August 30th, 2022
The Power of Assessment Marketing
With Jane Deuber, a sought-after business strategist, two-time best-selling author, international speaker, seven-time successful entrepreneur, and a respected mentor to mission-driven entrepreneurs around the world. Over the past 35 years, Jane has led businesses into the multi-million dollar mark while helping other entrepreneurs succeed as well. She started her first business in 1987 with only $5000 so she knows what it takes to generate revenue and scale businesses. Since then, Jane and her husband have started and grown 6 additional businesses, each one dedicated to helping entrepreneurs create profitable businesses that impact lasting change and provide them with the freedom they desire.
Through her software company, Magpai, Jane and her team help coaches, consultants and authors attract qualified leads, create meaningful connections, and enroll ideal clients by harnessing the power of assessment marketing. Her other company, Global Experts Accelerator, has been helping entrepreneurs scale their success through online courses, certification programs and corporate licensing for over 13 years.
Join us for our conversation as Jane shares her secrets to growing numerous businesses, advice on how she overcame the rough spots she encountered throughout her entrepreneurial journey, and her insights on the need to re-engineer the way expert entrepreneurs market and sell their products and services. You will also hear some tips from Jane on how to use online assessments to attract quality leads, create meaningful connections, and close more ideal clients.
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Biggest takeaways (or quotes) you don’t want to miss:
- “The only reason that we’re willing to step out and take a risk is because there’s a sense of strength and assurance.”
- What’s the greatest gift we can give to people?
- “If you want a scalable business, you have to build it.”
- What’s the most important skill that fuels the engine of your business?
- “If we can make sales sacred and see it as a sacred act, it makes the rest of building your business so much easier.”
“The only way to serve people at the highest level is by understanding who they are.”-Jane Deuber
Check out these highlights:
- 07:39 Jane shares how she became interested in entrepreneurship and started her first business.
- 21:54 The difference between a survey and assessment.
- 23:47 Jane shares some examples of how her company’s clients use assessments.
- 41:31 What Jane wished she knew earlier in her journey.
- 50:16 Jane’s final tip.
How to get in touch with Jane:
On social media:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/janedeuber | https://www.linkedin.com/company/magpai/
Learn more about Jane, by visiting her websites https://www.magpai.com/ and https://www.globalexpertsaccelerator.com/.
Special offer for listeners: You can get an extended 30-day free trial of the assessment software here.
Imperfect Show Notes
We are happy to offer these imperfect show notes to make this podcast more accessible to those who are hearing impaired or those who prefer reading over listening. While we would love to offer more polished show notes, we are currently offering an automated transcription (which likely includes errors, but hopefully will still deliver great value), below.
GGGB Intro 00:00
Coming up today on Guts, Grit and Great Business™…
Jane Deuber 00:04
You know, even though I’ve been down this path, you know, seven times before, I’m still confronted by the same things that many of your listeners are confronted by. And you know, I’ve had some wobbly days and I’ve had like that, like, Oh, really I’m here again. And the only thing that gets me through those mornings where I’m feeling like whether it’s uninspired overwhelms, lack of passion. The only thing that gets me through it is for me to really put myself in the shoes of the person at the other end, and we have to have an unshakable belief in what it is that we’re offering.
GGGB Intro 00:52
The adventure of entrepreneurship and building a life and business you love, preferably at the same time is not for the faint of heart. That’s why Heather Pearce Campbell is bringing you a dose of guts, grit and great business stories that will inspire and motivate you to create what you want in your business and life. Welcome to the Guts, Grit and Great Business™ podcast where endurance is required. Now, here’s your host, The Legal Website Warrior®, Heather Pearce Campbell.
Heather Pearce Campbell 01:25
Alrighty, welcome. I am Heather Pearce Campbell, The Legal Website Warrior®. I’m an attorney and legal coach serving entrepreneurs throughout the US and the world. Welcome to another episode of Guts, Grit and Great Business™. We are going to have so much fun today. Welcome to our guest, Jane Deuber. Welcome, Jane.
Jane Deuber 01:47
Excited to be here. Heather, thanks for having me.
Heather Pearce Campbell 01:50
Oh, you’re welcome. This will be so fun. So Jane and I actually met in a three-day event that was like a connection, kind of mastermind type of event and just hit it off right away. I love Jane, I’m such a fan, we’ve not had enough of a chance to connect yet. And so this will be a great conversation where we get to dig into some of Jane’s experience and she can share some really tremendous gems with you. And if you are in the entrepreneurial space, this will be a super fun conversation for you. So for folks that don’t know Jane, Jane Deuber is a sought-after business strategist, best-selling author and seven-time successful entrepreneur. Through her software company, Magpai, Jane and her team helped coaches, consultants and authors attract qualified leads, create meaningful connections and enroll ideal clients by harnessing the power of assessment marketing. Her other company, Global Experts Accelerator has been helping entrepreneurs scale their success through online courses, certification programs in corporate licensing for over 13 years. Whether she is helping clients systematize their sales or leveraging their content online, Jane is committed to sharing her 37 years of business building success with mission driven entrepreneurs who are committed to making a difference. Jane, I love it. It just sounds like you have entrepreneurship like flowing through your blood.
Jane Deuber 03:21
It’s in my blood. I know. So like when you read that I think how I’ve done a lot and no wonder I’m a little tired, right?
Heather Pearce Campbell 03:30
You have done a lot of seven seven times successful entrepreneur, I know that you have a history of creating and building and selling companies.
Jane Deuber 03:40
Yeah, it’s interesting. I mean, whether you’re in the space, right, you’re supporting people on the legal side and the conceptualization side. But you know, all business really is finding a way to solve some people’s problems. And typically what would happen is, I would come up against a problem or a challenge in my own business, and I try to find a way to solve it. And then I would turn to my husband, who we’ve known for 37 years in business. It is now all of them with my husband. So those eight, seven businesses developed with my husband, and I just made it for an interesting dinner conversation. Quite frankly, it’s like, well, babe, I think we have another business. And so that’s how they all sort of evolved.
Heather Pearce Campbell 04:22
That’s amazing. I feel like you have a whole other business that you. I don’t know the range of businesses that you’ve created and sold, but you have a whole other business where you could just teach people how to be in business with a partner, right? That that really is a special kind of relationship that can endure both the regular strains on marital relationship as well as a work relationship. I truthfully don’t know many people who could do that and do it well.
Jane Deuber 04:52
Oh my gosh, that is a whole another podcast in business for a lot of books, but I do think it’s complicated it further . Heather, my son who’s 24, is now in the business. So it wasn’t incestuous enough. And now my son’s come in, and we’re building, relaunching our assessment software together and he’s known. So I don’t know, you know, for me, there’s nothing more empowering and more life changing and being an entrepreneur. And, you know, Mario and I have often joked and we sold the first business that started in 87. We sold it in 2000. And we teased that we sold the business and kept the marriage, if you know what I mean, to decide which one and so we kept the marriage and sold the business and then we just kept going, you know, there’s always another.
Heather Pearce Campbell 04:54
That’s hilarious. Yeah, my version of that is my first marriage and going through a remodel, we had purchased a house and I kept the house and lost the marriage. Yeah, really, really, I kept the end. That sounds bad, and not the way that I intended it. I kept the project because we had torn everything off this house. I mean, I literally was living in a place that didn’t have windows or doors, when my ex moved out on my, you know, we were just a few months in and I wanted to continue, I wanted to see this project to the end, and our relationship was not going to survive that. So I joke to everybody, like my best relationship advice is like get married and immediately do a remodel because you’ll know, if you can’t make it through the remodel, you are not gonna make it through all the other things coming your way.
Jane Deuber 06:40
Sounds like a reality TV show for us. It was…we actually gotten her in business before we got married. But that’s a whole another story. So yeah.
Heather Pearce Campbell 06:48
Oh my gosh, that’s so funny. Well, I would love to know a bit. I always ask people, where did your entrepreneurial roots begin? Were you just always this way? Did you have an experience that really like lit you on fire when it came to entrepreneurship?
Jane Deuber 07:04
I grew up in an entrepreneurial home. My dad was an entrepreneur. So when they first got married, you know, he was shooting squirrels and rabbits because they had no food.
Heather Pearce Campbell 07:16
Your dad was hanging out with my dad, really? My dad got into college and couldn’t afford the food plan. And so he would just go hunting in the woods. This was Rexburg, in Idaho.
Jane Deuber 07:32
Yeah, maybe they knew each other. My sense is my father was born before in years, but oh my gosh, but yeah, you know, so I grew up in a household where risk was rewarded. That was a big huge value, you know, the more you get yourself out there, the more kudos you got from dad, and then, you know, the first real business was dragging a little red wagon around the neighborhood selling vegetables from the garden. And I did an earring of business back in the 70s in high school. And I just love the idea of creating something that someone else wanted and being rewarded for that financially. And so it sort of morphed when I went and got my master’s in business. Because my undergraduate was worthless. I, my undergraduate, was in East Asian Studies and Chinese language. What do you do with that?
Heather Pearce Campbell 08:24
Yeah, if you’re not moving to China, and further developing that language, right? To really…
Jane Deuber 08:29
Right. I did live in Taiwan for a while. But the bottom line was, I knew I wanted to be an entrepreneur. And so yeah, I mean, I’m assuming that people that are listening, you know, when you raise your hand and dive in, it is the most challenging experience you’ll ever had as well as the most rewarding, right?
Heather Pearce Campbell 08:50
Yeah, well, I love that theme that you pointed out from your childhood that risk taking risks is what got rewarded in your household, right? I think the reality is when it comes to development of any kind, it’s such an important lesson to teach our children. Right, that that risk taking is the way that we grow, it is the way that we become successful. So I love that I love that that’s so clear in your mind.
Jane Deuber 09:21
Well, and I think also, if you think about it, the only reason that we’re willing to step out and take a risk is because there’s a sense of, of strength and a sense of assuredness because a person who has wobbly self esteem, you know, and I will say we can go down this path. I mean, there’s certainly been times when I feel wobbly, we’re just getting ready to launch an aid business. And so I’m always tested whenever we put ourselves out there. But you know, there has to be a strong sense of okay, I have something of worth, that someone else is needing, and they’re willing to invest in that and, you know, so there it’s it’s that personal journey of Finding our own self worth, and then putting it out there and saying, Hey, is this a value to you? You want to be in? Do you want to go on this path with me and allow me to serve you at the highest level? And so, yeah, it’s just sacred, you know, we’re in now in the realm of sales and sales conversion. And in this digital era, Hi, there, it just feels like, you know, it’s gotten so impersonal in the digital world. And so part of what we’re trying to do there is to really develop a meaningful exchange between two people, even though it’s through email or something, you know, to that extent, and that’s business needs to be up level to the level of sacred, that’s how we’re all gonna survive and thrive really, right?
Heather Pearce Campbell 10:46
Well, you make such an important point, people, people are tired of the gimmicks and all this stuff that’s impersonal. That’s not really for them, right? There’s just so much noise and competition in the marketplace for attention. Right. And when we are able to create that personal connection, personal touch, personal acknowledgement, like whatever and the mechanism, and you know, there have been other people on the podcasts that teach about exactly how to do that, like, using chatbots, or using video strategy, or whatever it is. But I think it does really need to reflect on the business itself. How do you enjoy connecting with your people? How do you best come across in a way that is personal, that does add that really, really sacred opportunity to connect in a way that you don’t otherwise have? And that’s what people respond to?
Jane Deuber 11:43
Yeah, I mean, I see you do this together in your own work, really, you know, it’s if we have to take the spotlight off of ourselves and shine it on the other person, I think that’s really, you know, kind of the evolution of the tool that we’re now launching, it’s, it’s really about, instead of it being a guru centric marketing strategy, which is kind of what it’s been, it’s like, download this video hop on my webinar, it’s really actually giving people the gift of awareness. And that’s where I get passionate about it. Because that’s, you know, with people, if we all have this common need a core need to feel seen, heard and understood. But if communication is one way, as a marketer, as a business owner, we can’t create the connection that we’re looking for. So that’s why I’m, I’m passionate about what we’re doing now.
Heather Pearce Campbell 12:31
Well, I love it. And I’m hoping that you’ll share with us a little bit about because I know you said you’re on the verge of launching an eighth business, you’re in the middle of all the launch stuff, busy, busy, lots of work. Tell us a little bit about what it is that you’re launching.
Jane Deuber 12:45
So the tool came about. So Magpi is the name of the company. So read rework, you know, a year ago, you and I were just talking about our kids, before we just jumped on, I have, I have my son who’s 24, going on 25. And he came to his dad and I about a year ago, and this is a software that has been out in the world for four and a half years. So it’s been proven, but we didn’t, you know, geez, I’m 62 have we’ve done this quite a bit. And so I was kind of, you know, taking it easy and didn’t, didn’t push so hard. The business was growing on its own. And then intellects came and said, you know, mom, dad, you guys, this is a powerful tool, I want to come in and help you. So this is sort of the next evolution of a business that’s been in existence. And it’s an assessment. So we work with thought leaders to help them create what’s called a lead scoring assessment. So the individual on the other end, they get to go through a process of seeing where they are in their path one, meaning I haven’t addressed this at all 10, meaning I’ve nailed it. And in the privacy of their own home or office, they get to go and get really honest about where they’re knocking it out of the park, where they’re strong. And what are those pieces that are missing? Where they haven’t really given time and attention. And for me, having taught sales now for almost three decades, it’s the greatest gift we can give a person in their own, in their own time, in their own way, to get really clear about what are those missing pieces that are keeping them from the thing that they really want. And so that’s what an assessment does. So we put the assessment in the hands of individuals and allow them to give that gift to their potential clients.
Heather Pearce Campbell 14:28
Well, and I think for anybody listening, you know, we all know the experience of going through a quiz or an assessment or you know, something, whether it’s a personality test or something else that gives us feedback that really is designed to just help us better understand ourselves, right? Whether it’s strengths, weaknesses, areas to work on, etcetera, people love it. And I’m sure there is a lot that goes into actually making those cessful, right, because I think people have also had the experience of being sent something or coming to somebody’s calendar, and you have to go through a vetting through some kind of quiz or assessment and have those, like, have a major disconnect where you go through that, and you’re like, oh, this doesn’t even apply to me or whatever. Right? I’d be really curious, based on your knowledge of what makes an assessment really good and effective. You know, is it a hard thing for people to accomplish?
Jane Deuber 15:28
It’s so funny that you’re asking that because we had a whole conversation as a team. So you know, because we’ve been doing this for almost five years now. It doesn’t matter what niche you’re in. So let’s just imagine I’ll throw some out there. Health and wellness is a niche, parenting is a niche, you know, business growth, leadership, even the legal world right now, having a person having dotted all the i’s and cross all the t’s for their business. So what we found is that there are a certain number of niches, I think we’ve nailed down 12, we’re actually when a person comes into the software, they can pick an assessment template. So we’ve pretty much made it a no brainer, we know depending on the niche that you’re in what needs to be measured. And so it’s literally like we’ve had clients have their assessment up and running in 45 minutes. I mean we’ve made it as simple as possible by using templates. Now, of course, each business has its own, you know, personality and style. And so obviously, the templates can be changed. But I wanted to lower the barrier and allow people to play with it, because the intimacy that’s created how they are and I think your world, we can use that. And in the conversation of business, but the intimacy that can be created, especially if you take something in the world of personal wealth, communication, you know, relationship, to allow someone to get a real read on where they are, it’s, it’s a gift to them, and then it opens the door for communication, one of our intentions is to help people create those meaningful connections. And so for you to be able to in your inbox, have someone take one of your assessments and in the inbox, you get to see into their world, and you get to respond in a genuine, loving, caring way that allows them to feel seen, and that sparks a conversation. So, I mean, whether you’re in this world, I mean, I’m curious about what you think, but for us, our tendency is not the size of the list. It’s the quality of connection you have with the people on the other end of the email.
Heather Pearce Campbell 17:36
Yeah, so so true. And for anybody that, you know, hasn’t experienced that. So for me, the irony is that COVID hit, and COVID was the first year my daughter was two when COVID hit. So I’d been really, really busy with little people in my house and balancing business and had finally gotten childcare in place for her, which was a little bit of a battle here in Seattle. And then, of course, COVID hit and we lost it all. But it, ironically, was the first year I was so dedicated to getting my clients online and protected. It was like, listen, folks, it’s now or never. And so that year, I showed up religiously, like I could see COVID coming into February, 3 of March, I sent out an email to my list that said, this is what COVID will mean for your business. And I listed a whole bunch of things that people should be doing in order to prepare. And then I thought I just wrote a weekly newsletter every week, and I did my Ask Me Anything live every monday. Yeah, COVID. Like you got questions show up. I’m here to serve. And it was a really good and powerful experiment in my business, because I had not done that before. And just those two simple things a couple hours a week, if I missed a week, so like whether it was holiday or something else, I would get people reaching out and saying, Hey, are you okay? We didn’t hear from you. Yes. And that was the first time I’d ever had that. And I thought, Oh, my heavens, people are opening this. They are engaging with it, they are paying attention. But it took that level of commitment from me to start to monitor the impact. And that’s that kind of circular effect back into my business. And it was really powerful.
Jane Deuber 19:31
Well, I think what you did, Heather, I mean, I think you were pretty conscious about it, but it’s what everybody listening to this podcast needs to think about is how do you build trust? How do you create that environment where people are able to go to that place of awareness and truthfulness? And, you know, it’s not always easy, right? Especially in the legal realm because people are really being honest about where they’re exposed. And when I talked about this, there’s the most entrepreneurs, I don’t know if you have a statistic, but I’m going to just guess that 80% are exposed, whether it’s intellectual property, not having the right contracts, I mean, their entity not set up properly. And so for us, you know, to have that for you to have the conversation where they can go and be like, Oh, crap, don’t have this in place, don’t have this in place don’t have this in place, then they can come to the conversation with you, where it kind of like, you know, it’s already there, you already see it. So let’s just dial right in. And they’re really super meaningful conversations. Because it’s all in black and white, we see where you’re on track and where you’re not. Let’s just talk about how to really hone in and serve. And so yeah, I mean, I just love it, it shortens the conversation. You can go deeper, you can go there more quickly, which I think is a powerful way if we’re looking to serve our clients.
Heather Pearce Campbell 20:54
Well, it’s true. And I feel like every business should be looking at whether it’s an assessment or something like this, I think the question for me always is, how do I create efficiencies in my work, and in my business, and so much of that from a legal perspective early on as information exchange? In the traditional legal world, right? You’d be getting on like the phone calls and doing all this intake. And, like, I just can’t even conceive of that, like, I have a program that I built. And every single project that I do within that program kicks off with a questionnaire, like why would I not have a client take five minutes, and fill out a questionnaire and get me the information that it would take me an hour over the phone to collect?
Jane Deuber 21:43
Absolutely. Well, actually, let’s do this. Let’s dive into the difference between a survey quiz assessment, there’s actually a lot of misunderstanding. Totally. Yes. So if you think about a survey it is more of an open ended questionnaire. So it’s asking questions, and what I’ve always said is, why is there a place for surveys, it is not at all the same kind of tools and assessment, because with a survey, I’m asking open ended questions. Now what’s gonna happen when I ask an open ended question is number one, you’re gonna give me data that I can’t aggregate, it’s sometimes it’s long sentences and paragraphs in some cases. So for me to review it in aggregate, it’s impossible. The second thing that happens, Heather, and I think you’ll get this, if I asked you an open ended question, like what’s been holding you back, you’re going to tell the same story you’ve always told yourself, right, so the the survey when we have a survey that we’re asking other people open ended questions, we’re not providing them with any kind of new awareness, they’re going to tell us the same story. So that’s where assessments hold a different place in the sales conversation, because not only is it giving you some insight, numerically, you can see exactly where people are. It’s also taking them to a place of awareness. So just an open ended questionnaire it doesn’t do. So yeah, I have to say I’m on my little bandwagon, that every single entrepreneur needs some sort of web presence. They need some sort of CRM, or you’re holding all your data, you need some sort of calendar link so that you can hop on calls, and you need an assessment. Because if you don’t have an assessment, you’re missing that opportunity to really serve people and help them go to that place of awareness and then facilitate the conversation. So…
Heather Pearce Campbell 23:26
Yeah, absolutely. Well, and I’d love to hear some examples of ways because I’m sure you serve clients in a variety of areas, expertise, etc, I’d love to hear some examples of how your clients are using these.
Jane Deuber 23:41
I mean, so this happens every single day. I mean, there’s everything from you and Gibson is a perfect example. I’d like to share her story because she was in the early stages of just finding clients. Her business model is private coaching, which is probably a lot of people listening. And so she came into our world, we created the quiz, or excuse me, the assessment for her to have in her marketing. And she came to a training Heather and she literally, it was a training that I did in 20 minutes. It’s housed in our back office of how to conduct a one on one sales conversation using the assessment results. So she took a leap of faith . I love courage, right? She took a leap of faith. She had been paid for two different sales training programs. So I think she said it was a total of about 15,000 between those two programs. She got off the call and she said I’m just gonna throw those out. It is too complicated, too much scripting. It just didn’t feel right for her and she just simply had the conversation around the assessment results. And I think it was 45 minutes after the training she dove right in close to that client. She’s closed 90% of her clients since then. And it’s shaved off about 20 minutes from the total conversation and now her story is that it’s more meaningful. It’s So much deeper than it was in some, you know, I think what’s happening is people are teaching sales that was, you know, used decades ago. And people smell that a mile away. But instead of just having a conversation about what their results are that they actually score themselves on the assessment, it takes them to a deeper place, it makes the sales process we can take someone who hates sales, or sometimes they’ll say allergic to sales, and it actually becomes a really sacred exchange. And so that’s on that end. And then there’s, you know, Christine Closer, and if you know, she’s in the…
Heather Pearce Campbell 25:38
Recognize the name, yes, I don’t know that I know her directly. Yes.
Jane Deuber 25:42
So she’s in the middle of her book, breakthrough quest that she does annually, we’ve always used the assessment and has about, you know, over 1000 people having taken the assessment, and just imagine, you know, she understands where everybody is, she can tweak her content, for her quest was just kind of like a five days challenge to serve the needs for sales team can see who, who really is ready to go to the next level who’s willing to invest and so no longer you know, is she chasing down leads that really are not her highly qualified leads, if you get it. So ever, it’s just you know, whether it’s a bigger business and you have a sales team, or you’re a one on one, and you’re wanting to find those ideal clients that then will coach with you privately. If there’s a place for the assessment, no matter which end of the spectrum you’re on?
Heather Pearce Campbell 26:36
Well, and I’m hearing you say that it’s also a really powerful sales tool in and of itself, right to support a client intake process, or to lead to additional client intake. And I think part of it if I were to guess is the difference between somebody showing up to let’s say, it’s a personal coaching business, where there is not a structure around or a framework around how you approach it, right? There’s something really powerful about putting things inside of a structure and methodology, even just organizing the concepts. Yeah, are people so much more confident in working with you and knowing there’s a path?
Jane Deuber 27:20
Right? Well, there’s this interesting thing that was a phenomenon that we didn’t really understand until we started to do some research on the assessment, we call it assumed genius. So when a person is going through, and they’re scoring themselves on a scale of one to 10, one, meaning I haven’t really addressed this 10, meaning I’ve mastered this, what happens is, is something subliminally happens, whether and that is that if I score myself, lo, I assume that you can support me in it, that you can help me fix that. And so that is, you know, I think about what is the most important skill, to think about your listeners, I’ve done this app. So we’re getting ready for the eighth business launch. We bootstrapped every single business because I was able to quickly move into revenue generation. There’s not one skill that anybody listening to this podcast needs to master more than the ability to create revenue on demand, like, you know, this, right, right, have to have a system for that. So anyway, we teach what’s called the ultimate client acquisition system, it’s the four steps, you can plug the assessment into each of those four steps to make it more meaningful, more viable for the other person at the other end. And so, yeah, I mean, I think one of the challenges when people let’s say, I’m a coach, and I’m in the health and wellness space, if I’m on a call, one of the big challenges for most people is to craft the picture of what would be the impact of us working together. Right. And for most people, that’s a little challenging, but we teach this phrase, basically, of saying, if you could come back to the same assessment, in three to six months, score yourself at a nine or a 10. How would that impact your life and your relationships and your health? In your world? It’s the business, right? Because for you, Heather, those places that a client would be scoring low. That’s just not an inconvenience, that’s a serious risk. Right? And so for you to be able without, you know, in the old days of sales, it was more there was a little more manipulation, sometimes that would be brought into the conversation. And that’s just not necessary. When a person’s already gone to that place of awareness. It’s pretty clear where they’re at risk. It’s pretty clear what the consequences are so…
Heather Pearce Campbell 29:33
Yeah, yeah. And it’s, I don’t have the kind of assessment that you’re talking about. But the first step in a segment of my legal services is, and I just call it a business risk assessment and legal roadmap Strategy Session. It’s a paid service, but we do a deep dive into their business. I have a really detailed questionnaire that helps me conduct the assessment and then we meet and It literally the assessment ties directly to Sir, here’s where we’re gonna fix it. That’s right. Here’s the map. Here’s how we fix it. Here’s what you need. Here’s how we would prioritize this. Right. And it’s interesting, because it’s not an inexpensive service. And I’ve had people go through it, and the clarity they have at the end, I had one guy telling me, I would have paid you three times the amount you charged for this, because of how I feel now about my business. Yeah, it was like, isn’t that really the takeaway of having some tool, whatever it isn’t your business that helps your clients achieve that level of clarity and confidence. On the other side?
Jane Deuber 30:42
Yeah. Well, you took him to a place of getting honest. Right? And whether it’s health and wellness, relationship, parenting, it doesn’t really matter, you know, for us to be able to sit with honesty and the truth of okay, these are these pieces that are keeping me from whatever it is that I want. I mean, for me, that’s the greatest gift we can give people. So right, awesome.
Heather Pearce Campbell 31:08
Well, and even, I think honesty is a piece of it. I think you’ve said the other word that comes to mind. For me, awareness is another piece of it, because a lot of people just don’t know how to look at a problem. Right? And so they need experts to say, here’s how you should look at this problem. And until they have a framework, or even a multiple choice question of like, Here are the options. Some people don’t know what the shift is that they should be making in perspective. And so I think that’s another way that that tool can really help.
Jane Deuber 31:41
Yeah, I mean, one of the invitations I’ll have for your listeners is to kind of experience it firsthand, but it is what we call the sales acceleration quiz. And what happens is, in going through and scoring oneself on a zero to 10 basis, it’s pretty obvious where those missing pieces are. And so there’s that, that sense of awareness that they didn’t have before because you don’t know what you can’t fix, what you don’t know is the problem. And that’s really where the whole journey begins, which is probably exactly what you do with your clients.
Heather Pearce Campbell 32:15
Yeah, absolutely. Well, and I want to revisit, I mean, we’ve talked a little bit about the fact that you are a serial entrepreneur, right. And I love that you made the point already about one of your great strengths being creating a very fast path for revenue generation. Yeah, you know, I’d love to hear a couple of points because not everybody could do this successfully, right? Create one business successfully, let alone seven or eight. I’d love to hear what you think makes you a great entrepreneur. And you are, and where, where were some kind of learning points or challenges along the way, if you’re willing to share a couple of those?
Jane Deuber 33:00
Yeah, I mean, it’s so interesting, because this is the eighth time. So we’re taking a business that existed and we’ve sort of revamped it. It’s new software, it’s a new brand. So we’re considering it a launch. But, you know, even though I’ve been down this path, whether you know, seven times before, I’m still confronted by the same things that many of your listeners are confronted by, and, you know, I’ve had some wobbly days, and I’ve had like that, like, Oh, really, I’m here again. And, and we and the only thing, the only thing that gets me through those mornings, where I’m feeling like whether it’s uninspired, overwhelmed, lack of, of passion, the only thing that gets me through it is for me to really put myself in, in the shoes of the person at the other end. And we have to have an unshakable belief in what it is that we’re offering. And what’s so interesting, because yeah, I have had you mentioned earlier No, I had a mastermind at a business growth mastermind and just kind of where this tool came about was, it was 24k. For six months experience, you come in, we roll up our sleeves, we get your business up and running and, and it’s profitable, and we were kind of up against a wall two weeks ago, and not a lot of response from the list. You know, we were doing some of the normal marketing stuff, and just nothing was happening. It was crickets chirping. And then I tell the story, Jackie, who was my salesperson, comes to me in tears, you know, just really worried that we weren’t going to be able to meet the numbers. And that’s how the tool came about. I was like, Well, let’s not worry about not wanting to do a complicated launch. I don’t want to spend a lot of money. Like right now, marketing can be so complicated for people. And what we know is that your ideal clients are in your list, no matter How big, whether it’s 40 or 40,000, those people have already raised their hands. So for me, it was more putting that tool to work in the business back then, to basically just say, tell us where you are, tell us what you need, and let us surround you with the support that we need. And so it was, it’s actually a simplification of what I think our industry is complicated, you know, is if you know who’s at the other end of the email, and you know, where they’re on track and what they’re missing, you can serve them at the highest level, create those meaningful connections, and the sales part is pretty easy.
Heather Pearce Campbell 35:38
Oh, I love that. It’s such a great example about the power of really taking the time to get to know who you’re talking to, right and where they’re at on their path. For me, I know that I’ve got multiple levels of clients, meaning that I have some folks that are just starting out, they care a lot about their business, but they’re not, you know, yet generating the amount of income they really want to be, etcetera. A lot of those folks come from a previous career, they’ve got experience that has informed them to the point that they’re like, look, I want to take care of business from the start. Right? So I have some of those. And then I’ve got people that are the catalysts, right, which is why I launched a program called the Catalyst Club, that are yours in their fast action takers, and they generate a lot of revenue. And they’ve skipped over some of the traditional legal supports, they’ve, they’ve kind of hodgepodge things together, because they’re moving so quickly. But it’s not that they don’t care about their business, they now have proof of concept. They’re generating revenue. And now they’re like, Okay, we need to play catch up with our legal support and, you know, get some structure in place. I have to tell people repeatedly, like having a conversation of selling that type of client into a $25,000 package is no different than having a conversation with the other kind of client and selling them into a $300 consultation.
Jane Deuber 37:02
And that’s really, yeah, yeah, you nailed it. What I will say, is just as a homage to what you do have there, and why I’m so happy that you are here in this industry and carrying this torch for all of us. You know, you mentioned in my intro, that I’ve sold three businesses, I would have never been able to sell in any one of those businesses, had I not given those businesses the time and attention and investment to get legal, you know, to really make sure that we were doing it correctly. And so yeah, I don’t think there’s enough awareness out there of not just being an integrity, is keeping yourself out of jail for or eliminating the fines that will come your way. It’s also if you want a scalable business, you have to build it, right? Because the moment someone takes a look at your business to buy it, if you haven’t set it up properly, there is no conversation. Right?
Heather Pearce Campbell 38:04
Jane Deuber 38:05
No, thank you so much for what you do.
Heather Pearce Campbell 38:07
Oh, well, thank you. No, I love it. Like you, I’m just such a fan of entrepreneurship. I, you know, whoever made the quote, and I’m sure many people have said that entrepreneurship is like, the best path for personal development. Yeah, right. Now, we are limited to that back in the 80s. Right, exactly. So many people, once they get into entrepreneurship become really aware very quickly about the truths of that, that we are kept in our business growth. You know, our business growth is limited by our own ability to evolve and change and become the type of leader that will lead a business that can scale. So I’m curious if you’re willing to share some of your bumps and bruises along the way in your journey. Just a couple of highlights
Jane Deuber 38:57
There’s been so many. I mean, one funny story. This was the first business that my husband and we had 300 and some sales reps from all over the country selling our products. And they would come in for the big launch of our like, you know, got the bat of the ballgown kind of thing. The Tuxedo kind of an evening and the catalog to launch this new product line was supposed to arrive that afternoon and it didn’t. And so I was like, I gotta go. Like I said, I said to my husband, okay, this is just a little too much. I’m going to head up to the room. And so I went into the room Heather, and it was hot. So I opened up the door in the suite, and I went into the bathroom when I came out of the bathroom and my husband was looking over the balcony and he was wondering if I jumped. I was like, oh my god, it’s not that bad.
Heather Pearce Campbell 39:58
We’re not there yet.
Jane Deuber 40:00
Yeah, I mean, even if we were it’s not that big of a deal. But I think, you know, there’s been so many challenges of questioning whether you’re going to meet payroll, or, you know, having a launch not go as planned. And it’s just a matter of remembering why you’re in business and who you’re here to serve and putting it in perspective. And, yeah, I think sometimes I don’t remember the really hard times, because I’m always reframing it after it’s over.
Heather Pearce Campbell 40:27
Well, I mean, it’s one of the things right, some of our greatest lessons are through those challenging times. But if we are paying attention, that leads to some of our best times and our best growth, right, and our you know, repositioning or rethinking something that we’re doing in our business. So, yeah, I think it is the case that a lot of those kind of those things that initially give us a pit in our stomach can really inform how we evolve. So in hindsight, they are less painful.
Jane Deuber 40:57
Exactly. So just yeah, I mean, that’s my intent, my invitation for people is to just, you know, elevate the way that you’re doing business in in a sacred way, where it’s all about the person at the other end, it’s about serving at the highest level, and the only way to do that is to be able to really understand who they are, you know, and give them that space. So that’s the mission that I’m on this time around.
Heather Pearce Campbell 41:20
I love it. Is there anything that stands out to you as something that you wish you knew earlier on in your journey?
Jane Deuber 41:28
Oh, man, it was, yeah, this is the whole reason that I sold the first business and kept the marriage. I think what can happen is when our business is aligned with our passion, no one ever pulled me aside Heather in the beginning and said, Hey, you get to have a really fulfilling, amazing life, outside of business and a successful business. And I kind of really sacrificed so much that first time around, Alex was, Alex was three. And he had been on 40 flights. Before his six month birthday. I mean, the first six months of his life. So I just think, when Mario and I sold that first business, we made a promise to each other that we would never ever put the business first. And sometimes, honestly, you know, we’ve sold a number of our businesses, and I probably could have had a couple extra zeros on the end of the sale price. If I had sacrificed the way I did with the first business, but no, you know, my marriage, my life, my kids, my health. All of that is so important. And I’m willing, I just wrote a blog about it actually, this morning. It was, you know, sometimes you have to be willing to sacrifice conversion, to stay true to your heart and stay true to your spirit. Because there’s a lot of people out there that are attempting you and inviting you into a process that may not be aligned with who you are. And girlfriend, I will sacrifice conversion every time to be able to be strong in my own values and my own commitment to myself and my life.
Heather Pearce Campbell 43:07
That gave me goosebumps. The truth of that is just so important for people to understand. I’ve learned in my own business, how to pay attention. I teach on this, like red flag scenarios, red flag clients, yeah, right what to pay attention to, because I’ve had people show up and they were willing to pay me whatever it was that I was asking for a service. And I’ve learned in my own work that if somebody is not a clear, yes, early on in my process, there are no for me, yes, I don’t wait around for them to come back and slowly make up their mind because they’re just not going to be the type of client that I can serve. Well, I wrote to serve people well who are dragging their feet and having a hard time coming to the table. Like, it’s just really not for me.
Jane Deuber 43:58
Yeah. Oh my gosh, you and I could go on forever about this because I do think that you know, that whole intuitive hit that you get early on is that red flag that you mentioned, I also just say just because it’s in my mind, and I wrote the email to my group about it. I actually had someone who was basically giving me his take on how to design a webinar.
Heather Pearce Campbell 44:20
And do you love unsolicited advice?
Jane Deuber 44:26
I mean, Heather, one of the things he said is Jane, the more you teach, the less you’ll sell. And I said okay, wait, people are giving me 90 minutes. Yes, I’m gonna sell. Yes, I’d like, I think that there’s just this way that people look at the marketing process right now. And it’s all about the manipulation and the storytelling and…
Heather Pearce Campbell 44:52
NLP and the value stacking and blah, blah blah. I know I’ve ranted about this before and it gets so old.
Jane Deuber 44:59
Yeah, and so I think that’s, that’s where the, you know, I’ll sacrifice conversion for me and my values. And I think we just have to trust because the money comes, the revenue comes, the clients show up when you’re true to who you really are meant to be. And you don’t have to sell your soul and sell out and all that stuff. So obviously, you know, I met with the team this morning and said, Okay, we’re going to throw out this part of the strategy, we’re not going to do that, because it just doesn’t feel like our brand.
Heather Pearce Campbell 45:33
I totally get it. And I really think this is such an important takeaway for people that are early on, or even midway through their journey. I mean, you learned the value of achieving better balance in your life through that first business experience that you had, right? And it was like never again. And I love that you said business does not come first. And I think so many of us as entrepreneurs, we get it backwards, we think, Oh, business comes first. And if we create success here, then we’ll have all the success everywhere else. It reminds me of another conversation I had with Brad Martin, no six division. He’s like one of the original Infusionsoft people. Yeah, the takeaway, one of the takeaways in our conversation was he has what’s called a return document. And the return document, yes, is what is the role of the business in serving his life? What is the return to him individually? And I think it’s a great way to think about it. Where does our business fit in our life plan? Not how do we fit a life plan around our business? Right? We get it backwards so often, and it’s so interesting. Yeah, yes. And so he constantly encourages people to go visit what he calls the return to make sure they are building a business, in alignment with their values and where their business fits in their life and how it’s designed to serve their life. And it sounds like you did the same thing. You just had a different pathway for it. But I think…
Jane Deuber 47:04
It’s interesting, each one would serve a different intention, I will tell you this, this current business, really, I wanted to do the relaunch of it to serve my son. Give him a front row seat to what it feels like to be in that startup stage and know this kid, he graduated with an undergrad degree in entrepreneurism, but he’s gotten an MBA this last year, because he’s in the front row. And he’s watching. Okay, this is what it takes. And this is how hard it is. And also this is how fun it can be. But yeah, that’s I would say that’s, that’s the value that this particulars businesses serving for me personally, is I get to move my son in how to do this, you know, sometimes better than others, but how to get in the in the front row of the seat and just drive?
Heather Pearce Campbell 47:50
Yeah, well, what a beautiful mission, because I think any business that has done well serves all the parties involved, right, the creators and operators of the business employees of the business vendors of the business clients of the business, right, it should, it should be a positive for if it’s if it’s done right, for everybody involved. I just really believe that if you’re not creating a business like that, that has a win-win relationship for everybody, like you’re either in the wrong business, or you need to reevaluate your own business and how you’re approaching it.
Jane Deuber 48:25
Absolutely. Amen, sister.
Heather Pearce Campbell 48:28
Alright Jane, and I know I’m running you right up to the top of the hour, which I’m thrilled to do. I’ll keep you on here for as long as possible. But where do you like for people to connect with you?
Jane Deuber 48:38
Well, there’s two things that I would love since, of course, obviously, I’m going to send everybody to an assessment. sales accelerationquiz.com. I just, you know, my invitation, it takes less than four minutes to complete, it’ll help you get clear about not just the business fundamentals, like where are you on your path, it also gives you an opportunity to see in the sales and marketing side of your business, where are you on track? What are those missing pieces that are, you know, maybe eluding you and why you haven’t had the profits that you’re wanting. So the sales acceleration quiz is calm, and you can experience it. But I also wanted to give you guys an extension. So if you go to magpai.com, I know you’re gonna put the link.
Heather Pearce Campbell 49:23
I’ll share the links. And so if you’re listening, be sure to go to legalwebsitewarrior.com/podcast, we will have all these links in the show notes. Yeah.
Jane Deuber 49:31
So we’ll send you guys, we’ll do an extended 30-day free trial, gives you plenty of time to go in. You can use all the templates that are there. But I love it. Yeah, it’s literally so it’s a 30 day free trial, put it to work. See how powerful it is. Even if you have a really small list of what it feels like to literally have a crystal ball and understand who’s right for you, who’s highly qualified and how you can support them. So between those two things, I think that’ll give him a great…
Heather Pearce Campbell 50:00
Perfect! No, I love it, they can go play around. Jane, it was such a joy to connect with you here today. I really appreciate you coming and sharing your time. What final tip or takeaway would you like to leave people with?
Jane Deuber 50:16
Just to know that the single most important skill is this, the art of learning how to move people into the right product in that this is what fuels the engine of your business. And the best way to master that is to elevate it to a level where you’re really truly serving. So, you know, if we can make sales sacred, and see it as the sacred act that it is, it makes the rest of building your business so much easier.
Heather Pearce Campbell 50:44
Oh, I love it. Mic drop. Perfect. Jane, thank you. I really look forward to connecting again soon.
Jane Deuber 50:51
Absolutely. Thanks, Heather.
GGGB Outro 50:55
Thank you for joining us today on the Guts, Grit and Great Business™ podcast. We hope that we’ve added a little fuel to your tank, some coffee to your cup and pep in your step to keep you moving forward in your own great adventures. For key takeaways, links to any resources mentioned in today’s show and more, see the show notes which can be found at www.legalwebsitewarrior.com/podcast. Be sure to subscribe to the podcast and if you enjoyed today’s conversation, please give us some stars and a review on Apple podcasts, Spotify or wherever you get your podcast so others will find us too. Keep up the great work you are doing in the world and we’ll see you next week.