Guts, Grit & Great Business Podcast
April 27th, 2021
Embracing the Messy Buyer’s Journey
With Trevor Turnbull, CEO of Linked Into Leads, Founder of the transformative Expert Selling programs and Author of the LinkedIn LINCHPIN Method Guide which empowers Certified Coaches & Consultants to “Unapologetically Share Their Gifts” with their future clients using video & “Clone Their Authentic Voice” with virtual assistants. He has served over 26,000 people with his Repeatable, Predictable, Measurable client acquisition system and has shared his story and methods in numerous media publications including Forbes, Entrepreneur, Time Money & Business Insider.
Join us for this conversation on how to slow down and go deeper in order to create bigger impact in your business and get more clients. Contrary to a lot of advice about efficiency, scaling, and doing more faster, Trevor shares with us his recent experience with doing the opposite. We also discuss trends on LinkedIn, including using scripts and multi-step systems leading to a pitch, the power of social networking done the right way, and how Trevor got his start on LinkedIn. Trevor has been teaching his clients how to use LinkedIn for more than a decade as a key strategy for business growth. Listen to Trevor drop some gems about how to create meaningful connection, embracing the concept of the “messy buyer’s journey” (pure gold), and understanding the law of reciprocity.
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Biggest takeaways (or quotes) you don’t want to miss:
- Why you should be using LinkedIn as your key strategy for growth.
- As business owners we tend to overcomplicate things, learning how to get away from this is key.
Check out these highlights:
7:45 How Trevor got started using LinkedIn in business.
19:42 Why the best way to use LinkedIn is to treat it like a networking tool.
25:48 “Now I’m telling people slow down, do less, go deeper.”
38:48 Trevors advice on hiring a VA.
How to get in touch with Trevor
On social media: http://linkedin.com/in/trevorturnbull
FREE GIFT FOR LISTENERS:
Grab a copy of Trevor’s LINCHPIN Method guide here.
Trevor Turnbull is the CEO of Linked Into Leads, Founder of the transformative Expert Selling programs and Author of the LinkedIn LINCHPIN Method guide which empowers Certified Coaches & Consultants to “Unapologetically Share Their Gifts” with their future clients using video & “Clone Their Authentic Voice” with virtual assistants.
He has served over 26,000 people with his Repeatable, Predictable, Measurable client acquisition system and has shared his story and methods in numerous media publications including Forbes, Entrepreneur, Time Money & Business Insider.
You can find more information about Trevor here.
Imperfect Show Notes
We are happy to offer these imperfect show notes to make this podcast more accessible to those who are hearing impaired or those who prefer reading over listening. While we would love to offer more polished show notes, we are currently offering an automated transcription (which likely includes errors, but hopefully will still deliver great value), below.
GGGB Intro 0:00
Coming up today on Guts, Grit and Great Business.
Trevor Turnbull 0:02
The law of reciprocity, and the law of attraction. And you, whatever you call it. There’s something that happens when you just show up and you help people. And the problem is the most people don’t think that it’s strategic enough, I need to figure out a strategy. And I need an automation system as bullshit. Nobody needs that. And I say that confidently now, knowing that you wouldn’t heard me say that a year and a half ago, because I was very in the mind of like, how can we manipulate this tool? How can we use this? How can we do it faster? Now I’m telling people slow down, do less, go deeper. It’s not scalable. There are things that you can certainly outsource once you get comfortable and you have somebody that you trust, but in the meantime, you need clients go be helpful.
GGGB Intro 0:53
The adventure of entrepreneurship and building a life and business you love, preferably at the same time is not for the faint of heart. That’s why Heather Pearce Campbell is bringing you a dose of guts, grit and great business stories that will inspire and motivate you to create what you want in your business and life. Welcome to the Guts, Grit and Great Business™ podcast where endurance is required. Now, here’s your host, The Legal Website Warrior®, Heather Pearce Campbell.
Heather Pearce Campbell 1:24
Welcome. Oh, I’m so excited to be here today. I am Heather Pearce Campbell, The Legal Website Warrior®. I am an attorney and legal coach based here in Seattle, Washington. Welcome to another episode of Guts, Grit, and Great Business. Today. I am welcoming Trevor Turnbull to the show. Welcome, Trevor.
Trevor Turnbull 1:51
Thank you so much, Heather. It’s always a pleasure to chat with you. And it’s been like six months since we last talked on a call like this. So we’re overdue.
Heather Pearce Campbell 2:00
We were overdue. So good to see you. Again. We were just joking that it even though it was a few months, it feels much longer than that.
Trevor Turnbull 2:08
Heather Pearce Campbell 2:09
I’m amazed on what’s been going on. But let’s get to introduce for folks that don’t know Trevor, Trevor and I are paths actually crossed a few years back and Trevor has been a really fun person to know online. We got connected again last year. And that was such a pleasure to be able to participate in your mastermind. So I got Trevor onto my show. I’m super excited to have him here. For those of you that don’t know Trevor Trevor is the CEO of linked into Leeds, founder of the transformative experts selling programs, and author of the LinkedIn linchpin method Guide, which empowers certified coaches and consultants to unapologetically share their gifts with their future clients using video and clone their authentic voice with virtual assistants. He has served over 26,000 people with his repeatable, predictable, measurable client acquisition system, and has shared his story and methods in numerous media publications, including Forbes, entrepreneur, time, money and Business Insider. Trevor, and I know we joke you’re just north of me a ways I feel like I could, you know, I joked I think because you just received my Christmas card Three weeks later than everybody else. And you’re like, you know, you’re Canadian. That’s actually relatively close.
Trevor Turnbull 3:29
Yeah, not too far away. We’re still good. It’s probably a five hour drive from where I am. Now. We were a lot closer before when I lived in Vancouver, but..
Heather Pearce Campbell 3:37
Well, and that’s what I was originally thinking. And then I realized you guys, I think are in the big white area now.
Trevor Turnbull 3:44
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Just outside of Kelowna, we’re in West Kelowna. So on the other side of the lake, and big weights, like 45 minutes away.
Heather Pearce Campbell 3:52
That’s amazing. When did you make that move?
Trevor Turnbull 3:54
About a year and a half ago, we have two boys that are two and now four. So one of them just turned four. And we were living in 1000 Square Foot townhouse in Vancouver, in Burnaby just outside of Vancouver before? Yeah, I could see you going like..
Heather Pearce Campbell 4:10
I’m having a panic attack. 1000 square feet. I’ve got little people in my life too. And, you know, our home doesn’t feel big enough right now in the midst of COVID I feel like we could double in size and be very happy.
Trevor Turnbull 4:23
Yeah, and thank thank God that we made the move before all this stuff had because you know, we got a dog too. And it was a townhouse that was like, had lots of stairs. He had to take the dog out three times a day. I just can’t even imagine being back there right now. But we have so much space now or like on the side of a mountain. It’s in a little column stacks. The kids just go out and play and
Heather Pearce Campbell 4:45
That’s amazing. How did you choose that area?
Trevor Turnbull 4:49
I actually like 15 years ago was the first time that I went to Kelowna. And I said, I’m going to live here one day and it was just kind of one of those things. So for the for people that are watching, listening that aren’t familiar with Canada, if you’re going to live anywhere in this country, you go to the west coast because everywhere else is freakin’ freezing cold. And if you’re gonna live somewhere that doesn’t rain all the time, which I know you understand that and Seattle, you just come a little bit further in from the coast. And where we are is they call it the Okanagan. So it’s like wine and orchard country and lakes. So you get nice hot summers, and you get a winter but it’s not too too cold. So it’s it’s enjoyable. We have ski hills close by kind of like paradise in Canada really like,
Heather Pearce Campbell 5:42
Well, it sounds amazing. We you know, we own property just over the Cascades. And so I’m guessing that you guys are very north of the Poseidon wilderness.
Trevor Turnbull 5:52
Heather Pearce Campbell 5:53
I’m pretty sure. Because it is it’s the dry side of the mountains. And it’s amazing weather. It does. I mean, it does get some snow and stuff in the winter. But we go there all the time. And it’s just extraordinary. Yeah. Beautiful.
Trevor Turnbull 6:08
Yeah, for sure.
Heather Pearce Campbell 6:10
Well, that’s awesome. I’m so glad you guys are doing well. And in a beautiful area. I will say the one I’ve been to big white one time. And it was early in my law career. I was working. I was an independent contractor. I mostly had my own clients. But I worked with some firms in town at the time. And one of them that I was working for had a big project and he wanted to fly his whole team to big white for like a celebratory weekend, I had to write a brief and I was sick as a dog. But I still went. And the funny thing is we had to he had rented two small planes to take this group. It was so cold and it was a winter storm. One of the planes couldn’t get there the windshield kept icing over and they could not de ice it fast enough. So it actually had to turn around and take people back to Seattle. It was a freaky flight. I will say that the the plane I was on I just had to be like not watching what was going on. It was one of these like, just cover my eyes and ears. Wow, there okay. Yeah, but it was a phenomenally beautiful spot.
Trevor Turnbull 7:16
Yeah, yeah. Nice. Yeah, get here safely.
Heather Pearce Campbell 7:19
Oh, my gosh, yeah, it was such a relief to climb off that little plane.
Trevor Turnbull 7:23
Heather Pearce Campbell 7:25
Well tell us for folks that are getting to know you tell us how you got started. And first of all, I should I should share a disclaimer that I’m a total fan of LinkedIn. So I’m going to be a little biased in my questions. But how did you become a fan of LinkedIn and basically create this whole business around it? Right?
Trevor Turnbull 7:45
Yeah, well, I’ll give you the Coles notes version. So it doesn’t turn into the 40 minute episode, then we’ll talk about something else. But I. So in 2006, I had a website development company. So I kind of dove into entrepreneurship, after being in sales for like three years, and kind of stumbled my way through launching my first venture like all of us do. And at that time, though, like LinkedIn wasn’t really a thing, like Facebook was barely kind of starting 2006 2007. You know.
Heather Pearce Campbell 8:16
LinkedIn was like a resume holder, right? For the longest time. Yeah. But with us it kind of just as a traditional place to post a resume.
Trevor Turnbull 8:24
Yeah, it certainly wasn’t what it is today, which is more social selling, you know, even a content distribution platform, like a social platform. Right.
Heather Pearce Campbell 8:34
Right. And the people who really use it. Well, today, it’s not at all a resume. It’s very client facing right. Everything is like you’re saying it’s about connecting with the right folks, the social selling and really being outwardly facing not such a traditional platform.
Trevor Turnbull 8:51
Yeah, absolutely. So like 2016 is like, say 2008 2009, it was starting to get legs underneath it. And I was paying attention to it a little bit. But I was more focused on like Twitter and Facebook back then, because that was the hot thing. You know, that’s that’s kind of what people were using. But in 2009, or so I was working with a digital marketing agency based in Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, which is where I’m from. And we had a client that was a professional football team. And they were asking about social media at the time. They’re like, we need somebody to help us with this. Our fans are on it, or our players are on it. We don’t even know what they’re doing on it. Our coaches are on our sponsors are on it. Can you teach us and I was like, yep, I’ll teach you. I had no idea. Like I was just kind of playing with things right. So I dove headfirst into that into the sports world and social media that had led me down a path where I started to discover LinkedIn along the way because I was using it to connect with people along the way. For example, one of the things that I did when I was working with this professional sports team was we created an aggregated website that like pulled all their social feeds into one site. And it was very innovative at the time like this. Every site does this now, but back then it was like very cutting edge. And I used a combination of Twitter and LinkedIn to start reaching out to people in the like media, space sports media. And I started getting responses really fast. And quite honestly, I still remember the day like it’s, it just shocked me how my small little world of the town/city that I lived in just expanded because I started to receive feedback from people that I thought there was never an opportunity to even communicate with them. The one person in particular was this lady named Kathleen Hassert. She’s a people might not know who she is, but she was a sports commentator in NASCAR in the 70s, which is like, groundbreaking, like, imagine a woman. Yeah, a sports commentator. Like she was a pioneer in our space. Right? And, and then she became a media consultant, like working with NCAA Division One athletes to prepare them for being in front of a camera at the age of 18. You know, like, here’s how not to say the wrong thing. So anyways, I reached out to her with the stuff that we were doing. I said, “Do you want to? We’re doing a webinar, would you like to come on as topic expert?” And she was like, “Yes.” And I was like, from that moment, I was like, whoa, okay, this just changed my world. It was almost like I saw 15 years into the future, what it was gonna be like now. And I was like, I’m all in and I quit that job. And I went full in on that stuff. And, and LinkedIn became a huge part of how I built my network. And that’s how I connected with Lewis Howes of course, which Lewis is kind of tied to our story even to so funny. I got to tell that story as a part of this. But um, so yeah, so Louis, and I connected, and because we’re both kind of doing sports, social media stuff. We’re both really heavy, heavily using LinkedIn.
Heather Pearce Campbell 12:02
I was gonna say he had early roots in LinkedIn, it doesn’t surprise me at all that you guys overlap there.
Trevor Turnbull 12:08
Yeah, that was how we ended up connecting was I registered a domain called LinkedIn Fluence, because I was like, I’m gonna create a course on this, what would I call it? LinkedIn Fluence. Once registered, it sat on it for like a year. And then Lewis had the exact same idea. We had never talked before. He googled it saw that I owned the domain reached out to me and said, Hey, man, you want to sell it? And I was like, not really. And I said, but you want to work together. I said, I’ll give it to you. But I want to collaborate together, because I see you’re doing some pretty cool stuff. And he’s like, let’s do it. So we ended up partnering and working together on sports networker, which was a property that he owned, and I did sports, recruiting and taught people how to use LinkedIn and how to get jobs in the sports industry using LinkedIn. He launched LinkedIn influence the first version of that course with a business partner at the time. Long story condensed is Lewis ended up launching his podcast School of greatness and the LinkedIn Fluence course just kind of was falling to the wayside. And it needed somebody to come in and pick it up. So it came full circle where I had this domain and an intention on creating a course. Lewis started it. And then I came in and picked it up. And it’s been kind of a snowball effect since then, it’s just, yeah, consumed my life for the better part of a decade.
Heather Pearce Campbell 13:29
Well, the thing that I love about your story and about LinkedIn is the opportunity that certain platforms have for this real genuine connection. Right? And it’s, it’s why any day of the week, if I’ve got time to spend on social media, I prefer to spend it on LinkedIn, I feel like people there for the most part, that’s not to say because there are definitely some trends that I see there that I don’t like, and lots of spamming that happens nowadays, but I’m sure that can be a whole separate conversation. But for people that use it the right way. And I’ve really tried hard from the time that I got to really know LinkedIn, to use it in a way that creates meaningful connection. And it’s been so fabulous. I’ve just met the most interesting people through LinkedIn that and I joke like I was a old fashioned Rolodex person, like I’d be like, yeah, put me in your Rolodex. Like if you need some cards, call me. Yes. Like, think of me as a real person that, you know, is it a little whatever library your Rolodex on your desk, like not just an online connection, because those so often fall to the wayside?
Trevor Turnbull 14:38
Yeah, for sure. I think it’s one of the first places that people turn to especially now like if we fast forward to where we are in this current reality 21 anybody that’s maybe resisted, like social media, if they if they hit a point where they’re like, especially now where they’re like, why can’t go to conferences, and go to network. events I can’t even go to my breakfast social anymore.
Heather Pearce Campbell 15:03
Right? I can’t go to coffee all the things I get go to.
Trevor Turnbull 15:06
Yeah, and the things that used to generate them business because it was face time it, was like connecting with people I had I shaking hands went away. So what we saw in the last year was slowly people were like, well go back to normal. Oh, shit, it’s not going back to normal. Oh, my God, all my leads just straight up. Oh, wow, I have no clients, should I shut down my business? Or should I finally figure out how to digitize my business and network online. And the first place they turn is always LinkedIn, because that’s the business networking platform. Right. But to your point, what that did, and this is always the trend, this isn’t anything new is that once it becomes mainstream, it all it becomes less effective. And, and marketers once they start teaching people how to use something and do it effectively, they ruin platforms. And I’m not saying LinkedIn is ruined yet. But you already alluded to it that there’s trends towards excessive spamming and just people not using it for what the intention of it was, which is to network, right?
Heather Pearce Campbell 16:15
Well, and you and I could probably you for sure. But I would be very happy to help could teach a class on what to watch for, like how to distinguish between somebody who’s using it the right way, and somebody who’s not because I think in the initial days, like people can tend to just accept connections from anybody or, you know, not not recognize when they’re actually getting one of the messages that comes from one of these mass mailing type of robots or whatever. Yeah, and all it takes is if you’re on there often enough, you see those trends, like I think five times in a week, I got the exact same connection message, literally. And it’s just like, Huh, no, this isn’t gonna work. For me, this is not a real person sitting behind their profile actually wanting this connection.
Trevor Turnbull 17:01
Yeah. Well, and this is like, before we hopped on and hit record on this, we were saying what direction should we take this call, we’re like, let’s just see where it goes. But honestly, the last three weeks, the first three weeks of 2021. Here, I’ve had this kind of this moment where I had to take a step back. Because every time these kinds of things happen, like I’ve been teaching how to use this platform, the better part of a decade, you know, and especially the last year or two people are really paying attention. Like I’ve got a lot of people that listen to what I have to say. And it’s a double edged sword. Because one, it’s like, it’s amazing that I have people that listen to what I have to say like, that’s, that’s incredible. The downside is, is that when everybody listens to the advice that I have, they all go and do the same thing. And then all of a sudden, it’s just not effective. When it comes to what we used to teach that is, which is those scripts you were talking about, like that used to work very effectively. And then everybody started doing it. And you can see the script and the pitch coming a mile away. And then people just ignore it. Yes. All right.
Heather Pearce Campbell 18:11
Well, you know, and the interesting thing about this, because I’ve had, I’ve had conversations on LinkedIn with some of my connections, where, you know, like, one of my friends is like, no, Hell no, don’t invite me into a phone call the first time you connect. And that’s exactly what I do. I’m not interested in following a five step system to get somebody to slowly Oh, like, I let them No, like here, I’m here to know you and support you. I’d love to know what you’re up to and what your business is about. I’m a super connector, I really enjoy connecting with people if you want to, I’d love to jump on a call and learn more about your business. I don’t say anything about me, except that I like to connect and help people connect resources and connect the dots in their business. Yeah. But the reality is the number of people that say yes to that, well, it might be low, they end up being awesome. They are connectors, like they’ve gone through this mini filtration system where they read my message, they say yes, they get on a phone, by the time we’re connecting. That person is either going to become a client, a referral partner, or somebody who now knows me in the marketplace, and generally within the next three to six months is going to send me somebody Yeah. Like inevitably. And it to me like LinkedIn has been so valuable. But I’m really clear on how I prefer to use it. And I don’t follow everybody else’s system. Like I do it in the way that I want to do it. But I end up connecting with the people that I feel like are really good connections for me.
Trevor Turnbull 19:42
Yeah, yeah. And I think there’s a couple of key components to that. One is you know, that the best way to leverage the platform is to treat it like a networking tool. So, you know, before all this stuff existed, and I use this in examples in webinars and whenever I’m doing you know, podcast interviews and stuff, too. I always paint the picture of you remember what it was like before all this stuff existed? Like, go back, you know, it wasn’t that long ago. It’s like 10 years ago, 1215 years ago, where you had to go to the breakfast events.
Heather Pearce Campbell 20:17
In LA, that’s right, you had to go to all the luncheons, you had to go to the award ceremony, like you had to do the things.
Trevor Turnbull 20:24
Yep. And the key elements of that, and I still remember it too, because for the first handful of years in my career, I hated it. Like it was painful, I get up at five in the morning and where I was from, like, it was damn cold in the winter. So be like minus 30. And you driving across the city. But you did it and you showed up and you do you were consistent with it, right. And then the other part of it too, and those live networking events was most of the time you have an opportunity to stand up and go, this swam, this is what I do. And this who I’d like to meet, or whatever the case was, right? It was your elevator pitch. We were practicing it back then. And the bit the people that were most successful at networking, they showed up to serve First they were like, how can I help you? They listened and they went, I need to introduce you to so and so no expectation of anything in return. And that’s what you’re talking about.
Heather Pearce Campbell 21:16
That’s exactly what I’m talking about. I never talked about my business. My work, I asked him, What are you looking for what would be most helpful and I immediately connect them to somebody I know a resource I have whatever. And you know, it’s not like some tricky thing. It’s like, if you’ve ever read How to Win Friends and Influence People, it’s like getting back to the basics. Remember somebody’s name, treat them like a person? How would you have a conversation with this person in real life? You wouldn’t be shoving your latest articles in their face, you know?
Trevor Turnbull 21:49
Yeah. Yeah. And there’s, there’s a part of LinkedIn that does, you know, it allows for that, like for content distribution and, and for somebody to look at your profile and go, who’s this Heather? And why is she trying to book a call with me down the rabbit hole, see content, look at a video go, Oh, this person’s legit. Like, they’re not just this spammer trying to sell me cryptocurrency, you know, like, so that all plays a part of it. And I talk about that a lot in my contents about just the buyers journey. And the fact that it’s messy. And like that article that I wrote, like two years ago about the messy buyers journey, it landed so well for people because it just speaks to the idea of, we want this perfect path of like, I’m going to go prospect for business and land new clients, and it’s going to be I’m going to send a connection request, they’re gonna accept it, invite them to a phone call, I’m going to pitch them and I’m gonna have a client. Come on, man, it does not work like that, you’re going to reach out to 50 people, and even if you’re genuine, like you’re talking about, most of them are not going to respond to you.
Heather Pearce Campbell 23:00
For every I’ve done the numbers for every 100. And let’s be clear that for every 100 messages that I send, very similar but very much outward facing, I might get five, they say yes, let’s jump on a call. And they’re gonna be connectors like me, they’re really interested in doing business. They want people to know about their work, they want to be connected. But I will get a an even number to that that may not say yes to the call, but they’ll be like, I’ve really love your message. I really love the way that you connect, you know, and so they’re not, they’re not offended by what I’m doing. Yeah, I’m not shoving like here, go to my website, read my blog post or whatever. And I just find that and maybe it’s just because I always have been the person that really loves connecting with people in person. I miss it as a mom, right, you know, as a parent, especially during COVID. working from home, but I felt a dramatic loss. When I set up a home office and had little people in my life, like you just no longer have the ability to meet face to face with people like you normally would. And yeah, well, networking often has kind of a bad rap. Right? You know, you kind of rolled your eyes earlier when you’re like, Oh, I have to go to another networking thing.
Trevor Turnbull 24:16
Yeah, the reality is those always brought so much joy for me. And they did for me too. As soon as I started to figure that out. Like, I didn’t become really good at networking and selling until I had mentors that I was able to see like, Oh, they show up consistently. They have conversations that are always inquisitive and curious asking questions, figuring out how can they pull pieces together and it was typically never about what they sell. It was like So what’s going on? Ah, you know what, by HR gal just quit right now. Whoo, I got to connect you to so and so because they might be great. Like just that stuff, right? And this is where we were talking about before. We got on but like, the law of reciprocity, and the law of attraction, and the whatever you call it, there is something that happens when you just show up and you help people. That’s right. And the problem is, most people don’t think that it’s strategic enough, I need to figure out a strategy. And I need an automation system. Ah, that’s bullshit. Nobody needs that. And I say that confidently now, knowing that you wouldn’t heard me say that a year and a half ago, because I was very, in the mind of like, how can we manipulate this tool? How can we use this? How can we do it faster? Now I’m telling people slow down, do less, go deeper. It’s not scalable. There are things that you can certainly outsource once you get comfortable, and you have somebody that you trust, but in the meantime, you need clients. Go be helpful. Hmm, that’s my, that’s my advice.
Heather Pearce Campbell 25:52
Mic drop. No, but really what you just said, slow down, like, go deeper. It’s not scalable, you need to meet but this is how you create a client. Like, as one example, last year, I went COVID hit, I thought, Oh, my gosh, and the weird thing is, I had this experience of going going to a small business conference down in San Diego, the end of February. Right. So COVID is like literally, you know, coming over the mountain at us, whatever. Yeah, like it’s looming. I knew like, Oh, my gosh, this huge tidal wave is about to hit everybody here. And nobody’s talking about it. Nobody is talking about how our lives are going to change. And, and I, I tend to be a very intuitive person, but I just felt this like, inner kind of heaviness and weight, right. And I knew as soon as this conference is over, like the world is changing. And sure enough, I came home to Seattle, like February 27. And we’d had the first case of COVID hadn’t really hit the news yet. And then it spread. And then we had all of the assisted living homes and nursing facilities. But I mean, it was devastating. So March one, literally, like a couple days after getting home from that trip, I pull my little man out of school, like we go into hardcore lockdown. 10 days later, you know, all of this is happening. What I decided to do, because I was like, crap, there are gonna be so many people caught unaware, I was just at a conference with people that I think are pretty aware. And they’re not even talking about this. And so for folks that are not yet online, who are not doing what they should have been doing all along to nert. Like, they need to get there. And so I didn’t know what to do. I just decided like, I’m going to go live, every Monday. If they’re on my list, they’re going to get an invite, and I will just show up and help them with whatever they want to ask about. Right. And I did it consistently every Monday except for a couple holidays. Last year, and it was so rewarding. It was but your your concept of the messy buyers journey. It also was a massive reinforcement of that, right?
Trevor Turnbull 28:04
Yeah. And that was just kind of the tip of the iceberg on that, like, essentially, the reason why it doesn’t work the way that most people think it well, when you start looking at LinkedIn as like a prospecting tool is that people have their guard up right now. Like they don’t, they don’t they don’t receive messaging well, because there’s so much negativity or just push in the wrong direction. Yeah.
Heather Pearce Campbell 28:27
And there’s so much they have to filter through this is the other challenge I think we all face with being online is that unless they can connect to you or to me and actually have a conversation where they go, Oh, okay, this person is going to treat me like a person, they’re going to take care, like, they’re what I have found is that people even in my world have to show up, and they have to show up again, and they might have shown up to five or six of those calls last year before they buy something. Yeah, you know, and and they needed to have their fears assuage. And they needed to understand that their needs would be met, and they needed to have more clarity about their path. And that doesn’t happen in a one off interaction online through a digital format.
Trevor Turnbull 29:10
No, it doesn’t send the the nice part about what LinkedIn allows us to do, though, is that you can essentially help shape the journey that somebody does go down though, by you know, having a well optimized profile. And you know, when I say that people go, what does that mean? You know, it’s really simple. It’s like, treated like if somebody was to step into your office for the first time, what do you want it to look like number one, you know, your photo, your background, like just make it look good. Number two, though, is to actually have language on your like headline and your about section and your featured area and stuff. It’s actually helpful that like, guides people down a path and like, resonates with them where they’re like, yeah, that’s me. Oh, yeah, I can relate to that. Boy, I’ve got that problem, too. What’s the solution? Oh, you got a guide book. Cool. Like Now they’re down this path, right? And this is the messy buyers journey is that I keep I always talk about like, so you reach out to people, especially if it’s like brand new people you’ve never met before. Reach out to connect, most of them go Who the hell’s this? What are you trying to sell me? The ones that do go, Okay, all right, and they dive in a little further, they’re gonna look at things, maybe they will see a video and they’re like, Oh, go check this out, they watch the video. And then at the end, it’s a YouTube video and they see some baby laughing or some cat video or something and they’re gone. They forget about you. And that’s the messy buyer’s journey, it starts this pattern of like, Okay, so then the next step is if you don’t follow up or stay top of mind and keep creating content, they’re never going to come back into your world.
Heather Pearce Campbell 30:43
No, and you look at the statistics now where it used to be, however, however many touch points, you needed to actually create a client now it’s like 17, or 21, or some insanely high number, right? They have to be able to connect with you enough times that there is the at least the start of literally a relationship. They relate to you in some way to be able to then take the next step and say yes.
Trevor Turnbull 31:09
Yeah, and that’s where there’s multiple pieces to your marketing and prospecting and client acquisition strategy that you need to do. It’s like this what you’re doing here, like, you put together a podcast, but it’s also an interview that’s on video that can be repurposed into YouTube that can be chopped up into pieces and float on LinkedIn and transcribed and I’m sure I’m gonna say something that’s like what you already said, like, well, Mic drop, like, you could pull that 10 second clip, and it becomes a quote, graphic, like, these are all the things that can lead for lead a person down a buyer’s journey. And it’s really quite simple. Once you take the leap, and you just go do it, you know, but most of the people that I serve, they sit in a state of paralysis, because they overthink things. They’re really good at what they do as leadership coaches and change management agents and whatever else, you know.
Heather Pearce Campbell 32:08
Technicians, we’re all technicians in our little bubble, right?
Trevor Turnbull 32:12
Yeah. But they’re not marketers. And they’re not salespeople, and they view sales as an bad thing. And then it’s a mindset thing. And like, it’s, it’s so predictable. Like, it’s it’s. And it’s also inspiring, though, too, because I know that I can help those people. And that’s why I stay motivated to do what I do is like, I see them and I’m like, Yeah, I’ve been you. It’s been 15 years ago, but I know exactly where you are. I know all those fears you have right now,
Heather Pearce Campbell 32:42
It’s so interesting, because I connected with a woman this week, and she’s up to some pretty cool things. But she said, she asked me to describe what I do, and she was like, but the people that you serve, don’t want a business. They don’t think of themselves as a business. And it was kind of this like lightbulb moment I was like they don’t want was, she’s like, they just want to speak or they want to write and they want to make all the money and have all the benefits, but they don’t want to actually build a business. And I was like, Oh, this is fascinating. But it’s kind of true, right? And I thought how do you talk to those people about what they really need to build in? It’s like what you’re saying now they’re, they’re not markers, they don’t want to do they want to do what they’re really primed, and, you know, skilled at doing and I think this is the part of the business journey that can really bog people down is like, what now I have to go become an expert in sales. And now I have to go become an expert in marketing. And now you know, all the ABC and XYZ is a business.
Trevor Turnbull 33:45
It gets overwhelming. There’s no doubt and there’s the acceleration of technology and what’s in front of us and what you should be doing. It causes a state of paralysis and a lot of people because they there’s no way you can do everything. Let’s just say it for what it is. You know like right now most recently in the last month there’s clubhouse, which is a new brand new social platform.
Heather Pearce Campbell 34:14
Oh my gosh, talk about a rabbit hole.
Trevor Turnbull 34:17
Yeah, I have no idea even exactly what it is. It’s all third party to me because I don’t have an iPhone and thankfully like, but I wouldn’t even do that to myself anyways, like I’m, I’m I’m very disciplined now to make sure that I stay very focused, you know, that’s not to say there’s not value in that platform. But this is what I realized that many entrepreneurs are up against is they see the established base of like, there’s Twitter, there’s Facebook, there’s Instagram, there’s LinkedIn, there’s a handful of others that may be relevant and stuff. Then there’s these new things should I go over there? So I spend time before you know what you spend all day just listening to stuff, consume, consume, consume, consume. Like you said, you don’t have a business, it’s a hobby, because you’re not making any money. And it’s so anyways, I think from your perspective, like, it’s a matter of speaking to the right people even to right, the ones that are already established, they know that, like, there’s a difference between being a speaker and a coach and having a business where you are a speaker or coach, there is a big difference.
Heather Pearce Campbell 35:25
Well, there is a big difference. And the struggle that I have is I want so badly to help those people that are even in the beginning phases of business, really build something that’s going to be successful for them, like really build something that’s going to allow them to have the influence and stuff that they want. And to do that your commitment level has to be so much higher, right? I mean, and I, you know, I’m talking to myself as well, right in the midst of COVID, like, the levels of overwhelm, we’ll just say, have been high at certain points. And like, end of December, I lost my VA, who was doing 20 hours a week of work in my business, like, you know, that’s the most I’ve ever had a VA plugged into my systems and everything that I’m doing, and she’s a mom of four little boys full time at home during cut, you know, it just was not sustainable for her. And that, like, you know, even growing beyond the systems that run themselves, but obviously, I need a certain level of support, even just trying to find a replacement has been a real challenge, right. So some of those early struggles that really require growth and pushing through hurdles, I think, easily keep people stuck.
Trevor Turnbull 36:39
For sure. And I think this is why it’s so great that you’re doing a podcast and you’re showing up on a Monday and doing lives and like I shared with you that I’m going to do a podcast here soon, too. Yeah, and, and, and I’m just showing up as well and creating cause I’ve rearranged my schedule here in 2021. to free up my time to be more flexible with my content creation and, and to be able to do more of like the calls that you’re talking about. Because I can tell you in the last three months of the year, connecting with some people that were super connectors, because I don’t necessarily see myself as a super connector, I’m still building that muscle a little bit. But I have connected with some people that are like, you got to meet this person and this person, this person, this person, by the way, I already introduced you like, that’s a cause like that, where you I’ve had like this tightness in my chest, we’re overwhelmed. Yeah, like, how am I gonna find the time to meet with these people? And then I’m like, Okay, fine. Like, I trust this person that they’re going to introduce me to somebody, you know, that I should be? Yep, every one of those meetings, I walk away where I’m like, Whoa, what an amazing person, we will do something together, it might just be that we’ll meet up somewhere and our kids will play while we go surfing. And it might be that we’ll do a multimillion dollar deal. But they’re just the kind of people I want to surround myself with, you know, so I’m freeing my space up to let more of those people in. That’s really what I, what the last three weeks did for me is like, I need to clear my schedule to make more time for the things that fill my cup.
Heather Pearce Campbell 38:14
And I love that well. And that’s a perfect segue because I wanted to ask you, because we touched on it earlier. What is different for you now, right? What are you doing differently? What trends are you seeing that have evolved and that are shaping people right now in a way that’s positive? I don’t want to get stuck talking about some of the negative trends. But I love that I love you know, freeing up your schedule, going deeper, slowing down anything else that you have applied specifically to either your personal life or your business that you’re doing right now?
Trevor Turnbull 38:48
Yeah, a big part of it. And you already just mentioned it. And I know you and I just had some brief kind of conversations back and forth about it. But like, I’ve worked with virtual assistants now for almost 10 years, I would say, you know, I kind of I’ve had little blips of it, right. Like, at first I was like, virtual assistants, this is the thing like, and then I didn’t know, like, Oh my god, that didn’t work. Like, why don’t they 20 is what’s wrong with these people, you know, and then I, you know, then I went through a phase where I was like, very effective and working with them, but maybe didn’t build the systems and the processes slps and stuff. So when like what you’ve gone through recently, which it sucks, like, you know, you get to a point where you’re like, well, now I either got to do it, or I got to step back and I got to go and properly build out these things. So that if this does happen again, it’s not such a big hit to your time, you know.
Heather Pearce Campbell 39:44
Well, and the good part is I have all of the systems documented like I’ve been very good about like somebody else could literally step into the system but even finding the right somebody else like that’s careful work. That is not something thing that you can just like, throw a dart at the wall and hope it works.
Trevor Turnbull 40:04
Yeah. And that’s what I was gonna say is that’s the area that I’m really committed to spending a lot of time in this year, not only for me, because I know that there’s so many things I can bolt on to support me. But what I like the last year, what it did for me is it gave me a reflection points of all kinds of things of like, what’s working, what’s not, how do people react when you coach this way? If you put them in a group of six versus a group of 30? Is there a different dynamic like all these things? And one of the biggest things that I realized was that every single solopreneur should have an executive assistant, a virtual assistant. And what this COVID and the lockdown, and everything did was we went from 5 million to 300 million people using zoom in a month.
Heather Pearce Campbell 40:52
Trevor Turnbull 40:54
And the world got smaller. And the biggest thing that I think that I’ve, that’s really hit me in the last couple of weeks, Heather, more than anything is like this, I don’t know how else to say it would have the same kind of impact. But I started to actually see my va’s as real people thought that I didn’t before, but now I looked at it. I was like, like these people, I help them put their kids through school, I help them buy houses, like I need to do a better job getting to know these people on a personal level. So I’ve been doing that like and this is going back to like, how do you find the right va? Well, one, you don’t just look at the price and find some database and throw a job at like, I really want somebody that’s going to integrate into your business, you find screen hire train the same way that you would, yeah, somebody that is your right hand person, your VP sales, your HR director, like treat it like a business. Mm hmm. And also realize that you’re dealing with a human being, you know, like it sounds and want that to sound like I never thought of it that way before. But it just really hit me recently where I was like, if I treat these people like, like family, like, like, they’re a part of my, you know, future vision, they will go through the wall for me, and I will want to live their lives like they could never have imagined to. And that’s very fulfilling, you know, and I want to help other people do that.
Heather Pearce Campbell 42:30
Yes. And I love Love, love that you said that. Because I do feel like there’s this competing, they’re competing philosophies around hiring and getting support built into our business, right, because even the Michael Gerber, I mean, I’ve got like eight of those books over there on my show, like God approaches higher the lowest common denominator and plugged them into systems, right, you don’t want to be reliant on any one person in your business. And while I get that, and especially if you’re developing franchises, and literally everything is based on systems, like I think that the concept is important. But what you’ve just said, like, I went through, you know, I talked about spending a couple of weeks at the start of this year, like literally just crying at the drop of a hat about anything.
Trevor Turnbull 43:16
I will say it, maybe not at the drop of a hat, but I had a few moments where I was like, why am I on this earth?
Heather Pearce Campbell 43:23
Just heavy, really big, heavy stuff. And I think part of it is just honestly the sheer exhaustion of parenting and working during COVID. And, you know, we’ve talked about kiddos and I’m pretty open about our life. And you know, and I just really believe in being direct and not not pretending everything’s rosy when it’s not rosy, right. I don’t do that very well. But you know, we’ve got a special needs little kiddo. And he just really struggling during code. Like there’s just so much and as a mom and as somebody who just loves people so much like my heart has often hurt a lot during this period. And so and then, you know, my goodness with the events at the start of this year, like I just there was so much I totally just wanted to check out I just wanted to check out of all of it. I’m like, Where is the rubber room? Where can I go lock myself in a cabin in the mountains away from literally every living person? Right, just to breathe? Yeah, yeah. Anyways, but and part of it was also looking at my numbers from last year, like how freaking hard I worked. And the reality is that to keep my business going, I had to plug in a lot more help than I’d had in years past which is good for a lot of reasons. I really love getting better at that. But what it meant is my bottom line got skinny down in a way that I didn’t appreciate until I was at the end of the year looking at everything in total. But it hit me what you just said is like, you know what, one thing I can feel good about is that Yeah, well my bottom line got a little skinny down I was able to pay so much money into other people’s economic engines. Yeah, that I can feel really good about. Because, you know, even my VA when we bumped her up to 20 hours a week, and you know, and I intentionally there were weeks where she’s like, Well, do you have enough and I’m like, whatever, you’re, we’re just gonna make it work, we’ll find things or I’ll just pay you 20 hours anyways. And it, you know, it makes a difference. And this piece about really paying attention to the people that we support and looking at them as people, you know, contrary to the Michael Gerber lowest common denominator, just putting like, yes, have systems and treat people like real people. And I think it’s, it’s a magical combination, but it can also make replacement very hard when you’ve lost somebody in a system like that.
Trevor Turnbull 45:51
Yeah, for sure. It’s definitely demanding that we get very specific with how we document everything that we do in our business and, and even how we manage our time. Yeah, like, I know, one of the things that was a real, I don’t want to say struggle, but we had to kind of work or stumble our way through it, is how to effectively do meetings on a daily basis and a weekly basis and create a cadence between different team members that we’re doing different things. Because we get this fatigue from just being on video calls and sitting in the same damn chair every day and not getting up and going to the water cooler and talking about the hockey game or the football game, or just whatever, you know, like, there, it just flipped our world upside down. So I think we’re all going to look back on 2020. And at least I hope most people look back on it and say, Wow, what a blessing that deer was, you know, even though it was challenging, because what do you said, I don’t think there’s anybody on the planet that hasn’t felt that heaviness that you were talking about Heather. So let’s just acknowledge it and go, okay, the world just went through a major, major shift. And it had to, and here we are, and we’re probably not even on the other side of what it is. It’s this is all, you know, personal opinion.
Heather Pearce Campbell 47:16
It’s transforming all of us.
Trevor Turnbull 47:18
100% Yeah, yeah. And I think the people that are able to adapt to the new reality, and to make it work for them, not try and hope that the old way goes back. That’s who will come out happy on the other side of this. Yeah. And thriving, you know, yeah, this And personally.
Heather Pearce Campbell 47:39
One of my latest affirmations, I’m just gonna show this to you. I got it right. I was like, the other day, I was definitely not feeling like I was thriving. And I’m like, I got to turn this ship around.
Trevor Turnbull 47:53
Yeah, I can’t, I can’t pull my sticker off my computer, I won’t be able to get stuck again. But I put a little stickers all around my computer. Mine says be accountable to your greatest self. It was something that I put there because I realized that like when you when you work solo independently, and there’s just so remote all the time. It’s hard to lean on other people to keep you accountable, you got to find the strength within to actually do it yourself. And that could take shape of a lot of things like back to the LinkedIn stuff. It might mean committing an hour a day to show up and just add value. And what does that look like? It’s like, go to somebody’s content, like it, comment on it, share it once a week, said just build a routine, the habit to just go do it. block off an hour every week to do cool conversations like this. And intentionally make the space for it, you know, totally that that can change people’s lives. There’s no doubt.
Heather Pearce Campbell 48:50
Well, and the thing I love that I mean, one obviously about being intentional about whatever we are. Choosing to spend our time on right is huge and transforms everything. But the other thing I’ve been telling myself lately, like I don’t have to change everything. I don’t have to improve everything today. But going back to the you know, the 1% rule. Like what if I’m just 1% better in one of the things that I’m doing or what you know, like making small changes, but have those be cumulative because I think it makes it feel so much easier to like approach it as I’m not climbing the entire mountain today. I’m just walking a few steps.
Trevor Turnbull 49:30
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. It seems more achievable. Total, those little notes that you showed make a huge difference to I know that was what kind of reconnected us after a number of years was the mastermind that I threw together that was really focused around. Well, it was kind of like trying to figure out exactly what it was gonna be. It was a little all over the place. But there was a heavy components on just having the conversation around. Totally, and it was exactly what we’re talking about here. Which was I reached out to You are a resource a number of other people, I was like, kind of missing just being around cool people and I haven’t gone to any conferences, have you guys want to get together once a week can just hop on a zoom call and talk about stuff. But you’re right.
Heather Pearce Campbell 50:14
And even the simplicity of that connection around a theme or, you know, just really the act of showing up and showing up for each other one thing that I did last year that I really enjoyed as well, do you know, Jay, Fiset?
Trevor Turnbull 50:28
Oh, yeah, yeah.
Heather Pearce Campbell 50:29
So he teaches a thing called wine conversations in cash, right, which is really about having a mini mastermind, just one off right, inviting 10 or 12 people. And he likes, obviously, as any of us would be preferential to do those in person, but he also has an online version that he teaches. And I just, like, I didn’t study, he has like a 52 page manual, I took the bare bones of what he was doing, and just ran with it. And I hosted, you know, a handful of those last year, and they were so enjoyable, bringing people together, just like what you were doing in your mastermind, but for a couple of hours showing up supporting each other, you follow this very specific format. But like 1000s of dollars of business got done, like people made new connections and ended up joining each other’s programs and, you know, supporting each other’s paths. And I just think, you know, even if all you can do is one night a month, something like that in a time like now it’s just it’s so rewarding to be able to connect and have those conversations. So 100% Yes, Trevor? I feel like I could talk to you forever. But I’m not gonna do that to you.
Trevor Turnbull 51:40
Yeah, we’ll continue the conversation on my podcast soon. And in time.
Heather Pearce Campbell 51:45
Well, I’d love that. But for folks that are wanting to connect with you now, where do you like to show up online?
Trevor Turnbull 51:52
I only show up on LinkedIn.
Heather Pearce Campbell 51:55
So that’s the expected.
Trevor Turnbull 51:58
Yeah. Speaking of focus, you know, it was probably a year ago today that I said, I’m not gonna do Facebook anymore. And I was already off Twitter for years. So just Google my name, you’ll find me if you reach out. And connect, just leave a note say that you heard me talking to Heather on this podcast. And that gives a little context. And that’s where the conversation starts is always from there.
Heather Pearce Campbell 52:23
I love that well, and I will share. So I’ll share your LinkedIn page if you want. And for people listening, you can find all this information about Trevor, including any links for him at the show notes page, which is legalwebsitewarrior.com/podcast. Trevor, I know you had an offer, like a free gift or something. I think it’s around the linchpin method, right?
Trevor Turnbull 52:47
Yeah, so I wrote a guidebook back in March, that’s gone through numerous iterations. And it’ll probably go through another major one here shortly. But the beautiful part is, is that it’s actually in a Google Doc format. So what I give away right now, in this guide, if you go in, you know, requested, it’s, you’re going to always have the latest version. That’s awesome. Yeah, it’s essentially a guide to how to build relationships in a way where you become the linchpin to their future success, by sharing your gifts by being unapologetic about what you can bring to them. And knowing that not everybody’s going to want it. But if you approach it from the perspective of vulnerability, empathy, gratitude, and a clear call to action, where there’s a win, win and all scenarios, magical things can happen. And it was one of those things that I wrote on a Sunday where I told my wife, I need to go downstairs and right there. It just like came to me and flowed out. It was like 25 pages in an hour.
Heather Pearce Campbell 53:47
I love that. That sounds great. I know. And the attorney in me is like, Huh, do you have a trademark on the linchpin method? I know.
Trevor Turnbull 53:56
Talk about that. That’s funny.
Heather Pearce Campbell 53:58
I never got a great title. It’s a great title. Like, when when it was listed, I thought, Oh, I need to know more about this.
Trevor Turnbull 54:04
Absolutely. And I’ve actually we should talk about that, Heather, because I’ve been thinking about all aspects of like, my personal brand, and what pieces always come with me through it for eternity. And what pieces are, are not really owned by me anymore, because I sold my business a year ago. And like, there’s always a lot of those considerations, you know, but the linchpin method, there’s no doubt the LinkedIn linchpin method. I’ve had numerous people say to me, like, why like that? Right?
Heather Pearce Campbell 54:32
It’s a good title.
Trevor Turnbull 54:33
Definitely. it lands people, I think, get it.
Heather Pearce Campbell 54:36
Yeah, totally lands. I like it. So if you’re listening, make sure that you check out the linchpin method. I’ll put the link to Trevor’s LinkedIn page. If you’re if you want me to list your website, happy to do that, as well. Trevor, it’s been such a pleasure to reconnect with you any final thoughts that you’d like to leave our listeners with?
Trevor Turnbull 54:55
I think, you know, in the same kind of theme of what we’ve been talking About, I just want to encourage people to get out there and, and help each other. Like, just if you have an expertise in whatever it is, whatever it is, whether it’s legal advice, networking advice, financial advice, you name it, just go help people, and give away your best ideas for free, we have officially crossed into a world where information is so readily available, that if you don’t give away your best ideas for free, you’re gonna be stuck with a whole bunch of real cool stuff behind a gate that nobody will ever see.
Heather Pearce Campbell 55:38
I love that so much what you just said, I think people are so afraid to do that. Yeah. And it’s like, I have a system like a framework that I walk people through, and I give it away in a free training, I present from state stage on this exact same framework, and clients pay me 20 $500, in initial consultation to sit down and go through the same framework that I give away for free.
Trevor Turnbull 56:03
Right? It doesn’t mean that you can’t utilize it in other ways in your business. And so yes, I love that so much. Because I want people not to be afraid to do that. Well, and I try to be an example of that constantly to like I, if you want the latest strategies on what we do with our clients on LinkedIn, just connect with me on LinkedIn, follow my content and download the linchpin method. It’s literally every thing that we do. There’s nothing hidden. Because I know that 90% of people won’t go do the work.
Heather Pearce Campbell 56:33
Right. That’s it. That’s it, they still are going to need help. They’re still gonna need help to execute.
Trevor Turnbull 56:39
Yes. Yeah. And that’s so it’s a brilliant business model. Go. If you if you’re worried about your competition, stealing your ideas, well, just go give it away. And all of a sudden, like, you’re in a position of authority, because you are the person that gave away the brilliant idea. They’re gonna come to you. You’re the proven expert, right? Yeah, that’s Yeah.
Heather Pearce Campbell 56:59
Oh, so many good gems. Trevor. Thank you, again, wishing you a very, oh, I don’t even know the word for 2021. But I love I’m still very attached to your concept of slowing down going deeper. So I love that that’s exactly what I want for you and for us all.
Trevor Turnbull 57:17
Yes. Thank you. I appreciate the time.
Heather Pearce Campbell 57:20
Yeah. So great to see you.
GGGB Outro 57:25
Thank you for joining us today on the Guts, Grit and Great Business™ podcast. We hope that we’ve added a little fuel to your tank, some coffee to your cup and pep in your step to keep you moving forward in your own great adventures. For key takeaways, links to any resources mentioned in today’s show and more, see the show notes which can be found at www.legalwebsitewarrior.com/podcast. Be sure to subscribe to the podcast and if you enjoyed today’s conversation, please give us some stars and a review on Apple podcasts, Spotify or wherever you get your podcast so others will find us too. Keep up the great work you are doing in the world and we’ll see you next week.