With Anke Herrmann, who brings her journey of creativity, passion, linguistics, and business and tech sense to support entrepreneurs around the world to create thriving businesses that they love. Join us as Anke share’s her experience with taking risks, the grit required to move to a new country and start a new business, reaching her breaking point, and how she turned it all around to create a business and life she loves.

We discuss how her unbridled enthusiasm served her, the personal development that the path to creating a successful business requires, and how she now applies her knowledge, passion and creativity in serving her clients in their business building journeys. Be sure to grab her free gift, a digital copy of her book “Taming the Tech Monster, How to Rise Above Tech Frustration and Build Your Business Online With Joy and Confidence.”

Anke is a Passion Coach and Business and Online Tech Mentor, Author of Taming the Tech Monster, and host of the Passion Business Podcast.

>>> Subscribe to Guts, Grit & Great Business on Apple Podcasts

Biggest takeaways (or quotes) you don’t want to miss:

  • The role of endless optimism in taking leaps and staying committed to the entrepreneurial path.
  • Embrace and acknowledge your gifts and bring your whole self to your business, to experience the most fulfillment!
  • How creating business success often requires an upleveling of our skills in personal development, and becoming a better version of ourselves in order to take our business to the next level.

Check out these highlights:

6:30 “That’s what you do in business- you adjust to the marketplace.”

8:00 People need to have their message to sell and close doors. 

11:15 “What I discovered was that I was missing the joy in what I was doing.”

16:15 “The power of body language will change how you close.”

17:54 “When you’re talking to someone, you should know exactly how to articulate what their language is.”

22:30 “When you are speaking virtual- you must have one statement that says you are no ordinary presenter.”

24:50 What too much information in your presentation does to your audience. 

27:35 “My success is based on the fact that I’m just real.”

31:40 “It’s a disservice to your audience if you do not offer them a means by which they can solve their problems.”

32:17 “I’m the same on stage as off stage.”

35:00 Why selling from your own personality traits doesn’t work. 

37:40 The importance of speaking someone’s language. 

41:13 “The biggest thing- people are boring, confusing and inconsistent.” 

49:00 “If you are allowing someone to hijack how you do business, you will be miserable.”

51:40 “Find your voice and you will find your power.”

How to get in touch with Anke Herrmann:

On social media:

Personal profile: https://www.facebook.com/herrmann.anke


Offering a free pdf copy of her book Tame the Tech Monster:

About Anke Herrmann, Passion Coach (Certified Clarity Coach & Mentor), Business & Online Tech Mentor, Podcast host, Author, Dressmaker, and Crazy dog lady.

Originally from Germany, she lived in Australia and the UK before in 2004 she decided to quit her IT job in London to move to Spain and start a sewing business – with nothing but a love for sewing and plenty of enthusiasm.

Today she brings her curiosity, creativity, intuition, plus her analytical mind, business and tech knowledge to the table to help others turn their passion into a business.

She hosts the Passion Business Podcast and helps other launch their own show. She is the author of Taming the Tech Monster: How to Rise Above Tech Frustration and Build Your Business Online With Joy and Confidence, co-author of Revival: Women Embracing Their Super Powers – Volume One, and contributor to The Magnificent Metamorphosis Magazine.

Learn more about Anke here: www.ankeherrmann.com

Imperfect Show Notes

We are happy to offer these imperfect show notes to make this podcast more accessible to those who are hearing impaired or those who prefer reading over listening. While we would love to offer more polished show notes, we are currently offering an automated transcription (which likely includes errors, but hopefully will still deliver great value), below. 

GGGB Intro 0:00
Coming up today on Guts, Grit and Great Business.

Anke Herrmann 0:04
The other part of it was that I thought that my background in linguistics was sort of the thing that had wasted my time until then, you know, it was, and it turned out to be the biggest gift. You know, the fact that I came in from this totally odd angle. And the linguistics background put me in that position in a software project that I could understand the technical part, but then I could talk to clients in a way that they could hear. Right, so it actually worked out the perfect combination. So it wasn’t a hindrance at all. And I think that’s a lot of people feel that when they change careers or start a business that that feeling like you’re a baby, you’re starting from scratch and you never really do.

GGGB Intro 0:59
The adventure of entrepreneurship and building a life and business you love, preferably at the same time is not for the faint of heart. That’s why Heather Pearce Campbell is bringing you a dose of guts, grit and great business stories that will inspire and motivate you to create what you want in your business and life. Welcome to the Guts, Grit and Great Business podcast where endurance is required. Now, here’s your host, The Legal Website Warrior®, Heather Pearce Campbell.

Heather Pearce Campbell 1:32
Okay, welcome. I am Heather Pearce Campbell, The Legal Website Warrior®. I am an attorney and legal coach based here in Seattle, Washington. Welcome to another episode of Guts, Grit, and Great Business. I’m so excited to have my new friend Anke Herman with me. And Anke,I love her specialty. I’m so excited to bring this conversation to people because I can personally attest to it being an area that keeps people stuck. Right, We all have our own journey with technology and but Anke is way more than a tech brain, she, I love her creative side her story involves a lot of creativity. Anke is originally from Germany. She lived in Australia and the UK before deciding to quit her job in London in 2004. To move to Spain and start a sewing business with nothing but love for sewing and plenty of enthusiasm. Today she brings her curiosity, creativity, intuition, plus her analytical mind, business, and tech knowledge to the table to help others turn their passion into a business. She hosts the passion business podcast and helps others launch their own show. She recently published her book teaming the tech monster how to rise above tech frustration and build your business online with joy. And confidence is also co-author of revival women embracing their superpowers Volume One and contributor to the magnificent metamorphosis magazine. Anke is a passionate business coach, certified clarity coach, and mentor. She’s a business and online tech mentor, podcast host, author, dressmaker, and crazy dog lady. I love that so much. I’m also a dog lady. We don’t have our dogs anymore in our life. But I I when we pass other people with dogs, I want to adopt them a home. Anke welcome to my show. I’m so excited to have you here today.

Anke Herrmann 3:40
Thanks so much for having me. I’m excited to be it.

Heather Pearce Campbell 3:43
Yes. And remind me Where are you in the world?

Anke Herrmann 3:46
I’m based in the south of Spain like, the province of Cardiff for anybody who knows.

Heather Pearce Campbell 3:55
So I have visited very northern Spain. San Sebastian spent a while but I, we were mostly in France and then we popped across the border for a day or two and then went back. Well, so talk to me about how you got started. I mean, your path is very interesting. I love you know, your experience in moving. I mean, it sounds like you had a lot of courage to move and relocate and start totally new things. I love that you left an IT job in London to go start a sewing business. Yes, I was in London near that time. Not I mean is a couple of years. I don’t know how long you were in London. A few years? Yeah, no, I was in London. I lived in London for a summer and it would have been 2001.

Anke Herrmann 4:49
Oh, so we could have bumped into each other.

Heather Pearce Campbell 4:55
That’s right, that’s right. So, talk to me about your job in London.

Anke Herrmann 5:00
I stumbled into software development while I was living in Australia. And that was, you know, the late 90s. And you know, that whole, like, how call it a cyber bubble? You know, basically, this was this whole boom of that industry. And I really didn’t have any plans to go to the UK, it was just one of those things that in Australia, it was really like if you had some London experience on your resume that really made your resume. And so the plan was to go to London for six months to a year didn’t even sell my car to start with. And, you know, basically, just get a contract and go back, right and pick up some really cool job in Sydney. That was the plan. And so that’s how I arrived in London. Just really to ride the wave. You know, I’m in one contract turned into another and into another and five years later, you thought Oh, well. life happens as well. You’re busy making other plans. Yeah.

Heather Pearce Campbell 6:04
Oh, my gosh, that’s fascinating. So yeah, what were you doing before getting into it? What was your I guess? What was your entrance into the IT world?

Anke Herrmann 6:13
My entrance into the IT world was pure frustration because I was actually a trained translator, right. So I finished uni, My degree is in translation. And so I went for technical translation because I grew up in East Germany. So my whole upbringing, education or whatever thing, I always had a bit of a technical taste to it. So I moved to Australia with my then-husband, but as you can tell, didn’t last long.

Heather Pearce Campbell 6:43
We all need at least one of those under our belt, I know.

Anke Herrmann 6:46
So it was one of those. You know, you’d call false friends. When you think you talk about the same thing, we use the same words, but you actually understand something totally different. So I moved to Australia with him. And the plan was, Oh, you know, Sydney’s really multicultural. You can just get a job as a translator. Well, Boy, was I wrong, it was difficult to find a job. It was then when I found one, it was probably the most stressful job that I’ve ever had. The worst paid. So was very quickly, it became apparent that I wasn’t going to last like no, it wasn’t, you know what I wanted to do? You know, counting down? I think it’s actually it’s really it really hit me there that counting down the days and the hours to Friday wasn’t how I wanted to live my life.

Heather Pearce Campbell 7:35
Yeah. And Was this the job? I remember. And I don’t know where I found this. But when I was reading up and trying to learn a bit about you, is this a job where you were? Was it a legal translation job where somebody would hand you like a, you know,

Anke Herrmann 7:49
I thought you love that one?

Heather Pearce Campbell 7:51
Yeah, brief or something and be like, please have this done by Monday. And you’re like excuse me?

Anke Herrmann 7:55
Yes, it was. It was a general translation agency. But you know, we had various clients, right. And, yeah, it was that ignorance, like, nobody had a clue what was involved. But everybody somehow thought, you know, copy that cost me much too it. And so, you know, there will always expectations about how long it would take and how much it would cost that had nothing to do with the work involved. So I really knew that well, I wasn’t gonna last there. And so literally, in my frustration, what I did is I sent out my resume kind of anyone, anywhere, anybody who would have it, and not having had any other work experience in Australia made this really hard, you know, because I was out of uni, like, a couple of years. So my resume was pretty kind of slim, anyway. Yeah. And then the only proper job I’d had before the translation agency was back in Germany, I Well, that’s overseas, we don’t really kind of, yeah, we can’t check up on that. We don’t speak German, this is too far away. We don’t care about that it kind of is if it doesn’t exist. So it took a while to find somebody who had an open enough mind to see that just because I haven’t done something before doesn’t mean I can’t do it. Right. I so and I think if you change career if you want to change career, you always need somebody who gives have nothing to prove it yet. You know, and it gives you a chance. Yeah, just take usually takes a while until you find somebody and then the person who gave me that chance was basically a guy who founded a software company. That’s how I ended up in the software company. And I quickly realized that you know, I’m really curious about what are these guys doing? That whole idea, you know, programming for me was like translating without all the exceptions. It was like translating just easier, you know? So that’s how I got into that and I got hooked. pretty quickly, I really enjoyed it. And then colleagues would actually come and say you should take this whatever industry exam, you could get a job in this and I’m like, nah, nah, why? Now? I will, first of all, I wouldn’t, it didn’t even occur to me that I could actually be good enough to do that as a professionally. And the other part I didn’t really, I wasn’t, the idea of working in an all male office didn’t really pull me in, it was like, I don’t really want to have to be twice as good to be half as accepted. But then it was really like, you know, what? The, what’s the worst thing that can happen? You know, either I don’t pass the exam, and the question is solved anyway, I did pass the exam. And then it was like, Well, you know, I can try and go for a job. And if I don’t like it, then I don’t have to keep doing it. And it turned out that all the worries I had about working in this male-dominated industry, like, in my case, one true, like, I never once felt that I had to be better or had to deliver more or any of it, I really never felt that I was, you know, not accepted, or somehow measured differently. So that turned out, you know, was one of those assumptions that fortunately, didn’t come through? And, and, yeah, I really, really enjoyed working in software development.

Heather Pearce Campbell 11:30
That’s fabulous. Well, it’s interesting. I mean, it makes me wonder what experience you’d had in your life. Right? That led you to think a couple things, one that you couldn’t do that work professionally. Right. And maybe it’s just that piece about transitions and not having experience in it before education in it. But then also, like, your experience, probably working in as a translator in the legal industry, even just for certain clients. I mean, I can speak about my experience in the legal world, which is heavily dominated by men. Right. But it’s so interesting that that turned out not to be the case for you like the actual work. Yeah, you know, it was not that way.

Anke Herrmann 12:15
Yeah. And I do remember what made me question whether I would be able to work in there because I thought, you know, I was 29 at the time, and I thought I had too much to catch up with. That was it wasn’t so much that, that I knew I you know, maths will always like, yeah, I’m good at that. Yeah, my thing, you know, that part, like the technical part itself, I didn’t really. I didn’t think that I wasn’t capable, but I thought I had, I was way too behind because I thought the people I would be working with, were the ones who’d been programming video games since they were 14. Right? And I just thought there was so much to catch, I will I won’t have time to ever catch up to what they’re doing.

Heather Pearce Campbell 13:01
Well, and the reason I asked that question is I think a lot of people keep themselves out of even exploring tech for reasons like this, you know, it’s gonna be too hard. I haven’t been in that world. It’s gonna take too much time, too, you know, and for some that experience is True.

Anke Herrmann 13:19
Absolutely. Absolutely. And the other part of it was that I thought that my background in linguistics was sort of the thing that had wasted my time until then, you know, it was, and it turned out to be the biggest gift. You know, the fact that I came in from this totally odd angle. And the linguistics background put me in that position in a software project that I could understand the technical part, but then I could talk to clients in a way that they could hear. Right, so it actually worked out the perfect combination. So it wasn’t a hindrance at all. And I think that’s a lot of people feel that when they change careers or start a business that that feeling like you’re a baby, you start from scratch, and you never really do.

Heather Pearce Campbell 14:20
Right, right. Well, and I’ve said to people, especially because I’ve done a fair amount of mentoring, you know, young attorneys and talked with folks even outside of the legal industry about how, at least my personal belief is that you never, I mean, once you get far enough away from your education or your experiences, I know sometimes you don’t always know how they’re gonna support the next step or lead to the next thing but looking back, you never regret an education. So and, you know, ultimately the dots do connect and each step does build skills towards the next Even if it’s not, I think obviously clear. So. So once you realized, like, you’re actually good at it, right? You could do it. How? Like, how did you talk to me a little bit about how it then became your passion?

Anke Herrmann 15:17
I, well, actually, the fascination was there right from the beginning, like the fact that you could like type something, to get a computer to do something. I found that endlessly fascinating. And I, and I think the more I got into it, the more I could see that it had that perfect mixture between structure and skill, and plenty of room for creativity. And then I didn’t really expect that, but the more I got into it, the more I could see it, and the more I really enjoyed it. Yeah, and, and it was never boring, either. Because every project is different. Every time you know, like, some, and especially I worked for a while in like a company that would offer to build custom solutions for different kinds of clients. You know, so then you get to work in the Sydney casino for, you know, a few months on some project where it was about setting up restaurants, and it was a bank where it was all about home loans. And then I was an insurance company, and it was all kinds of different things. And every time you’ve got to learn in-depth, how they run their business, and what they actually do. And I found that absolutely fascinating. And then build a solution that basically makes their life easier that streamlines their work. So now what happens?

Heather Pearce Campbell 16:42
Yeah, you got to apply your problem-solving skills. But it looks like there’s a time you got out of tech, right, and started doing other things. So talk to us about that period of going into your beginnings of sewing business.

Anke Herrmann 16:57
Yeah, no, I mean, I’ve been sewing as a hobby for as long as I can remember. So that wasn’t anything new. But I remember the moment I knew I was going to leave the IT industry. And that was in the middle of nowhere in this little Andes village in Peru. And it was this tiny village, and they were specializing in carving out little boxes out of pumpkins and sell them to tourists. Like that. The village was famous for that. And so it’s this little old man, you know, you could like you know how you see this photo wrinkly and no teeth, and he had carved out this little box for me. And he explained, you know, what the story what it was, you know, and all of a sudden he turns around this, he took he asked us Do you would you do? And I’m like, boy, well, how am I explaining that? Right? And it was literally like, okay, so I work in the software project, where we build a workflow application for the, you know, it’s like, what the heck, I was really like, if I can’t explain to the simple man what I do. Something isn’t right. And it was really that moment where I thought, I don’t know. I think it’s time to go back to the drawing board. And also I could see the software industry shifting, it was going away from a team of software developers creating software for a client, then all of a sudden, everybody every project needed to be outsourced. You know, everything was outsourcing to India was like the thing. And even though the game they play is really transparent, nobody really cared. So all the opportunities in that industry ended up being in project management. And it’s just not my thing. Like I knew like I’m a creator, I want to have an idea and design a solution and implement that solution to have something tangible at the end, right? and project management just like, for me, it’s chasing, sitting in meetings, chasing milestones. It’s just, it’s just like, I knew that’s not for me, so I could see there was no future. And then I really thought, let’s take a step back. Literally, like if I could have anything if I didn’t have to worry about qualifications, language, people weren’t anything, what would I do? And yeah, I don’t know. I saw myself with a small sewing studio offering custom solutions. And the next thought was, okay, so what exactly is stopping me? And literally was a case of I couldn’t think of anything.

Heather Pearce Campbell 19:49

Anke Herrmann 19:49
Let’s just see what happens. So that was my business plan, basically.

Heather Pearce Campbell 19:56
I love that. backtracking to that moment. Where you could not describe what you did to this man in Peru? What I’m curious what was the feeling you were having? Was it about that work not being meaningful or feeling irrelevant? Because you couldn’t describe it to him? What was it?

Anke Herrmann 20:16
Yeah, it was, it seemed so remove to. Especially I think that same situation probably wouldn’t have happened elsewhere. But then where that connection to the earth to that simple life was really strong. And all of a sudden, my work seems so abstract, though, irrelevant.

Heather Pearce Campbell 20:37

Anke Herrmann 20:38
You know, that I just couldn’t feel it. It was like, I don’t know. It just lacked that sense of. Yeah, sort of good knowledge to solve this. Yeah.

Heather Pearce Campbell 20:48
Wow. So tell us a little bit about your transition into your sewing business. You told us the roots of it. What did you learn when you actually went into the business of sewing?

Anke Herrmann 21:01
Yeah, yeah, I think sometimes I think that enthusiasm and not having an idea actually helped. It made it difficult. But it also made it possible, because there was no feel failure. Right. So that was really the thing. But I actually immediately thought of that when I saw the name of your podcast, and I’m like, Yeah, great. Because in looking back, it always sounds so romantic, right? It sounds like oh, you know, you just move to Spain and started sewing business. But what people usually don’t realize is that it took a year of scratching doors, you know, have done schools, and basically being rejected. And you know, like, Oh, no, we don’t need anybody or Oh, yeah, we could use you if you could work 24 hours without charging, you know, so. And literally looking back, it took over a year before I got, because I didn’t know anybody. You know, looking back, you know, there are a few things I do differently, obviously, but, but it was really that I wouldn’t allow somebody saying no to me, let me let I wouldn’t let that discourage me. And I think that is really the Yeah, that that thing? Well, okay, I don’t expect this to be smooth.

Heather Pearce Campbell 22:31
And that’s the grit part of the equation. Right? So for me the way, the way I distinguish between guts and grit and you hear the word courage thrown around with both of those words, but to me courage or guts, right is, and I’ve said this before in a previous discussion, but it’s really the activation energy required to make that decision. But the grit is what keeps you enduring? What keeps you on the path? You know, picking yourself up after no after? No, after? No.

Anke Herrmann 23:04
Exactly, exactly. And I think the most unexpected lesson was really that it was boy, it was a crash course in personal development, I never realized, right? Because when I looked at what I expected to be challenging, like, okay, would Spanish flamenco dancer even consider getting a dance costume made from this would be German dressmaker, because, you know, I had no formal training interest making. I knew I could do it, but I couldn’t prove it. There we go again. And so I wasn’t sure whether they trust me. But again, that didn’t turn out to be a problem because apparently being German, you know, immediately I got to, I got certain qualities attributed to me without having to prove anything. So immediately, people thought, Oh, she must be good at it. So she must be like, on the craft side, she must mean must be good. Technically, she’s going to be reliable, you know. So all these German traits were attributed to me, but not being able to say no, was what really hit me hard. Because if there was a cultural difference, you know, I’d lived in Germany, Australia, UK, and you know, basically in general, this being Mrs. Nice girl with Yes, as the default answer had never been a problem. And all of a sudden, I found myself in a situation where people would take ruthless advantage of that. So slowly and steadily as my business grew and as I had more and more clients, they wanted more and more, and anytime you do something the next person wanted quicker. The next person wants more than The person wants a cheaper, I saw in it was that constantly building pressure until it really, you know, the kettle exploded eight years later. And yeah, I was literally you know, if you look at the photo, pretty anorexic, you know, was one of those, I don’t know whether the whether there’s a definition for burnout, but I’m pretty sure that was we would have met in the street and you go Hey, how are you going? And I’d be bursting into tears. So really, physically, emotionally? Yeah, I just couldn’t, couldn’t go any further. And, and it was really that moment where At what point? Am I doing? You know, while Yeah, I was grumpy. You know, I thought it was a cultural thing, you know? And I thought it was all a Spanish problem until I realized, well, I can’t be where am I to think I can change a whole culture? How about looking in the mirror?

Heather Pearce Campbell 25:59
And that was eight years. And that was after eight years of being in that sewing business?

Anke Herrmann 26:04
Yep. And it was really a matter of stopping and saying, Well, look, this is what live your dream is I want nothing to do with it. Think of it, I’m absolutely sick of it. But I think in hindsight, unfortunately, it got me right in the middle of the economic crisis, I did look for jobs. And when I saw what was, you know, what people were looking for, and even the job descriptions, the way they were described, were already like, Oh, God, just by the way, you describe what you’re looking for, I would you know, he could be a nightmare to write. And so I thought, well, now let’s just make another dress, right? And, but it was really that moment where I thought, Oh, no, I have to take ownership. And really look that like, hang on, what is it in the moment, I could see through that. My pressure had never come from my demanding Spanish clients. At the moment, I could see my own story play out, because it was never about them wanting something, it was always about me being convinced that say no, would have this like it would be this inevitable chain of horrible consequences, you know, get that get upset, then they will order again, and you know, to a small town, you know, small industry, they kind of they talk behind my back, and the other older friends wouldn’t come and basically say no, had me in my mind had me in the street, like a month. So I told I couldn’t say no. But that was had nothing to do with them. And the moment I saw that, I Oh, God, you know, it’s that, you know, that moment when you realize you’ve been really stupid, but at the same time liberating, because literally, the whole thing changed around like 100, like my experience of it, my clients never knew. But my experience changed around 190 degrees. And it was really that turn around where I thought I can’t be the only one, right, who’s gone out and try and create the business to, you know, live life on my own terms and do something that’s meaningful, and that’s really, you know, fulfilling in that way. But falling into a trap like that, you know, somebody else falls into a different trap for me was the people-pleasing other people have money things Oh, you know, I bought a pea good person and make money that isn’t going to help you charge your clients, you know, other people like, Oh, well, if I’m good enough, you know, you’re going to have trouble finishing handing over things if it’s never good enough and stuff like that. Everybody has their own traps. Right. But yeah, that was really the moment when I thought I want to support anybody I can. Anybody who’s on that path, you know, make that help them have a better chance of actually making it happen.

Heather Pearce Campbell 29:15
So, I mean, it’s, it’s fascinating to me that you’ve reached this point where everything was so hard, you’re in an economic downturn, you’re ready to throw in the towel. But you realize it was about making a different choice that you had a choice. So you stayed in the sewing business?

Anke Herrmann 29:36
For another few years. Yeah.

Heather Pearce Campbell 29:38
And then you added, “How do I help other people through this process”?

Anke Herrmann 29:43
And that was quite a long transition. Yeah, you know, because the sewing business was what was paying the bills. Right. So and while that is the case, you kind of have to keep on your little hamster wheel and I talked about awhile to you No, no, no, I got. And then I thought, well, you know, how people always try to book in a minute. But that’s not that’s about my story. And that can only maybe inspire someone to a certain point, but it isn’t helping them with them on their journey. So I thought, Man, that’s not it. But then yeah, coaches do that. And that’s when I when did coach training and then sort of slowly started to transition, you know, as the coaching, ramped up, the sewing went down. And so that took some time, you know, and then you have to go through your motions, you have your moments of impatience, and it isn’t gonna go fast enough. But what I noticed was that, you know, tech stuff kept creeping in. Like, it wasn’t something that I was kind of consciously seeking out. It was almost, I was looking towards people with some creative passion or some mission, because I noticed quickly, like, it isn’t about a sewing business, I don’t really care what you do, what I do care about it, that you be passionate about it. Right, so and I only really care what the passion is. And so while I was looking initially focused on all these, you know, these creative crafty people, over here, people kept, you know, like, literally bawling. And, you know, can you help me with this? Like, I’m overwhelmed with this website here, but that’s easy. You know, and then people all you know what, I don’t know what microphone. Do I need for like podcast? It’s easy. I can, you know, but it was almost like reluctant until I really saw like, Oh, yeah, you know, it’s such a hurdle for people. Yeah. Especially in the last few months, you know, with everything that’s going on, and everybody all the sudden, Grambling to get their stuff online. And people sort of jumping into this deep water and swallowing water and they’re being sold, solutions that aren’t dried, and they don’t know who to ask, and they don’t know who to trust. And so the more I’ve seen it, and I thought, Oh, well, Isn’t that nice? how it all comes around full circle?

Heather Pearce Campbell 32:23
Right, the technology landscape, I mean, there’s, there’s so much to choose from, there’s so many alternatives, I think it’s super easy for people, especially if they are trying to do some of it themselves, or they’re even just trying to map you know, what do I need? It’s so easy to just hit that moment of overwhelm pretty early in the journey.

Anke Herrmann 32:45
Yes, absolutely.

Heather Pearce Campbell 32:47
Especially if they don’t want to be spending time in tech, especially if that’s not really it. It feels like you know, this half to do not this want to do most people are not just like dying to dig into a bunch of tech, right?

Anke Herrmann 33:01
Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. No people. Yeah. And especially when, when you have so many things to think about. And you know, and people often tell, you know, I want to run workshops, I want to, you know, the last thing they did they want to worry about is API keys, like stripe integration. So it’s just not something that I want to deal with. But what I’ve noticed is that people usually jump to the tech way too soon. It’s as if you think, Oh, I want to build a shelf. Let’s go to the hardware store. And you walk in, it’s like, there’s so much stuff and you don’t even know where to start. And it’s only overwhelming because you don’t even know who to ask. Because if somebody comes and ask you, okay, what shelf do you want? What metal? How big? What do you wanna, you know, how much weight and all the questions you don’t have. And when you don’t have answers for these questions. It means like, well, you’re not really ready to go shopping. And most people, because I think that’s also what’s been sold, you know, get your clients using this tool as if the tool is the thing that gets them there. So it’s and people are, I don’t want to say trick. And a lot of cases the intention is probably good, but they are pointed to the tools way too soon. And all these other questions that need to be thought about before we even look at tools. You know, they always want to make it sound easy, because nobody buys something when they say well, you know, it’s gonna be complex. You know, you can do it, but it isn’t, you know, so everything is quick and easy. Yes, you know, if it’s sold as quick and easy, and it always feels as if well, the complexities like shoved under the carpet. And it makes people feel more stupid in the end because when they actually dive in and think, Oh, Jesus, I don’t get this, this doesn’t feel quick and easy to me. And then they think they’re stupid.

Heather Pearce Campbell 35:07
Well, everybody is in love with their own tool, right? So it’s a little bit like, I joke because I, just a couple months ago, I was at an event with the gentleman who teach people how to have podcasts, and they launched them for them, right. But I remember and I didn’t really know them that well, we were just talking and they were telling me, oh, you need a podcast. And I was like, I do, like, later realizing like, they’re the podcast hammer, right. Everybody’s a podcast nail, and I feel like in the technology world, it’s like not absolutely the same thing, oh, you need this, this will solve your problem. This, you know, and it’s a little bit like seeing a specialist in a medical field. Like, they’re gonna view it through the perspective that they have about all roads leading back to this particular problem and it may not be the case.

Anke Herrmann 35:58
Absolutely. Yeah. It’s a huge problem. And if you didn’t, and I think it also would makes people so reluctant. And so because it makes them feel vulnerable. Because they know, you know, I’m prey here? Because I don’t know. And if you don’t know, you can’t even you don’t even notice you’re being taken for a ride.

Heather Pearce Campbell 36:22
Well, that’s right. And I think the journey, also of saying, and, you know, I’m speaking from the perspective of being a consumer of tech services, like, I, my choice is that I trust this person and make this decision. Or the alternative is that I have to climb this huge mountain myself, just trying to figure out the landscape. And I don’t have time to do that. And I don’t want to do that. Right. And so I think it’s easier to make that risky decision of just going with something than it is to really dig in and try to understand the landscape. And I think it gets people into a lot of trouble.

Anke Herrmann 37:01
Absolutely, yeah, absolutely. I think there’s also what we talked about before, that whole idea of like, I’m a woman, or I’m a certain age where people somehow have that sense that this makes this more difficult, but when you think about it, it’s actually Oh, boy, they’re gonna take me for a ride. I read. I, when I first came, like when I first started the sewing business, I lived in Granada. And it’s a little town and it’s really horrible for driving, right? So having a car is like, it’s really kind of useless there. But I thought to get around this way, it’s really a scooter. But I was not a two-wheel person. I, you know, like I’ve never had. And I really thought it’s the logic like it’s the sensible thing to do. And, okay, buying a scooter, I knew nothing about scooters. But I knew that if I walk into a dealership, being a woman being a foreigner, they’ve got to sell me the oldest stuff they’ve got. So I thought I have to I researched. You know, I researched about the different brands and it was all the different features like whatever wheel size, do I want this? Does this matter to me, doesn’t it? I knew that if I poke in that dealership, I need to know more about these. They do. Because otherwise, you know, but then I did spend that time on it. Because I didn’t want to end up with a school that is reliable.

Heather Pearce Campbell 38:38
Now that’s great, it’s a great example. And I think in certain areas, we’re all more motivated to research or do that homework than others. Tech tends to be one where people are motivated to have it. They want the solution right now. But it’s really hard to invest the time that it takes to understand it ahead of time. So what do you say to people that are at that cusp of needing to make decisions and trying to figure out, who do I trust? How do I approach this? Like, what advice do you have for folks that are in that position?

Anke Herrmann 39:20
Because it’s exactly what’s in there like this is exactly what this is about? Because it is showing them the questions they need to ask by it. And it’s also the things to keep in mind the things to consider. And there’s a whole section about how can you How do you know enough to know to recognize a good specialist when you see one? You know, what questions should they be asking you? Right? And what questions should you be asking and what is it that you need to think about before you even think about worrying about a toy, but and so it’s usually Not what looks like a tech problem is hardly ever is.

Heather Pearce Campbell 40:04
Yes. Well, I, when I train people, because I obviously speak on legal issues, and what I tell people is, you know, and I usually speak to groups of entrepreneurs, like, how many of you thought at the start of your journey, that you are going to have to become a sales expert and a marketing expert and a tech expert, right? Because it turns out that to be in business for yourself, you actually do have to learn a bit about each of those worlds and, and you know a bit about the worlds but a lot about how those worlds apply to your particular business. Right. And the same is true for law. Like you don’t have to go to law school, but you can’t be in business and ignore the law. Just like you can’t ignore having to learn a sales conversation. You can’t ignore having to learn marketing, you can’t ignore tech. Right.

Anke Herrmann 40:58
Exactly. Exactly. And you don’t need to be an expert, as you say, you need to know enough to Yeah, to even to be able to get help and be good Reliant. You know, so it times somebody’s like, Oh, you know, I can you talk to so and so she’s struggling with PrestaShop. Right. And, and then when you look at it, none of PrestaShop fine, is like, you know, like, there was basically someone she saw, like she had people come in, but they weren’t buying, like, sweetheart, that’s not the problem technology that is you connecting to your clients, that is you understand how to build trust online, so that people see your website and trust you enough to pull out the card. You know, like, it’s a totally different issue. And that’s pretty common. People, you know, quickly hide behind the tech and, and think it’s a technical issue, when, and actually I’ve, I’ve had a conversation very much along the lines, what you just said about, especially people who love sewing, it’s very common, they saw the sewing business, because really what they want is they want to sew all day, every day. And then they realize, well, actually sewing is just that tiny little part of it.

Heather Pearce Campbell 42:16
It’s a Michael Gerber, right, the E myth book and all of the books that he writes about, we’re all technicians in our own way. The reason that we come into a business or start a business is that we want to do a particular thing. And it turns out, we don’t know how to run a business and do all these other things. So we have to either learn it or delegate it or whatever. But yeah, yeah, we’re all really technicians. Absolutely.

Anke Herrmann 42:41
Yeah. And you can tell I mean, I’m not the one to say, well, you should do everything yourself. And I’m all by all means delegate. But you also need to know,

Heather Pearce Campbell 42:50
Before you can delegate effectively

Anke Herrmann 42:52
Exactly, you know, you can’t because I think I’m a little ranty article by this, there was somebody who said, like, oh, boy, I wish I could just get some 20, higher, 25 years old and had rollovers and I, oh, you know what this is? This is almost like, like, would you do the same thing with your money? Oh, I just get an account. And you know, you don’t have to be an investment expert. But boy, you need to know enough to know who you can trust with your money. I didn’t exactly the same thing with technology. You can’t, you can’t it’s still it’s your business, you can’t hand over your entire business just because you’re scared of an error message that you don’t write.

Heather Pearce Campbell 43:37
Well, and that issue, I think, what you just spoke about people just wanting to hand over this piece. I mean, I relate to that I went through a painful journey last year trying to hand over a piece of, you know, ownership over my technology, my business, and it didn’t go well. And I think you know, what we all need to do in our businesses. I mean, my perspective on this now is we need to own the map. And we need to hire people and put them into our map. Right, but if we don’t create the map, things are gonna fall apart.

Anke Herrmann 44:09
Yeah, because other people will. It’s your business. It’s like it’s you, you need to take ownership and you are the one who will act in the best interest of your business. Other people will act in the best interests of their business. You know, they can you can’t trust that they will put your needs in front of their own.

Heather Pearce Campbell 44:30
Even if they are I feel like even if they are heavily invested in serving the client, that you still if you haven’t done the investigative work to know what you need and what is going to serve you or at least what you want your client experience to be like or whatever and find solutions for that. You’re still relying on somebody else’s vision that you don’t entirely understand. And that may exactly a fit for your business.

Anke Herrmann 44:56
Yes. Absolutley.

Heather Pearce Campbell 44:58
So tell, talk to us about bout the ways that you work with your clients right now, what are the types of things that you’re doing with your clients?

Anke Herrmann 45:07
My works mainly on one, I’ve got a few small groups, but the thing I really enjoy is the one on one work. Because, you know, even when I was sewing, like, the thing that I love was bespoke, it’s not about reinventing the wheel, it’s about, you know, learning all the things and knowing best practices, and then really tailor a solution for that particular, you know, business owner. And most of the time people come to me because to have some tech won’t entertain, I, it’s usually they have an idea for something, you know, oh, I want to run a workshop or have a one to have this kind of business. But then, okay, it’s, there’s a lot of enthusiasm, and I can relate to that. And but then, like, how do I bring this like, Okay, what do I have to do tomorrow? to actually make it happen? What tools do I need? How do I put the whole thing together? And so most of the time, they come from with some tech problem, or they looking to build the kind of business that I’ve got, where they say, Oh, you’ve gone well, I want to write so and it is more. But at the end of the day, it’s always got three pillars, it’s always the, okay, these skills, their strategy, and I can help you flatten that learning curve. But there’s always that other part to it, that the quality, I say, well recognize that you when you’re building a business or anything, that it’s a creative process, right and you can’t expect it to be a straight line. And it takes the fun out of it, to be honest. But it also like you have to embrace that dance in the unknown. And after learning what you need to learn, in the end, you need to come to a point where you do it your way, because that’s the only way that you can really step into your power and flourish. And really, not just like, Am I doing it right? Because you’re doing it somebody else’s way. So you need to kind of get beyond the learning what other people have been having done. And so yeah, I just can’t help but point people in that direction. Because I think it’s where the magic is. And when the two parts come together, then, you know, they can really pick up.

Heather Pearce Campbell 47:34
Well, I love that I mean really bringing the person into their own business as a decision-maker, right, versus somebody just implementing other people’s strategies and systems. And here’s the path. Yeah. And I love your description of who you work with you work with creatives, authors, coaches, healers, and other passionate free-spirited, open-minded souls, usually with a strong analytical mind, who are passionate about their craft or mission but find building a business around it challenging.

Anke Herrmann 48:10
And it’s often that relaxing into that creative process, also learning to trust your own judgment. Right? It’s, it’s, and it’s a difficult line to find, because when you, you know, have changed careers, many times, like I know what that feels like, when you’re new. When you’re the baby like, you know, you don’t know anything. So obviously, you’re going to look at others for direction and you’re going to look to learn and to study. And so I find that moment when you know like if you’re old enough, it’s time to close the books, you can now trust that what makes sense to you is actually trustworthy. So I think a lot of people struggle to let go and drifting over there and really embracing even embracing that uncertainty because you know, when once you stop following somebody else’s path, you know, like, you’re right. And people shy away from that. But then at the same time, if you look at anybody who inspires you, they’ve all done that. They’ve all like, you know, Bruce Lee jumps to mind, he studied all sorts of martial arts. In the end, what he came what, what it came down to his be water, my friend, right? It’s like, yeah, now you beyond the strategies, and you just, you know, embody what you’re creating.

Heather Pearce Campbell 49:41 Well, it’s interesting because that conversation, the, you know, like you no longer need to consume, you don’t need to keep learning and reading and there is a point where you just have to create you have to make the decision. There’s a woman, a client who I’ve worked with named Tara more she’s written a book called playing big. Phenomenal. She’s brilliant, but the phenomenal discussion around especially how high achieving women tend to stay in that consume, like, I need one more degree, I need this one more thing to show that I’m capable of doing X, Y, and Z or, you know, it’s and it’s really about taking that leap. She moves women through that fear conversation really beautifully. But it’s on this point, like there’s a point for all of us, you know, male or female that, like, yes, consuming so that you’ve got enough chops to be skillful and making your decisions is helpful. But there’s a point for all of us in our own businesses where we just need to decide and we need to create. I love that. So talk to us for a minute about and for anybody listening. The way to contact on Anke, excuse me, I keep going to the other side, I had it right the first time. The way to contact uncle, I’ll have all of your links wherever you know they need to reach you as well as your gift on my show notes page, which is legalwebsitewarrior.com/podcast. But talk to us a little bit about about your gift and where you like to show up online for people to connect with you.

Anke Herrmann 51:27
Well, my free gift to people is a free copy of my book, PDF copy of my book taming the 10 I love the title. I think it’s the perfect title.

Heather Pearce Campbell 51:36
The cute little monster that you actually have. The book is perfect. Yes.

Anke Herrmann 51:43
I do love it because I have a face mask. Yeah, he takes on a life of its own and, and the reason he looks so cute is that this is basically the message looks like this scary tech monsters actually just a friendly little dragon who like wants to play. And so yeah, there’s a free PDF copy of the book for anybody who finds tech frustrating that and it’s easy to find. It’s Uncle herman.com. My website that’s sort of my home base, but I’m very active on Facebook, I’m very active on LinkedIn. taming the tech monster.com is the companion website for the book. So there’s a lot of books that’s the free community to join. And you know, where you can ask these questions that you might be embarrassed to ask elsewhere. Yeah, LinkedIn, Facebook, I’m a little bit on Instagram, but not really big. But yeah.

Heather Pearce Campbell 52:43
Okay, perfect. Well, I will share all your links for people wanting to search Anke online, though your last name, Herrmann?

Anke Herrmann 52:56
Yes. Yes. So if you google me and find me quickly, perfect.

Heather Pearce Campbell 52:59
Well, that makes it easy. Thank you so much for joining me today and talking about your journey and about tech. I this is just such an important conversation for people because so many I have another friend that I talked to recently, and so many, especially women really have a hard time sorting out this part of their journey. And it can cause lots of problems in business. And so we need folks like you to be like you. It’s easy. I will help you. I will show Yeah.

Anke Herrmann 53:32
Yeah. And people like a common reaction is Oh, boy, I never knew this. Right. It’s like, it’s my guilty pleasure now of that, right? Because they kind of see-through Well, what made me think I could do that. Right? We I do a lot of things where we actually do it together.

Heather Pearce Campbell 53:50
So it just takes all of the the heaviness of it away. I mean, that’s what’s perfect about working with somebody like you. So thank you, Anke.

Anke Herrmann 53:59
Thank you so much.

Heather Pearce Campbell 54:02
I look forward to being in touch. We’ll see each other online and I will, I’ll follow up.

Anke Herrmann 54:09
Fabulous. Thank you.

GGGB Intro 54:15
Thank you for joining us today on the Guts, Grit and Great Business podcast. We hope that we’ve added a little fuel to your tank, some coffee to your cup and pep in your step to keep you moving forward in your own great adventures. four key takeaways links to any resources mentioned in today’s show and more see the show notes which can be found at legal website warrior.com slash podcast, be sure to subscribe to the podcast and if you enjoyed today’s conversation, please give us some stars and a review on Apple podcasts, Spotify or wherever you get your podcast so others will find us to keep up the great work you are doing in the world and we’ll see you next week.