With Craig Valine, a Marketing Performance Strategist, known among many as “The [Former] Struggling Consultant.”

Craig supports entrepreneurial consultants, coaches, experts, and service professionals in increasing growth and profits without spending a lot more time, money, and effort in the process – all based on his own experience of rising from a long period of failure to consistent success as a consultant.

Craig helps entrepreneurial businesses and professional practices enhance their current marketing performance by first testing and gaining leverage on current marketing strategies/tactics/campaigns to get a far better result for about the same time, money, and effort they are already spending. Craig is also known for helping his clients uncover “hidden marketing assets” and under-utilized or overlooked opportunities for profit within their business. The goal is always to find “more” profit within a business, starting with marketing.

Join us for this conversation where we hear how Craig’s business journey (and entrepreneurial philosophy) started at age 11 with paper routes, sales contests, and lawn mowing. Craig shares some early wins in his youth on his entrepreneurial path, and how struggles at home contributed to his drive to achieve as an entrepreneur.

Craig also discusses business fundamentals, including his view points on split testing, on the language that we use in our business, in our sales & marketing, and the importance of simplicity. He shares the role that Tony Robbins played at a critical time in Craig’s life which reconnected him with his entrepreneurial roots, but then led to Craig becoming a “struggling consultant.” He shares how there is always a recipe for success, and that so often in business, we think we know better than someone else, or are willing to learn but not implement, and how this can keep people stuck and not growing.

Make sure you stick around to hear about the “hidden pot of gold” in your business – Craig believes there are 5 sources of power in your business that are often largely untapped.

>> Subscribe to Guts, Grit & Great Business on Apple Podcasts

Biggest takeaways (or quotes) you don’t want to miss:

  • People who have been in business for awhile – if they are making money – they are doing something that is already working. But there is always an opportunity for a better result.
  • “Experts don’t chase. They are sought after.”
  • Give first. Bond with [people / your audience] by providing useful, helpful information first.
  • The five places to look for the “hidden pot of gold” in your business.

Check out these highlights:

  • 6:08 Hear Craig’s thoughts on split-testing, and why Craig’s name is “No B.S. Craig.”
  • 14:00 Hear Craig’s advice to his friend’s Dad who ran a bike shop when he was a kid. (And how the one piece of advice Craig gave to his friend kept that bike store open.)
  • 27:10 Craig shares about his personal experience early in his career involving “chasing” clients and doing work outside of his scope of expertise, which led to numerous unpleasant and painful experiences.
  • 39:17 Hear Craig share on the “hidden pot of gold” (and five sources of power) within your business. Be sure you stick around to hear all five!
  • 52:46 What does clarity mean? “Be specific rather than random.” Be clear. Have purpose. Create a statement where you can say, “I am the only….”

How to get in touch with Craig:

On social media:





You can join Craig’s FREE Facebook Community coaches, consultants and experts at www.expertgrowthandprofits.com

Or visit him at his website and get his FREE GIFT “10 Ways to Leverage Old, Accumulated Leads.”

Imperfect Show Notes

We are happy to offer these imperfect show notes to make this podcast more accessible to those who are hearing impaired or those who prefer reading over listening. While we would love to offer more polished show notes, we are currently offering an automated transcription (which likely includes errors, but hopefully will still deliver great value), below.

GGGB Intro 0:00
Coming up today on Guts, Grit & Great Business …

Craig Valine 0:04
Create a story, create a character, so that people have a connection device – if they don’t just connect, everyone does – another lawyer somewhere that someone can connect with but they’re going to connect with you because number one, your angle about what is your specific marketing advantage, if you will, but you they’re going to connect with you being a mom, being a former corporate attorney, being all these things, you know, just the identification is what they need. They need to bond and that’s how they’ll stay with you for life is that bond that they have with you, that they feel they have with you.

GGGB Intro 0:35
The adventure of entrepreneurship and building a life and business you love, preferably at the same time is not for the faint of heart. That’s why Heather Pearce Campbell is bringing you a dose of guts, grit and great business stories that will inspire and motivate you to create what you want in your business and life. Welcome to the Guts, Grit & Great Business Podcast where endurance is required. Now, here’s your host, The Legal Website Warrior®, Heather Pearce Campbell.

Heather Pearce Campbell 1:07
Alrighty, welcome. I am Heather Pearce Campbell, The Legal Website Warrior®. I’m an attorney and legal coach based here in Seattle, Washington and serving entrepreneurs around the United States and the world. Welcome to another episode of Guts, Grit & Great Business. I’m super excited to bring my new friend Craig Valine to you today. Craig and I connected through a mutual connection, who is one of my favorite people, Melanie, who also runs a podcast. And I just think that Craig is going to share so much genius with us all – any of us who are in the entrepreneurial space. And have you ever struggled with your marketing? I personally don’t know any entrepreneurs who haven’t at some point struggled with that. So it’s gonna be a powerful conversation. We’re gonna have a lot of fun. Craig, welcome.

Craig Valine 2:03
Hi, thank you so much.

Heather Pearce Campbell 2:04
Yes, it’s so great to have you here today. So for folks that don’t know Craig, let me introduce Craig and we’ll share a little bit about his background and his experience. Craig is a marketing performance strategist from Pasadena, California. He is known among many as the “Former Struggling Consultant” – that gives me the giggles – I love that. So many of us are former somethings, right? Craig helps entrepreneurial consultants, coaches, experts and service professionals increase growth and profits without spending a lot more time, money and effort in the process, all based on his own experience of rising from a long period of failure to consistent success as a consultant. He does that through his EMP Alliance membership community, advanced marketing mastermind and private client relationships. Now I dug up some additional information about Craig on LinkedIn, LinkedIn is one of my favorite places to spend time but a bit more detail about how he does his work, Craig helps entrepreneurial businesses and professional practices enhance marketing performance. By first testing and gaining leverage on current marketing strategies. Tactics compete campaigns, to get a far better result for about the same time, money and effort that you’re already spending. He also uncovers hidden marketing assets and underutilized or overlooked opportunities for profit within a business. The goal is always to find more profit within your business starting with your marketing. As a lead generation strategist. He also helps the same types of business and practices attract only highly qualified prospective customers, clients and patients through more effective targeted direct marketing campaigns using unique sales and marketing strategies. Craig was also formerly an independent business advisor for Dan Kennedy’s GKIC insider circle, which is a group of entrepreneurs, business owners, sales professionals and professional practice owners interested in learning more about the direct marketing strategies and techniques. He led monthly chapter meetings in the Los Angeles area, providing a unique opportunity for local entrepreneurs to learn about a special type of direct marketing that goes against traditional big dumb marketing seeing all around every day. The type of marketing Craig teaches is measurable, affordable and effective, and lots of fun to implement and profit from Craig, I hope I hope I didn’t say too much. I just you know, marketing is a big conversation, right? And there’s so many ways that people can approach marketing, teach other people about marketing, and I love that you really dig into the numbers and make things more effective for people so they don’t just feel like you know, they’re throwing Spaghetti against the wall. Because I think that’s how a lot of people feel.

Craig Valine 5:03
Right? Right. Yeah, you know, people are already doing things, people who are currently in business who’ve been in business for a little while, if they are making any money, they’re doing something that is getting it that is connecting with somebody else. So it may be being at the front of the room, it may be being on a podcast, it may be sending emails out, it may be organically posting social media. And the fact is, is that there’s always opportunity for growth, if you will, there’s always an opportunity for a better result. And what we have to do is really just test to see how much better result can I get for about the same effort I’m already spending. So I just what I just said was one way to say some now I could try a different way to say it. And you might go, bingo, I get it, you know, so it’s like, same effort, same time, same no money involved, but I might get a far better result just by testing a different message to increase the result?

Heather Pearce Campbell 6:01
Yeah. Do you find that the concept of testing, right, because we always hear this, like split test, try this, try that measure the results? Do you find that that intimidates people?

Craig Valine 6:13
I do? I do. So, you know, you have to people always feared tests, no matter how good they were at it, you know, so it’s like, you have to speak everyday language. I just say compare one thing against another. Try this versus this. It’s the same again, same thing for the same time, money and effort I’m already spending it’s one way to say thing, say something versus another. And generally, you know, there was a movie called Philadelphia with Denzel Washington and Tom Hanks. And if whoever’s listening does remember that movie very well, it was Tom Hanks, who was a lawyer who lost his job because of an illness. And so he was suing for wrongful termination. And the people up on the on the, your lawyer, so fill in the blanks to fight. people sitting up on the, you know,

Heather Pearce Campbell 7:06
the jury stands here, you know, being Yeah. Anyway, I’m the witness. The witnesses are the jury standard.

Craig Valine 7:15
The witness witnesses so they, they were all using very legal jargon. And Denzel Washington said, Look, you know, you’re speaking this gobbledygook that nobody can really understand. Speak to me, like, I’m a six year old, explain it to me, like I’m a six year old. So my nickname is no BS, Craig, I tell it just like it is as simple as my son could when he was six years old. And, you know, I often asked him, I said, Do you understand that? No, well, let me try it this way. Let me try it this way. So I try to say things in a very, very fundamental way, because no matter how intelligent you are, well read you are you understand basic language? And if I it’s okay, if I don’t come across sounding like a Harvard professor, if I can get the communication across? And someone understands that, then I’ve done my job.

Heather Pearce Campbell 8:01
Yeah, well, that’s a that’s a really important point to be made that sometimes we have to hear things first of all, multiple times, and in multiple ways for it to really ignite change, or allow us to understand it enough to take action. And I think you’re right, even the language that we choose somebody saying, you know, split test, or test versus experiment, or play around with that headline, or you know, something else is a very different experience on the receiving end. It it brings to mind. So when I was in college, and I studied business, I was a business major. I took my first economics course from I can’t even remember the professor now. But I was struggling, right. And I am not somebody accustomed to struggle in, you know, most any of my classes. And I went in and met with an advisor at the university and just said, like, it was it felt like oil and water, it was such a disconnect. And it was just something about the way that I learned I could not learn from this professor. And I didn’t recognize it. I just knew I was struggling. And this advisor said, here’s what I recommend that we do, because you’re taking such a, I think I had like a pretty high class load at the time. So I was a few credits over what was typical for kids to take at the time. And she just said, let’s just put this class on hold. You cannot complete this course this quarter, and then come back, take it from the other professor who teaches this class next quarter, see if it fits, which is exactly what I did. And it was like night and day, I took the next class from the other professor and I loved economics so much, I added it as a second major. So the power of hearing is something in the way that you learn and you know, and from the standpoint of teaching a concept, trying it out in different ways and explaining it in you know, different language. I think is really, really important.

Craig Valine 10:03
Yeah, with that, you know, that just goes, you know, that comment that example was about the word testing and does it confuse people and does it intimidate people. But that lesson that we just shared with each other applies to your marketing message to your marketing message in reaching your ideal prospect. They may not get it the first time, they may not get it the second time, and that’s why you constantly have to do that thing called testing. To get it until you get it right until they get it they go, yes. Now I understand what he does, I can understand how it will benefit me, I can understand why I should do this, you know? Yes. Very powerful lesson.

Heather Pearce Campbell 10:42
Yeah, it’s huge. So Craig, share with us how how did you begin your path into business?

Craig Valine 10:51
You know, it all started when I was 11 years old. You really did. My sister was getting a $5 allowance. And I was getting a 50 cent allowance. And one day, I figured it out. And I said to my dad, what gifts, what the heck, yeah. He says, I’m going to teach you a very valuable lesson, go out and earn it. And so immediately, I mean, I went out and I remember a friend of mine had three papers. And she had asked me one time Do you want one of my papers? And it was early in the morning, and I grew up in Boston, so little town, little beach town outside of Boston, it was darn cold during the winter. And I said, You know, I had originally said no, but when he said that, I was like I was driven. So I went back and I said, You know what, I’ll take that paper. And she goes, Well, I’m giving up this one, too. Do you want this? So it was the Boston Globe and the Boston Herald The Morning Edition. And I said, I’ll take it. So on one paper route alone, I made 40 bucks a week. Now it was 50 cents versus 40 bucks. With the other one, I made about 30 bucks. So I was making 70 bucks a week. So then she had a third paper that was in the afternoon, the Patriot ledger, I took that. And now I’m making about $120 a week. And I’m winning sales contests which give incentives so there’s cash bonuses, there’s red sox tickets as patriots tickets as Bruins tickets, so I just excelled. I love the competitive nature of you know, with myself, it’s like how much money can I really make? How successful Can I be, and my dad caught on he goes, you really take a hold of this, you ran with this. So he was at a flea market. And he found a book called how I raised myself from failure to success in selling by Frank Becker, I still have the book. And that was way before I ever knew what a highlighter was. So I’m underlining and pencil and all that stuff, you know, but you know, it was about organization and creating systems and making sure that you you choreograph your week to be productive. And so I developed the philosophy about entrepreneurship at a very young age. And so that ended up being mowing every lawn during the summer, shoveling driveways, hanging Christmas lights, and sewer and my sister still was just making five bucks a week for her allowance for doing chores, I was making almost $400 a week, you know, by doing this thing, and I’m still just barely in high school. So I became a serious student of number one, looking for opportunities, you know, finding a bike that was getting ready to be thrown away, fixing it up and selling it, you know, just any opportunity that I possibly could. And one day, a friend of mine from another town, his father on the bike store, and he goes, you know, you don’t have to make a lot of money, you read your books and everything. He just noticed everything that I was doing. He goes, my dad’s, you know, thinking about closing down the shop, because people just aren’t buying they’re walking in and they’re not buying, you want to come in and just kind of talk to them. And I said, Who am I I’m just you know, 17 year old kid. And so I walked in and we just kind of we ate you know, drinks, flesh puppies and ate popcorn and just watch people come in. And we just noticed that his dad didn’t engage with people when they walked in, and then they walk out. I’m like, you know, you should capture the information of the interested prospect walking in, they came in for a reason. They get they drove in their car, they got out of the car, they walked in, they looked around, they didn’t see what they were looking for. ask them some questions. What are you looking for? Maybe we have it in the back, maybe we can order for you. And that one thing, kept that bike store open. And my friend ultimately took over it. And so he goes, you should do this for a living. So that story will lead into how I was a former struggling consultant, but the entrepreneurial bug had been planted in me very early in life.

Heather Pearce Campbell 14:36
Yeah, yeah, we’re like, I can relate so strongly to that. I we sound like we had similar upbringings. My dad was not one who was real big on allowances, but you know, there were always jobs to be done. And, you know, we got the lectures early at our house that you know, I think I was starting kindergarten when I got told like if you’re going to go to college, you’re earning your way there or you’re getting scholarships or your You’re doing something to create that path, you know, not me. And I was a pretty serious kid. And so like you, I was mowing lawns and raking leaves and, you know, getting on jobs and got multiple paper routes, and but it’s, you know, that’s an interesting, like, I love the topic of whether people are naturally inclined towards entrepreneurship, or whether it’s something that’s developed in them through, you know, nurture, right, parents encouraging it, giving them opportunities, or combination of both, perhaps,

Craig Valine 15:34
you know, it’s, I don’t know, there was an internal drive in me that I wanted to be kind of better than my sister. There was also one that I wanted to be, I wanted my dad to be proud of me, because we had a very difficult household, we grew up in an alcoholic home. So there was a lot of disconnect from nurturing, and all that stuff. So I was trying to make him proud. But the other thing is, I wanted money, because I wanted to play video games, I wanted to buy slash puppies, and, you know, and food whenever one article, that’s right, you know, magazines, Mad Magazine, and all that other stuff at the time. I’m a, I’m an 80s. Kid. So, you know, there was a, there was a drive within me there was a motivation, a personal motivation to do it. And when I did it, I didn’t want to do it, you know, half assed, if you will, excuse me for using language, but I didn’t want to do it that way. Because I didn’t. Again, I was looking for my father’s Yeah, you know,

Heather Pearce Campbell 16:30
approval, I can relate to that as well, too. And, you know, and even now, I have to examine my motivations for some of the things I do in my business, right, because I have this idea in my head that I think started probably when I was 56789. You know, as those ages, I was walking the neighborhoods asking for odd jobs and doing things that like, I think of my kids now, I would never let them walk around in the neighborhood and do some of that stuff. Right? Right. But it is, you know, it’s so fascinating to see how people connect to the idea of entrepreneurship. So obviously, you had this talent, your friend spotted it in you, right? You You could sit back and watch even the simple thing that was going wrong and and label it. Talk to us about that next transition into, you know, becoming, I know, there’s probably quite a bit that happens between that initial story and becoming a consultant or, you know, coaching others. But talk to us a little bit about how you got there and what your your early consulting years looked like.

Craig Valine 17:36
Yeah, I originally started out when I got out of high school as an EMT, and a paramedic, and back in back in Boston, and I worked for a private company and did work for the city of Boston. And I had had some some things happen personally, that I was ready to move. I just wasn’t happy there. And a woman I was dating her uncle was the chief of police of Monterey Park Police Department, which is a couple towns away from me right here. And so we flew out, and I took a test and I passed for the LA County Sheriff’s Department. And they said be here in two weeks. And so I moved out. And, you know, the testing was slow. We had just gone to war, though, in the Gulf in 92 1990. And so when I arrived at this house, from driving cross country, I turned on Tony Robbins. And it was the first time I had ever seen Tony Robbins with Fran Tarkenton, those old commercials that we can remember them. And I just loved when I heard it was, you know, was a lot of what I had read in books before. And it just inspired me to tap into my entrepreneurial roots. Because I had no job I had a little bit of savings to get me through. But that that paramedic and police job didn’t work out. They could because they stopped testing because of the war and all that stuff. So I had to make money. And so I looked at I just tapped into I started reading a bunch of books, everybody who endorsed Tony, I read Tony’s books, I’ve read everybody who endorsed them, I just got really fired up and started reading those books. And I started doing sales and I started, you know, selling insurance and everything in anything that I could do to make money and to be entrepreneurial. I was now driven again, by this inspiration by hearing these messages. Again, someone asked me says you should really help other people. You’re really good. You know, who’d said that was the rep from Tony Robbins organization. She goes, you’re so good. You’re so helpful. You should really do this. And coincidentally, I had gotten a book as a gift for participating in a program, a special program for Tony, from Jay Abraham. And it was the mix Mr. X book if anybody knows that book, and it was a pirated copy that someone took Jay’s information and published a book on it. And Jay had gotten hold of it and was reselling it so I got it as a gift for participating in a testimonial program of Tony Robbins. And so I got that and it was all marketing. And I said, this is, you know, this is good stuff. And so I helped a few other people free of charge and all this stuff. And then finally someone said, you should do this full time. And I said, Okay, that sounds like a good idea.

Heather Pearce Campbell 20:14
Getting bonked on the head, by the universe, right with this message, like, you’re good at it. That this is this is something that you can do. And I, I personally love that that message came from the Tony Robbins organization, because you were such a fan of his work at the time. So that had to be a really powerful thing to receive.

Craig Valine 20:35
Yeah, and so I it really did, it was it was cool. It was a big pat on the back that I needed. My family had kind of, as I mentioned, before I was an alcoholic home, we were kind of separated a little bit. And so I wasn’t getting a lot of kudos or, or, you know, that a boys on the back. So I really needed that. And so, you know, I got some ideas from a book that I got. And I started helping some friends who had businesses just, you know, suggestions. It’s like, when you offer help, and people haven’t asked for it. It’s not always well received. But in this case, a couple of them and said, You’re right, I shouldn’t be doing that I should be capturing the names and information to people that walk in, I should be offering something else. When they buy this, I should be following up after the sale to make sure they’re happy with the sale, things like that. Right. And so that’s when I got offered, they said you should do this for full time. And so I started in, you know, I thought everybody needs help, because I see these businesses and they’re working too hard. They’re not making enough money, they just need help. But that’s not the way it is. I quickly found after number one after being broke for about two years. And I was engaged at that time with high expectations for being someone who was successful. I paid a lot of money to learn how to do it right. And I quickly learned that, you know, an expert is sought out. They are not you they don’t chase you know, so in what I was doing, I was chasing the people here you need what I have to offer here you need, you know, you need to make more money, you need to fix your advertising and all this stuff. So, again, after paying almost 100 grand in fees and courses and you know, things like that seminars, I finally figured out how to do it right. And that has changed my life. And so you know, I jokingly people say, actually, someone called me the former struggling consultant, but I said, Yeah, I struggled once and they said you’re the former struggling kids by that moniker for the last 1520 years.

Heather Pearce Campbell 22:35
I love it when other people label us. I’ve got a couple of questions for you. But before we dig into those, let’s take a pause and hear from our episode sponsor today. Today’s sponsor is turnkey podcast. Now I have a quick story about the guys behind the turnkey podcast because last year, I launched this podcast, I had not considered having a podcast before intersecting with Doug Sandler and Strickland Bonner. We met at an event in San Diego right before COVID hit. And of course these guys are podcast experts. They are both podcasters and hosts of multiple podcasts including the wildly popular nice guys on business podcast. They have created and produced over 1000 episodes of their own podcast interview interviewing hundreds of guests from well known celebrities to everyday working heroes. Their show has been downloaded nearly 4 million times and shared millions of times in over 175 countries. turnkey podcast productions leadership team are thought leaders in the podcast space, and they want to help you launch your podcast, build community grow your influence and monetize your show to Doug and Stricker, the perfect pair to bring you professional award winning service to help you put your best foot forward. So again, back to that time in San Diego when I crossed paths with these guys. Of course, they said to me, You need a podcast at the time I thought I do. And then I thought about it. And I thought you’re right. I do. So with their guidance. I joined their program, the ultimate podcast Launch Formula. I went from not even thinking about having a podcast to not only thinking about it but literally having one launched in about four weeks. If you think that’s not possible for you, let me tell you it is I am mom to two busy wild children at home. This was in the middle of COVID. So my kids were out of school I had no childcare, no nannies, nothing in place and I’m also behind the scenes running two separate business. says, so if I can do it, you can do it. And with these guys help it, you will find that it is so streamlined, it is so easy. They cut out all of the unnecessary stuff that you can skip, they help you go from A to Z, and do it very quickly. So be sure to check them out at turnkey podcast.com. If you are an expert, an online educator, a coach, a consultant, a speaker and author and you know that you need your own podcast, be sure to jump over check them out again at turnkey podcast.com. The ultimate podcast launch formula is right there on their homepage and it will show you that you are the expert in your podcast. We’ll prove it. Okay, and Now back to today’s fabulous guest. Okay, we are back. This is Heather Pearce Campbell, and I am connecting today with Craig valene, a marketing specialist and somebody who is sharing a bunch of wisdom about not only his journey, but what he has learned to teach others. And, Greg, there were a couple of things you said one, this concept about experts don’t chase, they’re sought after, right and you realizing that I think anybody who’s listening who, you know, has struggled with marketing or struggled with connecting to exactly the right prospect or struggled with generating the kind of income that they want to create. They they understand that feeling of chasing versus being sought after. Yeah. Right. And, and then you you moved into also talking about, you know, your education and what it took, you know, paying other people $100,000, right, to get an education and to inform your journey. Talk to us first about the moment the kind of the Epiphany you had about the you know, being sought after versus chasing. And then I want to ask you some things about your education.

Craig Valine 27:08
Well, this one is easy, you know, for the people that I used to chase in, someone would say, Yeah, I need some help. But it was very often not the help that I was great at, you know, when you are, especially when you’re engaged, and you have to prove a point, you have to bring in some money, you’ll do anything to just get some money to pay the bills. And so I did a lot of things out of my scope of expertise. And that led to people taking advantage of me speaking to me and in a not so polite way, dictating the terms of what, how and will and what amount I would get paid and things like that. Those were the people that I chased that, you know, I said, I can help you with that I can do that I can help you, you know, versus, and you can relate to this, I’m sure as a podcast guest in a speaker is that when you speak at the front of the room, and someone says I so connected with what you just said, I loved your story about this, how can I learn more about you, you know, and then they follow you into your will just for lack of a better word, your funnel, you know, they’ll reach out to you, they’ll go to your website and listen to your podcasts, they’ll enter their email address and name. Now, we didn’t have all that back when I was, you know, started out. But I did speak. You know, I spoke at rotary meetings, I spoke at networking groups. I’m a past president of the California Junior Chamber of Commerce. So I made sure that I was a resident marketing expert, I was helpful first, right. And that’s another thing is like, if you give first, you know, you bond with your audience by giving some useful, helpful information, people, you know, very often as much as they could probably do it on their own possibly, you know, they will seek you out because they still have questions, unanswered questions that they just feel they need an expert to help them with. And so, I mean, that’s simple example says exactly how it happened. More I spoke, the more I did public events, the more that people did when teleseminars came along, and then webinars and so on and so forth. You know, my life got tremendously easier. Yeah. You know, and I think that is a common occurrence among experts.

Heather Pearce Campbell 29:17
Yeah. Well, and I think so many at least I can speak from my experience. So many of the people that I serve are givers. So that whole give first philosophy is really natural for a lot of the folks that I work with. But, you know, at some point, you have to change that conversation. When you’re enrolling clients. When you’re actually running a business making a sale, right? It becomes a different conversation, but that giving First, there is a magic that happens when you show up and just educate or give or make somebody’s life better. And even in my experience, even if they don’t come to you right away. So let’s say you’re talking to some Get a rotary club or you’re giving a, you know, a local event, some support by being one of their speakers, what happens is even if that person does run off and try to do the thing on their own, usually they get frustrated at some point, right? Because there’s a reason we’re an expert in this particular area, and they’re not. And so it’s like planting seeds. The way I think about it is like, you just have to keep planting those seeds, because it inevitably will bring them back around if you do it right.

Craig Valine 30:31
You know, that’s so true. You know, there was a specialty dentist here in LA, who met me. About eight years ago, I spoke at a UCLA dental school alumni meeting. And three of my clients were in attendance there, and I got introduced to this man while I was there. And his first response to me when he met, he goes well, but have you ever worked with a periodontist? And it’s like, as if a periodontist is extremely different than a prosthodontist and endodontist, and all these other things. And I said, No, but the principles are the same, the fundamentals remain the same. So for the next eight years, he would follow me, he subscribed to my email list, he came to two of my public events. He listened and watched as the people that I work with, from that group grew their practices, who grew personally and professionally as a result of working with me. And then eight years later, he’s now worth $30,000. To me, and we just started working together about seven months ago, and he’s happy he’s excited. He could he just bet he didn’t beg me. He goes, how do we work together? How what you know, I basically, I want to give you money. That’s what he said. And so it takes what it takes. Some people are sold, the moment they meet you, some people, it takes time, and you can’t just get rid of people if they fit your ideal prospect profile?

Heather Pearce Campbell 31:52
Yeah. Well, and I love that phrase, it takes what it takes, because I think people can buy into this idea that like, Oh, you’ve got to convert somebody within a certain timeframe, right? Or they’re lost. And it’s like, no to me, you’ve got to invite them into a conversation and then keep having that conversation until the timing is right for them. Right. And what happens, I think, is people just stop having the conversation, they stopped delivering the value, and then that’s how they lose people. But I agree, it’s, it’s always fascinating to me, when somebody does come out of the woodwork and you know, you’ll learn like, oh, I’ve been following your work for years. And you’re like, what, how am I just now knowing about you, right? And so, in modern times, we don’t always know when somebody’s seeing our stuff. We don’t always know who’s on the other side consuming our videos, or whatever it is that we’re putting out. But it’s really important that we keep doing that. Absolutely. Absolutely. So talk to us, because I think there are also a lot of people that can relate to kind of the pain that you’ve expressed about this $100,000 education.

Craig Valine 32:56
Yeah, right. Yeah, part of it is thinking that I know better than them. I’ve tried that. I did this, it didn’t work. No, people won’t do that, you know, you set up your biases ahead of time, instead of listening to what the coach or the expert says, you know, that’s a recipe for success, and just about everything we can do as humans. And if we just follow the recipe to the tee, and get rid of our own biases, like I know better, instead of those tomatoes, I should use these tomatoes. And should it said of that spice, I should use this spice. You know, it’s very much a recipe for success. And if we, if we try to deviate from it, we’re gonna get a different result. And that was me for a while I know better.

Heather Pearce Campbell 33:37
And so you were, I’m hearing you say that you were consuming the services but not following it to the letter. Is that right? So you were consuming a lot and just still trying to pave your own way?

Craig Valine 33:49
Well, and the other thing is, too, and I know many, many entrepreneurs were guilty of this, I’m, you know, just a junkie for information. It’s like I read this, and I’m like, oh, there’s another seminar coming up, I gotta get into that, or I’ve got to get Dan Kennedy’s new product, or I got to read this book,

Heather Pearce Campbell 34:06
whatever, whatever that gene is. It’s embedded into my into my genetics as well.

Craig Valine 34:11
Yeah, you’re the perfect type of client, for me, the buyer, a buyer, as a buyer, as a buyer. And that’s what we want. We want people who invest in themselves, you know, especially as you and I as experts, we want people who consume this stuff on a regular basis, not people who we have to go back and forth back and forth with why it’s valuable. They know why it’s valuable because they’ve been investing in themselves on a regular basis. The lesson for me was, let’s actually implement what we learned before we move on to the next course.

Heather Pearce Campbell 34:41
Yeah, yeah, no, and that that part is huge about implementation because I do think depending on, you know, people’s personality types, and I’m sure you know, this having worked in the space that you work in for however many years, certain expert personalities are the kinds that naturally feel like they know better, they shouldn’t have to follow somebody else’s system or, you know, they really need to sit with it for a while or test it out themselves before they’re willing to invest or try something new and the you know, all day long, the people who take fast action and just experiment and try it are going to win the race.

Craig Valine 35:20
You know, the the other thing is, is that that ego that we know better than than they do, it really comes down to are you sick and tired of being sick and tired? You know, that happens with all change, whether it’s losing weight, quitting smoking, stopping drinking, stopping drugs, it’s like, my life is not acceptable anymore, I must do that. I just started a challenge, a physical challenge four weeks ago, called the deliberate discomfort challenge. And it covers six areas of personal growth, including physical, spiritual, social, emotional, inspirational, and, you know, it’s, it’s all encompassing, but I’m only able to do that challenge, because I got sick and tired of the way that I felt and I looked, I gained like, I’m not even gonna give the amount – I gained a lot of COVID pounds.

Heather Pearce Campbell 36:06
So many people are right there with you.

Craig Valine 36:11
I have been sitting in this chair, doing nothing, not getting up and doing all the activities that I was used to doing. And, and I just got, I saw a picture of myself, and I said, No way, I cannot live this way anymore. that motivated me to major change. And the same thing happened. When I, when I, when I my went from failure to success, I reached a point where I said, God, I don’t want to live this way anymore, please help me do something different. I literally, I’m not a truly religious person, I believe in God. But I just looked up and I said, Please, I’ll do whatever you tell me to do. And what’s funny is the moment I did that, let’s say a moment equals a day, a day, a day later, I got an email from the guy starting the new Gk IC chapter in the Pasadena area. And I’ve been waiting for this to happen. And so I reached out to him, and I said, I’ll get eight people there. You know, I sent it out to like, 200 people. And I went, and he said, look at all the people you brought in, he goes, we should talk, because he was from LA, I was from Pasadena, the meeting was in Pasadena. And he says, I want your help, I guess I’m gonna make you the director of this local organization, you’ll be the voice, and yada, yada, yada. And that was one of the major turning points. And guess what that included being at the front of the room every month, being emailing, sharing content, you know, things like that, and, and in association with Dan Kennedy, and Bill Glazer, which added more credibility, but people started to see me as the expert to see me as the person who could help them reach their goals in the fastest time possible. And that’s when it’ll change. And I said, you know, there’s something to this thing.

Heather Pearce Campbell 37:51
Well, definitely, and the thing I love about that story, and you know, people can call it whatever they want. But to me, it really reflects the power of decision. When we decide – things happen, things move. The universe aligns, like it wants to know what we want, so that opportunities can line up. And whether you believe that the universe supports us or not, whether you just think it’s the way the human mind works. I don’t think it really matters, whether you believe one way or the other, but we will see and we will recognize opportunities and things that we need to do when we decide.

Craig Valine 38:31
Yeah, you know what, when you finally make a decision that big in your life, all of a sudden, other decisions come more easily. You know, as Tony Robbins would say, start making more decisions, you know, and see how it benefits you. And finally, you know, it’s just all of a sudden, things are easier in my life. It’s like, life is difficult. Life is challenging. But things are easier in my life. Because I can say yes or no, yes, I want that. No, I don’t want that. That’s Yeah.

Heather Pearce Campbell 38:58
Well, and I have, I’ve personally seen how many people building their businesses get stuck in decision paralysis, or, you know, they don’t know which path to follow, or what thing to try. So they just don’t move. They just don’t do anything, right. But I love that story as a way that things you know, open up when you decide. Now, I want to be sure that we get into because I love you know, the whole concept of how to find the hidden pot of gold within your business, which I know is one of the things you teach people how to do. Do you want to walk us through that a little bit?

Craig Valine 39:32
Sure. If I would you like me to go through those five sources of power that we talked about? Oh, sure. Absolutely. Just for the sake of time. Yep. So I like we talked about earlier. You know, there people are already doing things to grow their business. If they are making money in their business. They’re doing something that gets the attention of someone else that says yeah, I’m interested I want your product or service. So the hidden pot of gold I work we call these leverageable opportunities, leverage means Can we get a better result for the same time at the same time, money and effort, we have these assets. They’re not like, you know, a computer or something like that. They’re just things that can’t have value that we leave, either underutilized, we’re not using them enough to get all the money we can out of it or the value, or you just don’t even realize they’re there. So the pot of gold is just lying there. And I believe there are five sources of power of that gold sitting right in your business. Number one, is your list in the relationship you have with that list. Now people have their own biases to receiving emails and things like that. But you have to get over that. Email works. That’s why it exists. So we have to communicate with our list. If you don’t like email, then send a regular newsletter, send a regular direct mail piece to your list, stay in touch one way or another, make phone calls, however it is, but you have to maintain a relationship with the lists that you have. And those may include current clients, past clients, future clients, it may even exist, referral partners, people that you can form partnerships with them to get referrals. And likewise, you offer referrals. The second one is your reputation. What are you known for? What do you want to be known for? When people seek you out? It’s like, you’re the legal website warrior, right? So it’s like, that’s what you’re known for. If you go through your website, I can figure out exactly what you do. You know, when you arrive on summit, when you arrived on my LinkedIn page, it says exactly what I do. I tackled the hidden marketing assets and overlooked opportunities within the business. And if clearly stated, if I could enunciate it, it’s like, you know, you’re doing this, let’s do this, let’s get a better result for what you’re already doing. Number three is your marketing. If you have marketing that’s working, that’s an asset that has potential power for you. What we have to do is more of it. So if you’re already doing emailing your list for, for instance, once a month, I know people do that. I know people who don’t even do that. But let’s say you’re doing it once, let’s try once a week. Let’s try once a day, let’s try several times a day. I mean, you I’m sure you’re on some list where you get three or four a day. I do you know, Ben settle Frank Kern, you know, many people like that they stay email strategically. And guess what, because I have a relationship with them, I don’t mind. Now some of them, I go already saw that, or I know what this is about. So I delete it. But I’ll look to see what’s coming in because I have a relationship with that person. And that’s what’s most important. If you email the people you don’t have a relationship with they will unsubscribe, that’s okay. But if you know you want to create a bond with your list, number four is specific marketing advantage. What do you do that no one else can does? Or will? What do you offer that no one else can does? Or will? Do you have specific expertise that nobody else does? are you communicating it more than someone else’s, that’s the law of preeminence being out there when nobody else is doing it? And you are, you kind of create a category of one for yourself. So being able to articulate that specific marketing advantage is critical. And number five, which is probably the most important is clarity, clarity of communication, clarity of who your prospect is, clarity of your marketing message, making sure it’s clear and understandable. In its irresistible, clarity is critical. And without clarity, you don’t really have a lot of the other things, but they’re all valuable. And they’re all just sitting like a big pot of gold in your business. And if you know, if you’re struggling to go, I don’t know where to go, I’m making some money, but I’m not doing top tackle those five sources of power right now. And you will, you will absolutely, positively generate more sales.

Heather Pearce Campbell 43:59
Well, you I mean, you’ve shared some great examples within that list. And even even the first one, the power of a list or a database or whatever, wherever you collect your people and their contact information, how you communicate with them, you know, as an attorney, because I did most of my career, you know, in a in the traditional sense of law building my practice working directly with my clients. And it’s been the last handful of years that I created this whole second business, right, the legal website warrior and really serving a very, very specific niche of the Small Business marketplace. And it took me a while because I’m a mom of a couple little crazy people that demand all kinds of, you know, time and attention and it’s wonderful. But being consistent in my business was not one of my early strengths. It just wasn’t there yet. I was a hard worker and I’d put in all kinds of hours but having any kind of consistency with some of my patterns, took a little while to develop. And it was interesting because the first year that I was at To hell or high water commit to emailing every single week like clockwork, and it took several hours to put a thoughtful personal email lots of resources together, you know, it’s not for everyone. It was fascinating to watch what happened. I got to know my list. People emailed back, when I didn’t email, I actually had a period where I wasn’t well, for a little while, I got emails from people like, where are you? I didn’t see your email this week. And like, genuinely worried and reaching out to make sure I was it blew me away. Like, they’re listening. They’re paying attention. They’re actually opening my emails and reading this stuff. And then I would hear from people sporadically about like one of the stories i’d shared somewhere deep in the middle of an email. And it’s, it’s always fascinating to get that feedback and go, Oh, okay, this, this matters, it is making a difference. And until you’re consistent, you don’t know it, and you don’t see it and write and there was one month, actually, during COVID, where I couldn’t work because of some family obligations and stuff that came up. And I just sent like a kind of a flash sale, email the end of that month to my list and generated like $7,000, just in quick sales. Because I had been emailing consistently, right, I had nurtured that list. And that to me was the first exam example of like, how powerful that could be, because I’ve never done that before. I tend to, you know, be a nurturer. And really nurture that relationship. And I don’t do a lot of selling direct selling to my list. And so I did it. And it worked. That’s awesome. Yeah, that’s awesome. But it’s, you know, I think it it really takes observing what it is that you’re doing, and also being able to do something consistently before you’re going to notice what are the results otherwise, it’s just too sporadic.

Craig Valine 46:56
Right. The relation, what you just mentioned, is exactly the response you should get from people. I used to do a regular mail newsletter. And when they didn’t get it, they would like where’s your newsletter? I look forward to that every month. And when I get emails, when I get responses to all my love that email, I love your story. I love that, you know, I can’t do it now. But I would love to do it later. And it’s like, you know, they’re reading the emails. Yeah. And that’s what you look for.

Heather Pearce Campbell 47:20
That’s what’s so nice. Well, and I love this idea that your reputation is a pot of gold, right? I think it’s easy for people to overlook that. Yeah,

Craig Valine 47:31
you know, who you associate with matters. what people say about you matters, what their say about in your testimonials and your accolades. What you say about yourself, your reputation, it’s like, I’m, you know, I used my son in my marketing for a long time, he was affectionately known as mini me. Now, he’s college boy. And people still ask me how old is mini me now? And I say, Oh, he’s a sophomore in college. Oh, my God, you know, that’s my reputation. My reputation is of being a great father. And I haven’t said that I’m a great father. I never will say that a great father, I’m very humbled by that, because I might do my darndest to just be satisfactory, you know. I mean, you know, it’s humbling to have such a good kid who turned out so well. And, you know, it’s like, I just did what I could, you know, but, you know, the reputation is that I’m a loving father that I go to all those events, I talk about them all the time. And I strategically created that because by using him, in that scenario, it’s kind of like personality and copy, use, use your life, use your pets, use your partner, use your child, create a story, create a character so that people have a connection device, if they don’t just connect, everyone does another lawyer somewhere that someone can connect with, but they’re going to connect with you because number one, your angle about which your specific marketing advantage, if you will, but you they’re going to connect with you being a mom, being a former corporate attorney, being all these things, you know, just the identification is what they need, they need to bond and that’s how they’ll stay with you for life is that bond that they have, that they feel they have with you.

Heather Pearce Campbell 49:06
That’s right. Well, and that is, you know, being able to experience that and beyond that be on the receiving end of messages that let you know, like, oh, wow, this person and I ran one of the things I did last year is in addition to my newsletter and being consistent every single week, I ran the moment COVID hit and I realized holy cow a whole bunch of people are gonna be in trouble and there, they don’t have their businesses online. They don’t have their stuff figured out they they are capable of doing amazing work but you know, we’ve got to get them online and doing that work. I ran a weekly asked me anything, live with a big focus to help people understand the online space and legal stuff related to being online and how to get it all you know, put together and, and doing that every week the entire year. It was wonderful though, to see people come out of the way Work that had connected with me five or six years previously and say, you know, you created this one contract and it changed my coaching business, you know, and then come tell me what they’re doing now and give them some additional help. And it made me realize like, wow, when you’re able to serve somebody in a way that at a future point in time, when they have a need come up again, they’re gonna come find you versus go somewhere else in the marketplace. Right? Absolutely. Yeah. So that was really fun. And I love on your list, the specific marketing advantage, right, knowing your special sauce. Do you think that’s hard for people to figure out? Do you think people struggle with that one?

Craig Valine 50:42
You know, I think they do. You know, they unique is a word. So that’s that stems from the word unique selling proposition or unique selling. I don’t even know what else they call but USP unique selling proposition yelled marketing term coined in the 60s by reality and advertising, Russell Reeves. But it really means, you know, if someone’s prospects are always asking themselves, why should I buy from you? Why should I choose you versus every other every other option available to me, including doing nothing right now? So if I need what you have to offer, why you versus any, every other option? And so you have to be able to answer that. And it’s so there’s easy thing. Actually, I have the best way to answer it. I’m the only we’re the only so we’re the only ones you know, for retail store can be were the only ones open 24 hours, we’re the only ones who have this product and service in the Los Angeles area. We’re the only ones who provide a money back guarantee, no questions asked. If you can say we’re the only there’s a specific marketing advantage, if you’re the only person doing legal website, you know, legal website language and disclaimers and courses in on this topic. Even if you’re not the only but you were the first one or you have a slant. You have a you know, I was the first one to do it in the coaching arena. I was the first one to do it in this area, you can isolate it. You know, a lot of people just get so focused. I don’t know, I don’t know. Well, what do you do better than anybody else? communicate that? Yeah, that everybody has a unique talent?

Heather Pearce Campbell 52:16
No, I love that and being able to, and I love the that even that brief sentence, I am the only because it really gets people thinking in a different way, right blue ocean versus red ocean. And that’s powerful. If you can come up with that. The final point on clarity, talk to us about the importance of having clarity in your message in your business. What does that mean?

Craig Valine 52:43
Well, it means be specific, rather than random. You know, don’t you know, entrepreneurs are head cases where where we are, we’ve got so many ideas and so much information ran, you know, like I said, I was one course after another so much information. Maybe I should have this as my client, maybe I should be doing this. Maybe I should offer this maybe, you know, it’s like, have clarity. Who do you most identify with? Who do you who look through your list? And who what are the common traits? What are the commonalities between the people you’ve done business with in the past? What is your unique skill? What is your unique trait? What is, you know, you just have to be clear, it’s just being clear versus being random. And once you’re clear, have purpose, do that thing over and over and over and over again. And that goes back into what do you want to be known for, you know, when you’re known for this, you’re going to be the number one expert people are drawn to. And so there is not another marketing performance strategist on this earth unless they copied me. I’m known as the person who enhances marketing performance. Now, my mentor Jay Abraham does that, but he’s 1000 times more expensive than I am, you know, but but I’m the only marketing performance strategist as far as I know and in the world. And so I’m known as that and I make it clear that that’s the case. Again, clarity I’m, I’m a marketing consultant, and my you know, you just have to get straight it, you know, the best way to do it is just start writing down what you you know, number one, who you are, what you do, who is your best client, who is not your best client is also just as important to repel those people so that you don’t waste a lot of time, money and effort. being clear about what your price point is, being clear on why you’re in business in the first place. It’s like I am in business for the freedom number. Let me be clear, to make an impact. I want to I want others not have to struggle like I did when I was in business. Number two, it’s really to create a lifestyle around my family, my life. When my son was row going up. It absolutely positively was all around, dropping him off at school, volunteering at school, picking up from school being available, and then I make time for my clients. You know, but You know, clarity just means be specific about who, what, where, why, when, and how. And you will most likely have great results as a result of that.

Heather Pearce Campbell 55:09
Yeah, well, I feel like this brings us full circle back to the piece of the conversation earlier where you were saying, you know, in the early days, when you just needed to make a buck, you were willing to try to help whoever right, you were trying to do the work with whoever crossed your path. And that caused some problems. You specifically said, You worked with people who didn’t value you and the way they should? Or had you working outside the scope of what you wanted to be doing. And this is, I think, one of the other benefits of clarity, because from the legal perspective, I have to help people unwind those scenarios when they go outside the bounds and something goes wrong, right. And very often I tell them, like, there are red flag client scenarios, and there are red flag clients and being able to spot what makes somebody a red flag client. And what you know, what is a red flag scenario, it’s usually when we don’t have clarity about either with the service that we’re providing what we’re willing to do, whether we’re willing to fudge the lines for this particular person, because they asked for it, that’s generally a red flag. If somebody’s saying I want it done this way. And that’s not within your system. It’s not how you treat other clients, or it’s not the service you provide to other clients. Right? It’s probably going to backfire. Some way.

Craig Valine 56:30
Yeah, you have to be clear about what you’re willing to do and what you’re willing not to do. And, you know, I, I am a big proponent of having a script, just a guide bullet points to go through, make sure you’ve covered these things. And if anything, is red flag, like you said, you know, you know, that’s out of my scope of expertise, but I can refer you to somebody else.

Heather Pearce Campbell 56:49
Totally. Being fast to refer is huge. I feel like it could save so many people heartache if they were better at that. Amen. Yeah. So of the five, you know, I’ll call them pots of gold, the sources of power that you just talked about, which one is the most important? Where do people start? If they’re trying to take a kind of a second look at their business and reevaluate What’s going on?

Craig Valine 57:14
Well, you know, I kind of alluded that clarity was, was very, very important. But if you need to generate some quick income, start with your list. Start with you know, that is, because that’s part of the marketing that we’ll start, you know, doing, you know, you just set it to is that during the COVID time you go online every week and did it did a broadcast, right, or did a live event, create some value for your list, start that relationship and say, Hey, I’m going to be doing a live event, you know, I want to help in any way I can, with your expertise, that sort of thing. And say, you’ve got questions, I’ve got answers, come on board and ask anything you’d like to do, just start the relationship. So number one, you can bond with them, you can create, tell your story about where you’ve been, and why you haven’t been online and, and make it up to them. And then, you know, don’t be afraid to have to ask for action. Give them something irresistible, that they can’t refuse, whether it’s a free resource, or whether it, whether it’s something that they will pay for a night, the reason I say it’s okay to give away something free, get them used to taking action again, if then make, you know, propositions and offers. So just get in the habit of making offers, whether they are free offers or whether they’re for money offers. But yeah, start with the list. Just get ready. And don’t be afraid because you might not like emails, or you might not like receiving communications, email works. sending letters in the mail works picking up the phone works, build upon those relationships.

Heather Pearce Campbell 58:48
Now, I love that. Yep. And you just got to you got to keep doing it. You got to do it consistently and keep it up so that people know you’re not going anywhere. Right. So Craig, for people that are listening and are like, gosh, I want to learn more about Craig, I want to check him out online. I want to learn more about how he supports his clients. Where do you like to show up online?

Craig Valine 59:11
You know, I have a free Facebook community that I created for consultants, coaches and subject matter experts. That website or that URL to get there is www dot expert growth and profits.com expert growth and profits calm. I you know, we have a good community that just started growing and, you know, we do some live trainings in there we get shares for what people are going through, you know, it’s a way to bond with other consultants, coaches and experts. I really love that community. And I’m doing that as a passion. You know, because like I said, when I started out, I failed until I figured it out and I just don’t want people to have to fail as long as I did right? Was struggle with a part of their business. If you’re interested in more, you can go to Craig valene marketing com That’s my main website right now. There, there’s lots of different ways that we can connect. But on there, you roll down the page, you’ll see that there’s a free resource called 10 ways to leverage old accumulated leads. So if you’ve ever gotten leads that you never did anything with, we just talked about the list, right. Or if you’ve gone to physical events, and you had a stack of business cards, I have bags of business cards, I have 10 ways to leverage those to get a better result from them and get them back doing business with you, if you want. That is available right on the website. So I’d love for anybody who wants that to grab it.

Heather Pearce Campbell 1:00:37
Awesome. So if you’re listening, be sure to check out those links, including Craig’s Facebook group, his website, where he’s also got that free gift. And I will share those links, Craig at the show notes page, which is legalwebsitewarrior.com/podcast, you can go there and find Craig’s episode. And we’ll have all of his links, including other places that he shows up on social media. Craig, it’s been such a pleasure to connect with you today. It’s, I feel like, you know, we can continue this conversation for hours longer. But for folks that are still listening, what final, either action point do you want to leave them with or takeaway for folks that have hung with us?

Craig Valine 1:01:20
You know, with with whatever you’re doing, to market and promote yourself? Always be asking how much better result can I get if I just tried a different approach, tried a different message, maybe tried a different media, I will share a quick story to emphasize my point, when I started out as a struggling consultant, I used to go to Chamber of Commerce meetings. And my primary market was consultants, experts, and coaches. When I go, there’ll be like one or two people there. And so in those people, you know, if you’re lucky, maybe they invest in themselves, maybe they don’t. When I switched my audience, when I stopped going to the chamber meetings alone, and I went to the Association of independent consultants. 95% of the room was my target audience. And it took about the same time, money and effort to go to that event and reach a broader audience. And that’s what I mean. So test, we use that word test earlier in this conversation, test one thing versus another to see, can I get a better result? Or am I getting a good result? You know, right now, and what else could I be doing? You know, that sort of thing. Just don’t ever settle for the results you’re getting, because it’s always an opportunity for a better result.

Heather Pearce Campbell 1:02:36
I love that I feel like, you know, that simple question of where am I showing up? And how is that working is so powerful, because I think a lot of people will get attached to a platform or they think like, oh, all my peers are here. This is what I should be doing. And actually all their people are over on LinkedIn right or whatever. And I have found that time and again, that people are just showing up in the wrong place. They could be having the same conversation in a different location and have drastically different results. absolutely, positively. Yeah, Craig, such a pleasure to see you. Thank you very much for joining us today. I I really look forward to having my listeners get to hear from you. Really appreciate it.

GGGB Outro 1:03:22
Thank you for joining us today on the Guts, Grit & Great Business Podcast. We hope that we’ve added a little fuel to your tank, some coffee to your cup and pep in your step to keep you moving forward in your own great adventures. For key takeaways, links to any resources mentioned in today’s show and more see the show notes which can be found at legalwebsitewarrior.com/podcast. Be sure to subscribe to the podcast and if you enjoyed today’s conversation, please give us some stars and a review on Apple podcast, Spotify or wherever you get your podcast so others will find us, too. Keep up the great work you are doing in the world and we’ll see you next week.