With Nikki Rausch, CEO of Sales Maven, an organization dedicated to authentic selling. Nikki has the unique ability to transform the misunderstood process of “selling”. With 25+ years of experience selling to such prestigious organizations as The Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation, Hewlett-Packard, and NASA, Nikki shattered sales records in many industries, receiving multiple “top producer” awards along the way.

Join us for this insightful conversation on buying signals (and how easily people miss them!), what to do when someone asks you for a discount or concession on price, and on what it takes to be successful at sales, whether you are naturally bold and pushy, or reserved and introverted.

Listen as Nikkis walks us through a unique 5-step system she has developed that helps her clients transform their sales and get results! Be sure to listen for the most-missed steps, and why skipping these steps can leave people feeling frustrated, uncomfortable, and confused.

You’ll also hear one of the simple ways Nikki helps her clients to use social media to talk with their audience rather than at them, how to create greater influence with your potential clients, and how to be more impactful selling from stage. Get this, and so much more, in today’s powerful conversation!

Today, entrepreneurs and small business owners from a wide range of disciplines hire Nikki to show them how to sell successfully and authentically, without being pushy or salesy. An engaging and sought-after speaker, she shares the secrets of her sales success through illuminating keynote addresses and business-changing workshops. Her robust Sales Maven Society ignites game-changing outcomes for clients. Nikki’s three popular books are available at Amazon. And her podcast, Sales Maven, can be found on your favorite podcast platform.

>> Subscribe to Guts, Grit & Great Business on Apple Podcasts

Biggest takeaways (or quotes) you don’t want to miss:

  • The most missed step in her 5-step system, and why missing this step can cause confusion and frustration in a potential customer
  • How to bring your personality to your sales conversations
  • One simple step to stop talking at people, and instead talk with them, on social media
  • Why you don’t have to be extroverted, aggressive or pushy to succeed at sales

Check out these highlights:

  • 7:28 What to do when someone asks for a discount on your services or offers.
  • 15:55 There are people who  might be considered a little bit pushy or aggressive, but they’re super charming, and the experience felt really good. I have found that those people are being authentic to themselves, … and so that’s why you like them. What you see is what you get.
  • 25:34 On learning how to create curiosity – one of the most important things you can do in your sales process, and one of the most missed steps.
  • 41:40 By having options and ways to work with you, you’ve got options. If you don’t have options, it’s just a yes or no. Options feel really good to people.
  • 50:49 How to book people into a discovery or sales call from stage (even when you “can’t sell”). You don’t want to miss this!

How to get in touch with Nikki:

On social media:

On Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/yoursalesmaven

On LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nicolerausch/

On Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/your_sales_maven/


You can get access to Nikki’s FREE Gift, a copy of her e-book, Closing the Sale: Simple Tips to Increase Your Confidence

Imperfect Show Notes

We are happy to offer these imperfect show notes to make this podcast more accessible to those who are hearing impaired or those who prefer reading over listening. While we would love to offer more polished show notes, we are currently offering an automated transcription (which likely includes errors, but hopefully will still deliver great value), below.

GGGB Intro  00:00

Coming up today on Guts, Grit & Great Business…

Nikki Rausch  00:04

There are people who you probably have bought from before that might be considered a little bit pushy or aggressive, but they’re super charming. And the experience felt really good. And I find that those people are being authentic to themselves like they very much are an extrovert, they very much will kind of push you a little bit on something that you say or do or challenge you in some way. But it’s usually very authentic to their personality. And so, oftentimes you’ll go like, I kind of like this person, like they feel like you feel like what you see is what you get. So you want to show up from this place of being authentic.

GGGB Intro  00:45

The Adventure of entrepreneurship and building a life and business you love, preferably at the same time is not for the faint of heart. That’s why Heather Pearce Campbell is bringing you a dose of guts, grit and great business stories that will inspire and motivate you to create what you want in your business and life. Welcome to the guts, grit and great business podcast where endurance is required. Now, here’s your host, the legal website warrior, Heather Pearce Campbell.

Heather Pearce Campbell  01:18

Hello and welcome. I am Heather Pearce Campbell, The Legal Website Warrior®. I’m an attorney and legal coach based here in Seattle, Washington and working with entrepreneurs around the world. I’m so excited to bring you Nikki Rausch today. So, welcome to another episode of guts, Grit & Great Business. I am so excited to welcome and Nikki today. Welcome, Nikki.

Nikki Rausch  01:45

Hey, Heather, thank you so much for having me. I’m so excited to be here with you. 

Heather Pearce Campbell  01:49

Oh, I’m so looking forward to this conversation. For those that don’t know Nikki, Nikki was a former Seattlelite, or at least in the Seattle area. I was just chatting with her before we went live and she’s now in Boise, Idaho. Nikki is CEO of Sales Maven, an organization dedicated to authentic selling. She also has the unique ability to transform the misunderstood process of selling. With 25 plus years of experience selling to such prestigious organizations as the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation, Hewlett Packard and NASA. Nikki shattered sales records in many industries receiving multiple top producer awards along the way. Today entrepreneurs and small business owners from a wide range of disciplines hire Nikki to show them how to sell successfully and authentically, without being pushy or salesy, and engaging and sought after speaker she shares the secrets of her sales success through illuminating keynote addresses and business changing workshops. Her robust sales Maven society ignites game changing outcomes for clients. Nikki’s three popular books are available at Amazon and her podcast sales Maven can be found on your favorite podcast platform. So Nikki, I think I was first connected to your work through a local event here in the Seattle area where I got to hear you speak.

Nikki Rausch  03:15

Yeah, I think that was a business among moms event many, many years ago,

Heather Pearce Campbell  03:20

Many years ago through our mutual friend, Julie fry, who’s also been on the podcast and Julie has since moved on and is doing some interesting things. But Nikki, it’s so great to reconnect.

Nikki Rausch  03:33

It’s fun to see you. I know. I mean, I get to see you because we’re on zoom. But it’s fun to it is fun to connect with you. I was super excited when this popped up on my schedule.

Heather Pearce Campbell  03:42

Yes. Well, after watching you speak, I went and bought your book. And we were chatting about it just before this conversation, the buying signals book, which I think you said is your number two. And so your second book and I you can share the full title of it. What’s it called?

Nikki Rausch  04:00

It’s Buying Signals: How to Recognize the Buying Signals and Act on Them. 

Heather Pearce Campbell  04:06

Totally. We don’t need something like 17 buying signals. I read it on an airplane flight, right. And I, I went super fast read. It’s a super fast read, which is why I’ve also given it as gifts to friends, people who I know, are not selling in their business the way they should be. And it was like there were so many lightbulb moments in that book because I would read it and go, Oh, that was a buying signal. Like I totally missed that. The thing I love about that book is it lays out so clearly what people can miss and how we can misinterpret buying signals that people are actually giving us.

Nikki Rausch  04:44

Yeah, exactly. That’s the whole premise and why I wrote that book. Because I was speaking a lot. You know, when I when you and I first met. I was speaking a lot in the Seattle area. And I first the very first time I was ever gonna even talk about buying signals. I was really nervous because I thought everybody knows this. They’re gonna go like, why is this lady talking about something we all know. But I decided to talk about it. And it was such like, it was like light bulbs went on in the room with people and they’re like what? So for your audience, if you haven’t heard anybody talk about buying signals before it’s a verbal or nonverbal cue that somebody gives, that indicates interest. And your job is to act on the buying signal in the moment, so that you move them through the process and get to the place where you exchange dollars for services. So yeah, the I ended up writing the book because I was like, so surprised at how many people didn’t know how to recognize and act on a buying signal. And so I was like, I’m just gonna put this into a book, I’m gonna put it up on Amazon, people can go buy it, it’s like $10. And it will change their business, if they can just get clear on these buying signals. So I love that. I’m so flattered that you read the book, and that you have gifted it, that is the ultimate compliment when somebody gifts, one of my books to somebody else. So thank you.

Heather Pearce Campbell  06:08

Oh, you’re so welcome. I love books that are actionable. And that really give you ways to change something you’re doing right now. And that one, like I said, there were several light bulbs that went off for me where it’s like, Oh, I remember distinctly the buying signal about some clients basically kind of bartering for price. Right? And, and often, I would misunderstand that one as like, oh, they’re just not my client, like they’re not ready to invest in their business yet. Right. And so I think that there are ways and I think sometimes that’s true, I think sometimes people will barter because they are not your right client. But I think some and I can’t remember the the way that you made the point, but some people will just ask, because they’ll feel like maybe they missed an opportunity if they didn’t, right. And this or, or culturally, it’s what they’re trained to do, or whatever. And I remember being like, Oh, I shouldn’t, you know, just necessarily exclude people who want to have that conversation, because I’m misinterpreting them as not, quote, unquote, my client, right?

Nikki Rausch  07:17

Yeah. Yeah, I often say that somebody’s asking for a discount or wanting to barter around your price. You know, put the ego aside, don’t be offended by it. Because for some people, like I grew up in a, my dad and grandfather owned a tool store. And they, they traded and bartered all the time. So that was very much a part of my family history. So I wasn’t really offended when people would want to barter with me, but at the same time, it is absolutely okay to say to somebody who asked you for a discount, you know, I don’t offer discounts on my services, but I’d love to still earn your business, is that something you’d like to do together? And most of the time, people will go like, yes. But if you don’t do that, if you don’t act on it, if you don’t treat it, like it’s a buying signal, they’ll walk away feeling unsatisfied with our interaction with you, because now they feel like, oh, I’ve offended her in some way, or, Oh, she doesn’t even want my business. You know, whatever that is, and then you walk away, having lost out on working with a great client who very well may pay your full price. But if they don’t ask, they feel like, Did I miss an opportunity to get a good deal? And we you know, in our society today, I mean, I don’t know about you, but I think I probably got like 30 emails today of things that were on sale, you know, from places that I shop, or whatever. And so it’s very common in our society for things to be on sale for there to be a deal. And so it’s okay, don’t be offended when somebody asked, just get curious and then invite them, you know, comment on it, either say yes or no, I always say in sales, only offer a discount if you get something in return. Like there has to be this balance of power in the relationship. So just offering somebody a discount because they ask isn’t in your best interest. It’s, it’s okay if you want to give them a discount, but get something in return, so that they value what it is that they just got from you.

Heather Pearce Campbell  09:19

I love I love that point, not only about getting something in return, but your response to that question reminded me that one of my favorite parts of the book was the the clarity with which you model how to make the Ask right, responding clearly and then turning right back around and inviting them to do business with you. And I think that really stumps a lot of people getting to the point of really clearly making the ask, talk to us. For those that don’t know, you take us back to your start in sales. Right? Not everybody loves sales or loves learning sales or chooses a career in sales, right? Yeah, that’s so true. It’s So true. And yet as entrepreneurs, we all end up everyone, at least in some way needing to learn sales. What How did you start down that path?

Nikki Rausch  10:10

Well, again, I mentioned I grew up in a tool store. So I was doing a little bit of selling, I worked the cash register, often as a way to make money. And when I first moved to Washington, which was back in 93, one of my first jobs that I got, was working at this kiosk in the mall during the holiday season. So it was like a temporary job, but they had a commission component to there. So you could work and I got paid minimum wage, but if I sold a certain amount during my, you know, my block of time that I was working, then it would, it would start to elevate my pay. So oftentimes, I was making double what they’re like what my normal pay would be, sometimes even more. And then I ended up getting a job during a college project, working for a technology company in sales. And that’s really where my career was born. And I found that I actually not that people would necessarily know this, but I, I’m kind of shy just by nature, I’m not super, I’m not extroverted by any stretch of the imagination. And I’m not pushy or aggressive, that that’s just not my style. So I went to work in this technology field, really around a lot of a very aggressive sales people that were having a lot of success. And I had to figure out what was my way How was I going to be successful. And do it in a way that still felt good, because I think one of the things that scares most people in sales, is we’ve all seen it done by somebody who’s super aggressive, who kind of comes across as pushy, and maybe we don’t even enjoy the experience with them. Like, we don’t want to be like that. And so one of the things I learned, I also started studying a few years later neuro linguistic programming, and that was really a big game changer for me. Because I realized that by using what I was learning in my NLP classes, and if that’s a new term as a listener, it’s really the study of communication. So if I could apply my NLP background, and my sales background of really making the relationship a priority, and making the foundation of everything I do built around rapport, then sales got so much easier for me. And then that’s why now I teach this five step process to the sales conversation. I call it the selling staircase. And I teach people step by step by step what to say what to do, not in a script, like not like you sound like a robot, but know where you are in the conversation, and how do you move to the next step with people? and sales gets so much easier when you make it about the conversation about the other person? And you’re not focused on? What are they thinking about me? Am I being pushy? Am I being not enough? You know, should I be more aggressive? Like, you don’t need to worry about any of that stuff, when you really start to focus on where am I in the process? Where am I in the conversation? And what do I do next?

Heather Pearce Campbell  13:08

The part that I love about what you just said is one, this idea of kind of having an overall map knowing because I think people can really get lost in the details and in the conversation itself and trying to decipher emotions and signals and figuring out where they’re at. And so keeping in mind that bigger picture, you know, framework, but also this idea that salespeople, like you have to be aggressive, or you have to be an extrovert or you have to, you know, it’s it’s so refreshing to know, and I’m sure people that are listening that don’t count themselves in those categories, either as aggressive or extroverted or super outgoing or verbal. Right, that there’s still a way for them to learn sales, do it well do it in a way that fits. And that will work. I mean, and I think I’d be curious, your your perspective being inside the sales industry? Because what I find living inside of the legal industry, is there are certain perceptions about an industry sometimes that Well, certainly a percentage of people in that industry, you know, have helped to create that perception. Can you know buy in when you look at the vast majority of people in the profession that that perception is actually not true? Do you find that the sales industry is largely made up of people who you would call aggressive or is that something that you know, like, like auto mechanics or lawyers or any of the you know, industries where there are some bad apples which have earned a bad name is that is that true for sales as well?

Nikki Rausch  14:52

Yes, I think that is true that there’s there’s always going to be a percentage of people but I’ll tell you what, I have found more and more I have worked with 1000s of sales reps in my career I’ve worked with, you know, I’ve trained now 1000s of people how to sell successfully. But I’ve also in my career worked and supported, probably hundreds or even 1000s, there of different types of salespeople. And usually the people that come off as aggressive as pushy. Normally, it’s because they’ve been trained by somebody else, that this is how you do it. And it doesn’t feel good, it doesn’t feel good to them, and it doesn’t feel good to you, but they’re doing it because somebody is pushing them and going, this is how you sell, you know, go out and hunt the big game and, you know, bring in the, you know, the urine elephant killer, or whatever they call me, I hate that stuff in sales. But what I find is that, and this is why I teach this, this five step process to sales is that it allows for your own personality to show up because there are people who you probably have bought from before that might be considered a little bit pushy or aggressive, but they’re super charming. And the experience felt really good. And I find that those people are being authentic to themselves, like they very much are an extrovert, they very much will kind of push you a little bit on something that you say or do or challenge you in some way. But it’s usually very authentic to their personality. And so oftentimes, you’ll go like, I kind of like this person, like they feel like you feel like what you see is what you get. So you want to show up from this place of being authentic. And I you know, from I work with people that are like that, and this spectrum all the way to another I had a client a few years ago who refuse to turn her camera on during our coaching sessions, because she absolutely did not want to be seen. And you know, and so what we did is we found ways for her to be authentic, and show up successfully in her sales conversations that felt good to her, and that she could still continue to prosper and grow her business. And it’s really it’s like understanding, what’s the process? Where am I in the conversation? What do I need to do to move somebody to the next step? And so, you know, she used to describe herself as super awkward, and I was like, Great, let’s find a way to make what you consider awkward, charming, and effective.

Heather Pearce Campbell  17:23

Right? Well, and I do, I do love what you say about, some people can get away with being pushy, because maybe that’s who they are, in their personality, day to day is they’re just bold, and they’ll push people a bit, but because it’s authentic, it works. And it’s not overly offensive even to the consumer. Right. And whereas other people can do it very gently, like I, my sister is actually dating somebody who they’re both in sales. And they’re both phenomenal. And I don’t see him as like an aggressive, pushy, like, he’s a relationship builder guy. And, and he’s phenomenal, right? And so I love that you’re breaking apart this this stereotype or whatever myth that you have to be aggressive that you have to be totally extroverted because it’s just not true. And I think it really has a lot more to do with how you’re showing up. And whether you’re being yourself. And doing that in the context of having a process having you know, a formula or a process that you’ve created that works for your business. So share with us, how do you how do you help people build this five step process that you talk about? Is it the same for every business? Is it formulated a little bit differently, depending on the business?

Nikki Rausch  18:44

Yeah. So I really focus on the sales conversation, because I find that there’s, I mean, there’s a lot of people out there that teach sales and they teach. Oftentimes, they say they’re teaching sales, but a lot of times what they’re teaching is marketing, and they don’t really they teach, like, how do you bring leads in the door, which, frankly, is marketing, you’ll never convince me of it otherwise, like, that’s the marketing. Now your job is how do I take that lead and convert it to a sale? How do I turn that lead into earned dollars? So this is why I teach people the sales conversation, because once you’ve got the lead in there, you know, people often say like, fill your sales funnel, but a lot of your sales funnel again is marketing activities. So once the leads in the door, what do you do and say next. So the the five steps in the process is step one is the introduction. And the idea there is to make a powerful first impression. And there you know, I have to, you know, deeper dive trainings. And actually my third book is called the selling staircase where I dive into this, as well. So there’s the power of the first impression. So make a strong introduction. Once you do that, it’s very easy to move to step two in the process, which is create curiosity. And creating curiosity by the way, is the most missed step in the sales process. So if you can learn how To create curiosity, if you can allow somebody to go like, oh, Heather, tell me more about that, or I have some questions for you. Well, now it’s super easy to move somebody to step three, which is the discovery. Some people call this like the consultation call, some people would call it like an intake form. And what are the questions that you’re asking in that discovery process? Because all questions during the discovery should lead to hiring you. And this is where I break this down for people, we figure out, what are the right questions that they’re asking. Oftentimes, they’re asking a lot of questions that they only need the answers to once somebody hires them, that’s a mistake. So let’s make sure we’re asking the right questions that lead people down this next path, which leads you to step four, which is the proposal. And when I say proposal, that doesn’t necessarily mean like a formal written proposal that you send to somebody as a beautiful document, it could, depending on your business, but oftentimes, it’s just how do I lay out? What are the next steps how to work with how to work with me how to pay me money, so that you can get your needs met, right? So that’s step four. And then Step five is the clothes. And this is the second most missed step in the selling process. Oftentimes, people get to the proposal, and they think they’re done. They think, Okay, so here’s the way we can work together, let me know what you decide, no, you’ve got to issue close language. And so there’s very specific language that you use. And there’s a specific process that make sure that you get to that place where you can put a question in front of them, which is essentially now it’s going to be more finesse than this, but it’s essentially is would you like to buy Yes or no?

Heather Pearce Campbell  21:45

Yeah. Well, and the pieces I can absolutely see. So you mentioned, step two, the creating curiosity. And Step five, the clothes being the biggest misses? Are people doing something there instead? Or are they just leaving those steps out?

Nikki Rausch  22:04

Oftentimes, what they’re doing is they’re skipping steps. So it’s kind of like, you know, the comparison I often give is like, imagine that you’re going to stop at the grocery store to pick up some milk on your way home from somewhere. And as you’re walking into the grocery store, somebody jumps out in front of you and says, like, would you like to buy my whatever it is? And maybe they kind of surprise you a little bit. And you’re like, what, what, what is this? What are you selling? And you’re kind of confused, and you’re thinking, I’m just here to get milk? Like what? Why are you a costing me at the grocery store? So this is what it feels like to many people, because somebody somewhere told them, like, go in for the hearts to help, like, get that close that deal. And so they skip all these steps. And then people are going like, what like, what, who are you? Why are you selling? What are you asking? I’m confused. So when you skip steps, you often leave people feeling confused, frustrated, and frankly, sometimes angry. We’re like, how dare you cost me? So like, are you don’t know me? or Why are you selling to me? Like Where did this even come from? So it’s super important that as the seller, I often will say you don’t get to skip steps in the process. Now a prospect can show up, you know, and reach out to you and be like, Heather, I’ve been listening to your podcast, I really need you in my life and in my business. So how do I work with you? I don’t want you to say to them like, oh, slow down, we got to go back to step one, I want you to say, let me ask you a couple quick questions. Here’s how we can work together, would you like to do that, like, I want you to go step three, four, and five, like, you can, if they want to skip the step, they can go with them. But you don’t get to skip steps in the process. So oftentimes, people go from step one to Step five, and try to skip everything in between. And it’s really an uncomfortable experience for the client, because they don’t know what to do. And they don’t know why it’s happening this way. And some people will be nice to you, and will nicely just start ghosting you or just start going away. And if you’re not sure why people are ghosting you, or not returning your calls, not returning your emails, nine out of 10 times it’s because you skipped some steps.

Heather Pearce Campbell  24:15

Yeah, well, and I think we’ve all had different probably different parts of life, whether it’s like as a consumer out in the world, whether it’s like in our business attending an event, right, we’ve had the experience of being sold to in a way that is uncomfortable and does set up some irritation or aggravation. Why is it Why is it so hard like going back to point to step two around creating curiosity and I assume this is partly about inviting somebody in right letting them know in some interesting way that this could apply to them. How Why do people skip that? Why is that a hard thing for people to accomplish the creating curiosity part

Nikki Rausch  24:58

well, I don’t think any I don’t think there are a lot of people who teach it. Frankly, I don’t think it’s I don’t think it’s really an I don’t think it’s a commented on part of the sales process often enough. I actually don’t know anybody else that talks about creating curiosity in the selling process, like as a formalized training. Now, they might teach you some ways to do it, but they’re not commenting on it to make it really obvious. And because they don’t comment on it, and make it really obvious, it’s not obvious to somebody who doesn’t know how to sell already. So learning how to create curiosity, one of the ways to do it is by asking questions, and by answering questions that people have that make them go like, what does that mean? Or tell me more about that? Or like, Huh, I wonder if that’s something I could benefit from, when you get those types of responses, which, by the way, are all buying signals, then it’s really easy to invite the person to the next possible step in the process, which oftentimes, like, for me, in my process, it’s getting on a discovery call, it’s talking about ways we might work together, it’s, you know, it gives me an opportunity to find out more about them in their business, but just showing up and doing this hard sell, or, you know, the the other mistake is that people think like, Oh, I’m just gonna do the shotgun approach to sales, I’m gonna put, you know, I’m just gonna sell to everybody who I’ve ever met, through LinkedIn, through, you know, whatever social media platform, I’m gonna blast everybody the same message. And then and then they go, nobody wants to buy from me. Well, that’s because you skipped all the staffs. And you didn’t have permission, frankly, to sell to them. And I, I personally don’t think you should sell to somebody without their permission. Like, if you get to the place where you’re laying out ways to work with you, you should have asked permission to do that. So for me in the selling process, when I’m talking to a prospective client, and I, I can clearly see, oh, my gosh, I could totally help this person, I’d feel really good about having them as a client, I know I can make an impact in their business. I don’t say to them, oh, you need to hire me. I asked and say, you know, based on what you’ve shared, I do have some ideas of ways that we can work together. Would you be interested in hearing more about that? And if they say, yes, then I have permission to now talk about ways we can work together. But just showing up and going like, I have people say this to me all the time. Like, Nikki, I just, you know, I go look at people’s website, and then I just send them messages. And I tell them like, your website doesn’t do this. Well, and you obviously need help with that. And I’m like, how offensive they must be super offended. There’s a reason you’re calling me now needing some help with sales because what you’re doing is skipping steps. You don’t have permission to even comment on their website. Yeah, it’s, let’s get permission. Let’s build relationships and see what happens because sales gets a lot easier. And your time and energy and dollars frankly, are used in a much more efficient way.

Heather Pearce Campbell  28:10

Okay, let’s pause just for a moment to hear from today’s sponsor. Today’s sponsor is the company money grit. If you have ever chosen a tool to help support you with your money tracking your money habits and found that it actually adds stress does not provide clarity, or does not help you change behaviors related to money, then you need to check out money grit, you can go to money grit.com it is a tool that will help you both in your personal finances and personal budgeting and also has a business side as well. So as an entrepreneur, if you are wanting to find a tool that is able to support you in both worlds, where you can stop budgeting and start seeing the possibilities with a tool that will help you stay on track and will actually help you change your financial behaviors. This is the tool for you. Finally, a money management program that shows you the whole picture. Money grid helps you gain control of your money with exclusive features designed to ensure you have a spending plan that works for you. You’ll never get caught off guard or go without so you can stress less and live better. Check out money grit.com Okay, back to today’s amazing guest that permission piece is huge. I feel like you’re right so many people skip that second step. I actually originating from the same group got invited that you and I met got invited to somebody said like a coffee chat but it was over zoom. It was like meet and connect. Literally 10 seconds into, you know, I didn’t even know who this person was what they were about like nothing and she didn’t know me either. She’s like, Oh, can you go to this URL and pull up this video and it was like all about her company. And it was some I’m sure. Marketing sales video at the end. I was like, You know what? Well, I thought this was like, literally, let’s connect and learn about like, I didn’t sign up for this. I was clear. And I just got off the call, but I part of me inside was like, wow, does this work for her? Like, I cannot imagine this actually working and how many people are out there skipping that step and not getting permission to actually have the next step of the conversation?

Nikki Rausch  30:46

Yeah, this whole I call that like bait and switch. So like, knock off the bait and switch selling, don’t tell somebody you want to have a coffee chat to get to know them only to go on and pitch pitch pitch. You should never pitch without permission. Frankly, if you’re pitching without permission, I can guarantee you you are annoying. Probably 9.9 out of 10. People are super annoyed at you and feel like this is why I hate salespeople. It’s like Yeah, because somebody didn’t teach this person, or frankly, this person never took the time to invest, to learn how to do it in a way that feels good. Because on that same coffee chat had she created some curiosity, and had you asking questions about her business, then it may have led to let me tell you a little bit about which by the way, I don’t care what you sell, or what you do. If you’re on a live call with somebody, whether it’s zoom, whether in person or on the phone with somebody, don’t ever send somebody to watch a video, while on a call with you. That is the worst sales approach. And companies that are out there teaching that it makes me all it makes me angry. And it makes me nauseous for their sales people that is such a missed opportunity for connection and rapport, then to tell somebody to go look at a URL and watch a video like, Oh, no, never. Absolutely not.

Heather Pearce Campbell  32:12

It was so painful. And I just remember thinking like, Wait, is somebody teaching her to do this? Like, is this literally their system? Or is she just like trying it? Because she doesn’t know how to sell?

Nikki Rausch  32:24

Right? No, there’s companies out there that teach this like get them to watch the video, it’s like, well, first of all, here’s another thing I say often, sales is not something you do to somebody, it’s something you do with. And when you start treating people like this is a with this is a collaborative conversation approach to sales, your job is never to convince anybody to buy from you. Your job is to understand what’s their need, what’s their want, what’s their desire? Do you have a solution for them? And do you have permission to put that solution in front of them?

Heather Pearce Campbell  32:59

Right? I mean, this is this is acting like you care about the relationship, not the sale, right? You’re actually spending time getting to know somebody. And so I can’t imagine anything other than relationship based sell. Like, I just can’t imagine anything else working because at least in my experience, if I don’t feel like somebody actually cares about me or wants to know about me, or support a unique need that I have, you know, in a way that they can resolve it, I’m like, I don’t really want to know anything further about what they’re doing. Right? If I’m a consumer, if I’m looking for a solution to my problem is,

Nikki Rausch  33:40

none of us want to be treated like a wallet. And yeah, you know, like, if you treat people like you’re just a big wallet, and I’m just trying to pull, pull some money out of you like that feels gross, it feels icky, it turns people off, you know, and realistically, we love to work with people who we feel are invested in some way, in us having something that makes our life or our business better, right, like I don’t want to give my money to people who treat me like a wallet don’t care at all about making sure that their product or their service delivers and meets my need. Otherwise, what’s like, what is the point you’re just wasting, you know, if you have a product that’s a consumable, that you can just put up on a website, and you can optimize your SEO. And you know, you can drive people to the website, and they’re just gonna buy all day long from you, then you don’t have to have great customer service. I don’t you have to have a product, frankly, to do that. Most of the people I work with are service based. I do have a few clients that are product based, but they’re having real conversations with people. Like I’m not an expert on how to optimize your website for SEO. Like there’s great people out there. That’s not me. But most of the most of the people who are building businesses today, have some type of a service there. Doing something based on their expertise, and sharing their expertise like you right in some way. So you absolutely have to learn how to sell and do it in a way that makes the relationship the priority. And people will love you for it.

Heather Pearce Campbell  35:14

Yeah, we’re on this concept of, of sales being something that you do with somebody versus to them. Talk to us briefly. Because I think social media, it’s really easy for people to talk at other people not talk with them. What What do you like when it comes to social media? What do you train your clients on? Like? How do you get them to change their mindset? Or do it the right way versus this talking out? That I think happens so frequently?

Nikki Rausch  35:43

Yeah, one of the easiest ways to switch from talking out to talking with is to ask questions, questions and start conversation. And if you want to share something, so for instance, here’s just one example. Like, let’s say you want to share something really exciting, or some new offer that you have in your business, like you could post it on social media. And, and you might get, you might get a little bit of conversation around it. But what would happen? If you start with a question, for instance, what have you said to somebody, like, what’s the most exciting thing that happened to you this week? Here’s what’s been exciting in in my business, and you can then talk about the offer. And then what happens is, oftentimes people will, you know, go like, Oh, that’s so interesting about your offer, because they’ll pay attention the offer, or they’ll actually go, here’s something that that happened for me. And now we’re actually having some conversation, and I can, you know, pour some love on them and go like, hey, that’s so awesome, great job. You know, how can I support you further? Again, asking a question versus just talking at people all the time. We’re so bombarded with being talked at and we get we can we just start to tune it out, right? It’s like, oh, here’s another person talking at me start talking with, and you can do it by asking questions.

Heather Pearce Campbell  36:59

Well, I love that approach to really treating everything that you do in your business that’s client facing, like a conversation, like an exchange, even, even this podcast, for example, one of the things that I love, love love to do is talk about business and have a conversation with somebody about all kinds of things related to business. But I have noticed that there are people that treat a podcast, like a stage, not like a conversation, when it’s an interview based podcast, right? And for me, it’s like, I want people to feel like they’re sitting there having this conversation with us. It’s, you know, at a dinner table, like much more of a conversation than it is a presentation or again, this whole thing of talking at somebody, that’s what you do when you’re on a stage. I mean, and if you do it, well, it can be more of a conversation, right? But I think you get my point, like, you’re not, you’re not presenting and talking at somebody. And when you can avoid that and make it a conversation like people want to know more they want to get to know you, they want to understand how you know, they might work with you if it’s something that’s going to be a fit for them. Right, right. Now, talk to us, because you you walked us through the five steps, right of having an effective sales process. Talk to us about why it’s important to have a high end offer.

Nikki Rausch  38:27

Well, one of the reasons it’s important to have a high end offer is because often times people want a what’s next, or they want to start with the like, usually your high end offer is that private one on one time with you. And there are a lot of people out there who are like, I’m not interested in group stuff, or I’m not interested in an online training course, I want you I want to engage with you. So by having a high end offer, they get, you know, usually it’s that they get the most amount of one on one tailored approach time. So my one on one clients, they get the most access to me. And every answer that I give is specific to their business. And so that’s a way to amplify their success, they get, you know, they get results really fast. And, and I get paid a premium to do that. Now, I’m totally a fan of you know, I have multiple ways that people can work work with me, I do have a group membership program, that’s phenomenal. And people get great results in there. But they have to do the work. They have to like, okay, I just took this training from Nikki and now I have to figure out how to apply this to my business, right? whereas my private clients are like, yeah, that training was great Nikki and how this is what I’m thinking but is how do I apply this to my business, and then I’m giving very specific answers. So having a high end offer. It also is a really great way to make a big difference to your revenue to your bottom line each month by having an opportunity and the other kind of piece This is that you also need to promote it on a regular basis. Don’t assume that people are going to go to your website and figure it out, make sure you’re promoting on a regular basis, the different types of ways that people can work with you. So they understand it’s not just a one and done offer, that there are multiple ways that they can come into your business and work with you and a high end offer. You know, again, it’s the you attract premium clients who want exceptional results. Well,

Heather Pearce Campbell  40:31

I love Yeah, I love that piece, especially about exceptional results. But I find that so many, you know, in in the space that I serve, right, we’re talking coaches, consultants, online experts, and educators, speakers, authors, but I think so many people are enamored by the group program, right, doing less from a time standpoint, right, serving more clients, the one to many model, which I think is fabulous, but I agree with you that if you care about results, and especially for clients that are I’m just going to call them like catalysts type of clients like they want to move, they don’t want to wait eight weeks or 10 weeks to begin to experience the transformation that you’re going to deliver in a group program. Right that people can really miss out if they’re not talking about and I love the reminder of having to, you know, educate people about exactly how it is that they can work with you. Because I think a lot of people do that poorly. And don’t get it out there enough. And don’t remind people the ways that people can work with them directly.

Nikki Rausch  41:35

Yeah, yeah, for sure. And, you know, making sure that people know, the other thing is that by having options of ways to work with you, it also gives people’s brain to go like, Do I want this or that? But if your answer is you’ve got you’ve got one option, then your your, your options, then are yes or no. But if you have different ways that people can come in and work in, in your business with you. Now, it’s not a yes or no, it’s like choice A, B, C, or no. Right? Now, it’s like options feel really good to people?

Heather Pearce Campbell  42:10

I Well, I love that reminder about options, because I think people can oversimplify. And you’re right that if it’s like one primary program or core offering that you have, and that’s all you’re making, like that’s the only offer you’re making to that client. It’s yes or no, but it’s like this or the marketplace, right? They’re more likely to compare what you’re doing here in this program versus somebody else’s program or somebody else’s offer, like, Let’s go, you know, compare what I get here, and what I get here versus the flexibility of saying, you know, these are the ways that you can work with me, I love that reminder. How can you increase your influence when you’re engaged in these client conversations? Right, these one on one conversations? How do you increase your influence in those conversations,

Nikki Rausch  43:01

one of the ways to increase influences to what I call plant seeds. So that’s really kind of back to creating some curiosity, and tell stories, use examples. You can tell a story very easily and quickly, by the way. So for what you just said about like, oh, having, you know, options. And that’s a good reminder versus them having to go, you know, pick this other like I could tell a story right now I could go you know, this just happened to a client recently where she had one offer when we started working together. By the end of our VIP day, she then had three really easy ways for people to work with her. And within one hour of getting off of our VIP day, she closed one of the brand new offers. And it was because Okay, now she had a little bit more freedom and flexibility. So right so you tell a little story that makes people go like, Oh, I wonder what my offer should be? Or Oh, I wonder if I should go work with Nicki because I want to talk to her about like, I think I only have two offers. And maybe I need a third. Or I’m not sure if my pricing is Right, right. Like whatever that story. So you plant a seed or you tell a story, to give an example bring it to life, because storytelling is the language of the brain. Like there’s tons of data out there about this, that our brains love stories. And we get lost in a story. We tend to find ourselves like we put ourselves in somebody else’s story. And we go, how does that story relate to me? So being able to use story, as a way to build influence allows people to go, oh my gosh, I just heard how they’re tell the story. And now I’m thinking about, gosh, this applies to me in this way, or that doesn’t really apply to me because of this and this, but I wonder if this other thing would apply? Right? Like that’s how our brains work. We love to associate and so by telling stories. This is

Heather Pearce Campbell  44:57

that’s Yeah, I you know, I love The topic of influence, which is why I like this question about how you increase your influence in these conversations. And I think part of it, the storytelling piece I love as well, because I agree our brains either connect with or, or don’t connect with a story that’s being told. And the thing that I love about influences if you’re truly influential, you’re influencing their actions beyond that conversation, right? So they’re either still thinking about that story, still thinking about your business, maybe they’re talking about it with a friend or mentioning it to somebody else, because it was memorable. And if you don’t have stories, or you don’t have a powerful way of delivering those golden nuggets, whatever it is, that is in your field of expertise, it’s not going to be memorable, people are not going to be thinking about it later or still talking about it. So I love that storytelling piece. What do you find tends to be most challenging when people really put their focus on learning sales and doing this well, including your five step process. What What do they still struggle with? What tends to be the most challenging part of either changing past behavior or changing their thought process around? Like really, really adopting an open, you know, willingness to do sales the right way?

Nikki Rausch  46:21

I mean, I think you kind of just answered the question. It’s a mindset thing is mindset is always kind of number one thing. So oftentimes, it’s I spend a lot of time with clients, recognizing like, I’m always looking for, oh, is there a limiting belief in how they just framed that question to me? Or is there a limiting belief in what they’re saying? And can I create some type of a reframe, to do what I call give it a little bit of like, wiggle room, like, so I can help them become open to believing something else, that’s going to make a bigger impact in their business, like one of the biggest limiting beliefs. And I hear this over and over and over again, with clients. And as a matter of fact, I just had a conversation with a client this morning, her one of her limiting beliefs is that she could not take payments. On a first call with somebody, like there had to be a proposal that got sent out a scope of work, and then she could collect payment. So that was a limiting belief. And I identified it very quickly. And today, like during our coaching session, just like, I just want you to know, Nikki, that this morning, before I got on a call with you. It’s the first time I’ve ever asked somebody, like, would you like to go ahead and pay for that now? And guess what they did? Like, yeah, and I hear that all the time from clients. So it’s a mindset thing. And again, it’s just figuring out, what are those things that are getting in their way? Where Where do they have some blind spots, and then my job as the coach is to guide them to look, and you know, and show them, give them some language of, Okay, if you’re willing to try this, see what happens. And oftentimes, when my clients are willing to try to ask for money on that first call, they’re like, somebody just pay me I have a client, who still messages me all the time. She’s like, Nikki, somebody just pay me $5,000. And we only talked for 10 minutes, and they’re so excited to work with me. I would before she was always like, I’m just gonna hire somebody who calls them and collects the payment after we talk. And I was like, No, no, no, no, we’re gonna fix this.

Heather Pearce Campbell  48:36

Oh, my gosh, how many people probably can relate to that, though. Like, I want somebody else to do sales or handle payment or have the money conversation, I think that’s probably really frequent. But what it what a great example, you just shared about how we can literally build How do I word this build our processes in our business around limiting beliefs, right? So this woman was like, Oh, I can’t take payment on the first call. And the process has to look like this like, right, I want everybody who’s listening right now. Like, go look at your process and see where limiting beliefs are influencing how you structured that. That’s really curious. But I mean, it’s so obvious when you think about it, and yet,

Nikki Rausch  49:22

I think we don’t often think about it. And I often because I get this a lot where people go I heard you talk about that people can take money. And that’s not mean I can’t here’s why. Like I so I will say if you’re listening right now and you’re like, Oh, you know, that’s that that works for other people. That would never work for me. Let’s have a conversation because it’s pretty rare that I ever find somebody that I’m like, yeah, you can’t take money on the first guys so rare. It very rarely happens. So you might be the special snowflake but you probably aren’t. And it is a limiting belief you built into your business.

Heather Pearce Campbell  49:59

Yeah. That’s so funny. So one last question. And then I’m going to get to where people can contact you, and you know where they find you online. But you’ve done a lot of speaking, right? You’ve got lots of experience as a speaker, for those that are listening, that are trying to figure out how do I invite people into the next step from stage? Because I think there can be a disconnect at events where you’re talking to, you know, whatever size of audience, but then there’s no follow up, there’s no what comes next? Or you’re not doing it very successfully? Do you have any tips or tricks that you’re willing to share on how to do that? Well, how to book somebody into a disc golf into a call or into a, you know, discovery session, or whatever comes next? How do how do you do that? Well,

Nikki Rausch  50:49

okay, so I’m going to give you a couple things fast, just because I know you asked me one question, but I feel like we could do a whole episode around this. So first and foremost, you’re going to pre frame at the beginning, that there’s a way for people to get more, even if you are at a speaking gig where they’re like you cannot sell from the front of the stage, okay, fine, then give them some way to get something for free from you, they’ve got to opt in for it. So that’s one way because once they’re on your list, you can sell to them, and you absolutely should sell to them. So you’re going to pre frame at the beginning that there’s something coming. And during your talk, you’re going to share stories and you’re going to plant seeds, you’re going to create some curiosity. And when you come off stage, there are going to be people who are going to come up to you and want to talk to you. I want you to be on the lookout for the buying signals right then. And I want you to stop what you’re doing when you get one and invite somebody to the next step. So when I come off the stage, it’s not it’s not uncommon for me to have a line of people who want to talk to me. And if somebody gives me a buying signal, I say, Would you like to schedule a time for us to chat about this further, let’s go ahead and get our calendars out right now get it on our calendars. And then that way we can talk about this. And then I get my calendar out, we schedule the time, and then I can move on in the conversation to other people that are waiting. But if someone or somebody is like, hey, Nikki, I just want to sign up. I want to be a part of your sales Maven society, for instance, I will great. I can sign you up right now. Do you have a credit card?

Heather Pearce Campbell  52:16


Nikki Rausch  52:16

I like that. I take payment, like when I come off stage all the time. So you have to be ready. And people are often like, Oh, no, there’s too many people waiting to talk to me. If they want to talk to you. They’ll Wait, you know, be succinct. Don’t get into like, you know, tell me about your kids. And you know, not all of that be succinct. And be ready to get that next thing scheduled or take that next, you know, take it to whatever that next thing. So that was a big answer. But

Heather Pearce Campbell  52:45

no, I love it. It helps I mean, so that people again, can see the map. And I think so much of this goes back to that information you provided about knowing your structure, like when you are selling and if you’re speaking you’re selling right, yes, having having a plan beforehand. So you know, what you’re going to do when people come up to you afterwards, right? And thinking that out so that you’re not stuck there, you know, taking too long or making decisions that you later regret, if people are standing there giving you those buying signals. So no, I think that was a great answer. So for the folks that are still listening in are like I want to connect with Nicki, I want to find out more about her work, how I could get inside her group or learn from her. Where do you like to show up online.

Nikki Rausch  53:30

The easiest way for us to connect is to allow for me to gift you one of my ebooks is called closing the sale. It’s all about building confidence in the selling process. You can get that by going to my website, which is your sales maven.com. And Maven is ma v n.com. And then Ford slash grit. So this is specific for your listener to go to your sales, maven.com Ford slash grit, and then you’ll get my ebook will be connected, you’ll be a part of the sales Maven community, you’ll get sales tips from me on a regular basis and all that good stuff. And if that’s a little bit too much for you, I’m on LinkedIn and you can also find me on Instagram. Those are kind of the places I hang out.

Heather Pearce Campbell  54:10

The worries that I’m glad you’re a fan of LinkedIn. I’m there too, and I rave about it regularly. You can also find her link to her free gift as well as her social media links at the show notes page which is legal website warrior comm forward slash podcast. Be sure to check that out. And I’m such a personal fan of Nikki. I mean ever since I read your book and I was like, Oh my gosh, everybody in this field needs this book because I just feel like people miss those buying signals. They get sales wrong all the time unless they’ve really worked their way through you know, some expert content like what you put out. So if you’re listening, jump on Nikki’s list and get her free gift check out her books all share whatever she wants me to share, but check out the show notes. Legal website warrior comm forward slash four slash podcast. Nikki what final either takeaway or action Steph, would you like people who are still listening to do today this week?

Nikki Rausch  55:10

The final thing is, make sure that you have a clear invitation for people so they know what the next step is. So never ever be afraid to invite somebody to the next step, something simple like, is that something you’d like more information on? Or is that something we can schedule a call to talk about issue invitations, every step of the way, and you’ll find you’ll, you’ll close more business.

Heather Pearce Campbell  55:34

I love that. And I’m going to go back and put another plug in for your book buying signals because that came through loud and clear in that book, like the how simple it is to provide that clarity if you’ve decided what you’re going to say or what the invitation is. So that’s awesome. Nikki, it’s so it’s been so fun to see you again and connect with you today. I know we covered a lot of ground and there’s still so much more we could cover but maybe I could have you back another time to talk sales again on the podcast. I’d love to talk sales. Thanks for having me. It was nice to see you. Yes, You’re so welcome. We’ll take good care. Enjoy life in Boise and we will connect again soon. Great. Thank you. All right. Thank you.

GGGB Outro  56:15

Thank you for joining us today on the Guts, Grit & Great Business podcast. We hope that we’ve added a little fuel to your tank, some coffee to your cup and pep in your step to keep you moving forward in your own great adventures. For key takeaways, links to any resources mentioned in today’s show and more, see the show notes which can be found at legalwebsitewarrior.com/podcast. Be sure to subscribe to the podcast and if you enjoyed today’s conversation, please give us some stars and a review on Apple podcast, Spotify or wherever you get your podcast so others will find us too. Keep up the great work you are doing in the world and we’ll see you next week.