it’s a little bit like flow, but more like an art. If I can look at the arc of my week and say that overall, there’s balance or there’s, you know, the blend of how I like things to be overall goal accomplished. 

Brian Bogert  07:34

And by the way, we just talked about this, right? I mean, perfect example is my last week, right? I typically put my I have dinner with my kids and wife almost every night, five to six nights a week unless I’m traveling or there’s an event or something right and put them to bed almost every single night. Every single night since last Thursday, we had a we had an event I was speaking I had my team in town, we were running with different things. And literally Thursday night, Friday night, Saturday night, and I was gone all weekend for the event. Sunday night, we had a team building event. Monday night, we had people at our house, right? And then it’s so it’s like, I have five to six nights now where it’s completely flip flopped. Guess what that means that as soon as that settles down, I double down on the other side, because it’s not about making up for it’s just that that’s been lacking in terms of how it’s integrated into my life. It’s I’m out of alignment right now. It’s been hard. It’s been difficult because my bucket gets filled with my family. So guess what, when it gets out of whack, we are the only ones who can bring it back into alignment. Yeah,

Heather Pearce Campbell  08:28

Well, and it’s Yeah, I love that, that feeling of of knowing like, Okay, I’m out of alignment, but there’s a path to get back. Right. And again, it’s, you know, doubling down or whatever it takes to make that reconnect. So,Brian, I’m curious about your roots. I want to hear how like where your path, you know, into whatever you call your field, human potential or whatever, you know, I’m not sure how you would sum it up in like, just a couple words. how you got started on that path?

Brian Bogert  09:01

Yeah, so I’m gonna ask you and anybody who’s listening or watching, just close your eyes for a second unless you’re driving because we certainly don’t want you doing that. Keep your eyes open. If you’re driving. And I want you to imagine going to a store. Having a successful shopping trip, breezing through the checkout lines, like we all know what that feels like. It’s easy, it’s fun, it’s great. Get through the door, you’re walking outside, you look up, you feel the warmth of the sun on your skin, you feel the breeze through your hair, and you just have a little pep in your step because you know, you’ve got a great day ahead of you. You get up to your car, you’re getting to grab your keys. And as you’re going to unlock your door, you turn your head and you see a truck barreling 40 miles an hour right out, you have no time to react. Got an open your eyes. That’s what this portion of my story begins. My mom My brother and I went to our local Walmart to get a one inch paint brush. And as we were headed to our car, I’ve always had an exciting vigor for life. You can probably tell in the first couple of minutes of this I’ve got a lot of energy so of course it didn’t surprise them. I was the first one to the car. I wanted to get home and put that paintbrush to use. And as I was standing there, my mom and brother who Only a few feet behind me. I was waiting for him to catch up and unlock the doors. But this is back in the day before key fobs. So there was no unlocking it, I had to wait for her to literally get the physical key, put it in the door, turn it so we go on with our way. And as I was standing there, a truck pulls up in front of the store, driver and middle passenger get out on the passenger all the way to the right and fills the truck moving backwards. So he did what any one of us would do, and he scooted over to put his foot on the brake. But he instead hit the gas combination of shock and force through him up on the steering wheel up on the dashboard. And before you know it, he was kind of holding 40 miles an hour across the parking lot right at us with no time to react. Now we were in an N spot. So he goes up and over the medium, he goes up and over the tree in the medium, he hits our car, knocks me over, runs over me diagonally tears my spleen, leaves a tire truckster on my stomach and continues on to completely sever my left arm from my body. So there I am laying on the parking lot on 115 degree day in Phoenix, Arizona, my mom and brother watched the whole thing happen and they look up and they see my arm laying 10 feet away in the parking lot. Fortunately for me, my guardian angel also saw the whole thing happen. There was a nurse that walked out of the store right when this took place. And she came over because she saw the literal life and limb scenario in front of her and she chose to move into action. I’m forever indebted that she chose to do that versus turn her head and walk away. She came over and stopped the bleeding on the main wound and saved my life. And then she instructed some innocent bystanders to run inside, grab a cooler, fill it with ice and put my detached limb on ice within minutes to give me a fighting chance of having it reattached. So Heather had it not bend for this woman, I either wouldn’t be here with you today, or I wouldn’t be here or I’d be here today with the cleaned up stump. That’s just the facts. So I know I have a really unique story. And I know that probably you and others in this in the audience weren’t expecting it to go there today. And I am the more I’ve done this, the more I realized that I’m not the only one with a unique story. We all have one. We all have unique stories. What’s important is that we pause, become aware of the lessons we can extract from those stories and then become intentional and how do we apply them in our lives. So I’ll share two primary lessons because it’s going to lead you to how I got to where I’m at. The first is I learned not to get stuck by what has happened to me, but instead get moved by what I can do with it. And the second I didn’t realize right away, you see it 789 10 1112 years old. Although I was very aware of what was happening to me, although I was the one having the surgeries done to me. Although I was the one having to put in the work in occupational and physical therapy. I was also in a fog. Because I was being guided through the process by my parents who were not in a fog. You see, they were intimately aware of the unceasing medical treatments, years of physical therapy. And the idea of seeing their son grow up without the use of his left arm was a source of great potential suffering for them. So they willed themselves day in and day out to do what was necessary, what was tough to embrace the pains required to ultimately strengthen and heal me. So whether it was intentional or not, what they did was they ingrained in me a philosophy and a way of living, which was to embrace pain to avoid suffering. And I believe when this is done, right, that’s also where we gained freedom. So it was these two concepts that I used to not only work on this unique injury, but how my business partners and I scaled our last business from zero to over 15 million within the span of a decade, and how now I flipped that on its head as the human behavior and performance coach tells me individuals and organizations just like you just like the people listening, do what you described in the bio become more aware, more intentional, and who they already are. You see, I believe that that’s where joy, freedom and fulfillment come in. And that’s why we’re on a mission to impact a billion lives. Because if we can reduce the level of suffering on this planet, allow people to truly experience joy, freedom and fulfillment in their lives. That’s also where the glue that binds human connection starts to come back in because vulnerability and authenticity, which are the glue that binds human connection can exist. People can stand on their own two feet, confident in who they are, and convicted in who they are, and know that the world won’t just accept them for who they are, but will embrace them for that. And this is what’s gonna make the world a more beautiful place for our kids and our grandkids.

Heather Pearce Campbell  13:54

Oh, absolutely. Well, that phrase, you know, they are convicted and who they are. So just so powerful. I mean, if you’ve spent any time in the presence of somebody who really knows who they are, versus somebody who like you feel that you feel that difference, you know, it, it emanates from somebody versus versus the opposite. And that’s I mean, that is quite a story. You’re right, that it was probably not what most of us were expecting. The talk to me about the the concept of embracing pain. What does that what does that mean?

Brian Bogert  14:29

Yeah, it’s a great question. So I mean, first of all, the world literally tells us to reduce, eliminate or avoid pain, like that’s what we hear. That’s the narrative, it’s painkillers. It’s numbing mechanisms, it doesn’t matter. And oh, by the way, that’s consistent with the natural evolutionary response, which was based in survival. 100 years ago, you get a cut on your leg, you could die. That’s not the world we live in anymore, but we’re conditioned into it and we certainly lean into it. So we have to understand pain and we have to understand suffering to understand this concept. So pain is defined as short term intervention. A direct cause from something and alleviates once that direct causes removed. And what we do as humans is we screw it up by putting adjectives in front of it like we do with everything else, right? So we call then call it acute pain and chronic pain. Well, acute maintains the definition, but chronic inherently changes it because it implies that it’s no longer short term. And it persists after the direct direct causes ruined. So can we just stop calling that chronic pain and call it what it really is it’s suffering. Now, we don’t want to admit that suffering exists, particularly when it’s a direct result of our choices, right. But pain gets lots of attention, because we feel it, we know it, it’s there. The thing about pain that’s difficult, though, is it subjective, it can’t be measured independent of the person experiencing it. But there’s one thing we know about pain, it’s a universal human experience. So if we rephrase these things, and we understand, okay, let’s not call it chronic pain anymore, it’s pain and suffering. What does this concept mean? We can embrace the pain of hitting the gym for 30 minutes a day, to avoid the suffering of aches and pains of a sedentary lifestyle, we can embrace the pain of a difficult conversation with our spouse or loved one, to avoid the suffering of a loveless marriage that’s going to end in divorce or being stuck in a marriage, when we want divorce, we can embrace the pain of the fit, our kids are sure to throw by having him put down their digital devices at the dinner table to avoid the suffering of years of loss, meaningful connection and conversation, we’ll never get back. And as business owners, because I always have to relate it to that, we can embrace the pain of firing our top salesperson who’s contributing the most of top line growth, to avoid the suffering of stagnant growth and growth and losing all our other top talent. Because they’re the greatest cancer in our culture. And this goes on, right? This goes on in every category of life, just like you said, it’s work, it’s personal, it’s in service to others, when we truly start to recognize that pain is one of the critical tools to us getting freedom. And to us actually being able to chase success, it starts to help us understand a little bit better. And so I believe that we all must choose our pain, or our suffering will choose us.

Heather Pearce Campbell  17:00

Oh, totally. The The thing that I find so interesting about pain, and you know, we all I think even through our work, we’re all trying to solve some sort of pain in the world, right? All of us are problem solvers in in a specific niche or field. And the thing that’s fascinating to me about pain, and I’ve done some previous episodes on physical pain, I mean, you know, I haven’t had a limb severed, but I’ve read all

Brian Bogert  17:25

It’s it’s physical, it’s emotional and spiritual, it’s perceived,

Heather Pearce Campbell  17:29

All kinds. The comment that I was about to make was just that, when we have pain present, man, are we motivated to do something about it? Right? Like when it’s there, it’s like, Okay, I think then the fire gets lit. Yeah. But talk to me about the part of human nature that is less inclined to take action until pain arrives, right? Because I think sometimes it’s, you know, it’s just how life works. Sometimes we don’t make those dramatic, even internal shifts, until something really dramatic happens that forces it. Right. Talk to me about that dynamic, because I think most most people, and I would guess that anybody listening, you can look around in your life and see people that are proactive about their pain, versus the folks that for lack of a better word, let’s just say stay asleep for a time until they get the brick in the face and then are responsive to the pain. But I you know, my personal opinion is that more people fall into that second bucket.

Brian Bogert  18:36

Yeah, so 100% agree. And I think you said something that was really powerful, which is essentially my answer. I think pain points is what’s important. Pain gives us perspective, right? But often, we don’t necessarily recognize pain, meaning we’re not aware of pain, right? We aren’t aware of those pains, particularly if they’re an emotional pain or spiritual or something, because we’re the nerves of the world is to just shove that down and show up with a smile on our face. So we literally just suppress things, right? to a point where tierpoint a brick in the face causes us to see it. And we’re like, oh, crap, I need to make some changes. Yeah, and this is one of the reasons that I say so often. And there’s two things I’m gonna say here. But the first is, our minds process 11 million bits of information per second. But we’re only consciously aware of about 40. So what that suggests literally, is that we are largely led by the unconscious, which is not a surprise when people feel like they’re a victim. Like they feel like life is fate, like they have no influence or control of their destinies. Because until you go through a systematic process of moving the unconscious to the conscious, the unaware to the aware, guess what, you can’t be intentional with anything. And so it’s course going to feel like you are a victim in fate. The second side of this is that so many people because they lack awareness, don’t truly understand the meaning of why they need to move. We’re taught to mask we’re taught to show up with a smile. And so the thing that I’m going to say Is that so often people think they’re stuck stymied in their filler potential feel like a victim or fate, not just because a lack of awareness but because the narrative of the world is also you have the wrong strategy and tactics in your life. If you just do X, you will be happier. If you just do X, you will have less pain. What I know definitively, this is my belief. What I know definitively is what actually keeps people stuck. It’s not strategy and tactics is they’re really important, but they’re only going to get you so far. It’s a combination of emotional triggers, behavioral patterns, and environmental conditioning that keep people in that self defeating place. So until something hits them in the face, where they realize, oh, wow, I’m not just in a great amount of pain, but I’m maybe even suffering, they don’t really get the initiative to do much about it.

Heather Pearce Campbell  20:44

Okay, let’s pause to hear from today’s sponsor. Today’s episode sponsor is both Pierce Law PLLC. Home to my legal practice here in Seattle, Washington, as well as the legal website warrior, and online business and brand dedicated to supporting the legal needs of information entrepreneurs. These include consultants, coaches, online experts, and educators, speakers, authors, industry leaders, influencers, transformational leaders, community builders, podcasters. People in this space go by a variety of titles. But essentially, their businesses look alike. They are building businesses based around a body of work and information that they have created. That gets delivered in a variety of ways, including generally through an online base, the home base in the online space. Thus, my branding, the legal website, warrior, I’m dedicated first and foremost to protecting online brands, helping them stay safe, helping them navigate the legal rules that exist and apply to the online world, as well as take care of and protect the offline portion of their businesses as well. There’s so much that these entrepreneurs do in the offline work and their business as well. And there regardless of what you call yourself, regardless of what your business is about, you do not get to the position of scaling and growing and creating the influence that you want in the world and becoming an industry leader without essential legal support. So if you are in the space of information entrepreneurs that I serve, I would invite you to reach out and connect with me, you are also welcome to check out a free resource that I have built you can find it at legal website warrior comm forward slash legal basics boot camp, it is my free legal basics boot camp that I have prepared just for you so that you have the map, what I find, and let’s be clear that the traditional legal model tremendously underserved a certain portion of the small business community. And that is why I’ve set about to create a set of resources, documentation, education, etc. that supports people in this space. My legal basics boot camp is going to walk you through a framework that I developed that helps you understand the roadmap for your legal needs. This way you can stop cherry picking your needs in the dark without the map and start making decisions that have legal ramifications for your business. From the standpoint of being empowered from the standpoint of understanding what your legal priorities are and being able to choose those intentionally and knowing what they’re going to do for you and your business. So connect with me at legal website warrior comm forward slash legal basics boot camp where you can get my free resource. You can also find me online at Pierce law services comm which is just an online space holder for Pierce law pllc my legal practice based here in Washington State. Again, congrats on your journey. I’m honored to have intersected your path and be a small part of it through hosting this podcast and if I can support you in any way, reach out. Okay, back to today’s amazing guest. A couple things one, the emotional triggers. I think a lot of people get stumped right there. Right? They, they don’t and I mean, as parents we all get to examine our own emotional triggers right there like on display on the daily right, we really learned to repair it ourselves through our children and so be emotional triggers like we can go way deep down in that road, but I think that that you’re right, it starts there and it also can stop there for a lot of people. Yeah,

Brian Bogert  24:59

And I think Because they get stuck in a certain part of the process. So I’ve developed this idea that I believe over the years of working with this, right, I think that so many people take the outside in approach to emotional triggers, right, which is where they react. But if you take the inside out approach, it allows you to respond. So help me help you understand what this concept is, right? Because I think that’s what we really want emotional triggers caused us to react to respond, by the way, a trigger is designed to be pulled, right? So you can either be pulled by your emotional triggers, or you can pull the trigger on your emotional triggers. Right. So it’s your choice, you can choose the inside out method that we developed, I think that most people go through the first two stages if they are aware of it. And the first step is literally become aware of what’s the emotion that you’re feeling? Is it shame? Is it fear? Is it anger? Is it guilt? Right? No, by the way, I believe that the greatest, most common emotional trigger is shame based shame is the ultimate wolf in sheep’s clothing, because it manifests and shows up as so many different things. Okay,

Heather Pearce Campbell  25:53

Totally Like, Oh, go ahead. No, I was gonna say like, anger, I feel like is a very common emotion that, you know, many of us experience but that’s really masking a much anger. 

Brian Bogert  26:04

It’s, it’s a default emotion, you go to it as a result to cover up something else,

Heather Pearce Campbell  26:08

Right, either sadness, or shame or something that’s much deeper. 100%.

Brian Bogert  26:13

So aware is the first step like we have to be aware. So we need to start to understand what emotion or emotional triggers exists in our world. And I’m a firm believer that if each one of us truly knew the top one or two emotional triggers that have affected our lifetimes, and we were able to normalize it through conversation, bring it to awareness. Like that is the singular thing that would free people. I believe that and I’ve witnessed it in the work that we do with high performers. So aware is the first step. The next step is ownership. We literally own it. We need to literally acknowledge Yep, okay, I’m affected by shame. Yep, my shame has actually caused me to react in moments. And it’s actually caused damage for other people in my life. So ownership looks like I need to accept it to myself. But it also means I need to accept it with the people in my life, whether it’s co workers, family, friends, right, we have to live into it and own it. By the way, that’s where I think most people stop.

Heather Pearce Campbell  27:06

Well, that part is hard. That’s hard. But that’s where most people get and then stop. Right. Right. And I think if I weren’t, and I don’t know, I’m not an expert on, you know, all of this that you’re talking about. But my guess is that that cycle of taking ownership and actually realizing like what you’re doing is inflicting harm on others, like triggers the shame cycle, although

Brian Bogert  27:30

It does, and that’s why it’s really important to go beyond Yeah, that’s where most people stop. And you’re right ownership, by the way, aware is hard. But it’s way easier than ownership. Right? ownership is really difficult, like really difficult. But a lot of people get there, but you’re right, it keeps them cycling. Okay, the next steps were really starts to come to fruition, we got to unroot we literally need to understand the root or roots of that emotion. Okay, so is it is my shame based on the fact that I was always compared to my sibling when I was growing up is my shame. Because I grew up in a really tight religious environment that kept me confined and right what I was doing right shame shows up as you should do this, you should be that you should be that you shouldn’t do that you shouldn’t chase this amount of money, right? And so it implies that whatever you’re doing isn’t good enough, shame based. So we need to unrouted right, literally get to the root or roots. Because that also helps you understand in those moments, is it because my wife looked at me incorrectly because I loaded the dishwasher wrong? Or was it because that’s how my grandma looked at me when I was five. Right? It’s it’s typically not having anything to do with the moment, right, you have to get to the root or roots. Most people don’t do that. And by getting to the root or roots, what you’re allowed to do then is move into movement. And what that means is, is once you identify it, movement is how does this emotion move in my body? And how do I move through it? Because Oh, by the way, shame shows up in multiple different ways for multiple different people. So literally, how does an emotion manifests? Right? Do I feel a pit in my stomach? Do I feel sweating? Do I feel a heat wave over? Does my mouth dry out? Do I start chewing my lip? Like legitimately like it shows up different? Yeah, I’ve suffered deeply from shame. I have about six different shame triggers in the way that they actually manifest in my body. But I understand that because once I understand in the moment how I’m feeling it, I can start to identify what triggers that feeling?

Heather Pearce Campbell  29:19

Oh, absolutely.

Brian Bogert  29:20

I have six different ways that manifest in my body and about 100 different ways I’m triggered by it. And so then you can start tying patterns to Okay, when I get this pit in my stomach around shame. This is what starts to take place. When someone tells me that I talk too fast or I’m too loud. I want to shrink myself to make myself small. When my wife starts to get on me about something that she’s just implying I could slightly improve or I could be thoughtful of as a husband or father, I immediately go to defensiveness because that’s the most important role for me. And I list off the 10 things that I did in the last four days. That made me a great husband and father because that defensiveness, I can prove it. No, I’m a great husband and father, right? But these are all triggers. And we’ve got to understand how They show up. And then where do we get triggered? Because it’s in those moments that we can pause and ask ourselves is what I’m experiencing in the moment true to my belief system? And how I show up? Or is it something that’s rooted beyond? And then I can also pause and choose in those moments to choose a different path and create a new pattern.

Heather Pearce Campbell  30:21

Yeah, well, that creating the new pattern, I mean, must just feel like absolute freedom for somebody that has been caught in the trigger cycle. And then the behavioral patterns, right, that are generally a result of that cycle. Talk, talk to me about the relationship between emotional triggers behavioral patterns, right? And then I think the third one was our environmental conditioning or environmental stuff.

Brian Bogert  30:51

So I if you don’t mind, I’m going to answer your question, but I want to really hit outside in because it’s critical to understand Yes, hey, because outside and I wish I could show you it’s like a bull’s eye target, right? Like literally aware on unroot. And then movement. Look at it from the outside in this is, this is what actually happens, we’re literally gonna go outside into that Bullseye is actually masking. Yeah, the world tells us to act, the world tells us to react and tells us to shove our stuff down, show up with a smile on our face, we mask. When we masked or we numb, we don’t unroot we further route in those behavioral patterns, they become more concrete, they become more conditioned, they become more a part of who we are. When we do that, we don’t get ownership, we actually become the victim in that state. So if we go a layer deeper, right, we now become a victim. No wonder people feel like victims, because we mask we further rooted in bad behavioral patterns, and then we become a victim. And aware is no longer aware. We’re blinded.

Heather Pearce Campbell  31:47

And yeah, so you’re talking about the..

Brian Bogert  31:48

Opposite of all of us, right? Yeah, exactly. It’s the exact opposite. But it’s important to understand that because that’s where we can start to separate between the two. Got it? I’m saying national choice, right.

Heather Pearce Campbell  31:59

Typical response. Is this outside in approach?

Brian Bogert  32:03

Yep. teach the world a new way to process and normalize emotions, because it has to happen. Yeah, the relationship between emotional triggers and behavioral patterns and environmental conditioning.

Heather Pearce Campbell  32:13

Yeah. And let’s, before we get there, though, because there was one other thing in your inside out approach that I want to emphasize. Yeah. Which is the relationship between our emotions and how we feel in our bodies, this the physical self, right? Because I think so many of us in different ways have the experience of being conditioned out of our bodies, and being conditioned to literally disconnect from self that like this is a whole new thing actually slowing down long enough to say, how is it that I’m actually feeling what is this right? What is this that I’m feeling? Talk to those folks who have had a longtime experience of being disconnected from their physical selves.

Brian Bogert  32:56

Yeah, and by the way, I was one of those people. When I shut off physical pain, I also sent off emotional pain. And for 25 years, I didn’t have emotional pain, meaning I didn’t feel it. I didn’t know it was there. I didn’t know it was inside of me and my wife joke for 10 years. Dude, you don’t feel anything. I’m like, no inside them. But inside them feelings, all this stuff. But the outside it was either a reaction, or just blank, because I didn’t know what it was. So I want to just say and own it, like I’m sitting here teaching this now. But like, I didn’t feel for 25 years. And so this is a path and a progress that I’m teaching because I had to go through it. Yeah. So often, we don’t know, which is why I say when we do the outside in we mask, right? We we root, we become a victim and we’re blind. I’m gonna give you a really real time example of myself. Okay, and I’ll keep this story short, because I want you to understand, March 4, fifth and sixth, I would have told you that my wife and I, after 14 years together, we’re in the best place we’ve ever been in our marriage, the happiest we’ve ever been in our marriage. And like we were in for the long haul, more connected, more spiritual, more intimate, all these things. Then we started to unpack some stuff. And we became aware of a whole lot of things patterns, emotional triggers, environmental conditioning in ourselves that was there. And I’m not going to talk about both sides of it. Her stories, her story to tell I’m gonna own mine. Okay. It was about a month into this by April 4, fifth, and sixth. I didn’t know if I was gonna be married for another month. And I certainly didn’t know if I’d be married by the end of the year. And what got unpacked in that is my wife owned her truth. I’m literally sitting here today as someone who’s telling you I’m committing my life to helping people discover who they are. And my wife after 14 years, was finally able to articulate that some of the things I did early in our marriage that were based in temper and control 12 to 14 years ago, caused her to lose who she is. That was a soul. Day, more conversations took place. And again, I had to be aware, I own it. I could have reacted in that moment and concreted in her mindset, the belief system that she had, which is no longer true and hasn’t been for a long time. Okay, but then we started to have more conversations and a About a week later, I discovered, I’ve been angry for a long time. I never knew I was angry. Truthfully, like it was buried so deep, it could barely be excavated either. So deep. And when I actually moved to the ownership stage, and I started literally within a matter of days, communicating to people outside of my household, they were like, you’re an angry person, we’ve never seen you be angry. Right? Because I had learned and contained, it’s so tight and buried so deep that guess what the only person in the world that felt it was my wife. And that didn’t always come up. As I’m being abusive. I’m not screaming, I’m not. But I would get triggered and I get this edge about me. Guess what, you don’t have a personality and energy like I do and not have everybody in a room feel it if you’re in a bad mood. All right. Well, I guess for me, I was the only one. I was blind.

Heather Pearce Campbell  35:46

Sorry, no, it’s a great example. And I appreciate you sharing something so intimate. And recent, I think, well, one, just the year that COVID has created for a lot of there’s been a lot of breakdowns, right, there’s been a lot of people going to hard places and ending up in hard places, even though they didn’t feel it was their choice to get there. And I mean, even some parallels in my own marriage with what you’re talking about. I think it’s really easy for us in the pace of modern life. Yeah, to do exactly what you’re talking about, which is to muffle ourselves or, or not fully express, not emo, not let things move through. You know, just because we’re trying to hold it together, or we’re we are in survival mode, or we’ve got, you know, you’re a dad, you’re a husband, you’re a business owner, right, you’ve got all these hats and these things you got to keep in the air. And, you know, I’m sure my husband could relate to so much of what you say because same thing, there sometimes is an edge that comes out and you know, we all have it and you don’t have to necessarily even have a huge personality, like you do for people to feel it. And that’s what is so important about our emotions is that when they are not expressed, and allowed to move through, they leak out in other ways, often and more toxic than Absolutely not. And so I just, that’s

Brian Bogert  37:10

What you don’t want, you don’t understand it. When you don’t when you aren’t aware you don’t own it, you don’t unroot it, you don’t move through it, literally you’re reacting you’re not responding. Right. And so it’s it’s different and reacting typically causes damage to you or those around you. And and that’s just the truth. So I will I will say for everybody who’s listening, my wife and I, because of what I do and what we do together, we were able to take what I would consider decades of healing and compress it into days or weeks. And we I won’t bore everybody with that. But I do want everybody to know like, so we don’t leave that story open. We’re literally standing here today. And we genuinely believe we’ve embraced the pains required to avoid the suffering in our lives. And I genuinely believe just to what you said, so much suffering exists from what’s left unsaid, what we’re unaware of that can’t have words or what we feel, but we don’t feel valid or have the words to describe. This is right, those three things that creates so much suffering in our world. Yes. So when you talked about the relationship with emotional triggers, behavioral patterns, environmental conditioning, I’ll bring it back, we’ll circle, okay, they all matter. And they all feed off each other and complement each other. This is my belief. I’m not saying this is studied. This is my belief. I think you can reverse engineer behavioral patterns and environmental conditioning, if you understand your trigger. Yeah, I think you can acknowledge behavioral patterns and environmental conditioning, but I’m not sure you can get to the core, which to me is the emotional triggers, I think the emotional triggers is the tip of the spear, and behavioral patterns and environmental conditioning shaped them, they conditioned them, they can alter them. But you can also alter your patterns. And you can also alter your conditioning, it’s much more difficult to alter your triggers, because you never escape them. You never escape those emotions, their adversary is always in constant pursuit. The thing is, when you move through them, they trigger you less often. Yeah, they are less damaging on the back end, because you get to respond versus react, you’re aware of them, you can be intentional with them. Right. And so that’s why I think it’s so critical. We need to normalize emotional triggers. Because if that was in our business, and our relationships, and our politics, and our sports, and we truly could just acknowledge that we’re all we all have them. We’re all affected by them all walk around with little walk around with them. And if we normalize that, it’s like, Hey, you know, when you did that it made me trigger and that’s not your fault. Right? It might not be my fault, either. But is it potentially both of our responsibility? If we want to enhance this relationship? And the answer is almost always Yes. We don’t do that we avoid?

Heather Pearce Campbell  39:33

Well, and this you know, this concept of emotional triggers. I’m curious what your thoughts are, because I think there’s a variety of ways that you can find in the marketplace that people teach on emotional triggers, right, this idea of really doing Shadow Work, right examining what is it that generally we’re trying to avoid something right when we’re triggered? So let’s say that it’s shame based and that we had a parent that got asked like, I look at my son who is ADHD Right, and I have a husband who I suspect at a young age was ADHD. And I was recently part of a panel, it was actually in regards to enneagram work different than what we’re talking about here, but type one, and what stood out, we were a panel of ones. And what stood out about his childhood experience that he shared was that he had a dad, who, anytime his energy got a little out of bounds, or he started doing something that was a little too crazy, or he got just like a little bit, you know, too much. Like, you know, something was usually breaking or he, you know, I mean, his dad would freak out. And so he, as an adult has a really hard time, like being fully himself and fully embodied and like to never let himself have too much fun, right. And part of me was even triggered hearing that thinking about probably my husband’s experience as a kid, my own son’s experience as a kid, like when we go out into social settings, or, you know, even on the streets of Seattle, he was a two year old that refused to hold my hand in busy traffic, and we just have to leave, I’d be like, okay, we can’t walk to the space. 

Brian Bogert  41:14

I think you’re exactly right, so much is in the in the history, it’s in the things that have shaped us, it’s in his interactions. And that’s typically how we start with all of our clients that we do one to one work with, is literally like, start at the beginning, you remember, right, and we start to unpack from there. Because so often, we really do find that those things are deeply rooted. They are things that we’re unaware of, right. And I’ll give you a couple of examples so that people can relate and emotional triggers, right look like a 50 year old woman who’s a very successful entrepreneur, very successful lawyer, but never made over a quarter million dollars a year, which again, to a lot of people’s a lot of money. But she always wanted to make what she called a shitload of money, which was way more than that, right. And we actually started to unpack and really unravel what this is, what we started to realize is that she had allowed the voices of the men in her life to drown out her own voice. It was based in shame, it was based on conditioning, it was based on all these things. And so she wasn’t never allowing herself to live into who she was authentically own her voice. And when she started to move through that, guess what it was only 18 months for she blew through her number. Okay, emotional triggers looks like a 29 year old male who had a very successful business. He was in the hospitality, business, restaurants, bars, hotels, successful, multiple people working for him. But he was always told that what he wanted to do wasn’t good enough, which wasn’t what he was doing. Right. And so when we started to unpack these things, he ended up selling his business going and get his EMT and became a firefighter. Right, it wasn’t about the money. For him, it was about saving and impacting lives. It looks like a 43 year old male who literally had no self worth for his entire life. Right, one of the master communicators on the planet, building other people’s brands for 25 years, and described himself as the wizard behind the curtain. Guess what, once he started understanding, self worth, he’s stepping out from behind that curtain and owning his gift as his own not to build other people. Right, and I’ll leave you with one more. It was a 68 year old man who’s financially independent. He literally I mean, today, he’s a consultant and a coach, and a business consultant, all the above. self worth, he never realized that it’s 68 years old. It’s impacted his relationship. It’s impacted their pricing in the marketplace. It’s impacted his business relationships. It’s impacted his community relationships, all throughout his whole life. You never saw it, never aware of it. And so I look at that, and I say 68 years old, he’s been suffering for 50 years, highly successful, happy life, happy wedding, like happy family all the above, but always felt stuck and empty inside. And once he started to move through this and own the root of his self worth, lack of self worth, guess what all those things have started to right size. I can give you 100 more examples. But those are four because I want people who are listening. Look, it’s in all of us. We all have it. Right. And to your point. That’s how we have to discover it, we got to look backwards. We have to do that historical work multi generational, often. It’s not just our experience. It’s our parents and our grandparents. Because that’s how we break generational cycles, because they literally are embedded in us. 

Heather Pearce Campbell  44:12

I mean, genetically, it’s there. It’s both the genetics and the nature. I mean, the nerves are right so the but I feel like if we can figure out what it is that we’re trying so hard to avoid, right? Because the triggering is really about avoiding some perceived some really perceived painful outcome, right? Are we going to be told her bad kid is somebody going to not love us anymore? Like what is the terrible outcome that we’re afraid of? Right and really own that like Okay, so what if somebody’s like to the people who are the Energizer Bunny workaholics? You know, I think we have a lot of them like, my self worth comes from getting stuff done it just right, just have to go go go like, what’s the worst that can happen? So somebody calls you Easy like, yeah, okay, what if some part of you is late, you know? So it is I think

Brian Bogert  45:05

People don’t do the work to figure that stuff out. And oh, by the way, if so there’s I’m not going to go through all of them. I’m gonna hit them high level and quick. Yeah, but the process is to understand how to embrace pain to avoid suffering in your life is just that we got to start by acknowledging the suffering we wish to avoid. Right? And when I say suffering, that’s like, literally, what is the suffering I wish to avoid? So I’ll give you an example. Okay, because by the way, this is a two sided coin. People talk about goals planning, right? Where do we want to go? That’s great. But we need to bookend it, we also need to understand what do we want to avoid, because it’s really where those two come together the two sides of the same coin that really started to move us 38 year old client moved 26 times full time, he was 18, he lived his mom, Grandma, dad, right all over the place, never had the same set of friends twice, never went to the same school twice. He literally never learned how to give or receive love. Fast forward to today. He’s got a beautiful wife and two beautiful daughters. But he never learned how to give or receive love. And he was a nomad. And whenever things got tough, they’d pack up and walk away. So that was what he was conditioned to do. But he never even thought about it that way. Right. And so the idea of acknowledging the suffering for him is a life without his wife and two girls, right. But what he really wants is this very vivid image of his wife and him sitting on their ranch in Texas, when they’re 18 years old, with the wind blowing through the brush. And the only thing Breaking the Silence is the laughter of his kids and his grandkids playing in the fields. When he takes that image and he burns it into his soul, right, the purpose become big enough to overtake the pains required for him to change. Right. So that’s the suffering. That’s the long term. But the next step is to identify the pains we tend to avoid and learn to embrace them.

Heather Pearce Campbell  46:35


Brian Bogert  46:35

I’ll use a personal example on this one. My arm, I told you, I don’t have a tricep, my biceps, my grisaille is from my leg, I don’t have a Latin, the left side of my back, I have a curve in my spine. I’ve had chronic suffering, I put chronic in front of suffering, because that’s been the truth in my back my whole life. 15 years ago, I discovered that if I stay lean, I stay active, I stay moving. And I focus on my core and my back strength that I can alleviate that suffering and go in manageable pain. So what I do, I do well, obviously, when we want to get healthy, I want to join a gym. And I went consistently for 30 days. And then I stopped going. Now that’s where most people stop. And it’s only because I had done the work of acknowledging the suffering. And I know this because I’m working through it that I was like, I need to ask myself one more question. Is it the pain of working out? Is it the pain of lifting weights? The pain of cardio the pain of stretching them avoiding? Or is it the anxiety I got in that crowded gym? It was definitively the second? Yeah. So I had to embrace the pains required to create the time energy, space and money to build up my own home gym. So I could have my environment for success. Because the reality of it was, again, that wasn’t a strategy or tactic which the gym was, it was an emotional trigger. I was getting anxiety because I knew I didn’t perform my best in that environment. So those are the first two steps in that process. But it hits right on the point that you talked about, which is why I had to share those two stories.

Heather Pearce Campbell  47:52

Yeah, yeah. Well, it’s, you know, continuing to ask ourselves these important questions. I think we just can’t stop asking because that’s how we get to the root of right. Are we avoiding right? Is it this? Is it something else? And like, what, uh, probably, in your life, a relatively easy change for you once you had the recognition of like, Oh, I just need a new environment for this.

Brian Bogert  48:18

Yeah. Well, and even with anger, I mean, it was one of those things that I owned it, I was right in it. And I promised my wife that’s on that spot in that moment where I said, you will never feel the negative manifestation of anger from me in our household ever again. And it hasn’t happened in six to eight weeks since that happened. Now I’m not committing that it will never I promise. But you’re right. That’s that’s really it. And, you know, I believe, like, there’s a whole lot to this clearly. I mean, we’re talking about it to give granular details in a way that people can experience. I talk fast, because when I come on these things, I want to cram as much value into this as I possibly can. And I have a lot of energy. So I move through it. But but that’s the truth. Right? It’s like once you start to do this, by the way, that’s the third step in embracing pain, avoid suffering is establishes that habit in every area of our life. Yeah, right. The problem is, is when we look at these things, we’ve viewed as a cost. We’ve used an expense, it’s gone. Sucks to get up at five, well, it sucks to do this. I don’t want to stop watching Netflix, right? And even experts in habit formation, call it an upfront energy tax. Well, exactly. Flip it on its head, let’s start looking at as an investment in our future self. Because when we can do that, and we understand the purpose is greater than the pain, right? We understand the pains we need to embrace and we can do this as a habit. If he starts to become easy. It’s not something that we have to take a lot of effort around anymore.

Heather Pearce Campbell  49:32

Well, we probably should schedule a whole separate conversation just on habits. Yeah, bit formation changing all right, because I feel like a lot of people get stuck there. It’s, you know, I read change ology a few years back that talks about, yeah, it’s a great one. And like I think so many people have the right heart that for you know, developing change and wanting to create a new healthier habit and they just don’t have the right supports in place or they’re out of the phasing and the or the timing or whatever is out of alignment, they’re missing some of what makes successful habits last right or uniform. But that you’ve given some really good examples, because, you know, the the part I really want people to hear is this importance around what it actually takes to embrace pain. What does that look like? I mean, you’ve shared some concrete examples around that, because it does. We all have ample opportunity in our life for pain. And it’s interesting how some seem to have more than others.

Brian Bogert  50:39

Yeah, I mean, it does. But I think the life and the universe, you know, regardless of religion, and spiritual beliefs, like it throws at you what you can handle. And that’s not to suggest if you have less, you can’t handle it, it might just not be in your cards, but typically, the people who get it can handle it. Right. And so it is what it is. And it’s it’s not an equitable equation. But when we, you know, the whole the whole phrase, right, like, What doesn’t kill you, makes you stronger. Yes. It’s antiquated. But it’s also a challenge of perspective, because it calls us to see our pain through a lens of meaning. Yeah. And so for those that have carried maybe, or had more weight in their lives, more pain in their lives as a result of it, right, if you can truly become aware of the lessons you can extract from those stories, those painful experiences, and then become intentional how you apply them in your lives, you’re stronger for it, you’re better for it, you have more perspective, you literally are in a position where you also can understand the patterns, see them and free yourself as they start to creep in. And so, you know, I’m one of those that our therapist was joking with us. And that was literally what she said she used to click decades and compress it into days. And we were like, yeah, I mean, it is but it was also because she’s like, you know how in the Bogut household, to turn pain into purpose, and turn pain into meaning and turn pain into perspective to keep you moving? Yeah,

Heather Pearce Campbell  51:55

Well, and that, that turning pain into meaning and purpose is really a significant piece of it. Because without that, I think people just can wallow, they can really stay stuck. And it really feel like this gets us back full circle to one of the things you said at the very beginning of our time together, where you said, get moved by what you can do with it right? Don’t stay stuck, when you can get to the point where you get moved by what you can do with that experience or that pain. You know, that is how we can create meanings, in my mind is not even necessarily sometimes about finding it as it is creating meaning for that particular experience or that. 

Brian Bogert  52:39

Yeah, but that’s why the last step is movement as well, because we got to go. Because here’s the thing, Heather, move people move people. Yeah. And then there’s a ripple effect.

Heather Pearce Campbell  52:49

Right? No, I love that. I think a lot of people are familiar with the other similar, quote, hurt people hurt people. Right? You’re right, moved people move people. And that’s, that is what we need. That’s what we need way more of. Brian, you’re awesome. I love this. This has been such a fun conversation. It feels like we’ve had 10 minutes, and it’s been much longer than 10 minutes. We should definitely schedule around too. But for folks, yeah. For folks that are still with us. Where Where do you like to connect with people online? Where should they go find you.

Brian Bogert  53:21

So you can find me at any of my unsocial, it’s at Bogert, Brian on any of the platforms. But I also want to say you can go to https://brianbogert.com. It’s the main website for all of our companies and entities. And I’m going to say this right? We are on a mission to impact a billion lives, we are very aware that 99.9999999% of those billion people will never pay us a single dollar. We’re very okay with that. And the reason I say that is is we create a lot of content, which is literally designed to elevate and empower people, the websites a good representation, you see a lot of the content, YouTube channels, boogers, bullets, vlog stuff that we do to show it no limits, living looks like articles, all the above, take them consume them, if they’re all you need, take them and run. Here’s my one request. If anything resonates, if anything hits you, please like comment and share because it’s gonna be a collective impact that gets us to that billion lives and we need all the help we can get. So we’re putting a lot of this out there not for us, but literally for you. And so please, if you consume it and something resonates, if you don’t like it, don’t but if it resonates, please share it to somebody that can benefit from it. And if there’s anything we can do to help you further say the word howl because we want to explore that.

Heather Pearce Campbell  54:33

I love that. So if you’re interested in no limits, living I love that phrase and learning more about what Brian’s up to just so we’re clear. His last name is Bogert, Bo g e r t. Theory. The right search online and not looking for a Bogert. Brian do you spend any time on social media Is your favorite place on social for people to find you?

Brian Bogert  55:03

I am on Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn very frequently. A lot of the same stuff goes and I engage on all platforms. So awesome. I love that anyway. And again, that’s why I said at Bogut, Brian, I’m pretty much any of them, you’ll find me.

Heather Pearce Campbell  55:16

Perfect. And we will share those links both to your website and all of your social media handles at our show notes. So find Brian, Brian, and all of his resources at legal website warrior.com, forward slash podcast. Brian, thank you so much for being here. What is aside from the going and engaging with your awesome content? What is one final takeaway you would say to anybody who’s still listening? Yeah,

Brian Bogert  55:43

Well, thank you if you’re still listening, because that tells me that there was at least value already to this point. You know, I’m in the process of helping usher in the era of who the reality is, we’ve been so conditioned for so long to chase the what? What house What Car? What amount of money, right? What, literally, city we live in what zip code that all will make us be accepted by the world. I chased the what? I got all of the watts, and then I woke up one day, and I realized that I was miserable, and run in circles with making multiple, six figures, seven figures, eight figures, and so many other people that were miserable. And it’s because when when you chase the what, you lose the who. Yeah. And so when we come back to recalibrate with the who, which is all about shedding the layers The world has put on us. And we identify exactly who we are, who we’re doing this for who we’re serving, than all the what’s in our world become a manifestation of the who. So it’s not that what doesn’t matter. It’s that it’s who before what, and so we are really trying to normalize this conversation, because when you meet someone new, what’s the first question they asked you? What do you do, right? And if you just want to throw somebody for a loop, and you ask them who they are 98% of people still answer with what they do, because we’re so conditioned. Why don’t we start asking who people are, let’s focus on people over profits, people before profits, not, instead of profits, people before profits, let’s focus on who before what. And I guarantee you that if you do that, you’re not only gonna live a more joyful, free and fulfilled life, but you’re going to have a greater amount of connection in your world, and you’re going to help us usher in this era of who.

Heather Pearce Campbell  57:16

I love that Brian, thank you so much for being here today.

GGGB Outro  57:23

Thank you for joining us today on the Guts, Grit & Great Business™ podcast. We hope that we’ve added a little fuel to your tank, some coffee to your cup and pep in your step to keep you moving forward in your own great adventures. For key takeaways, links to any resources mentioned in today’s show and more, see the show notes which can be found at legalwebsitewarrior.com/podcast. Be sure to subscribe to the podcast and if you enjoyed today’s conversation, please give us some stars and a review on Apple podcast, Spotify or wherever you get your podcast so others will find us, too. Keep up the great work you are doing in the world and we’ll see you next week.