The Lazy Overachiever Mindset

With Naketa Ren Thigpen, the #1 Balance and Relationship Advisor in the world, who is on a mission to build stronger families that L.E.A.V.E new multi-generational imprints, witnessed from the ripples of love, empathy, adventure, victory, and edification they create from their self-actualized wholeness. In

Naketa’s work with her clients, she is activating power couples and potent humans who privately identify with witty tongue-in-cheek humor as the lazy overachievers. Although most of her clients are founders, entrepreneurs, or entrepreneurial centered organizations, the commonality is that they all honor the need to rest and recharge with room for relationship bliss just as much as the desire to dominate audacious milestones.

The intersection of work life balance, sustainable business, mental health, and fulfilling intimate relationships is where Naketa thrives at work and in real life. She’s marking her legacy of unbound brilliance, beauty, and balance with unapologetic insights on owning the right to be intentionally selfish by leveraging micro sabbaticals that empower you to work less and trust more.

In our conversation, Naketa shares insights into what it takes to create a work/life (and LOVE) balance, emphasizing the importance of mindfulness, breathwork, and boundaries for maintaining optimal mental and physical well-being. She also discusses the challenges faced by entrepreneurs, discussing the balance between work and personal life and addressing the relationship struggles that often accompany the entrepreneurial journey. Lastly, Naketa offers valuable thoughts on prioritizing relationships and achieving a harmonious balance in life, shedding light on practical strategies and thoughtful approaches for navigating the complexities of modern living.

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Takeaways & quotes you don’t want to miss from this episode:

  • How can you prioritize relationships and balance in life?
  • The body holds our trauma and purpose, and personal development is about bringing awareness and healing to these areas.
  • A breathing exercise you can do to slow down your nervous system and reset breathing patterns.
  • The importance of setting boundaries in personal and professional life, and how it can lead to a more balanced and fulfilling life.

“If you are Naketa and you’re being honest, and you really want to be in balance, you have to admit what you really want…”

-Naketa Ren Thigpen

Check out these highlights:

  • 16:30 Naketa shares her formula for balance.
  • 19:46 How do you begin to bring the boundaries closer when you feel so overextended?
  • 23:30 Why do we feel so drained?
  • 44:03 Naketa’s final thoughts to leave with the listeners…

How to get in touch with Naketa on Social Media:

You can also contact Naketa by visiting her website here.

Imperfect Show Notes

We are happy to offer these imperfect show notes to make this podcast more accessible to those who are hearing impaired or those who prefer reading over listening. While we would love to offer more polished show notes, we are currently offering an automated transcription (which likely includes errors, but hopefully will still deliver great value), below:

GGGB Intro  00:00

Here’s what you get on today’s episode of Guts, Grit and Great Business®…

Naketa Ren Thigpen  00:04

My realest self, my goal my innermost being as someone whose superpower is to edify others. I need my energy in order for me to wake up and be happy with myself. If Naketa and Naketa is all of you, if you are Naketa and you’re being honest, and you really want to be in balance, you have to admit what you really want.

GGGB Intro  00:27

The adventure of entrepreneurship and building a life and business you love, preferably at the same time is not for the faint of heart. That’s why Heather Pearce Campbell is bringing you a dose of guts, grit and great business stories that will inspire and motivate you to create what you want in your business and life. Welcome to the Guts, Grit and Great Business® podcast where endurance is required. Now, here’s your host, The Legal Website Warrior®, Heather Pearce Campbell.

Heather Pearce Campbell  00:55

Alrighty, welcome. I am Heather Pearce Campbell, The Legal Website Warrior®, and attorney and legal coach based in Seattle, Washington and serving online information entrepreneurs throughout the US and around the world. I am so excited about our guest today, you are going to love this topic because at least to me, it is a big, juicy topic that is so relevant to entrepreneurs and business owners and I think it is one of our biggest areas of struggle across the board. So you’re gonna want to stick around for today’s conversation. You are going to learn so much and you’re just going to love Naketa’s expertise. So for those of you that don’t know Naketa Ren Thigpen, she is on a mission to build stronger families that leave L-E-A-V-E new multigenerational imprints witnessed from the ripples of love, empathy, adventure, victory, and edification they create from their self actualized wholeness. Naketa is the #1 Balance and Relationship advisor in the world activating power couples and potent humans, who privately identify with witty tongue in cheek humor as the lazy overachievers. I love that part. Although most of our clients are founders, entrepreneurs or entrepreneurial centered organizations, the commonality is that they all honor the need to rest and recharge with the room for relationship bliss, just as much as the desire to dominate audacious milestones. The intersection of work-life balance, sustainable business, mental health and fulfilling intimate relationships is where Naketa thrives at work and in real life. She’s marketing her legacy of unbounded brilliance, beauty and balance with unapologetic insights on owning the right to be intentionally selfish, by leveraging micro sabbaticals that empower you to work less and trust more, oh, I just wanted to like stay in your bio and soak up everything that we just read. It’s amazing. It’s like you’ve identified really what I think are the biggest struggle areas. Yeah, or most entrepreneurs like this whole work-life balance, relationship-life balance, relationship work that like it all intersects, it’s all related. So many entrepreneurs, and business owners want to be thriving in all those areas. And I think it can really feel hard to actually be thriving in all those areas. 

Naketa Ren Thigpen  03:53

1,000% agree, I think part of the challenge, at least for me, my husband and I started this company in 2011. That puts us at preteen age where like it’s…

Heather Pearce Campbell  04:06

Totally, your children when you started right?

Naketa Ren Thigpen  04:08

We’re totally children. So now we’re teens and about to start acting out right? Like for all the parents that are listening that have those teens and 20s I’m like, Oh no, the rebelliousness is kicking in. But what we discovered as we started and you want to do everything by the book, and you follow every letter of whatever coach or advisor or mentor you have, when that’s the formula that worked for them, but it wasn’t necessarily customized for us. So there were lopsided areas like the seesaw, you used to be on in the playground when you were a kid when you went up and let’s say your business and your client portfolio, your relationship intimacy went down. Your friendship, intimacy went down. Your family was like, where are you? You never come to anything, or worse. You were trying to stay in that central space to hold everything so tight. And I don’t know if anybody does core work. But if you try to hold your ads in too long, it more than hurts. And it’s actually not giving you the effect that you think it is, by over holding something in a space that it shouldn’t be in that way. For me, it was being superhero warrior weekend mom, right. On the weekends, I was stuffing, every birthday party, every state party, all the things that I could possibly do. In between church in between community events, in between soup kitchens, like all the things all on the weekend, those little times that you have in the evening, when you really should be resting or sleeping or making love, or just sitting on the couch, wiggling your toes, but I’m holding my abs in tight trying to hold everything equal, when that wasn’t honest. And it wasn’t fair to me, because that was in resentment. I was doing it. But I was resenting being in those spaces. I didn’t want to be at your fifth wedding party. Like I went to the first three, no judgement, right? Like I did that. But I said yes, because we’ve been friends for 20 years, or we were colleagues for however long and it wasn’t enough to just send you the gift because you had to be there to prove that you’re still a friend, to prove to yourself that you can still do all the things. We’re honestly Heather, for me. And for many of the clients that are attracted over the years it was looking at, well, what do you want to do? Like, yes, I love you, I wish you the best on your third, fourth, fifth, on this eighth kid that you’re having whatever this extra thing is, and I do really try to be in person for all first whenever humanly possible. But after that, I can send you a gift girl, we can meet up for lunch one to one, when I’m actually in Seattle versus me up rooting my schedule to try to get there so I can be in the space. Meanwhile, I’m in my head writing, you know, a proposal, I’m in my head, filling out all the ingredients of all the things that I forgot to get at the supermarket. The last time I was there. I’m not truly fully present. Because I’m in resentment of me saying yes, when I should have just really held powerfully to my No, because my truth is I needed to be somewhere else for the person that I already am not the person you remember me being. So it all came selfishly, for me to be honest.

Heather Pearce Campbell  04:31

Realize such even in that one story you’ve illustrated, I think so many examples of how this stuff creeps in to our lives and kind of piles on and I know so many moms, I mean parents generally but moms in particular that carry this mental load, right of kind of keeping everything together all the plates in the air. I think it’s hard. On some days, I will speak for myself to even like allow myself to to wonder what do I really want? Right? I think part of it was having a discussion the other day with somebody about the the demands that our current education system places on parents to be involved in every aspect of their kids education, PTA sports, before school choir or activities after like, it never ends. And I think it’s really hard when it comes to boundaries around children. And that balance of knowing, like where do I get to say no, where do I get to say, That’s too much. And, you know, like the modern day life has done this to us. And I don’t think that it used to be that way. Like I think modern day humans we’ve piled on, we’ve piled on, we’ve piled on to the point where it actually feels hard to give yourself the space to actually say what do I want?

Naketa Ren Thigpen  08:52

Yeah, I agree. It gets hard and we rid ourselves with guilt and shame when we are actually not just when we’re not doing the thing, whatever those spinning plates are, right but when we’re actually saying you know what I need to be, I need to give myself permission to pause I need to take this moment to breathe and unless you are literally in crisis mode, which is usually the only time other people will also celebrate you taking a moment partially because they don’t want to deal with the consequences of you not taking that moment which is a whole different other podcasts right? But but for yourself you’re like I just want to take you know a couple of hours into the spa up can’t do that unless I invite five of my girlfriends because I haven’t been the best friend because I’ve been doing all the business or I’ve been doing all the parenting or I finally made space for my lover right like there’s always this constant switching out to switch in when a lot of it is looking at how am I my best self being selfish, Naketa and many of the clients Naketa serves and supports as lazy overachievers. We are truly right. Like we’re truly at our best when we’re honoring our need to rest without that guilt and the shame. And the way that you do that Brene Brown has said it very openly, the key to shame is vulnerability, I have to be honest with who I really am inside, you know, my college friends from 20-30 plus years, you know, see me one way they see the party girl, they see this, they see that so every time we connect what happens? Let’s go for drinks. Let’s do this. Let’s do that. Let’s stay up all night, Naketa. And 2023 does not stay up past nine o’clock. Listen, unless I’m already on one, right, like I was already on I’m away timezone difference, whatever. This is just when the stage wrapped up, or I’m with my lover. Those are the two reasons that I’m staying up past nine on a typical night unless one of the grandbabies is going up. But that’s a whole different. Unexpected unright thanks to my 27 year old. So there’s that. But that’s the expectation of those friends, which really has expired. So Naketa has to make a decision, is she going to try to live to that expectation of those friends who probably aren’t really living that way themselves when we’re not all in community with each other? Or is she going to say, you know what? My real self my goal my innermost being, as someone whose superpower is to edify others, I need my energy in order for me to wake up and be happy with myself to be excited about this day to not wake up in dread US and other day and start with all the negative Nancy, you know, monkey mind stuff that’s coming up. I didn’t get enough rest, bags under my eyes. Oh, no, I have to put concealer on it, right? Like that whole thing, all the things that happen. And now we’re busy running around and get makeup running around, right? Like we’re doing more of running around. So if Naketa and Naketa is all of you who are listening, if you are Naketa, and you’re being honest, and you really want to be in balance, you have to admit what you really want. Well, I really want to have my children and my children’s children and any other generation that I pray to God that I live to see into my hundreds, a long, high quality life, not a long suffering life. I want them to say, Gee, Bonnie was here for me. She listened to me, you could call her in the middle of almost anything, and she would slow down pause and make space for you. Even if it was two minutes, it was two minutes of presence. That’s my legacy. Like that’s what I want to leave not where my daughter who’s 22, my youngest when she was about eight years old, she said You are awesome. For everyone else, but me. And she said that because I raised someone who could advocate. I am also a black mother like,

Heather Pearce Campbell  12:51

Oops, what did I do? Right? 

Naketa Ren Thigpen  12:53

You know, I’m also a black mother, for those of you who are not watching this. So my first reaction was Who are you talking to? Like? What?

Heather Pearce Campbell  13:01

Um, again, yeah.

Naketa Ren Thigpen  13:04

Bring that back. Because I was myself and my husband. We were doing everything under the sun to give them what we didn’t have, you know, ballet and soccer and football. And it’s everything under the sun. And we were carpool parents. We were taking them everywhere under the sun. But to her beautifully, you know, word itself as she expounded on because I didn’t snap at her, let her have her moment. When she expanded on what was happening. She was like, Mom, you take me to all these places, but you’re not there. Back in the day, you’re answering your pager because I worked in emergency room. You’re running around and doing all the things you’re not with the other moms watching me during practice. You’re typing away. Remember the Palm Pilots back in the day. I know man.

Heather Pearce Campbell  13:46

Blackberries that like there’s a whole slew of them. Yes, a trio.

Naketa Ren Thigpen  13:53

Girl you like you feel me? I know. I know. Right? And that was her memory. Like you’re over there in the corner doing that the other parents are like, Yay, go, you know, get it and I’m typing away. Because I’m three jobs and a doctoral program and all the different layers. And my overachiever meter was like steaming, it was all the way to the right. And I justified it by saying, Well, I mean, I pay for you to go to all these things. I drove you to all these things. I take you to every sleepover that we vet that you want to go to like, we do all the things what more could you possibly want? And her eight year old cell she was about eight and a half was I want you I just want time with you. I want you to slow down and be with me. So the way that I responded as all ambitious women who are ridiculous response is I said, Okay, I hear you. And that sounded like those last three things she had been asking me to put her in, because that was my way of giving. I just needed a little bit of a buffer to really hear. I listened but I didn’t hear hear what she said. And it took me six months or so to really look at okay, Naketa, what are you doing? She said, I want more of you and you put her in more stuff, you gave her more stuff. That’s not literally creating the child that you want to create as the youngest as the only girl in your family outside of you. That’s not really what you want. And I started to have conversations with other individuals, other potent humans who were dope and amazing. And our portfolios could rival yours and mine, like with a blink of an eye, like they were beautiful. And they were feeling just exhausted as I was. And they were in the same rope a dope, and I just decided something had to be different. So I created a formula for balance that I can hold myself accountable to, that I could live into, to really be who I already was, and stop holding on to how other people saw me and kind of that, I don’t want to say box, but I’ll just use it for this proverbial example, I was kind of showing up as the way people had me in the boxes show up because it made them more comfortable. But it really wasn’t who I truly was, it was only whatever piece I allow them to see. And to be fully me to be authentic, to be transparent, like, fully vulnerable. I had to break that box for myself. And it wasn’t them. It was me, right, I’m not putting on them. It was me showing up for that me leaning into those expectations, not highlighting the fact that they have expired me not changing. So the formula for that, for me was balanced, it was admitting my truth, which is the T, it was a fraction over the B which is having the boundaries to achieve that truth as reality. So if I really wanted to be this wholly self actualized person that that was living in peace, that could be silly, as much as she could be serious, that could smile with you, boo, absolutely cut you down. If you cross a line, you know, and you disrespect a genre of people or any of those types of things. I want it to be holy me. And in order to do that, I had to say no to the cousin who I’d love to see, but who only wants to call me and have two hour conversations about the same thing that he or she’s been talking about for the last 10 years. Right? Because it was taking me away from the quality time that 10 minutes, 20 minutes, two hours, or in these days, six weeks, that I really need it for me to refuel, so I could overflow into whatever human or humans that I want it to instead of feeling like I was being taxed by everyone who needed me, but wasn’t in reciprocity, with me as well.

Heather Pearce Campbell  17:43

Yeah. Well, there’s I feel like I mean, I have so many thoughts and questions in response to you what you just said, because I feel like there’s also different levels of this, like, yes, so many of us do the best that we can, where we’re at. And let’s be clear, there’s different levels of financial security, there’s different levels of relationship security, there’s different levels of parenting security, and yes, so everybody’s in a different area. And it can be so easy to like, sign ourselves up for all these outside pressures. And so there is a difference between I think some folks who have let’s just call it less choice, and those that have more choice. But obviously, we’re speaking to a group of entrepreneurs, business owners, people who are in the mode of building something to support their life. Yeah. And so often, we get it backwards, we get it the other way around, we end up molding our life around our business or our career, whatever. So the other, I guess where I would want to start is for the folks that are just starting this conversation of like, oh, my gosh, I’m either burnt out or I’m nearing burnout because I think you know, there’s there has been so much burnout through COVID. Yeah, it’s layered on things that just has made everybody’s life more intense. It’s just up to that intensity level. For folks that are like oh my gosh, I need to listen again to what Naketa just said and a couple of phrases. I think you said switching in to switch out I can’t remember the exact words that you use, but it’s a little bit like robbing Peter to pay Paul. Experience with your time or your attention, right? 

Naketa Ren Thigpen  19:32

Yes, yes.

Heather Pearce Campbell  19:33

I think so many parents can relate to that in one way or another. And like how do you begin to bring those boundaries in closer right when you feel so overextended?

Naketa Ren Thigpen  19:46

Honestly, I think you have to give yourself at least five minutes to look at the areas of your life that feel like they’re about to drop if they haven’t dropped already like when we talk about I think you spinning plates as an example earlier. Most humans in the United States have at least five plates that they’re spinning at least five, if whether you have children that came from your womb or not, you’re nurturing something. For some of us, that’s the mission for our business and the various angles of those streams of income that we’re trying to create through that business. For some, it’s that and little tiny humans that might be young adults or whatever that are bringing all kinds of new layers of.

Heather Pearce Campbell  20:28

For some, it could be their parents, right. So they get their ration? Yes. Some it’s both.

Naketa Ren Thigpen  20:35

Yes, yes. Especially for those in the 35 or 40 ish. Plus, we’re in that sandwich generation, where you really may be caring for both segments of humans, I’m using that term on purpose for so many reasons. But when that’s coming, is looking at what are those plates that feel the most fragile that feel like they’re already slipping or Naketa legit, they’re on the floor honey, like, I would love to say that I’m about to drop it. It’s literally on the floor.

Heather Pearce Campbell  21:03

Drop, and they might be a little cry.

Naketa Ren Thigpen  21:05

I’m doing everything I can not to purposefully step on it because that’s how I’m feeling about it. It’s looking at them and saying, Okay, if that’s just picking kind of main areas, if that is your personal time, if for your personal habits, you’re sleeping, you’re eating, you’re exercising, let’s just call that your personal bests your mealtime habit for your own individual fuel. Well, that plate might be on the floor or it’s slipping. Let’s look at that. Let’s look at our finances. That’s part of what’s causing the slippage is because that’s the heaviest plate because maybe you don’t feel the support that you wish that you had in team or time or investments or other kinds of resources, especially if you are a self funded, try not to work bootstrapped. But self funded, funded. Yeah, entrepreneur. Yep, for sure. Or small business human. Let’s look at your spiritual plate. For many of us, it’s like thinking I woke up and then that’s it, right like and it’s kind of, or maybe there’s a little grace for wherever you believe in Stan, which I believe that when you are pulled forth by something bigger than you, it does help to create a vine of anchor. So regardless of what you believe in, when you have something bigger pulling you that spiritual kind of boundary area is really important. You we got to look at our relationships, most of us are tax because our relationships are not in balance. They are people there are people in positions that they shouldn’t have. They’re what I call parking lot people, which is they’re cool people, people, you go to lunch with cafes, where you meet up at conferences, they can call you occasionally for like, Hey, I have a quick expert question. No problem parking lot, parking lot people don’t belong at your kitchen table. They don’t belong in the inter most area of your life. Hearing about this, you know, very sensitive nature of your relationship with your parents, or a sensitive nature of the relationship with your spouse, your lover, your forever lover was what I call that person, if you’re intimately in a romantic relationship, they should not know that your child is you know, suffering with anxiety because of a rape or abuse that is not something that you share with parking lot people with exceptions. And that’s usually if part of your platform is to be vulnerable, that way to share to give nuggets to help. So aside from that, a lot of the drain we feel is because we have people having access to us, because we want to be known for being available because somewhere someone said that that’s how you show up, you give and you give and you grow. Love it, but you do not give until you go emotionally broke. And many of us are doing that. Because we have people in the wrong positions we’ve made them have access to us that are 3am friends are are people that were like girl, I got $10 in her account, I was looking through the cushions for some gas money, right? Like you know, that’s and that’s not for parking lot people. That’s more of a, hey, I really need to talk to you because I just signed this deal with this company. And I’m really not sure about their practices and I don’t know what to do because this is the gym I’m in. That’s not parking lot people. But if you give that to parking lot people will now they feel like they have a connection to you to pull on you in a way or exactly. They’re pulling their their zapping they’re draining their vampire ring in many ways because you’ve alluded to them being a friend in the most intimate way versus an acquaintance and the way that they really are because you haven’t allowed yourself enough time to dance to see the rhythm of their personality to see how to handle conflict, how to communicate with people that they feel really comfortable with, not just in the formal posh boardroom way and then decide to date them and dating is a continuum right like And that’s a huge part of what I’ve seen over the years, especially for entrepreneurs or people who are very focused on big projects and big missions, because they not everyone rocks that title right for us. But that’s the heaviest part. So that’s usually the plate that we address first. Second to that is usually the finance seconds of that is usually kind of walk into the personal time. Because if we can get some of those relationships together, it automatically frees you up with some personal time, it automatically gives you headspace for the clarity you need to see. Okay, I understand why this is out of alignment, this pricing structure isn’t fitting this service or product, based on what the supports I’m giving I’m not actually creating deeper connections, I’m going wide instead of deep. And that’s not the model that I really want. Not everyone wants to be a Gary Vaynerchuk. And that’s okay. There’s nothing against Gary, right, like good for you. Some people actually want to spend time with their families, right, and they don’t want to sacrifice it and say things like, you know, sleep is for when you’re dead. Some people understand that 90% of actual physical illnesses are stress induced, not made up, but actually come from stress induced illness, adrenal fatigue, cortisol issues, all the things because of this be booked in busy mentality. Instead of prioritizing whatever way you define balance for you. I know people say harmony integration, I’m okay with it. Whatever you use, if I’m falling out of this chair that I’m sitting on, as I talk to Heather right now, I don’t feel like I’m falling out of harmony, or out of integration. I feel like I just lost my balance. Which is why I use it like very concretely. But knowing that this is who you want to be that truth, which is so important for you to know, I want to boutique business, that’s your truth. Why are you trying to build it as if you want to serve 1000 people at one time, where maybe you want to serve 1000 people over the course of five years. So really looking at that truth, that one plate will really help you take a beat back and say, Okay, I see some things that are out of alignment, and you’ll have a little breathing room to then edge in. Oh, I just needed two minutes to blow some bubbles. And that was my deep breathing and my meditation simultaneously. You know what I’m saying? 

Heather Pearce Campbell  27:16

It’s such a great point. 

Heather Pearce Campbell  27:18

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Heather Pearce Campbell  29:01

Part of what I’m wondering and part of the question I’ve asked myself as a mom as an you know, an entrepreneur and attorney. It’s like how do I layer over accomplish multiple things at once, like in a very intentional way. You know, I think if there’s a silver lining to COVID I think that it’s the fact that so many people are really asking themselves the question of is this the work that I want to be doing? Is this the business that I want to be building? Is this the lifestyle that I want and it brought to light I think so many ways that the old paradigms aren’t working are no longer working.

Naketa Ren Thigpen  29:44

But I want to shake my maracas right now so that you know?

Heather Pearce Campbell  29:48

Yes, it’s just I think that’s the gift and I think so many folks that maybe even didn’t see it before are starting to see this and also moving into this space of possibility of like, what could it look like? You know, my question is like, how do you help your clients make that shift if they’ve been so bogged down and they’re finally recognizing like, okay, we’re letting a few things drop away we’re getting a little clearer with our boundaries and you know, keeping those parking lot people at bay and doing a little better job. How do you help them shift to like really what’s possible because I’m in love with your phrase of the lazy overachievers, my sister literally right before I went live here with you. We were talking about labels that got put on us in childhood, and then what you do as an adult to overcompensate for that, right, so she was saying, you know, I got called lazy, like mom called her lazy and my mom read a great mom. I mean, she passed away young and and still we, you know, she was the best mom. And we we all inherit stuff like that, right? Yes, yes. And I’m laughing because I’m like, Ashley, that’s awesome. Like, here’s how laziness is awesome. Because it simply means like, you’re way more efficient than average at getting this stuff done. And she laughed. She was like, Heather, it’s true. Like in school, I can always like, get to the answer the fastest. And she’s got a son that she thinks is the same way. She’s like, Bubba is so smart. But he’s so lazy. And he just wants to do things the fastest. And I’m part of me is like, how do we all adopt more of that, like, you know, okay with that laziness, because I think that sometimes, that is what’s required to give ourselves the room to figure it out to figure the rest out.

Naketa Ren Thigpen  31:42

Oh, my God, Heather, you hit on so many powerful points. Well, at what I will say with our time, because I want to be mindful, because that I know, as a balance and relationship advisor, that you should not be overextending yourself in this beautiful conversation. So I’m happy to do it.

Heather Pearce Campbell  31:58

I love it. Totally and we absolutely should, because I really consider this one of the most important conversations in life generally. And I think it’s because so many of us can keep ourselves too busy to really dig into the most important parts and be extraordinarily intentional about how we’re spending our time and what we’re actually creating.

Naketa Ren Thigpen  32:23

1,000% I will say to answer your question at a kind of like high level is all of my clients because embodied personal development is what I am, like chef’s kiss at is I bring them into our body, your body holds your trauma, but it also holds so much of your joy. And a lot of it is literally like a halo around your purpose. And your purpose is in you. I don’t think it’s outside, I don’t think you have to go find it. But it is buried under calcified chaos and confusion from other people’s definitions of you, right? Like, I woke up to my step grandfather calling me stupid, like that was normal, like I couldn’t do anything, I couldn’t pick up the water bottle, right without some kind of salacious name or some horrible thing being said to me. And it could have absolutely been a brick and my ability to project into the greatest version of myself, you know, talking to a small child all the way up into my pre teens before he passed away. And it was JAYLEE. It was, you know, that was his thing. I don’t know, I think he was proud of it. But regardless of that, my way of making sure that it didn’t become my identity was to remember how joyful I felt when I would run back in the day, I can’t do that anymore with this bet. But back in the day when I would run and release. So I bring my clients into their body. And we do a lot of inner child work when we have to when it’s appropriate. To follow that thread. I am a trauma specialist and psycho therapist by training and I still hold all those licenses. I just don’t show up that way. Because I don’t want to be limited to only doing that. And I have like a whole toolbox of things that I use intuitively based on what they mean. But for people who are listening that are an example of what you just gave, like how do I just address it and come into our body, I love for you to connect with your heartbeat, and follow that rhythm. So I teach something. It’s 4784. So diaphragmatic breathing that really allows you to kind of reset your nervous system and slow you down just a little bit. You can do it on the toilet, you can do it in the car, you can do it if you’re sitting in a cafe waiting for your next you know, potential client to come in. And if you have a straw, it’s even better because you can you know, flow your breath through it and concentrated. It’s four inhale into the count of 41234 but slower than I just said it Yeah, and then hold for seven. Blow out for eight if you’re any low blow and if you feel safe, it The exhale with a is the best, like, blow it out. Out. Yeah, you know, not the cute breath where you’re breathing through your nose, but like breathe through your mouth. So for in your mouth hold for seven, eight out through your mouth with a whoosh sound to get all the air out of your abdomen, and then hold at the bottom of that exhale for four. So 4784, it really does bring you in alignment, try to do that for a cycle of five times, you’d be surprised that your shoulders went from being into your ears to dropping, and then your chest went from being so tight and tense to relaxing, right? It’s an amazing thing to just connect with what is already here, your heart, the rhythm of your beautiful heart, that is allowing you to breathe in and out. And just take that moment to remind yourself of whatever it is that you’re grateful for. I’m grateful for my breath. I’m grateful for my kids, I’m grateful for my health. I’m grateful that I traveled here, while I’m grateful that I found parking, you know, whatever it is that you it doesn’t have to be a big thing. But just come into your body is the first to kind of slow you down. And when you’re ready, you can start to move towards which of these plates do I want to tackle and kind of handle just to stabilize, the other ones are spinning all crazy and wobbly. But which one can I take control of now, and then we kind of move through there and for many of my clients, because they are ambitious, is usually a specific project within their business that they want to tackle and say, Okay, I want to go deeper here, I still got to hold the place here, because that’s just the reality of entrepreneurship. But this is the one that I’ve been scared of, this is the one that I really want to show up more. But it’s also going to take me to be really uncomfortable. So this is the one that I need you to kind of walk me through.

Heather Pearce Campbell  36:53

Well, and it is, you know, it’s such a reminder that we just need to do the right next thing, we don’t need to do all of it, you need a mean, and even this reminder around the breath. Because Ashley, my sister and I, we joke that we’re experts at shallow breathing. Not really something you want to be expert level at, you know, it’s, I think as moms, it’s easy to do that, you know, just have kind of a heightened level of, you know, it’s a little bit like you’re holding your abs in a little too tight for, like you’re not breathing fully when you do that. And it’s just this, you know, I think it’s very symbolic of all of the emotional, mental and physical weight we carry in the world, you know. And like that, that just having a moment to just like, let it go and to it’s so simple. And yet so challenging, I think for so many of us to remember to do that and start there and then feel invited into the next phase of what, what do we want to tackle what do we want to look out for? So I think that’s a great exercise.

Naketa Ren Thigpen  38:07

Simple but not easy, right?

Heather Pearce Campbell  38:08

That’s right. That’s right. That’s exactly it. But I love the because I think a lot of people are familiar with Box breathing, but it’s a different pace, what you’ve just described paste than what you hear most often.

Naketa Ren Thigpen  38:21

Yeah, ’cause it really does help for your parasympathetic nervous system. And the vagal tone activation, like all the big nerdy head stuff, but just come into your body and do that it does wonders, and it will help you in so many areas with anxiety and your cortisol levels and your oxytocin rebalances. Like, there’s so many different things that happen just from breathing. And I know it sounds woowoo for many people listening, but I promise you, it really does help. But you have to come into the breath. You can’t shallow breathe your way through it. Even if you can’t hold because it’s hard to hold for seven and out for eight and all the things if you’re not used to it, just start with four you can do 444 and build up the muscle for the rhythm and then do 4644 Right and then 4744 and then you can eventually get to the 4784 to really strengthen your your lung capacity.

Heather Pearce Campbell  39:20

Yeah, well, I love it. And I think so many people have come out of COVID with, like, for me adrenal fatigue, right, yeah, related to cortisol levels related to not sleeping enough related to trying to cram too much into that phase of life and, and so you know, regardless of whether people have diagnoses, I think so many can relate to the feeling of being too tired or not as clear as they used to or, or, you know, having heightened anxiety like back to the nervous system. I think so many folks are recognizing that it is like a call of the nervous system. And we all need multiple strategies to be able to support that. Yeah.

Naketa Ren Thigpen  40:05

And a lot of them really do come from clinical psychology, right? There’s so many I know, they’ve been termed different things under mindfulness, which is really DBT. And, you know, different behavioral pattern resets, which is really CBT. Like, there’s so much that’s so old school, that’s good that we can bring back and then there’s so many things, we need to let go like some of the definitions that are also old and patriarchal, and do not serve you anymore. Totally.

Heather Pearce Campbell  40:35

Well, I love this, you know, I know that everybody in their own way will be able to relate to this conversation and some element of it and maybe take a new level of just awareness and mindfulness in their days and looking at what are those plates? What are the ones that are falling or feel like they’re gonna fall or already fallen? And like, what is one thing I can do to start to address it or create better boundaries? And it really is. I talk so often with girlfriends, entrepreneurs, my clients, even the legal work that I do for my clients is so much about clear business boundaries, like boundaries are such a big lesson for us all. Anyways, I adore you. I’m so grateful that you’ve spent this time with me and with us today. I know there’s a part to this conversation and definitely I’m really excited for people to pop over and get to know you better through you know your website or wherever you show up. So on that note, where are you online and do you like for people to connect with you?

Naketa Ren Thigpen  41:50

Yes, yes and yes. And in parentheses, so the best place to continue a conversation with me is really balanced bully podcast available everywhere your favorite podcast. Thank you, and the lazy overachiever show is coming soon to based on the time of this recording. So that’s our second podcast. But you can get all of those things right at which is our website which I know will be in the show notes below. And yes connect with me I promise you if you go to Instagram you’re going to get my daughter who’s our media coordinator that is

Heather Pearce Campbell  42:26

I love that. Good job, daughter. I keep trying to hire my sisters do you mind if I could do nothing on social media like talking about boundaries? I’d be so happy. 

Naketa Ren Thigpen  42:37

That part and that’s me. I’m like I’m not interested. I wanted to share but I don’t want to do all that other stuff. But LinkedIn is is really me. So message me and say Naketa I heard you were talking to Heather you had this amazing blah blah blah on got some grits in business and all the things then you know let’s connect there and you can met you can follow and message me there. It’s really me answering no one else check in.

Heather Pearce Campbell  43:03

I love that about LinkedIn. Yeah, I know. It’s really a great platform for true connections. Yes, yeah. Yeah. So we will share those if you’re listening. We will share Naketa has links, her website, her LinkedIn, also the links directly to the podcast. I’m super happy to share all of that you can find it at the show notes page which is find Naketa’s episode they will all be there. Naketa I’m so glad to be able to share your work and I just love that this is the area that you live in because we all need support with this. I really believe it’s it’s part of the human condition to learn how to do this the right way.

Naketa Ren Thigpen  43:49

Absolutely. This was an honor. Thank you for holding space, Heather. 

Heather Pearce Campbell  43:52

Thank you! What final thoughts take away action step it could be whatever you want to leave people with today what comes to mind?

Naketa Ren Thigpen  44:03

I want for everyone who was filling what I call the bite where you are burnt out imposter syndrome. You’re in a toxic relationship loop with your business, your partner, your best friend or your lover. And those expire expectations. I want you not to bite back I want you to release and really acknowledge that all of it is normal. All of it as well. And you will be well as soon as you release from the shame and guilt that’s literally anchoring you to one or all of those things.

Heather Pearce Campbell  44:35

Oh so good. So I love your acronym by that’s a little bit how it feels, right?

Naketa Ren Thigpen  44:43

We have I know.

Heather Pearce Campbell  44:46

Oh my goodness. Thank you so much, folks, jump over visit Naketa, follow her go join her podcast. I’m so excited to share this. We’ll be in touch soon. Naketa, thank you. 

Naketa Ren Thigpen  44:59

Thank you.

GGGB Outro  45:00

Thank you for joining us today on the Guts, Grit and Great Business® podcast. We hope that we’ve added a little fuel to your tank, some coffee to your cup and pep in your step to keep you moving forward in your own great adventures. For key takeaways, links to any resources mentioned in today’s show and more, see the show notes which can be found at Be sure to subscribe to the podcast and if you enjoyed today’s conversation, please give us some stars and a review on Apple podcasts, Spotify or wherever you get your podcast so others will find us too. Keep up the great work you are doing in the world and we’ll see you next week.