October 31st, 2023
With David Schultz, a psychotherapist who created the Mind Targeting™ method to guide his clients to a deeper understanding of self through “parts work” and thinking of self as a system. David helps his executive and entrepreneur clients around the world increase their capacity for leadership through this work.
David holds Doctorate and Masters degrees in Clinical Psychology (CSPP), accredited by the American Psychological Association, a Masters in Research Psychology from California State University, Long Beach), and a Bachelor of Science in Business. He has worked with and trained many psychotherapists, business coaches and graduate students around the world in the Mind Targeting™ Method.
Join us for this conversation where we dive into the world of inner dialogue and personal growth. In this episode, we explore the transformative power of using parts work and language to help clients better understand and relate to their own emotions and desires leading to resolving the dissonance among them. David also shares his valuable insights on the roles of inner parts in shaping personalities, and practical conflict resolution through his Mind Targeting™ Method.
Takeaways & quotes you don’t want to miss from this episode:
- The overlap between business and the mind and consciousness.
- How to help your clients work through internal conflicts.
- The concept of “parts” in the human psyche.
- Using imagery and breathing techniques to address root causes of emotional reactivity.
- How important is it to get to know oneself and understand one’s inner workings for personal growth and better relationships?
“When you know what part of you that’s being triggered and you know how to get that part into a safe play, it calms down and then you calm down, then you feel better…”-David Schultz
Check out these highlights:
- 05:38 How David shifted from general contracting into business.
- 15:39 What is the greater benefit of mind targeting compared to other models?
- 20:07 David shares an example of a client having dissonance among parts and describes what that could look like in a real-life setting.
- 27:51 David’s technique for working with parts of the self.
- 55:44 Final takeaway thought to leave people with.
How to get in touch with David on Social Media:
Imperfect Show Notes
We are happy to offer these imperfect show notes to make this podcast more accessible to those who are hearing impaired or those who prefer reading over listening. While we would love to offer more polished show notes, we are currently offering an automated transcription (which likely includes errors, but hopefully will still deliver great value), below:
GGGB Intro 00:00
Here’s what you get on today’s episode of Guts, Grit and Great Business®…
David Schultz 00:04
So when you’re getting triggered in a certain way, you know what part of you it is that’s being triggered and you know how to comfort or get that part into a safe play. So it calms down and then you calm down, then you feel better. So when you’re at work, and let’s say something’s you’re feeling reactive, you know what part of you it is, you know where that part would like to be, usually people use breathing techniques and all those things, but their death just suppresses things. It doesn’t go to the root and solve them in.
GGGB Intro 00:33
The adventure of entrepreneurship and building a life and business you love, preferably at the same time is not for the faint of heart. That’s why Heather Pearce Campbell is bringing you a dose of guts, grit and great business stories that will inspire and motivate you to create what you want in your business and life. Welcome to the Guts, Grit and Great Business® podcast where endurance is required. Now, here’s your host, The Legal Website Warrior®, Heather Pearce Campbell.
Heather Pearce Campbell 01:01
Alrighty, welcome. I am Heather Pearce Campbell, The Legal Website Warrior®. I’m an attorney and legal coach based here in Seattle, Washington, serving online information entrepreneurs throughout the US and the world. Welcome to my guest today, Dr. David Schultz, I am super excited to bring you Dr. Schultz in a new episode of Guts, Grit and Great Business®. Welcome, David.
David Schultz 01:30
Thank you. Glad to be here.
Heather Pearce Campbell 01:32
We’re opposite ends of our day, your evening, because you’re over in Stockholm. Yeah, I’m in Seattle. Super good to see you. I’m really excited for folks to hear about your work today. So we met… how many years, has it been a couple of years, two years? Yeah, a few years ago through a mutual friend/acquaintance, somebody that I met at one of my live events that I was speaking at, and quickly became a fan of you and your work. And I love I would say that one of the things that I love about the way that you approach your work is how creative lash non traditional, like you have a very interesting way of approaching the way that you help your clients achieve results. And so I can’t wait to get to that for for folks that don’t know Dr. David Schultz. David is an executive business coach who provides executive coaching online. His specialty is guiding you to a deeper understanding of yourself while gently and respectfully going to the root of the issue for a permanent solution. Being a professional executive coach, and having a doctorate in clinical psychology is a powerful combination for dealing with triggers at work or negative patterns of behaviors, or reactions to people or situations when they feel stuck in. David’s one-on-one coaching has helped clients from many industries and backgrounds. He also provides executive coaching for entrepreneurs at all stages in their careers. And we’ll talk about where people can find you in a bit. But welcome, David.
David Schultz 03:11
Heather Pearce Campbell 03:12
So I would love to know, because I think you started in construction. Right? Do I have that right?
David Schultz 03:20
Here or another podcast? Well, yeah, actually, they had a little bit wrong. I was a general contractor, and I was building custom homes. First, I worked for US homes, and then as a construction manager in my early 20s. And then I started my own business, we would design homes with my architect in custom build houses until the markets crashed. That’s another story. I went back to get my education in psychology. I had a business degree before that.
Heather Pearce Campbell 03:54
Oh, excellent. So you had a business degree before you went into construction? General contracting, fine.
David Schultz 04:03
As a general contractor, right. Not very talented as far as actually making things myself, to be honest. And they didn’t carry us homes. They just gave you a manual. They just measured your aptitude. And if you had the right aptitude and they hired you. They want you to learn it their way.
Heather Pearce Campbell 04:22
Well, the interesting thing about that is have you have you ever taken the Colby test? So it’s a test. I think what they call it, it’s a test that measures Conal strengths. And it’s the only test of its kind but it basically assesses like kind of what and how you’re motivated, whether you’re intrinsically motivated, whether you’re outwardly motivated towards something, and it goes across four areas, but it turns out, some people can conceptualize, they can see it in their head. They don’t need to build it. They don’t need to be the one to be able to do it with their hands. Like they’ve got the design, they can put the plans in place. That sounds like that could be one of your strengths. But you don’t actually have to be the guy doing it. Right?
David Schultz 05:11
Well, that was one of my favorite parts was designing the houses with the architect together. And I would go into other homes that were for sale spec homes, and take pictures of different things I liked. And then I kind of told them to stick it together. And yeah, we had fun. I really did enjoy that. But that was a small portion of the work, unfortunately.
Heather Pearce Campbell 05:31
Yeah. Well, I’m curious what attracted you to a business degree in the first place? How did you choose business?
David Schultz 05:38
Well, I kind of fell into that. You know, just because I come from a family that’s business oriented. So I don’t think I was really thinking about it. To be honest, I just kind of fell into it. But then later, after the construction business, and in getting knocked on my bottom side pretty well, I would say, which is a good experience, if you can get back up. It’s not about getting knocked down. In my mind, it’s about getting back up. And then I worked my way through a master’s and, or two masters and a doctorate in clinical psychology. And then I started being a therapist, psychologist, and then and as always into mind and consciousness. In fact, when I first went back to school, I was trying to get into UCLA research, master’s program. And just kind of learn more about the mind and consciousness. So that was really what I was after. And still, that’s what I’m after. To be honest. That’s really what I like. So the way I work is quite different than most ways. And it’s I think it’s kind of like the new Zeitgeist in, in business coaching, which most of these methods originated in psychology. So since it was kind of that Zeitgeist in psychology, it’s now coming into business coaching, and I’ve been in some pretty deep into it.
Heather Pearce Campbell 07:00
When did you notice? Or when or where did that interest start? Like, at what age? Did you notice? You had a really strong interest in mind and consciousness?
David Schultz 07:11
Well, I remember. It’s interesting. Well, actually, if I go way back in high school, I remember getting there was a Life magazine, but it was like a little annual book they put out on the mind. And they just explained it in so many different ways. Like so many brains could light a light bulb or something like that, all these weird ways of looking at things. And I found that very interesting. It just, you know, they’re thinking outside the envelope. So I really liked that. And I just also remember, like, maybe around 19, or 20. I remember at that time, I was in Dallas, and I remember being at the swimming pool reading this, like 1000 page book on the brain. And I met someone
Heather Pearce Campbell 07:57
19 or 20. This is yeah, yes.
David Schultz 07:59
And I was just a really, I just was always interested in things like that. So kind of a nerd. In a way.
Heather Pearce Campbell 08:07
No, I like it. I think it’s so fun when you get to look back and see like how strong that interest was even early on. And now here you are, right, having gone through business, school and construction. And now you live in this field of overlapping business and the mind and consciousness.
David Schultz 08:32
I kind of fell into the business coaching side of it, from working with a lot of clients, as a therapist, as a private therapist. And then all of a sudden, as we’re working through issues, you know, I noticed a lot of that carried into their work or their work carried into their private. And so I started applying my methods towards business coaching. And then it was very effective. And that’s generally how I got in the door to a lot of big companies is just to well, initially working with a person privately and then seeing, and then they realized, wow, we’re doing a lot of stuff from their work with this method. So it’s very effective. So you know, I kind of fell into by chance, I guess.
Heather Pearce Campbell 09:16
I would love to know, because part of me is really curious about what if anything, you felt like didn’t work as well in the therapy model? Because I know, we’ve talked a little bit, you know, outside of this conversation about the creativity and some of the stuff you get to bring to your coaching model, right? Is it different than therapy? Is it largely the same talk to us about kind of the therapy world that you lived in and the coaching world that you are also in now?
David Schultz 09:47
Well, I guess to do that, I’d have to kind of explain the model I worked from, or I developed over the years. So the model looks itself a little bit differently. It’s not this one monolithic item, it’s more of a different parts of self, I look at it from a systems based perspective, I look at self as a system made up of different parts of self. And that’s kind of the Zeitgeist in psychology. So it’s systems based thinking, coming from family systems not to get in too much depth. And there’s many models of that. And basically, one person came up with the idea of applying the multiplicity of self or the mind, and systems thinking. So instead of looking at a family and each person individually, and how they interact with each other, he applied it to the mind. And so for example, when you’re fighting with yourself, you can just think of some part is wanting one thing and other part wants another, and it could be multiple perspectives within you. And when you’re in a certain state of, like, when you’re in your emotional intelligence, let’s say it’s different than our normal rational logic, it’s an emotional logic. And those parameters are much wider. So you’re able to deal with all kinds of issues that normally you can’t get at with just, you know, reasoning and logic and rational thinking. And then we’re driven by that a lot. And the ultimate goal is to synergize both sides so that you get a gestalt are more, one plus one is more than two in this sense. So for me, it’s really about that. So I get them into this dream lock logic, Hypno logic or emotional intelligence? Am I getting too nerdy on you?
Heather Pearce Campbell 11:37
No, I love that. Because my next question was going to be is it then the kind of the first goal of the work to get somebody out that who’s probably stuck in that rational brain trying to logic their way through everything over more into the emotional side?
David Schultz 11:55
Well, generally, the first step I do is have them explain what it is they want to work on, you know, so I, then what I do is reframe it into the way I look at it into parts language, so they can relate to it. So it’s their issue, it’s what they want to work on. And then they say, describe it to me, I have an ear for this from doing this for 20 years of hearing these different parts as they describe themselves parts of themselves. And so then what I do is I just take what they say, and I reframe it into this language, and then they can relate to what I’m talking about. If I use some sort of third party thing, it would be hard to relate to, but when it’s their own stuff, and then I reframe it this way, then they get it. It makes more sense to them. And it’s a step by step process to get them more into this process, I guess.
Heather Pearce Campbell 12:44
Totally well, and I mean, in your bio, right, you said, well, helping people get to a deeper understanding of themselves, while gently and respectfully going to the root of the issue. I know that you’re a really methodical careful person does part of you, right?
David Schultz 13:04
That’s right. Walk the walk, you know, can’t just talk that…
Heather Pearce Campbell 13:08
The hilarious part of you is that’s right. And what part is that?
David Schultz 13:12
Well, my joker part, that’s my co therapist. Just so you know, I know there’s probably scare off a few people. But my joker part named itself Paul, and my co therapist, and it’s I got the name from a movie that I can’t remember the name right now. But it was it had Paul Newman in there. Oh, Cool Hand Luke.
Heather Pearce Campbell 13:37
Oh, I love Paul Newman.
David Schultz 13:40
Yeah, it was a early movie where he’s in a prison Louisiana prison as a prisoner, and he was kind of a joker. And you know, and he is a classic movie. I thought that so that my joker part wanted to be named after the character. Luke, but I forgot the name of the character. So he just named himself Paul, because he like Paul.
Heather Pearce Campbell 14:04
Paul, yeah, totally. And that’s a great example. Because I was gonna say, does it take people a while to figure out there parts are once they’re kind of walked into the process? Does it come up pretty quickly for them? What have you noticed with your clients?
David Schultz 14:20
Usually by I mean, usually the first meeting will be just kidding, more background, and maybe me reframing it. And then but second meeting, I’ll have them connect and work with reports. You know, some people it’s the third meeting some people it’s in the first meeting. So it depends how long the meeting is, and so forth. And then I get them acclimated to it, and then it’s off to the races after that once I know they can do it, and they feel comfortable with it. And then we basically target whatever they want to target. So actually, the method I call mind targeting, so it’s just, they want to work out we can target their mind, and it takes them kind of to a deeper just kind of like what’s under the hood? You know, you’re gonna see really what’s going on inside you. And it’s kind of fun, actually. I mean, once people get that, it’s hard to think the way they used to think because it’s more explicit, they get more information. And there’s a good function to it. I mean, it’s usually very helpful for a lot of people.
Heather Pearce Campbell 15:19
When I was gonna say this separating what you typically think of as yourself, like a single unit self apart, what do you see as and I think I know the answer. But what do you see as the greater benefit of this work compared to other models?
David Schultz 15:39
Well, I think because people come in to work on some topic. But when they leave, they often know themselves in a whole another way. And they also very often, since I am a systems thinker, I think of these different parts of self, there’s a structure, usually there’s protector parts, there’s vulnerable parts. And it happens by default. It’s not like a conscious process. We know from our experiences over time, people get set up in a certain way, but it’s not necessarily necessarily the most efficient way, or even the way that makes you most happy. So by deconstructing and getting a look at the dynamics of what’s going on with a person, you can, you know, they can restructure it, we work with the parts. I mean, there’s a systems expression, which I heard, and I wish I knew who said it, but I like it a lot. And they said, it’s not about working outside the box. It’s not what’s inside the box, it’s the box. So that’s the system, the self system. So we’re working with the system we’re not working with, you know, outside or inside, we’re working with the structure that’s keeping you locked in, basically. So if you’re in dysfunctional patterns, or ways of being and you can’t get out of them, or reactions, or so forth. This helps you restructure that.
Heather Pearce Campbell 17:02
Can you obviously, without disclosing names or identity? Can you give us some examples of like, what are some of the client issues that people come in with, especially in the entrepreneurial space? And I realize some of these could be business, some of these could be personal, that trail over into business, right? It’s all connected?
David Schultz 17:23
I consider it a false dichotomy, actually. Because it’s same parts of your at home, at work.
Heather Pearce Campbell 17:30
No, right. But people may tend to think like, oh, I have a time management problem, or I have a unit Amina productivity problem or something that is causing a pain point or a pinch point for them. I guess I’m curious what you see, as people identifying as the the pinch point, that really could be something else entirely.
David Schultz 17:53
To be honest, I don’t really I don’t have the answers from my clients. But I guide them to listen to themselves in a new way, at a level. So often, there’s dissonance within a person like they’re fighting with themselves, or they are getting pulled in different directions. So I literally have a meeting of their different parts of self on the topic. And they will, you know, and I have a lot of structures and techniques I’ve developed for doing that. So they can work out their differences. And so you’re not using this is because I think of our energy as being a closed system. So instead of fighting with ourselves, if we get the synergy between the parts where they find a solution that they can all sign off on, then all that energy can be you know, aimed at going forward instead of you know, fighting with yourself. So that’s kind of the structure and the answers really reside in the clients, but they don’t know they haven’t because you know, different parts can bring up different information that you can’t always access normally. So it is pretty, I’m pretty surprised. It’s like, you know, you may feel like it’s gonna go one direction. But it’s kind of like when the jury goes out, and you know, eight of them think one way and the one thinks the other and you think it’s gonna win. That person persuades the other ones, then of course, that one ends up turning them to their side. So you never know how it goes. And I don’t know the answers, even though it’s not for me to answer them. I figured the people I work with are experts in their own fields. And I’m just helping them get to know themselves at a deeper level and to work out the dissonance that they have in themselves, or the things that they feel aren’t where they want to be. Or they just want to be more productive and just really kind of game because as you learn about yourself in this way, you also understand other people better and you can understand like, what part of us being triggered by what part of them instead of saying them and you you gets much more specific and it’s very interesting, huh?
Heather Pearce Campbell 19:45
Yeah, no, I mean, it is interesting and I think that you’ve like definitely decided described the, you know, conceptually how the process goes. Can you bring that to life a little bit by giving us an example have like a client having dissonance among parts, like describe what that could look like?
David Schultz 20:06
Well, I mean, for example, if someone’s trying to decide whether they want to leave a company and go to a different company, if they’re really upset with somebody, but they have to admit it to customer or their boss or someone under them, they have to work with. Yeah, so they’re kind of forced into this. So, you know, it’s to get them to work through this stuff. If they’re feeling extra anxious or worried or feel like they’re an impostor, that they, even though they’re doing very successful, but they don’t deserve it, I never really know where it goes. Because once they start to explore it, turn over each stone, and see what’s underneath, you know, it can change as we work, you know, to what’s really going on. So sometimes you start at one level, but when you start to really find out what’s going on, it’s quite different. And things that you carry into can be things that are things that you’ve had for a while that are getting triggered or bring brought up. So we actually follow that trail head, your mind will take you where you need to go to resolve the issues. So we just follow that. And you know, it’s quite fascinating. So it helps with many things. And it improves things that at work it also at home, or in all environments that you’re dealing with.
Heather Pearce Campbell 21:30
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Heather Pearce Campbell 23:13
So when to help people who are listening understand like hmm, you know, even dissecting this, this concept of parts, like what parts do I have? Are the parts usually equated to roles, like if somebody was listening go like, Oh, my mom part or my work or entrepreneur owner part like, can you describe what those parts can look like in a in a client that you’re working with?
David Schultz 23:41
Like for example, let’s say someone’s coming in and getting close to burnout. You know, usually what that means is there’s an ambitious part that’s running amok, in a sense. So the exhausted part is basically getting pushed out, not listened to. And then basically when they get to burnout, you know, they can’t do anything but stop, you know, they have no choice, their body closes down. But typically, you know, like I say, there’s certain parts are just in the lead. And they just, you know, and they don’t, they’re not touchy feely parts, and they’re just doing what they want. I mean, you can divide parts themselves, these ego states, they’re also called ego states, in psychodynamic and in other models, and I think of them as ego states because they have ego and they have like an opinion, I define it as having an opinion. So anytime you have an opinion, that’s like a part of you with that opinion. And yeah, so that’s usually how I hear the parts too. So we’re working on a topic and then some part has new they say one thing, if some parts are angry that they’re not like for example, let me just think of a client that I’ve been editing some video for. This gets pretty deep. Yeah, there’s some Rockem sockem stuff going on there. I have a structure for when parts are having this dissonance, where I actually have a technique I called Clear communication. So first, what I do is I connect, this actually gets pretty deep. So I don’t know how far I want to go and explain this here. But, you know, I connect to what I call core self or to a non judgmental place inside them, I’m blending parts, so they get more neutral. And once they trust this kind of higher state of being within the person, then then basically, I do that with both parties that maybe have that are disagreeing with each other, or the team leaders or could be a group of them on both sides. And I take the one most adamant on both sides. And then I basically set up a structure where they talk it out to work through their differences. And to be honest, very often, I’d say 90% of the time, within one or two exchanges back and forth, they end up being almost like best friends, because what they realize is each one is trying to help from their own perspective of what they think is helpful. And you know, the person. And so very often, they still may not agree with each other, but they kind of as they hear each other’s perspective, they widen their own perspective, until eventually there’s maybe some overlap where they can find a solution that fits both of their like the Venn diagram, where there’s an overlap, and they find that point in the middle where they that they both are okay with good enough for both of them. And then boom, now they got a solution that they both can sign off on. And it could be a third one same way, you know, they, as they listen to each other, they widen their own perspective, as they take in the other perspective, and then eventually there can be overlap, and then it’s really, so they’re not doing anything they don’t want to do they find a solution that works for all them. And that could be multiple parts. Hmm.
Heather Pearce Campbell 26:40
What’s so fascinating about this, as I hear you talk about the process is how much in my mind it even though I know the process is quite different. It sounds like mediation, like the legal process of mediation bringing these conflicted individuals together. And that’s what’s so fascinating to me about the parts work is they really are like, their own, in a sense, like, at least in some way, like their own personality, their own thoughts and opinions. And least what it sounded like you were saying is like they each need to be heard. And once that happens, they can settle down a bit like they can reach this place of neutrality, which sounds like is the goal for calming the individual overall, like having that person reach a point of, you know, being settled down a bit?
David Schultz 27:36
Yeah, I mean, like I say, it can go into a lot of depth of explaining. But basically, as you get to this core self, where this non judgmental place inside you relative to the part you’re working with, you know, the part feels more seen validated, not judge. So what I do is I am blend parts that are positive towards it or negative towards it until they get more neutral. And once they really feel seen in this way, where they’re not feeling judged, positively or negatively, but in no, this is something shifts. And that’s just the first stage of the process of working with one part. But so what they’ll do is they’ll trust you in your kind of higher state of being, but they won’t still necessarily trust other parts of you that they’re polarized with. So then I do it with the ones that they’re polarized with and then we have them work out their differences. But once they know they trust you not necessarily your other parts, then we set that sets the stage for a better communication, and then I just have them one speak on one point to the other one. And before the other one response, I make sure that they they feel they understood it. And if if they say yes, and they asked the other one, did they feel they understood it? And they say yes, then anyone how’s that feel to be heard and understood, not necessarily if they agree with them, and that calms them down. And like I said, you only need about two exchanges. The other one, it felt they didn’t understand them, I just say their stance and understand what they’re saying, then I just haven’t explained further what they think they were missing, and so forth. So it just, you know, that’s just one technique, but it’s a lot of interesting things going on. I’ll give you an example. Like, one time I was working with a guy in Scandinavia, that was like the head of you know, I forget what he was, has been many years, sales or something. And we had a meeting of his part, we had like a conference room, kind of like a conference room where a bunch of different parts showed up. And then, and basically, he wasn’t satisfied and he had like doubled or tripled their profits in the last couple of years. And he was like the top guy, and he’s doing really great on the books, but he wasn’t happy. And then all of a sudden at the meeting, one of the parts is like outside looking in the window, you know, of the meeting that he had in his mind, you know, setup. And then we asked him like, why is it outside the window and it was the part that was dissatisfied because he was always in the office all the time. And before he used to travel around to the different locations. And he didn’t even realize that’s the thing that was really upsetting. And he realized also he’s the boss. So you can do whatever you want. So you can go back and start to travel around to the different locations which you enjoy doing. And so, you know, when we he didn’t know, he didn’t realize that’s what even what was bothering him, you know, until that part was showed up outside the window, and then explain why it was upset.
Heather Pearce Campbell 30:15
So interesting. Well, that story, I mean, it brings up a couple of things. One is the concept that these parts, you know, in a sense through this process are in physical space, you can see them or conceptualize them. Right. And I think that’s part of your method. Right? Can you describe that part?
David Schultz 30:34
Yeah, you know, I call it personal mythology in my joker Park calls it that, I actually see it that way to be honest, I don’t know what comes first, the chicken or the egg? Did we create, there was, you know, did someone write about mythology, and then we internalize it, and then we projected it, you know, all that kind of stuff. But the bottom line is, these parts of self, again, I have to explain the different parameters. So if you’re in dream logic, hypnologic, or just emotional, it’s all the same. Then it’s more metaphoric and symbolic and non linear. So that’s like in dreams, things are going on. And you’re walking, you’re flying, you’re morphing from one thing to another. And when you wake up and try to think about the dream, you’re thinking, wow, how did it shift from here to here, and now I’m like this, I don’t like that. But you notice when you’re in the dream, you never question these shifts, because you’re in a different state of logic. I call it dream logic. So dream logic, hypnologic, and emotional intelligence are all the same, and it’s much wider parameters. It’s also like the example of someone who has a fear of flying, but they know logically, rationally that you know, you know, driving on the highways, higher risk of getting injured than on a plane or dying. But they may know logically, but it doesn’t matter, because this is emotional intelligence. So that’s why they still can’t fly on the plane. But they still can, you know, drive on the highway, because it’s not about rational logic, it’s a different kind of logic. And so that’s going on at work all the time. You know, you think you’re being rational, but we’re very emotional to and that really, so you got to fight fire with fire, I like to say, you know, you got to deal from where things are actually happening.
Heather Pearce Campbell 32:12
Well, I’m glad you brought up the symbolism, because like that guy outside the window, right, people get to start to interpret, like the actual symbolism of what that means. And I think it can bring really new and important meaning into their understanding that in other methods might be more challenging. The other thing is, and I’m laughing because I’m part of my brain is still thinking about that the dream logic, my daughter was telling me a dream she had were like, somebody was out to get her and her brother and she immediately morphed into a dinosaur to protect him, right. And I thought, it’s just so interesting how you know, and when you think about it in that way, like how obvious of a reaction, but the way that our brains just do that so fluidly, while we’re sleeping, we’re in that state.
David Schultz 33:03
I mean, there’s another aspect also. So these different parts of self, these ego states can be developmentally of different ages, younger kid parts can be more egocentric. concrete thinking black and white thinking. And some of those parts are at work, believe me, you know, they can be you know, if you think of narcissism or something like that very egocentric. But it’s not, I don’t judge, you know, it’s not like good or bad or right or wrong in my mind. Because some of that is good, too. Because it gets you to do things that other people wouldn’t try. Because you believe in yourself so much that you’re willing to do so a little bit of, it’s not about having this or that it’s about the balance. It’s not about right or wrong. It’s about balance and harmony. I like to say that a lot. So it’s better but if something’s like overdoing it and kind of overdoing it kind of can mess you up. And then also add there’s a lot there’s so many things I can say about it that I don’t want to bore everybody was too much detail right now.
Heather Pearce Campbell 34:07
No, but it’s you know, I love how these get illustrated, I think for folks listening, we all recognize, like certain parts of ourselves that like when present, we feel really good or we recognize that part or, you know, other parts where we’re like, like for me, clearly, my nurturing slash mom part can really conflict with my adventurous part, right? My adventurous part just wants to be off like not worrying about a darn thing, just having adventures and not worrying about physical safety, none of it right. And then my nurture part really gets very busy worrying about all the people doing all the things right. And so, you know, I think there are some obvious ways that you know, as we listen to this we can like, begin to self identify, I’m curious is the way that people can start to as they’re thinking about this, to start to recognize that a part is speaking, does that show up through thoughts, feelings, judgments? I heard you say opinions is that the way that you go like, Oh, there’s a part what, like, that’s a different part speaking.
David Schultz 35:24
Well, as you get to know your parts, and the roles, they’re in their job descriptions, and you start to recognize who’s there by the way you’re acting or the way you’re speaking, or whatever, because they’re all different. So one way to do there’s many dichotomies apart. So one is, one is gender, sometimes you’ll have opposite gender. Like my humanistic part is a female part. It’s only…
Heather Pearce Campbell 35:50
I have I know, I know that I have a super strong masculine part.
David Schultz 35:55
Yeah. And that’s normal, everyone usually has at least one or two of the opposite gender, some people more or less, but that’s one dichotomy. Another dichotomy of parts is, you know, like I say, some people, I didn’t say this exactly before, but logic based ones, you know, the rational logic based ones, and then the emotional base, they always seem to divide that way, also. So, you know, let’s say these rational logic based ones, you know, they’re really good at figuring stuff out. But they’re not the best spokesman because, even though they mean well, and they’re coming from a good place, they sound kind of mechanical tin, like, you know, and so that you they don’t have the sound in the voice that feels very empathetic or caring, you know, so, and people hear that. So I often, you know, when people are getting reactions out of people don’t understand why it’s usually because they have some part of them. That’s the wrong messenger that, you know, the intonation of the voice is, and really what people hear that more than they hear what they’re saying sometimes.
Heather Pearce Campbell 36:57
Well, and I bet that in your years of working with this model, and you know, so many clients that you can actually probably label some of those parts as you just hear people speak, hear them come up, right?
David Schultz 37:13
Well, more importantly, because of that, because they know there’s some university ality to it, like, certain types of parts, you know, like the people pleaser, that’s a common one that a lot of people have. But each person’s is their own. So and they’re all shaped by your experiences over time how they get to be the way they are. So though two people may have a people pleaser, they may not be really exactly the same. And the issue with that kind of part is sometimes people, other people try to take advantage of that part, you know, so they feel like they have problems with boundaries, because other people are taking using that part of them. You know, they’re helping too much. And then they feel taken advantage of, and they’re upset, all kinds of things that goes on. So yeah, the universe realities are parts of certain types of parts, like ambitious parts, that’s a very competent part. But each person’s are their own. So and basically, as we work with the parts, they kind of get to know the persona of that part. Its personality, its age, its modus operandi. And so they can hear when that part comes in, they get to know it themselves. So it’s not like, Yeah, I kind of can hear some stuff. But it’s more like, as you deconstruct, and you see it, and you get to know it. Like I say, the metaphor. So often people will see the parts, maybe 70 80%, maybe not initially, but after a few times, they will start to see them. And they’ll get a visual, and it won’t make any sense initially, but it but I call it a priority. And that’s my watering of philosophy, because I never really studied, it’s up for fun. So but what I mean is you get the image first. And it may not really make any sense initially why that part looks like that. But as you get to know the dynamics of that part, how it got there, what it’s up to what its role is, then it makes total sense, but you’d never understood it initially. So it’s not like you’re creating these things to figure out what’s going on is actually it’s already there. And you’re just discovering what’s inside you already and you’re getting to know that. And that really is interesting to me.
Heather Pearce Campbell 39:22
Yeah, so well, it’s you know, full disclosure, you had gifted me a session which I went through and in reflecting later, this came to me much later because you had asked me about my adventurous part and how old it was. Right? And at the time, I was like, 3536 ish, you know, that’s when I had my first child. Right, and I was reflecting back later on this conflict between the nurturing part and the adventurous part. And it just clicked like it made so much sense why in my mind, my adventure True Self is still 35. Right? So it is fascinating. And it’s totally your right, it’s totally symbolic. And it’s already there, it’s about just paying attention to it long enough to understand that deeper meaning.
David Schultz 40:16
And there’s other factors too, like dissociation. So let’s say you’re getting in a new relationship, and some parts of you that like to be wild, let’s say, all of a sudden, you can’t be wild anymore. So that part gets pushed out. And, you know, so it just depends on your work for new company, you know, and the way you relate to different people. So you gotta like, like, my joke, or part, you know, I let it be there, you know, if I had a dog, I’d have it be in the office with me too, you know, but, but they’re not allowed in the building. But, you know, it’s not for everybody, but with a little bit of humor is actually very helpful, I think, the right amount, appropriate amount. And actually, that part of me is, you know, it likes to think of itself as a smart one.
Heather Pearce Campbell 40:59
You know, the humorous part.
David Schultz 41:01
Yeah, it always gives me images, and then I will reflect some of the thoughts, you know, or the picture gives me because it gives me a metaphor, you know, a picture or something. And then it’s usually appropriate, it really fits or likes it named the other people’s parts before they do, even though I let them do it, but just to speed up the process in this part, it’s got a pretty good baton record. So it’s, like, 80 90% accurate. to speed it up, you know, and then they see if it resonates or not, or then they will shift it to what feels right. More and more sometimes, like, you know, I asked the part what it wants to be called, and then we get a better understanding how it sees itself. But if it calls itself some rude name, you know, I don’t know if I should say that online. But, you know, you assume the part didn’t name itself that and another part, with that part named it, I have a really cute clip of that with a person. And that’s, you know, and then, you know, like, wasn’t want to be called, you know, negative Nancy. Oh, well, you know, and this person allowed me to actually use this for promotion. But that doesn’t really sound well, first, I’m like, sure, once we call them negative, Nancy, and then person said, Well, no, it wants to be called The Joy killer. And then I started smiling and myself, like, I don’t think this parts naming itself, you know, like, it wouldn’t call itself, you know, some bad and hilarious as naming it. And then I said to her was the name itself or how it sees itself? What would it say? It’s called itself the responsible, right? And it was when she had a child at 21. And she had to become responsible. So it was like, there when she was 21. And she had to stop, you know, she had to, I had to be responsible, you know, just I had no choice. And that parts with her at work, it’s a very strong part. Later, we found out it was a male part. And in some other parts, but it was like, or another part where she said her boss saw her, you know, her eyes were like, lasers when she was upset, you know, and, and she’s a very cute person. But you know, you wouldn’t think that. And at first I was thinking, like, at first you thought it was wrong. But then when she thought about it, and we’re working this way, she’s like, she starts laughing. She goes, yeah, that’s true. Actually, I know, that’s totally true. So it was really fun. Actually, people really can have fun with us. But not, it’s not for everyone, like I say, so it’s you got to see, if you really want to get to know yourself on a deeper level, and apply it to being more productive or effective, or Julie, really about more, being more happy, I think, because I feel if you’re in your passion, if you’re not in your passion, the problem with employers hiring me is I’m gonna get the person to go where they go, I don’t I don’t tell them where to go, they go where they right. And it may, you know, they’re truly not satisfied, you know, either they’re going to leave. So it’s like if, you know, if you leave in your company, or you believe in yourself, and you want to put your top guy in there, that’s good, but they’re gonna find themselves wherever that is.
Heather Pearce Campbell 43:56
Well, and truthfully, the companies that are doing it, right, should support that. Like if this person is not for us, it’s better that we all learn this right? And vice versa. So yeah.
David Schultz 44:09
I mean, I’ve worked with some pretty high company, top companies, and they have that belief like they want to go logo, you know, like their partners and stuff. And they don’t know they’re okay with it, because they want them, you know, they want them present. They want them productive, they want them happy. They don’t want to bring down the mood of the whole place, you know?
Heather Pearce Campbell 44:26
Totally, totally. There’s a couple of things that come to mind for me there. I loved what you said about not seeing things as like negative or positive. And I think that’s important because we have so many self labels, right? We can right and wrong, positive negative, right. And it reminds me I don’t know if you’re familiar with the work of Dr. John Demartini. He’s actually another guy I’ve had on the podcast, but he he does a process that I love. It’s different but the the out outcome, the goal really sounds the same, which is to achieve this greater level of balance within the whole, so that for people who are overly and you use the word like triggered, or like drawn towards something or repelled by something, right, having really strong judgment either way, like, oh, that’s and it can even be like in, in who we’re drawn to in life, like seeing this person, as somebody that belongs up on a pedestal or this person, you know, really is not up to much, blah, blah, blah, we’re labeling them or judging them in some way. And it’s really about recognizing, we have all of it in ourselves, it’s not good or bad, it’s about doing the work to remove those triggers. And the the either either being overly drawn or overly repelled by something so that we do feel more centered and this feeling of balance in our thoughts or judgments or opinions, you you know, our parts, but I love that because I think that if people can stop judging themselves so harshly, they, you know, they have an opportunity to, to do this work, probably faster and earlier on their journey.
David Schultz 46:19
Yeah, and I think that is a part that’s judging them harshly and, and usually, we also can internalize negative outside energy to what’s called mirror neurons. So we can bring in, you know, often when we are being self critical or other critical. I don’t think we’re born that way. I think we’ve learned we internalize it. So you know, whatever you bring in that isn’t originally from you can also take out if you know how to do it.
Heather Pearce Campbell 46:44
And I love that you mentioned that because the other question that I had is, do you ever Are there parts that people abandon remove process their way out of right? Because they don’t belong to them.
David Schultz 46:57
You can’t get rid of your parts, because the parts of you, like I say, there are no bad parts. You can separate negative outside energy you internalize from other situations, maybe when you’re bullied when you’re little or you know.
Heather Pearce Campbell 47:12
Right? And that’s what I’m thinking of. Yeah, it’s almost kind of, and I know this is a different topic probably would spiral listen to a totally different conversation. But even like, genetics, yeah, right. Epigenetic type stuff, beings that through childhood, whether it’s emotionally intuitively, sometimes I think, just through physical energy, we inherit things from people that are not our own, like, does that stuff come up? where somebody’s able to recognize, like, Oh, that’s not mine. That’s not mine to carry any longer?
David Schultz 47:47
Absolutely, absolutely. You know, I think I showed you a clip of a guy that, you know, this real critical part that’s telling me he’s not so, so hot, he’s not so great as he thinks he has, you know, and you know, and then also, when he got the image, it was this homeless person in Seattle.
Heather Pearce Campbell 48:07
Thank you, Seattle.
David Schultz 48:08
Used to give them I used to give him a hard time when he was walking home saying you’re not so great as you think you’re you know, you know, he was like, or living in a truck or something. And every, when you got the image, you look just like that guy. So you knew that’s where that energy came from. And, and I have a pretty simple test to see if they it is from outside, I checked, there’s a lot more to it. I mean, sometimes they’re internalized into one of your parts. Sometimes they’re, they’re just what I call a free float or in yourself system. But my litmus test is just a check with the part or the entity and see is it from them originally or from outside, and then the opposite, I check with them if it feels like inside or out. But anyway, there’s a lot of things that that’s not so common, but I do a little bit of that. I mean, when it comes up, I work with it. But that’s just more on the exception, but it does happen a little bit. I’ve developed a lot of this, you know, over, you know, 20 years. So I’ve evolved even that part that’s a part of evolved most of the last five or seven years. But it’s it is fascinating. I mean, the main thing is connecting to core to get them the park grounded within its, you know, because when you’re grounded, then you can ground your part. And then you also learn how to ground that fire when it’s getting triggered. So when you’re getting triggered in a certain way, you know, what part of you it is that’s being triggered and you know how to comfort or get that part into a safe play. So it calms down and then you calm down, then you feel better. So when you’re at work, and let’s say something’s you’re feeling reactive, you know what part of you it is, you know, where that part would like to be, and so forth. So you use imagery a lot to get that part in the right space, and then when it comes down. It’s very exactly exact, specific incidents on general. Usually people use breathing techniques and all those things, but their death just suppresses things. It doesn’t go to the root and solve them in.
Heather Pearce Campbell 50:01
Right, no getting to the root cause, I mean, that’s so fascinating, because I think what I’m hearing you say is like people leave this experience, literally having a better understanding of themselves. And that’s not always the case.
David Schultz 50:18
Not just a better understanding, but also knowing how to work with themselves in a way, so that they’re feeling more grounded and more, you know, I had one person, for example, you can separate apart from apart, it’s like fractals worlds within worlds. So I had one client that had this part that was very cautious. And his ambitious part, Jack was UPS named the part name itself is, you know, it’s very funny, where you just kind of use like, a little narcissistic, he’s a little ambitious, he’s like, if I got to work 20 hours a day to get there, I’m gonna work 20 hours a day to get there. And all this kind of that was Jack, you know, and he was tired of these other parts are holding him back, like the cautious part and all this and he wanted to be more productive. So then what we did is, you know, we worked with the party was polarized with the cautious part that was being overly cautious, and it was just holding jack back, right. And that part originally started out, I forget what age, who’s a bit timid and shy and all that. And it’s like when he was like 14, or something. And then when we separate it out, well, it was nervous to be at the big table with the big boys like Jack and the other players. So he was a little nervous to be there. So when we separated out the part of it that was nervous from the cautious part, underneath was a thoughtful part, which is older, actually, and we kind of freed it up. And then the next meeting, the next week, things totally shifted for him. Like he was like, he wasn’t blocking himself, he wasn’t even thinking as much it was more easy. Let another part. So we’re good at what they did, instead of holding them back. And he’s getting a lot more accomplished. And it was it wasn’t working as hard. That’s what he said, I have it in video. I’m gonna actually put it on my website. Eventually. I’m trying to edit it. Now.
Heather Pearce Campbell 51:57
That’s a great testimonial, right? Yeah.
David Schultz 52:01
That’s funny guy to do to boot. I really enjoy it. I mean, it is a lot of fun. For my clients, typically.
Heather Pearce Campbell 52:10
No, I can see that you enjoy it? Well, I want to be respectful of our time. I love this conversation. I think some people probably just had their minds blown and others are like, Whoa, this is very, you know, curious and interesting. And I want to learn more. For folks that would like to connect with you or learn more. Where do you show up online?
David Schultz 52:32
Let’s see, my website is called Mind Solutions with an S and then dot. And my assistant told me to say N-U, and I think he told me to say it a certain way so everyone knows so N like in Nancy, U like in Universe. So not the usual.com Someone told me that they want $100,000 for it or something. So I just took NU. So again, mine solutions.nu he did right to say it twice. And then see and then I’m also on LinkedIn, under Mind Solutions – Online Executive Coaching, and one-on-one, I generally work one-on-one.
David Schultz 53:11
I think you talked about once before. Thank you for your research.
Heather Pearce Campbell 53:11
Awesome. Well, we will be very happy to share those links and anything else you want us to share over at the show notes page. So folks hop over to legalwebsitewarrior.com/podcast find Dr. David Schultz is episode and you can connect with him there. David do you have and really quick, I had to look up that .NU domain name. It is the country code top level domain representing and I don’t know how you say this NIUE n-i-u-e, a tiny island nation located around 2400 kilometers northeast of New Zealand. There you go.
Heather Pearce Campbell 53:15
You’re so right. I obviously didn’t lodge that deep enough into my brain. I had to look it up again. But that’s fun. So I think you’ve got a gift for people that are listening. And we should say if you qualify, this can’t be for anybody that shows up to your door because it is a commitment and very generous of you to offer this.
David Schultz 54:11
Yeah. So basically, I’m going to offer like, I think I wrote a 75 minute session or
Heather Pearce Campbell 54:19
Let’s keep it at 75 I’m not going to volunteer for 90.
David Schultz 54:23
I just forgot what I wrote. But yes, so that you can have the experience he would have feels like but of course you know, the qualification is just that it fits your budget. That is something you’re serious about that I’m happy to have the experience.
Heather Pearce Campbell 54:37
Yeah, well I am super excited to share this episode out I can’t wait for folks who will have some new ideas around potential avenues for greater inner peace balance in their lives harmony in their work life. It is a never ending quest. It seems like some days so I think what were we going to call this episode Mind, the final frontier, in you called me a tricky, tricky, yes.
David Schultz 55:06
You call me that? Yes. I don’t know that I am that I do like sci fi admittance fantasy, but I like all kinds of stuff. But yes, I really feel like we’re just beginning on the mind, I really don’t know what’s going on. I’m trying to figure out like, where are these parts hanging out between? We’re not talking to him, What are they up to? And it’s likely like when you just wake up right before the alarm goes off like, Well, part of us paying attention to that. That’s nice.
Heather Pearce Campbell 55:33
Oh, I love that. I love that. Well, what final can either be a thought or a takeaway, like an action step that people can go do? What would you like to leave people with?
David Schultz 55:44
Well, if you’re just curious about who you are, and how things operate within you, I would say that alone is enough reason to check things out. Because it is unbelievable. And just to get to know who the players are, and just to deconstruct self, besides all the things that we can do with that, it’s just fascinating. It’s like getting checked for your like what your ancestry is, and learning all that it’s the same thing. This is another thing, but it’s like that.
Heather Pearce Campbell 56:15
Totally. And you have to live with this all the rest of your life, so why not get to know it a little better, right?
David Schultz 56:22
Nope. So a lot and then also helps you understand other people better.
Heather Pearce Campbell 56:26
It’s huge. Thank you, David, so grateful to have you here today.
David Schultz 56:31
Thank you, Heather. Nice to be here.
GGGB Outro 56:34
Thank you for joining us today on the Guts, Grit and Great Business® podcast. We hope that we’ve added a little fuel to your tank, some coffee to your cup and pep in your step to keep you moving forward in your own great adventures. For key takeaways, links to any resources mentioned in today’s show and more, see the show notes which can be found at www.legalwebsitewarrior.com/podcast. Be sure to subscribe to the podcast and if you enjoyed today’s conversation, please give us some stars and a review on Apple podcasts, Spotify or wherever you get your podcast so others will find us too. Keep up the great work you are doing in the world and we’ll see you next week.