With Connie Whitman, sales expert and CEO of Whitman Associates, LLC and author of ESP – Easy Sales Process: 7 Steps to Sales Success. Join us in this lively and insightful conversation about all things sales, the importance of understanding communication styles and personalities, and how to build your business and create powerful sales conversations without abandoning your values. Connie is an advocate for entrepreneurs – she has helped thousands of entrepreneurs and business leaders build their business to mid-six figure incomes.

>>> Subscribe to Guts, Grit & Great Business on Apple Podcasts

Biggest takeaways (or quotes) you don’t want to miss:

  • “I’m a risk taker but a calculated risk taker.”
  • “I’ve been successful serving from a place of love.” 
  • There is value in understanding how you are wired. 
  • Sales is psychology. 
  • “If you’re not selling from a place of love and heart, you are doing it wrong.”

Check out these highlights:

4:49 “People had no idea how to save and plan for the future.”

10:55 “Why should I work hard for someone else and they can still pull the rug out under me?”

16:20 “It’s very important for us to know our own selves and know our paths.”

17:49 There is typically a certain behavior style for those who become entrepreneurs. 

26:55 Find your voice and have people engage with that. 

29:28 Why following up is essential for a successful business. 

34:00 “The power of learning sales and being able to speak their language is pure magic.”

34:50 “I understand sales is nothing more than any honest conversation- transparent, authentic and real.”

39:00 Why you should follow up at minimum quarterly with your clients. 

44:56 “Everything we do has a vibration, has an energy behind it.”

50:50 “Business owners all have limited beliefs, figure out how to remedy them.”

How to get in touch with Connie:

On Social Media: 






Download Connie’s free Communication Style Assessment: https://whitmanassoc.vipmembervault.com/af/86897151/1025186

About Connie Whitman, sales expert and CEO of Whitman Associates, LLC and author of ESP – Easy Sales Process: 7 Steps to Sales Success:

Known for her high-energy, passionate and enthusiastic approach to teaching and coaching, Connie Whitman helps ambitious entrepreneurs, leaders and sales teams build powerhouse organizations to achieve wildly outrageous goals.

An international speaker and influencer, Connie’s inspired teaching and transformational tools and content ensures entrepreneurs and salespeople grow their revenue streams through enhanced internal and external communication skills while developing strong relationship based cultures. 

Connie is the CEO of Whitman & Associates, LLC for the past two-decades, and just launched her new book ESP – Easy Sales Process: 7-Steps to Sales Success, providing a step-by-step guide using her signature “7-Step Process.” She has helped thousands of business leaders and entrepreneurs, grow their business to mid six-figure incomes. 

As a radio show host, she is thrilled to share inspiring content on her weekly, international podcast ― Enlightenment of Change ― as a free resource for professionals looking to fast track their careers.

Learn more about Connie here: https://whitmanassoc.com

Imperfect Show Notes

We are happy to offer these imperfect show notes to make this podcast more accessible to those who are hearing impaired or those who prefer reading over listening. While we would love to offer more polished show notes, we are currently offering an automated transcription (which likely includes errors, but hopefully will still deliver great value), below.

GGGB Intro  00:00

Coming up today on Guts, Grit and Great Business. 

Connie Whitman  00:04

It’s the tone. Everything we do has a vibration has an energy behind it. And if you’re coming from a place that’s achy, the response is going to be tricky. If you’re coming from this high vibration of care, people are going to respond in the proper way.

GGGB Intro  00:20

The adventure of entrepreneurship and building a life and business you love, preferably at the same time is not for the faint of heart. That’s why Heather Pearce Campbell is bringing you a dose of guts, grit, and great business stories that will inspire and motivate you to create what you want in your business and life. Welcome to the Guts, Grit and Great Business podcast where endurance is required. Now, here’s your host, The Legal Website Warrior®, Heather Pearce Campbell.

Heather Pearce Campbell  00:56

All right, welcome. I am Heather Pearce Campbell, The Legal Website Warrior®. I’m an attorney and legal coach based here in Seattle, Washington. Welcome to another episode of guts, grit and great business. I am so excited to share with you today my new friend Connie Whitman, Connie, so good to see you. For those of you listening, you’ll get to hear Connie but you can also pop over and visit our video if you’re interested on my YouTube channel. So Connie is known for her high energy passionate and enthusiastic approach to teaching and coaching. She helps ambitious entrepreneurs, leaders and sales teams build powerhouse organizations to achieve wildly outrageous goals. I love this already Connie, an international speaker and influencer Connie’s inspired teaching and transformational tools and content ensures entrepreneurs and salespeople grow their revenue streams through enhanced internal and external communication skills while developing strong relationship based cultures. Connie is the CEO of Whitman and Associates LLC for the past two decades and just launched her new book, ESP easy sales process, which we will definitely talk about seven steps to sales success, providing a step by step guide using her signature seven step process. She has helped 1000s of business leaders and entrepreneurs grow their business to mid six figure incomes. As a radio show host she is thrilled to share inspiring content on her weekly international podcast, enlightenment of change as a free resource for professionals looking to fast track their careers. Connie is also a mom to two college age sons, an entrepreneur, a hockey mom and radio host of web talk radio. So awesome. Connie, I’m so happy to have you here again today. And we were able to connect to just a couple of weeks ago and I just I loved the chance to get to hang out with you for a week. That was…

Connie Whitman  02:58

Yeah, it was fun to hang out with you too. So and I think right off the bat, as soon as I found out what you did, we were in one of the chat rooms together doing working on our project that we had for the week. And I said to you okay, so I’m going to put you on speed dial because I’m building all these things in my business, I need to legal help. So it was just like a natural connection. So I’m so excited to be here Heather with you today.

Heather Pearce Campbell  03:22

Oh, so happy to have you. So talk to me, I always love to hear especially for entrepreneurs where that journey started.

Connie Whitman  03:30

So it’s interesting. I’ve been in financial sales for 38 years, when I say that I always pause because I think what I do all the while your clients that you are very kind, thank you, I will take that as a compliment. You know, 30 years, that’s a lot of experience that you gain. And then 20 years ago, what happens? I came out of college, and I got all my licenses, my series seven licenses, my health, and I was also going for my MBA at night. And I worked for insurance for a few years. And I loved you know, it’s funny how I mean, what did I know, as a kid? I didn’t know what the heck I wanted to do with the rest of my life. So I had a friend who was doing insurance on that, yeah, I’ll do that to get the job sitting with people. I realized that because of my education. Again, I had my minor. My undergraduate degree at Rutgers was also fine. I did finance and economics. And then I went on for my MBA and I had so much finance experience and then with this, the licensing and everything and I would sit with people literally at their kitchen table. And I realized that people needed help with cash flow. People needed help understanding how to protect their assets, whether it’s life insurance, you know, what have you people had no idea how to save and plan for the future. So when I tell you I found where I belonged, I loved educating and that I think was the beginning For me, of helping and serving people, because I felt like I was so blessed and gifted with all of this knowledge to share. And then after about five years, I didn’t love the insurance industry, it just didn’t jive with my values. So, banking in the late 80s, I’m dating myself, early 90s, we’re getting into investments, where they were trying to provide those alternative options to just CDs and whatnot. So I got a job in banking, and I found what I loved. And then in the 90s, it became a merger mania. And I remember a bank bought us and I won’t say who it was, they were anti customer service, and I’m all about the customer. So we had, I had a one year old and a four year old at the time, I came home and I said to my husband, can’t work for this bank. So my husband were married 28 years, this past January, he said to me, what do you want to do? So I want to get fired? And he’s like, okay, we’re still married. It’s like, okay, and what do you want to do? And I said, I want my own business, why he didn’t run for the hills then. And that was 20 years ago. So that was a pivotal point for me. I’m a bit of a control freak, and that merger, merger and I had these babies at home. And I thought, wow, I cannot go through this every other year, do you have a job? Do you not have a job, and they were giving, I was a senior vice president, I’d been there 13 years. So I had a 13 month package. So I’m a risk taker. But I’m a calculated risk taker. So having that safety net of 13 years, I said to my husband, I know I have such a huge network. I know I can make this work. Not sure what I’m doing. But I know I can make this work. And I also knew at that point, I wanted to teach, I wanted to teach people how to educate their customers, so that it’s a win win, where we’re serving our clients to the highest level customer service, but also being able to make a living, you know, keeping our businesses thriving, or the company, I’m working for thriving, it’s got to be a win win. But if we don’t serve our customers, we’re never going to get ahead. So to me, that’s the essence of sales, how I’ve lived my whole sales career. And now I wanted to teach that, because I felt there were some sleazy sales practices out there. It doesn’t feel good, it feels icky. feels icky. For you, it feels icky for the customer. Why does it have to be that way? I’ve been successful serving from a place of love. Why would you want to even attempt to do it from this icky place? Right? So I knew I had to get my message out there. And that’s truly why I started my business 20 years ago.

Heather Pearce Campbell  07:34

Oh, there’s so much that I love about your story. I mean, one your work ethic, right? Getting an MBA in the evening, becoming a mom, you know, having those early days of really working in you. And I didn’t know this, we share. I also studied finance and economics and undergrad. And instead of going the MBA route, I went the legal route, because I took a business law class, right, but I knew I wanted more business. I just didn’t want the MBA. So anyways, yes, amazing. Yes. Look, it’s this the whole thing about looking backwards, you gotta connect all the dots, right? Yep, that’s true. Yes. And but your part, and I think people often see entrepreneurship as so risky, right. And there is risk, let’s be clear that there is risk in starting your own business. But here you had gone through a series of mergers and acquisitions with a company that you were working for. And similarly in my career, so when I, when I left law school, I started my own legal practice, right. And I had friends who had jobs at big firms downtown, I’d interviewed there, but I had decided, you know, not the path for me just even seeing the inside of the law firms and people with their closed doors and tight lips, like I felt like everybody’s faces were stressed, you know, and I was like, this is not it for me. But then, even though the perceived security was there, you know, they were getting a solid paycheck, and blah, blah, blah. You know, within a few years, I watched some of those places totally fall apart, where partners were leaving the firm split in half, you know, friends who had been there left and some left law entirely. So it’s interesting, because whenever I talk with entrepreneurs, and I asked, you know, what is your big why? On my list, I see entrepreneurship is actually greater security, then the alternative, you have no control as an employee. Absolutely. Right. So I love that you saw the same thing and that you thought like, oh, my gosh, I can do this. I’ve got a network. And you actually saw that as the more secure path.

Connie Whitman  09:45

And it’s interesting. Yeah, that is such a good observation. And yes, I do believe I had more control, because I work hard. I and, and it’s funny. I work seven days a week and when I say that to people that is never a complaint. I love what I do. So to me, it’s never work. And here’s the other thing, I was able to take my kids to hockey practice, I’ve never missed a game, I could schedule if they had tournament’s like in Lake Placid, we would go, you know, on a Wednesday night and come home Sunday night, and I would work around my schedule, I just wouldn’t schedule during that period of time with clients and I had so much control, but I was able to not only build a business, but build a life, like a really good life. Because I I wasn’t privy to the whims of an organization. And I could work as hard as or as little as I want. I don’t mind working hard. You know, I learned that my dad came from Italy when he was about 20, I guess. And you know, the work ethic, if you work hard, good things happen. But why should I work hard for someone else, and they could still pull the rug out from under me, I’d rather work hard for myself and have better control of my destiny for my family for myself. There were lean years, whether there were lean years, sometimes depending on what was happening in the economy. But you budget for that, you know, you plan for that. So yeah, for me, it’s always about control.

Heather Pearce Campbell  11:13

Yeah. Well, and I think, I think it’s a really important piece of this conversation for people to understand that when you do it well, and you do have a great work ethic. And, you know, I mean, obviously you learn and you apply things quickly, like let’s not, you know, mask the fact that the journey of entrepreneurship requires a lot. And it requires a lot of learning, a lot of implementation, a lot of trying things. But you know, ultimately, and I your experience, about being able to be there for your kids and create your own work schedule, even though you work hard, and you were dedicated to your work. That piece is so important. I was raised by a dad who I who was an entrepreneur, and also was available for our sports events available for our big events as kids even though he too, was often gone or working or busy. He was there when it mattered and being able to see that as a kid growing up. I mean, it’s very, very meaningful, and is so much what entrepreneurship represented to me, even at the early choice of leaving law school and creating my own careers. I knew, like someday I’m going to be a mom, I want to be in charge of my work.

Connie Whitman  12:29

Absolutely. I just want to come and it’s funny, my dad the same thing. He was an entrepreneur. So he would come to our, you know, I was very athletic and high school. So he would come to all of my games and my siblings games, and then he would work at night, we’d go to bed, and he’d go downstairs and he would do what he had to do. He’s an engineer by trade. So I did the same thing. I would take him to hockey come home, they go to bed, shower, go to bed, I I’d work. I didn’t mind because I was doing, I wanted to be a mom, I want I chose to have children. And I wanted to be a mom first always. And the other thing I wanted to comment and you have a son as well. Right, so you have a seven year old as a boy. And I have two boys. And it’s funny. As they’ve aged, they’ll sit like we’ll meet someone or another couple of friends, you know, parents of friends. And my kids will say to me, nobody works as hard as you mom, you are the hardest worker I know. But you baked and I would be at was very active in the school, I ran the school store, I came in every Monday with one of the teachers and we did a writing workshop, I will just book out my day for that hour and I go to the school and then I come back to my office and work. And I’m happy with that because I want them to choose partners that will work with them, like my husband and I have a really good like my husband said, Go open your business, I have faith in you, it will be successful, we have to have a partner that trusts you. So I want them to learn that work ethic, yes, but you cannot do it alone. You have to choose a partner who’s going to truly work side by side with you to create the life you desire, whatever that is for them. So that’s an important thing as having boys that they see that a woman could be a good mom and still have their career to make make because it makes my soul filled. Because I’m doing what I love. And if I didn’t do that, I wouldn’t have been as good a mom and I know that too. And I don’t think that’s for everybody as well. Heather, I think some people need to be stay at home moms and that’s cool. Be honest with yourself. I could not I wouldn’t have been as good a mom and I know that.

Heather Pearce Campbell  14:40

I have a similar experience as you and that. i I know myself and I know that I have to have something else that keeps my brain occupied and engaged. Not that motherhood who doesn’t motherhood? Let’s be clear that motherhood probably has been my biggest challenge like absolutely highly engaged doing and I every day I have new opportunities to take my skills to the next level, especially with a special needs son. Like, it is not about rewiring his brain, it’s about rewiring my brain. And you know, so my husband and I have been on our own journey around that. But I love your point about modeling for your children, what you want to be possible for them, their partnerships, and the fact that entrepreneurship played such a big role in that, right, they get to see you working hard, and they get to see you showing up fully as a mom. And I think that there are a lot of women who are better moms, because they are able to engage themselves in work and feel fulfilled in other ways. And like, I have a sister who is a full time mom, she’s got four girls that are under the age of seven blesser, right. I know, I’m like I have to and I feel like I have five kids. So she’s amazing. And she’s brilliant. And I tell people like theirs is the only household right now in the midst of COVID that has had a better teaching experience at home than anybody could have ever provided those kids at school. She’s awesome. The teacher, yeah. She’s phenomenal. But I think it is really important for us to know our own path and to know ourselves. And on that point, what do you think distinguishes entrepreneurs, people who choose entrepreneurship, because I love this conversation and hearing from other entrepreneurs? What, what they think is the driver for that? Is it? Is it a personality thing? Is it that some people you know, whether they feel like they’re a fit for it or not, the risk is just worth it. Like, in your experience, what do you find with entrepreneurs?

Connie Whitman  16:46

So it’s interesting, because obviously, most of my career, I’ve dealt with business owners, from a financial standpoint, right now, as a business owner, most of my clients are businesses, right? So I don’t really go and I don’t do investments for people anymore, that that that was a part of my long term journey, right? So I go and I teach. So it’s interesting, because and I don’t know if you’re going to share a link or not, but I have a free communication style assessment. And I could share that link with you and your listeners.

Heather Pearce Campbell  17:21

I’d be happy to.

Connie Whitman  17:22

So we all at birth, you we are all wired like blood, like our blood type with a certain distinct behavioral and they call it behavioral style. We some are fast paced, take control, others are more passive and will follow there’ll be good worker bees, none are good or bad or right or wrong. It just is. So number one, you have to know who you are. Yeah. So in my experience, yes, there is typically a certain behavioral style for people to become business owners or entrepreneurs. They’re that type A personality. If you’ve heard about my my title on my communication style assessment that that I created, again, is a free resource for people. 

Heather Pearce Campbell  18:04

And I love that and just so people for people listening, you will find that gift as well as some other contact information for Connie. And I think you had Oh, yes, nope. So that is the link for the gift. People can find that at legalwebsitewarrior.com/podcast so be sure to check that out. I’m gonna go check it out. 

Connie Whitman  18:24

Yes, it’s excellent. So example would be a CEO mentality or business owner mentality. They’re innovative organizers. They have so much innovation in them, but they’re organized enough to get things done. And then you have somebody who’s more of a heartfelt advocate, see just how beautiful that sounds, they lead with their heart they give they’re loyal, they’re probably going to be more of the support team for the business owner versus taking the risk of opening a business heartful advocates don’t love change. So they’re more fear driven. Then I got this, I could do this right that that courageous kind of persona, again, not right or wrong, good or bad. When we understand who we are their superpowers with that that we bring to the table. There’s also blind spots. So me I am I’m a stimulating motivator that’s my highest I want everyone to thrive and succeed. And I just I’m there I’m your cheerleader, and I will teach you until you get it right. That’s my stimulating, too. I am I have high energy I talk fast I move fast. My secondary which they fight a little bit is my innovative organizer and that’s the CEO so I love you we can do this. Let’s get to work now. Now heartfelt advocate, if that’s an employee of mine or someone I’m working with, I could never behave that way that way with them. I would have to handle them with a little bit more of love. A little bit more of Kinder handling, you know, white glove treatment kind of thing. I need to make them feel valued. Somebody’s like you, Heather, I’d be like, what do we need to do? Let’s get down to it. You’re like, alright, football, we would fire, we’d move forward. Here’s our blind spot. We don’t see detail all the time, because we’re moving and innovate again, creating that I need people around me and another style that is very low for me as a precise assessor. And those people who think they can do research and show you how to apply the research, I say, oh, pins in my eyes are killing me. You I think you have a little precise assessor. That’s the legal you like to research.

Heather Pearce Campbell  20:34

Yeah, I’ve got an all the personality assessments that I’ve done. I show up typically, in every category. I believe that yeah, it’s been it’s, I don’t usually fit really neatly into one box because I am a very fast like, I have a lot of activation energy. I’m a leader by nature, like I will stand up and say things that other people wouldn’t say. So actually, if it’s in defense of people, right, so one example is in college I is really interesting. I was raised Mormon got out of Mormonism, but then ended up in Utah for college. Utah State University is like jumping from the frying pan into the fire, right. But while I was there, I was actually going through the LSAT prep course that was that was put on by two of our university professors that taught, I don’t know, philosophy or something else. Anyways, one of them made a joke about gays in the class in Spanish, but I understood it. And I just sat there and I couldn’t cut like the rest of the class, I couldn’t concentrate. And I was just looking around like everybody in the class like feeling so uncomfortable, the weight of that comment in a public institution. And I just like I literally couldn’t do anything else until I had gone home, written him a letter directly that just says, like, this is a public university, you don’t get to say things like this, that was so hurtful. And I don’t know if anybody in the class is gay. But that is a devastating thing to say. And you shouldn’t be saying it. And I don’t know how I worded it but I typed it out on my little word processor and went and slipped it under his door. He wonderful. He never showed up to the class again, right? Anyways, yeah, the other professor ended up teaching the rest of that class. And I just said, you know, and I, but the the way that I signed off the letters, I said, you’re really lucky that I’m writing this letter to you and not to the university. Right, I really wanted him to take responsibility for what he had said and change his behavior moving forward. But anyways, all of this is to say, I have a big heart when you said heart centered advocate, like, I first resonate with that, when you describe the, you know, the heartfelt advocate, yes, in your assessments, but I am a quick action taker, I will like I will jump into the front of something if I need to, and particularly on behalf of other people. And, you know, like you, I want to control my work life, I want to control who I serve and how I do it. I am and never have been okay with somebody else telling me what to do. Right? I relate to like every part that you described on like, Oh, yes, I need to go take this test to see where it puts me, but… 

Connie Whitman  23:23

So it’s cool, you have to take it and then send me the results. So here’s the thing you get, you get the report, right, if your highest and your lowest, so you understand what your strength is and what your blind spot is. And it also gives you the intensity of the other one. That is really you. Absolutely, so you’re a combination of five, your combination might be the exact order of mind, but your intensity might be higher or lower on different ones, that so it’s the whole composite of really how we show up in the world. But think, think about what we just said, Just engagement that we just did, how powerful a tool is that to understand this is how I’m wired. This is what my what I need, right? When I’m talking and for me, when I’m talking to my clients and teaching themselves so that they can serve their client, I have to understand who I am they have to understand who they are. I also need to understand who’s in front of me, and how do I need to communicate to them for them to think she gets me she hears everything I say. So if I’m dealing with someone who’s more of a precise assessor, they need more detail, I have to get in the weeds with them. That’s not natural for me. But you have to shift and modify, because that’s what they need. And because I have this tool, they deserve that from me, right. So that’s kind of that communication style assessment and the power behind it.

Heather Pearce Campbell  24:47

Now I love that I was having this conversation with somebody the other day that if you’ve ever been in relationship with somebody who speaks a different love language, right? Yes, there’s a book like before there is Whatever five, I can’t remember that love that too. Yes. But if you’ve ever tried to give from your love language to somebody who doesn’t live in that, like it’s not received the same way, no, it’s not received even in the way that you give it, even when that comes from a really genuine place. And, you know, my husband and I, I think sometimes we have slightly different love languages. But you know, he’ll be saying to me, but I, I did this, or I, you know, he’ll like, have something that he really wanted me to receive, and though and it just like was missed on me, right. And I think it’s the same thing, when you’re talking in a sales conversation with somebody who really has a different primary language or primary strength, the power of understanding who they are, and how to really connect with them so that they understand that you understand them is like pure gold. It’s very, very powerful. So yeah, tell me, how did you get focused on sales? How did sales become your thing?

Connie Whitman  25:59

I think it goes back to what I said, when I sat at the first time I sat with a client, and they needed me, they needed my knowledge. Let me rephrase that. And because I was raised with very high ethics and integrity, my values, right, so were very high. So when I sat with these people, I treated them as if it was a family member, right? So how can I help them? How can I educate them, and it was funny, I was young, I was 23, I think when I started, so, you know, again, going to school at night working like crazy person. But in five years, I most times in that type of position, you have to make what’s called cold calls, you can literally by listening, just make phone calls, right? You just dial for dollars, it was not fun, good, good. I’ll tell you a good skill to develop, you know, to find your voice and have people engage with that right without verb, you know, video without visuals, body language. But what I found in five years, when I left insurance, I was living off referrals. And all and here’s an interesting thing, too. When I got this job in insurance, there were four in our office, our particular sales office 43 men and me, I was the only female. That was a fascinating experience, because they would come over like Hi, little lady. And I’d be like, do I rip their face off now? Like, how dare you talk to me that way. But I was raised to be respectful. So I would always be cordial and respectful. In my head, you know, there was a bubble over my head thinking you’re an idiot. But you know, I didn’t say it out loud, of course. And in five years, I was living off for referrals. And most of these men, you know, after 10 years, were still making cold calls. And they were like, how did you do that? And, you know, it’s funny, I was like, I don’t know, later on when I thought about it. Because when I went into my clients, they felt that I really cared about them, that they would, they would say, Oh, you need to talk to my sister. You know, my neighbor next door. They’re changing jobs. They don’t know what to do with their 401k Oh, my God, I have this friend, my favorite story. I’ll be brief with this locally. I’m close to the Jersey Shore. And there’s this townhouse complex, literally right on the beach. And Seabright and so I, I did I did a mailing this dude responded, right? I go, and I need a single man, a beautiful townhouse complex. And so I helped them and I’d followed up with him a couple of times, and then he finally agreed to meet with me. So I walk in and he said, You know, I let you in. And I’m thinking Oh, please don’t wait me. Oh, you’re right. So what’s going on? And he said, You followed up with me three times in less than a year to see if I can save him money on this homeowners and auto policy. My insurance guys good. He said, but I haven’t heard from him in three years. So I was intrigued and he had to meet me. So net net, we do this you know, the insurance I did my follow up. Of course, I gave quality customer service. He was the president of the homeowners association for that complex. He and I knew the bylaws to write the program and make sure everything the coverage was proper and all of that I took great care with that. I had almost everybody in that complex. Do you know how much like I made so much money off of that. And I would drive into the complex and in the summer you’d have my sunroof down and icon icon it was like a wild experience because it all all because I followed up properly. You and I talked about follow up Missy in order class, right. And here I got this abundance of business because I showed care concern and I was I was real and how I helped him. So it’s just interesting. Again, me being me, but coming from a place of service has served me well that business finds me I’m not knocking on wood. I’m very blessed.

Heather Pearce Campbell  29:52

I love that so much and for anybody listening like the power of learning sales I’ve got a story that I want to share just for a minute. But it literally can change your life. I mean, it will change your business, but it can change your life. My sister went from being married with two young boys like age one, and maybe three or four, when she got a divorce, her husband had been cheating on her there was, you know, it was she and her work history was that like her previous jobs were, you know, $10 an hour, $11 an hour, she was brilliant. She graduated from design and merchandise and textiles from Washington State University, but she didn’t have the opportunity to work in that field. And so instead, she was, you know, working behind the Macy’s counter and doing, you know, some of their display work, or I think she even helped, like manage a Starbucks for a time, but her pay was not equivalent to really what she deserved. And so that was her work history. And suddenly she is going through a divorce, she has very little work history. She’s a mom to two tiny little boys. And she somehow, and I think she knew deep down I mean, who knows, again, how our dots connect when we’re looking forward, right? Looking backwards. I mean, she did exactly what she needed to do to get where she is now. And her first job she took was learning sales. And it was for a point of sale is for a business, that sales point of sale systems to other businesses. One of probably the toughest job she’s ever done. You know, even the training part, I remember, she cried everyday, she had to go to California for two weeks, or save her little boys at home, you know, with her ex husband. And anyways, her journey as a single mom and trying to figure out and bridge that gap in her skills. I mean, she really spent probably about, you know, a year and a half, two years learning sales first with that, then through another position. And then finally, she ended up as a salesperson at Siemens, which is a medical device like, you know, sure. She’s brilliant, she is so good at it, she now gets called into groups like they had somebody else in the company had a hospital that they really wanted to get into. But they had a whole flock of technicians, who were really concerned about changing technology, and they bring all these questions down. And you know, but they were a pretty, they were not a receptive audience, we’ll put it that way. And the company knew like, we have to get Ashley there on site meeting with them. And she’s up in the Pacific Northwest, she had to fly down to Southern California someplace. And she says that she walked into a group of about 20 technicians, and this is Malmo techs. And they all were sitting there like this, like arms crossed, you know, body language was so closed. And you know, phases were not open, receptive, they were not smiling. It was just like, okay, get this presentation over with, right, right. We’re gonna go through the motions, totally, you know, and she sat there, and she looked at their questions, she didn’t know even what she was walking into. They just said, we need you to go meet with this team. And she looked at their questions, she read the people in the room and read their body language. And she just said, You know what, I love you guys look at these questions that you put down, like, look how committed to your customer you are, look at how much you guys care about your patients, like you did so much homework before you even met with me. And you put down your thoughts and like, you know, whether you ever make a decision to change technology or whatever, I just want to honor you for being so committed to your patients that you would have this meeting and that you would put all the effort into these questions, right? Anyways, and even just doing that one thing, like, and it was because she’s intuitive, she can read people write the room soften suddenly, they were unclosing. You know, like, not folding their arms any longer. Like they could hear what she had to say. And anyways, I just the power of learning sales and being able to understand who’s on the other end of the phone, or who’s sitting across from you and speak their language and acknowledge them in the way that they need to hear it. It’s pure magic. I mean, everybody in business needs to learn this.

Connie Whitman  34:14

Sales psychology. When you think about it, it’s it’s at the end of what we do every day, who am I serving? How can I best serve them? Am I the right person tool resource to help them? And if not, do I have someone that I can say, You know what, I’m not the person I’m not I’m not the software, whatever it is, we’re not the right ones for you. You really should look over here. I think they could really satisfy what you your customers might need. See, but that’s being that’s honest. And that’s it. So to me, you see what we just described. I hope anybody that’s listening, you understand, understand sales is nothing more than an honest conversation, transparent and authentic and real. And I you know, in my book, I think Start, I think the first sentence is, if you’re not selling from a place of love and with your heart, you’re doing it wrong, that I think of the next sense. I say, I know you’re all thinking, Connie, you’re out of your mind. What does love have to do with sales? It has everything to do with sales. If you’re coming from a place of care, that’s how people want to be handled and handled is not the right word. But that’s how people want to interact, right? Engage with you, because they know they matter. Not because you’re thinking, How much money am I going to make from this deal? That’s awful. To me, that is disgusting. That’s a horrible way to sell. That’s right.

Heather Pearce Campbell  35:35

Well, and, and sale like the the transition point for me even in my own business. So law, yes. And also photography. When I graduated law school, I started two businesses, I started my legal practice. And I also was a photography. I live in both sides of my brain, and I’m very creative, and I’m very analytical. And so for me, it was really just a way to keep the creativity alive. I ended up you know, being able to combine my creativity with what I do now. But, but for a time, my photography business was really the place to experiment with the sales conversation. Right? That’s right. And it was a really, really fun journey. But the importance of learning sales was the thing that that really kind of flipped the switch for me from getting out of like, oh, sales is hard, it feels icky. I mean, I just bought, like, every book under the sun at the time on sales, took a whole bunch of like online trainings about doing in person sales, all this stuff. But it’s really about sir, like sales is serving sales is showing up and like being of the highest value possible in that moment to somebody whether the solution is you or like you said, whether the solution is next door, finding out their needs, and then connecting them with the solution. And if you can do that, whether it’s you or whether it’s somebody else, like people will refer you business, they will remember you all day long over somebody else who just tried to sell them.

Connie Whitman  37:04

Absolutely. And it’s I’d want to just comments. The one other big piece I find with businesses, with salespeople with sales teams, their follow up effort is lacking. And you’re missing an opportunity. Because here’s the thing, Heather, when we met, I said to you in passing, I need I’m building this website, I’m building a digital product, I’m creating this book. And I don’t know what my exposure is because I go to corporate clients, right, and I have my contracts that were legally done. Now it’s a whole nother dimension. So what is my legal exposure? I don’t know. But I certainly want to protect myself and my assets. So I said to you in passing, you know, I’m gonna absolutely hire you. I need you to look at my things. You said. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Now we’re we see each other, we’re connected, obviously, that we could follow up, you put me on your email list and all of those things. So many business owners and sales teams and sales people they don’t. So and Mustafa shared this, I shared this statistic. But in our class that we were we had met 48% of sales happen with the fifth to 12th contact with the client. So and the unfortunate thing is 80% of sales people and business owners don’t follow up pass the second time. And and the first and second, I think it’s like 3% of sales happen in the first a second encounter. So if and here’s the thing, let’s say you and I met right a few weeks ago, and I said to you listen, I’m just starting, I’m not going to be ready for six, eight months, and you never followed up with me. And someone else approached me with the same service. I’d be like, yeah, yeah, I need that good timing, let’s do it, I would have been you would have long been forgotten, because you never thought to circle back with me. So people, sometimes they don’t have the need now. But that might change in three months, six months, nine months a year. So you have to touch people and do diligent follow up at least that five to 12 times. And here’s the other thing, everything is look at COVID You know, our world we were the rug was pulled out. Our world was spun like a tarp. And it’s like, see where you land, right? Like what they let’s see what happens. craziness happens, right? And now if we are not following up with those clients, showing that we care, whatever your services are, shame on you, because people need to forget about that you’re gonna make money off them. They need to know that you care, you’re worried about them, their families, and how can you help them during COVID or whatever the situation is, but life changes in an instant. So if we’re not following up that five to 12 times my rule of thumb is you should follow up at minimum quarterly with your with your clients, because life changes and new opportunities will come to you and that’s how you grow and scale your business to a large extent they already trust you keep keep you want them to keep buying from you and you keep expanding your offer to serve them you know Today and 10 years from now, right, that’s really the objective.

Heather Pearce Campbell  40:03

Well, and that consistency is so crucial. I was talking with a friend yesterday on my podcast about, he was saying he found it fascinating to observe who he hadn’t heard from in a time and how, oh, suddenly, they popped back into his inbox during COVID. Like, hey, you know, even if it was an outreach of like, hey, hope you’re doing well, it was still came across as like, hey, remember me, especially in the downturn, because he hadn’t been hearing from them prior to that point, right. And how many businesses found themselves in that spot of going into COVID. And realizing, we haven’t done the outreach, we’ve needed to starting in the midst of a crisis and having that not be well received?

Connie Whitman  40:47

Absolutely because now you’re doing what all the experts are saying, reach out to your clients. They’re all home now, which was true. But if you’ve had beyond ignore for the past, my example with the gentleman in the townhouse, association guy, he hadn’t heard from his agent for three years, my clients faithfully after we do whatever the business is, we get everything scheduled set organized. I follow up with them quarterly. And during COVID, I was following up with my clients, like every two weeks, is there anything I can do? Can we do a webinar? You know, I just found this out. I think it’s fascinating. Here’s the article, share it with your people, I got nothing out of it. I truly cared about their well being and how they was hoping we’re reaching out to their clients so that their clients knows why they really, really care about me. It’s not just about I want to make money off you. It’s very interesting how you had that conversation recently. Very interesting.

Heather Pearce Campbell  41:46

Yeah. Well, at the very, so my experience of COVID was that I was at an event, the very end of February and San Diego was presenting. And I came home, you know, like literally February 28, or something. And then we were essentially on lockdown the first week of March, I was a little ahead of the curve, because I’d been watching the news. And I remember thinking, like I was just at this event full of entrepreneurs, we are all going to be affected by what’s coming our way. And nobody is talking about it. Right. And we weren’t even really talking about it on the news here in the US. Like they’d been, you know, upper levels. And government had been watching this evolve for some time knew it was coming. But it wasn’t really on people’s radar until like, second, third, fourth week of March for some people. So it was like March 1 or second, right? I’m pulling my kid out of school, I’m seeing the writing on the wall. Like I’m starting to have discussions with people and I was lined up to speak at like three more events in the next month and a half, I was canceling those and just saying, Look, Seattle’s becoming the epicenter in the US. We were where the first cases were starting. Yes. And I sent an email to my list. And the weird part is I remember having a lot of discomfort around sending it because I’m like, people are not even thinking about this. And they may be annoyed that I’m putting it in their face, right? I mean, not in a rude way. But like, Hey, you guys, you know, but I see where email. That’s right. And the subject line was, you know, what COVID may mean for your business. And but I spent probably an hour and a half drafting this email and saying, Here’s what I think you should be doing, here’s what I think you need to be considering you need to be looking at some finance some early financing options, you need to be looking at business insurance, you need to be, you know, looking at other ways you can serve your same base of clients, maybe with things that you haven’t offered before, you know, and so I just wrote out a thoughtful email, but it felt like the least that I could do, given what I was seeing coming our way and that one email actually over any other email I’ve ever sent got the most like in person responses, like I bet thank you for this. Oh, you know, and I kind of was worried that it would be received the other way like, you know, COVID the sky is falling kind of a way.

Connie Whitman  44:07

Here’s the thing though, you did it that email and the tone of the email and the vibration of that email was I care I love you guys. Please. Here’s information I know in my heart might help you please take you know heed the warning Do with it as you may I’m just here to help I’ve got your back that’s what that the tone of the email had to have been for them to respond not Oh, the drama queen here she goes again, the sky is falling. That’s not how it was received. Because you did it from this place of holy smokes peeps. We better we better really batten down the hatches and take a look at how can we protect our financial so we do sustain if this goes for a longer period of time, so that was REM see, it’s the tone. Everything we do has a vibration has an energy behind it. And if you’re coming From a place that’s tricky, the response is going to be tricky. If you’re coming from this high vibration of care if people are going to respond in the proper way, just like the story with your sister when she walked in, and they were, you know, yeah, yeah. What are you telling us? You can’t tell us we know better. And she heard them she showed Wait, I don’t know it all. This is care for your clients. You know, kudos to you guys, for coming from this place. And now, can I help you? Great if I can. I’m so glad you’re doing what you need to do with what resources you already have. She validated them.

Heather Pearce Campbell  45:38

Exactly it. Yeah. Right. So talk to me about how you developed your quiz, right? This the, the one that we’re going to share, how did you create that?

Connie Whitman  45:48

So I have a partner, I have a second business that I started a few years ago. It’s more spiritual based than business based. And that’s another side of me, right? So yes, I love it. And we get to kind of dig in and help people with their beliefs and all of those things. So my partner, she’s actually a therapist by trade. And she was like a dean in university. So she’s very academic. So she’s Myers Briggs, licensed me and corporate I am disc, which is the Morriston William Charleston model from the early 1900s. And when we got together, we started sharing our experiences. And for at the core of everything we do, I don’t care who you are, what business you’re in, you have to communicate effectively, and you have to listen effectively, which we don’t do as a society. But anyway, as we don’t, as we were talking, she didn’t like Myers Briggs, because she said, you can cheat on the test, meaning cheat to yourself, because you’re not self assessing with honesty. And because you come out with an EIN J, what does that mean? And I had the same issues with this. I said, people come into my classes, you know, with my corporate clients, and they’re like, I’m an ID, and I’m thinking you’re an SC? And then they would argue with me because they want it to be an ID. I know you’re not, but then I would go, Okay, be what you want to be here. And I’m not losing sleep over this, right. So it made me crazy, though, I’m thinking well, they’re never going to be able to apply any good skills, because they’re lying to themselves. The other thing people would come, you know, to my second third classes, because I do series of classes with different clients, and they do them quarterly. So they come back, you know, three months later, and I say, What was your district? And SC they’re like, No, it wasn’t a C, I don’t remember, what is an SC? What is an ID? What does it mean? So when Maryann, my partner and I got together, we created a cheap proof test, the assessment you’ll take. So instead of saying almost like this, I’m least like this, we go through five different categories, and you have to rank them one through five. So you can have in the in the pot of five questions. We have statements, you can’t put all ones Oh, they’re all like me nonsense. Which one is the most second most and you have to rank them? So we kind of handled the cheating piece that could fit well, you try to keep us honest. Right? Right. And the other piece was like before, just me saying a heartfelt advocate that immediately resonated with you. When I said I was stimulating motivator, you burst out laughing thank y’all, you’re stimulating motivator. You don’t even know what that is. Because you don’t have a report you’re looking at. We want to make the classifications of how we titled them to be positive and empowering. So people would embrace their style, and say, I do have those superpowers. And on the flip side be more open to say, Hmm, my low is for me as a precise assessor. I need to surround myself with surround myself with technical people who will cover a moving so fast. I can make big mistakes. I could get caught late. Yeah. But I need people to say, Don’t worry, all the crap you’re leaving behind. You’re we’re cleaning it up, we got your back. I need people like that in my life. But you have to acknowledge your blind spot. And I can’t say Oh, I I’m good at that. I could do that myself. I know I can’t. So you see. And then like innovative organizer, they’re the CEOs. The other people who are inventors are a combination of observing designer, they’re able to observe the world, and then go in and redesign things to make us better. All of the scientists that are working on COVID, for example, there’s probably a combination of this observing designer, they’re able to research and look at data and and observe things as well as that precise assessor to really dig into the nitty gritty. They’re my two lowest by the way. So you see, you see how but see how nice they all sound. So people don’t say oh, no, I’m not a D Amina, because the D isn’t a good person. I’m not a judger Yeah, I’m not a judge. You’re right. Deezer judger. So by saying empowering you with the title. So that was your really the reason that we create it and we we tested 1000s of people, because we wanted to make sure that it was scientifically proven, but also fun, and also insightful, and also help people to embrace their true self so that they can work on their journey to becoming you know, who they are really meant to be. You know, warts and all our flaws make us so beautiful, too. But embrace that, right? Don’t say, Oh, that’s not me. It is you deal with it. Right?

Heather Pearce Campbell  50:26

Yeah. Oh, I love that I love when will you share with us a little bit about this other spiritual side and the work that you’re doing there? I have done there.

Connie Whitman  50:35

Sure. So my partner and I, we call that business, we’ve been in business about three years, we have some master classes. And it helps you kind of dig into the psyche of your beliefs, your limiting beliefs. And business owners. By the way, we all have limiting beliefs, you know, the record player, I’m not good enough. We all have money issues. You all do listening? Trust me, you do, right? And so we dig into the psyche, the psychology and things more than the business realm. And here’s the thing, you know, there’s always a blend, right? I was teaching a class last week, and it was a sales class. And in lunch, at lunch, we started talking about the universe and spirituality, and your thoughts become reality and share your answers. It was a beautiful, common conversation. And then we were able to talk well, how would your How would your client feel if you came from this place of serving and love you see what I mean? But that we really help people dig into the psychology of, let’s figure out what your limiting beliefs are, and how can we remedy them. So the business is called wisdom decoded. And we’ve been doing that for about three years. And we love it. We she and I love working together. She’s an observing designer. So again, she sees that that very creative again, peach got a PhD in psychology. And I’m more of No, we’re not doing that. Now you’re putting too much on our plate, because you think you have to change the whole world at once. You know, and I’m like, what band down the hatches Enough of this nonsense. So it’s just really cool. The ying yang we have in the business, right? So it’s cute. It’s very cute.

Heather Pearce Campbell  52:07

I love it. Well, I’ve always, I’ve always believed that the personal development journey and the entrepreneurial journey are the one in one in the same. They’re mesh, they’re, you know, they’re like a rope with, you know, the twine that that inner weaves. And so I think it’s so important for people to understand both sides of that, because often when we’re feeling stumped in our business, it’s actually something that we need to resolve over here on our personal mindset side, escaping it, yes. And so I like to talk really openly about both sides of that coin.

Connie Whitman  52:44

And I do as well. And it’s funny, because in my, my, even in my corporate clients, we’re talking about the universe. And you know, what your brain is saying, and you know, and I’ll say, they’ll say something negative, and I’ll stop. And I’ll say, wow, why did you just say that? And it could be something random about a customer. And they’ll go, I don’t know, I go, let’s examine that. That’s not healthy. And you laugh about it. But you get them to think, where did that thought come from? Because your customers are feeling that energy. Very dangerous. And it’s funny on the wisdom decoded, we also published a book, it’s available on Amazon and on our website.

Heather Pearce Campbell  53:21

And also I’m happy to share these links, if you want these links, oh, my goodness to drop them in the show notes.

Connie Whitman  53:26

Yes, absolutely. And the we have a book, it’s called “Communication Techniques to help you Present, Persuade, and Win”. And it breaks down all of the behavioral styles. So heartful advocate, here are your superpowers here are your blind spots. And here we give 10 activities for each style to strengthen your, your superpower to me, you know, really leverage them and how to minimize I’m aware of my blind spots. How do I minimize Who do I need to hire on my team, and we give 10 exercises, a short little book, it’s like a workbook that goes with the short report you get from the free communication style assessment. So so cool, you know, it’s it’s cheap. The book is short. It’s cheap. But it’s, it’s another good tool. You know, it’s another good tool for peeps.

Heather Pearce Campbell  54:12

Yeah. No, I love that. Well, I’d be really happy to drop that Sure. And love for anybody listening to be sure to check out the show notes. They are available at Legal website, warrior.com forward slash podcast. Connie, this has been so fun. I feel like I could just keep talking and talking with you. I loved it. Any final thoughts for our listeners, anything that you want them to end on?

Connie Whitman  54:34

I really really, when it comes to sales, please, please think it’s it’s nothing more than a conversation. And July 16 is my book launch. If I could do a little plug? We’re selling the book for $1 on July 16. So money should never be in and that for me was important to do. Because I don’t want people to say I don’t have the 15 or $20 to from a learning standpoint for Dollar. And I take you through the seven steps that you need to master and it’s easier than you think, to create that really dynamic, engaged conversation with your customer. And I’m telling you, you won’t get objections. Your follow up will be you’ll be a pitbull with follow up with respect. I call it CPR, follow up, consistent, persistent, respectful, follow up, and it goes through. So the book will be $1 on July 16. I really hope everybody purchase it and uses it.

Heather Pearce Campbell  55:28

I love that will. And be sure to add me to your list because I’d be happy to mail out to my list as well. I’d love that your book. 

Connie Whitman  55:36

Yes. Oh, thank you so much. 

Heather Pearce Campbell  55:38


Connie Whitman  55:38

Promise, I’ll do that. Appreciate it.

Heather Pearce Campbell  55:40

Oh, Connie, thank you so much for spending such a great time with us today and sharing all your brilliance. I just I love this conversation. I personally believe that sales is one of the most important things that we have to learn period, period. 

Connie Whitman  55:53

Yeah, even if you’re in a position in organization, you have to sell yourself for promotions and other things. It goes down to you have to communicate effectively, to clearly articulate your ideas, your service, whatever it is. It’s sales is communication. 

Heather Pearce Campbell  56:07

That’s right. 

Connie Whitman  56:08

You know, at the bottom, yeah. In life. Absolutely.

Heather Pearce Campbell  56:11

All right. Well, thank you so much. I’m so grateful to connect with you. We will touch soon. 

Connie Whitman  56:16

Yes. Thank you. Okay, thank you, everybody. Bye. 

Heather Pearce Campbell  56:18


GGGB Outro  56:23

Thank you for joining us today on the Guts, Grit and Great Business podcast. We hope that we’ve added a little fuel to your tank, some coffee, tea, or a cup and pep in your step to keep you moving forward in your own great adventures. For key takeaways links to any resources mentioned in today’s show and more. See the show notes which can be found at legalwebsitewarrior.com/podcast. Be sure to subscribe to the podcast and if you enjoyed today’s conversation, please give us some stars and a review on Apple podcast, Spotify or wherever you get your podcast so others will find us to keep up the great work you are doing in the world and we’ll see you next week.