With David Muntner, the CEO (Chief Empowerment Officer), visionary, leader, and founder of Renaissance Messaging. He fell into marketing because it is the one area of business that allows him to tap into his endless supply of curiosity. He has written marketing messaging for over a hundred top leaders and influencers in fields from law to witchcraft to science to finance to cryptocurrency. In 2020, he established his vision of forming a collective of curiosity-driven, Renaissance men and women to offer radically different and more effective marketing strategies based on truth and authenticity. David has been a sculptor, a writer, a personal trainer, and a marketer, and currently enjoys writing and playing music on a wide range of instruments.

Join us for this engaging conversation where we cover a variety of topics from podcasting, preferred learning and communication styles, what it means to be a Renaissance person, to curiosity, leadership, and more. You will enjoy hearing Dave bring his vast life experience to this conversation.

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Biggest takeaways (or quotes) you don’t want to miss:

  • On what makes a podcast stand out amongst many others.
  • “The messaging is always around creating a powerful niche.”
  • “Creators are like a water fountain… if there’s no receiving end, it will just make a mess.”
  • The first phase of the entrepreneurial journey.
  • What you need to do if you actually want to succeed and excel beyond the norm.

“There are time where the balls move very fast — it’s fun to jump in and catalyze. But if I catalyze too often, it’s also not very effective.”

-David Muntner

Check out these highlights:

  • 09:20 Why Rennaissance people are at risk of being a “jack of all trades and master of none.”
  • 13:30 David gives his takeaways on the people who want to pursue numerous endeavors vs modern messaging encouraging niching down.
  • 22:48 One of the most powerful ways to energize another person (in conversation) with David’s one simple tip.
  • 24:06 Hear David share a personal story about taking risks and how this relates to modern culture.
  • 38:24 David explains what Renaissance means and the importance of having the right, supportive people around us.
  • 49:57 A final piece of advice about conducting a life or business audit …

How to get in touch with David:

On social media:

LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/david-muntner

Learn more about David, by visiting his website Renaissance Messaging here.

If you are interested in a complementary Disruptor Session (mentioned at the end of the episode), you can email David at david@renaissancemessaging.com with the subject line “Guts & Grit” – Limited to the first three people!

Imperfect Show Notes

We are happy to offer these imperfect show notes to make this podcast more accessible to those who are hearing impaired or those who prefer reading over listening. While we would love to offer more polished show notes, we are currently offering an automated transcription (which likely includes errors, but hopefully will still deliver great value), below.

GGGB Intro  00:00

Here’s what to expect today …

Dave Muntner  00:02

What’s an area of my life that’s kind of dying or atrophying that I don’t want it to? And then it becomes well let’s what is the rebirth of this look like? You know, and again, if there’s nothing else that this conversation that you’re having, but it can catalyze within you is that you can do it – it doesn’t matter how old you are, if that passion is strong, that’s all the fuel that you need and just know that like, you know, most likely people around you condition you to think it’s okay that this thing dies, when in reality like it doesn’t it could. I’m telling you it’s not okay. Right if if you if you want it to grow, then own that.

GGGB Intro  00:40

The adventure of entrepreneurship and building a life and business you love, preferably at the same time is not for the faint of heart. That’s why Heather Pearce Campbell is bringing you a dose of guts, grit and great business stories that will inspire and motivate you to create what you want in your business and life. Welcome to the Guts, Grit and Great Business™ podcast where endurance is required. Now here’s your host, The Legal Website Warrior®, Heather Pearce Campbell.

Heather Pearce Campbell  00:57

Alrighty, welcome. I am Heather Pearce Campbell, The Legal Website Warrior®. I’m an attorney and legal coach based here in Seattle, Washington, serving online information entrepreneurs throughout the U.S. and around the world. Welcome to another episode of Guts, Grit and Great Business™. I am so excited to have my friend David Muntner. Here. Welcome, Dave.

Dave Muntner  01:13

Hello. Nice to be here.

Heather Pearce Campbell  01:15

So great to have you. I was just gonna say we’re so overdue for this conversation on the podcast.

Dave Muntner  01:19

Heather, you’re one of my favorite people.

Heather Pearce Campbell  01:27

Oh, thank you. Well, folks, did you hear that? You heard it here. I’m gonna save that when Dave, thank you great way to start the conversation?

Dave Muntner  01:33

Well, you, you know you, you are a living embodiment of the title of your podcast. Oh, you certainly have got some grit, and you’re doing the whole business thing.

Heather Pearce Campbell  01:37

You’re awesome. Well, I love it. You know, I think most of us probably that start podcast, we better do it on a topic that we relate to and feel passionately about. Right. And the whole, I don’t know if you know the origin story of my podcast, but I launched it again. Right after COVID started, and just being in the business of serving small, like small businesses, right? Information entrepreneurs, sometimes they’re micro businesses. I really just thought, Gosh, even on the legal side, my goal is to keep people in business, help them build successful thriving businesses. And I just thought, well, maybe I should launch a podcast where we have interesting conversations about business that will help people especially those who are struggling, who are feeling the intensity that is coming our way because of the pandemic and layered on top of normal constraints that small businesses face, right? People need to have a long term perspective and really adopt an approach of longevity and perseverance around building their business. So that was my goal. And it’s honestly been one of my favorite things to come out of the pandemic.

Dave Muntner  02:06

Yeah, this is this is really cool. And I guess I first just have a thought on podcasts. And there’s so many different podcasts. But what is it that makes one podcast stand out amongst many others? And I think it’s it’s, it’s you relating to the person asking the questions, because then you know, you have there, if you actually get a download, you people can almost feel like there’s the mirror neuron stuff and you can like feel your epiphany, Heather. And so I relate to you, and then I’m hearing you learn something. It’s like, you know, learning on steroids. 

Heather Pearce Campbell  02:24

So, really, it’s so fun. And you and I were just talking before we went live about how people have different learning styles and communication styles, right? And some people are better with an auditory style. And it turns out Dave was sharing that we can actually communicate in a different style that we learn best in which is also very fascinating, but I know that myself as a busy mom, like podcasts are awesome when I can be doing something else around the house or whatever and listening to a podcast as much as I love video and I love because I also am a very visual person. I love connecting with somebody visually seeing their face, watching their emotions, all of that podcasts have this intimacy about them, like you’re, you know, my goal for people when they sit down and listen to any conversation is that like they feel like they’re sitting at a dinner table. You and I, right? Like, really involved in an intimate conversation that they’re included in. And anyway, so I just

Dave Muntner  03:04

Heather, what’s your what’s your signature dish? For dinner? I’m just wondering, yeah.

Heather Pearce Campbell  03:06

What am I? Do I even have a signature? I know with kids, I feel like there’s, there’s almost never a meal where I can make one dish and everybody’s happy. It’s like, my husband. And I joke that if our kids are not complaining and refusing to eat a meal, like we’ve done something wrong, I mean, we’ve done something right, right. Anyways,

Dave Muntner  03:13

I love it. It’s like mac and cheese and jello,

Heather Pearce Campbell  03:14

Right. So on the Mac contain no. That’s exactly it. That’s my daughter’s signature dish. Like if we default to anything for her. It’s mac and cheese. But the let’s let’s quickly get you introduced because I’ve realized we jumped right into conversation, which is super fun. But for folks that don’t know, Dave, so Dave, and I met my goodness, was it after the pandemic started, we met in a mastermind started by a mutual friend. And anyways, we connected

Dave Muntner  03:30

It was basically a pandemic. Like, you know, origin story. You know, coming together. Yeah. I mean, literally, we met the same time we met COVID.

Heather Pearce Campbell  06:21

Right? That’s right. It was really early on. And you know, people were making lots of adjustments. But Dave also quickly became one of my favorite people. And we’ve been in touch of her sense. And so that’s also why I feel like we’re overdue for this conversation. But for folks that don’t know Dave, Dave is the visionary leader and founder of Renaissance messaging, he fell into marketing because it is the one area of business that allows him to tap into his endless supply of curiosity. I love that. He has written marketing messaging for over 100 top leaders and influencers in fields from law. Whoo, little plug for law, to witchcraft, which, oh, my gosh. You’re gonna say that oil? No, I was gonna say so many questions, comes out Heather around this next one witchcraft, to science to finance to cryptocurrency. In 2020, he established his vision of forming a collective of curiosity driven Renaissance men and women to offer radically different and more effective marketing strategies based on truth and authenticity. Dave has been a sculptor, a writer, a personal trainer, and a marketer and currently enjoys writing and playing music on a wide range of instruments. So Dave, I feel like obviously, you’re you’re the title of your company, right? Renaissance messaging is so perfect with that bio, like, here’s Dave’s 20 lives not even nine like 20. So welcome. I’m so excited to dig in.

Dave Muntner  07:54

Yeah, thank you for that intro. I like to get back.

Heather Pearce Campbell  07:59

Yeah, absolutely. It’s yours. So thank you. That, you know, I am really curious though, because you have done so much. And I know when you and I first connected, like I learned a little bit about your background, but was recently getting you connected to some other folks in my network that, like I learned you were a personal trainer for yours. That piece I didn’t know. Is there anything else on this list that should be added? Or that’s not on this list that we should?

Dave Muntner  08:26

Yeah, I mean, well, one thing was that I went to medium camp once. And then it was actually told that I would, you know, buy this one. I won’t name names for now. But like, this person has written books and is a one of a very famous, medium, medium. And, yeah, basically call me on he’s like, you’re a powerful medium, and then made this announcement in front of like, 200 people. That is like, this is Dave, he’s a medium. And then I got invited for free to a medium camp of which I was one of 12 people in there. 11 people were professional mediums. And then you know, so that was an experience.

Heather Pearce Campbell  09:06

Yeah, not everybody goes to medium count.

Dave Muntner  09:11

Everybody should. Maybe I shouldn’t have. But yeah, that was the thing. Amazing. Yeah. Well, one of the things that I’d love to just jump into is the concept of being a renaissance man or Renaissance owner renaissance person. And I like to kind of jump between the two of like, there’s the shadow, which is being a jack of all trades, and a master of none. And generally, if you’re into entrepreneurship, then you can fall into that bracket very quickly of I’m doing a lot of things at a mediocre level, and I’m stressed and overworked and then there’s being a renaissance person where like Leonardo da Vinci, you know, my boy, where he’s done all of these different things, and you still like if you kind of dive in deeper, you’re like, Oh, well, Leonardo da Vinci was one of the first people to create a jam session. That’s at least what I heard, like. So one of the first people that actually like musicians, you know, creating music together, he also created, you know, I mean, I don’t know if this is good or bad, but he created like a war machine that helped an army. And so, you know, there’s one person that’s tapping into excellence on all of these different levels. Mm hmm. And then it’s like, oh, it can be done. You know. And, and so that was really the dream was Renaissance mastering and having a collective of amazing individuals, like players who have varying interests. And then we basically create a renaissance company, right, that is, we’re not pigeon holed into doing one marketing thing. But instead, we’re creating a solution that works. You know, it’s a VIP white glove experience. And that’s why we’ve done videos for clients, and we’ve done magazines, and then also traditional sales pages. And, and it’s fun, because we get to expand, we like to learn. And so you know, kind of embracing that really helps. And then this also gives me an excuse to live the dream as a rock star with Davey Harris, which is my musical venture. But I was in a band.

Heather Pearce Campbell  11:09

Yeah, well, it’s, you know, it’s so interesting, because I think I mean, even your description of Leonardo da Vinci, right? You think like, how could he have been an expert or proficient at all these things, right, because there’s a variety in there. And it’s interesting, I went to Japan twice in high school, and on Mount Fuji, which was one of my favorite locations we visited, there’s an art exhibit, there’s a Da Vinci art exhibit, right, which is outstanding. But I still, you know, I don’t know his whole story. And I think modern culture tells us, we can’t do that. We can’t, you know, we can’t do all the things and, and especially when you think about how much and whether it’s true information or misinformation, right, this whole competition of resources thing within business within building a business, within, you know, creating success, the messaging is always around niching, creating a niche, a powerful niche, like be known for one thing, even know, like, and you and I before going live, we’re talking about visual performers, right? And how do you take an actor or an actress, how often do you find out that they are totally triple threat, they can sing, dance and act? And they’re in the art world? And they do all these things? Right? Yeah. How there’s this conflict between like people who, who probably really want to be doing and pursuing, you know, numerous avenues for, you can call it success. You can call it joy. You can call it work, whatever you want to call it, right? But looking at the way that you have shaped your own life, versus modern messaging around, no, you can’t, you can’t do that. You can’t do that and be successful. You can’t do that and build a successful small business. What do you have to say to that?

Dave Muntner  13:05

I love that question. And again, thanks for the invitation to be here. This is a lot of fun. And these are topics I like to talk about. So when, you know, I just have you know, my uncle says opinions are like assholes. Everyone has at least one of them.

Heather Pearce Campbell  13:21

And otherwise, you’re in big trouble.

Dave Muntner  13:24

Yeah, yeah. I don’t want to. Yeah, that can be a smelly situation. So I have an opinion about this. And, you know, with, which is firstly, like, there’s certain times where I do things, and I’m, I’m critical of myself, but there are certain times where based on like a traditional standard, people be like, Wow, you’re doing a lot of things, you know, and then it’s a moment for me to pat myself on the back. And also the second you pat yourself on the back, you’re kind of in trouble, because then you’re like, I’ve accomplished the same, and then you stop moving forwards. And so I kind of reframe things to like, How can I motivate myself? And how can I motivate myself to do more. And so then when I think about it like, all of these things, let whether it’s being an accountant, or a personal trainer, or an artist, right? They’re all very human things. It’s not like they’re superhuman, like, you’re flying or something, but they’re things that like a human created this box, and then it’s like we can, and so there’s this concept, we’re all cut from the same cloth. And if another human’s done it, then you know, and if you’re a versatile human being, then you could probably do it as well. And so like Heather, you’re one of those people we talked about before you’re capable of doing. You have the gift and curse of being able to do everything well. And so then it really comes down to you know, if you could do everything well, what are you going to focus on? Right? So then it’s more it’s more a matter of, you know, in the question of like, Oh, if you can do it Everything you know what you’re gonna do? And it’s more? What is driving you forwards? You know? And are you capable of following through? Because that’s a lot, you know, the whole idea of jack of all trades master one is like there’s a lot of people out there who have great ideas and they start things, they start a lot of sayings. And then nothing happens. So, I will share that I started a lot of things. So I have a cool list of a lot of things I started and I am not world class. I mean, maybe I was at the time, I was a pretty good personal trainer. But like at this point, you know, I might have shaped even a little. I am not a personal trainer, but I had a moment in time where I, you know, I, I dabbled in that. And it was kind of like, what was I interested in at the time. Now, what is an advantage? I currently have right now, that is good to think about for many creators. It’s having support, like having other people around. Because my analogy for me right now and my ability to create things now as much, I can do it quicker and more effectively than ever before. And I haven’t changed much. It’s more so that there’s just way more awesome people around me.

Heather Pearce Campbell  16:14

Right, one of the points I was going to make when you listen, for example, some of the things that you do for your clients, right, I wanted to be clear that it’s because I’ve watched your journey, right? Since we’ve met, we’ve been in touch. And so I’ve known at least a little bit about it. Like how well you’ve built a team and bread all these people around you that can do a variety of things and dig into a variety of these projects in ways that if you were just trying to execute yourself would be crazy business, right?

Dave Muntner  16:42

Just don’t execute myself. But yeah, yeah, so one of this one analogy is just that, like we, as creators, and most likely, if you’re listening to this, you’re a creator yourself, it’s kind of like you’re a water fountain, and you have this water that comes out. I was recently at the gym. And so there was like, the water fountain was like pointed towards, you know, the, you know, not from the side, but actually, like, if you press the push button, the water will just go and make a nice puddle on the floor. And so I’m basically this water fountain. And if I don’t have it, like a receiver or receiving end, like a bucket, or then it’s I just make a mess, my life is a mess. Right? But if there’s like the right people around to basically capture the idea, then if you’re, you’re actually watering a garden, you’re using it for something more. And I’ve just realized that like, now I’m aware because I’ve, I’ve tasted the forbidden fruit of like really awesome people that can collaborate. And so now I know very quickly if my idea is going to just make a puddle, but somebody else or if it’s going to actually, you know, create a beautiful blonde, you know, fruit tree, as an example. But yes, so that’s, that’s one of the things when it comes to doing a lot is just making sure that there’s people around because then you do at work. 

Heather Pearce Campbell  17:50

Yeah, well, and I love that acknowledgement of knowing your personal strengths, right? You said, it sounds like you’ve got a lot of activation energy, you start a lot of things. And I think a lot of people, culture tells us like, it’s bad to do that, if you’re not a finisher, right, you’ve got something wrong with you or, you know, I can relate I have a lot of activation energy myself, and I can make decisions quickly and move a little bit too quickly in multiple directions, which does not always serve me well. And, and yet, if you go through the process, like it sounds like you’ve done a recognizing how to utilize that strength, acknowledging it, embracing it and utilizing it well, it doesn’t have to work to your disadvantage, right? Yeah. And it’s, it really is about getting to the point of knowing yourself in a way that allows you to call on those strengths that in one circumstance seem like a disadvantage, and in the right circumstance, really, really operate as a strength.

Dave Muntner  18:45

Yeah, I mean, there’s, I know, I, you know, the the way because we’re talking about business a little bit, and then you know, maybe I’ll kind of share some some some personal fun struggles and and, you know, some successes, and then you know, where I’m at currently. But there’s this, it’s like the journey that either you’re like you’re working, you know, for somebody else, which is fantastic. And there’s individuals that actually really thrive in that space. You know, or and I also for most of my life, didn’t when I was first learning about entrepreneurship, I didn’t think I was capable of being an entrepreneur. And I was super self conscious about it. I like I didn’t . I’d like to see all these other people that were, you know, seemingly succeeding, growing a business and it seemed like I could. I was not cut from the same claw. And, and I was just an artist, like I literally thought when I was in the band, I was like kind of a bit of a, you know, a self hating musician for time now I’m now a recovering self hating musician, there was a time where I was just like I had all this envy for, quote unquote, successful individuals who were focusing on one thing, and really just having it grow and feeling like I can’t really do that, or I’m interested in these different things, and I’m never going to kind of follow through. So I’m sharing little pieces of the puzzle, and it’ll all come together at the end. So, within this entrepreneurial journey, they say that the first phase is solopreneur, where it’s you, you’re doing your thing, right, and then the upgrade to that is solopreneur. With help, which means you’re doing your thing, but you have, you’ve at least realized that, you know, two is better than one or three is better than one. And so you have other whether it’s VAs or other people helping and are and that that’s, they’re individuals that could be just a solopreneur their whole life and make millions of dollars, because they love the thing they’re doing, and they’re the best in the world at it, congratulations, if that’s you, you know, solopreneur would help you’re like, Okay, we’re kind of expanding a little bit more, then there’s, then you get to, like, you know, basically being a business owner, where you now have a team. Now I’m gonna like it. And then, you know, there’s enterprise level and it kind of expands. And so one thing to keep in mind is, different individuals don’t necessarily think clearly about what stage they’re in, when they’re giving feedback or advice. Because like, there’s, there’s, there’s like, different navigational tools when you’re a solopreneur, or solopreneur. With helper, you know, you’re kind of into that entrepreneurial space. But yeah, so I was, I was in a space for many years, where I just was like, no printer, or I was like, I didn’t have a lot of faith in myself. But from that list at the very beginning, you know, one of the earliest, but the first business outside of being in a band that I got, was working with, is NASA scientist. And, and it was cool in that, like, I literally had a dream, I was like, God, can I have a business to run? I want a business, right? And I because I was like trying business things with the band. And it wasn’t really working. And I was kind of drained. And, yeah, so then a friend connected me. And I started to work on an algorithm, right? And this, who knows, maybe one day, this will be a billion dollar algorithm. My joke is that 15% of zero is still zero. And so like we were working together in this one particular, basically, we didn’t have good marketing, even though the product was amazing. And, we and there was like stubbornness, there’s, there’s definitely a phase where you don’t want to go for help. And you’re just trying to so basically, that was kind of a little sticking point. But what’s cool, right, as far as this desire for many things, in dabbling in many things, is that I’ve dabbled in so many things. Now that it is, it’s actually great for delegation. I was a project manager, I’m a terrible project manager, but I wasn’t Project Manager for time. So I know what a good project manager is. And, yeah, so I think that, you know, we’re conditioned to think that after a certain point, you are supposed to settle. There’s a really strong settled energy. Versus like, the keep going energy is really rare. Huh?

Heather Pearce Campbell  22:35

When you say that? Do you mean culturally? Do you mean that individually? We do that to ourselves? What? What context? Are you?

Dave Muntner  22:42

Yeah, I would say, in all of the above. Yeah. Like, I think one of the reasons why, you know, you are i when someone has a conversation with us, they actually get energy. It’s because we’re supportive of their dreams. And we’re like a speed boost. If they’re racing. It’s like, actually, you can do that, and you can go faster. And for whatever reason, they’re like, I don’t know. I mean, I was brought. My other story is that my grandfather died on Friday the 13th in a freak water tower accident. Now he has died. And he’s my namesake, but he died before I was born. And all good things. I mean, it’s my mom, you know, she was 10 years old or something at the time, but, you know, that, basically, he was told this on this Friday 13th When it went, he was an electrician. And he was told by his colleagues, like you shouldn’t work in this water tower alone. It’s dangerous. And he’s like, No, I got it. Which was either bravery or stupidity. Who knows? And then he never came back. And what did that instill in my mom? The idea that taking risks means dying, or danger, right? And so, you know, but you know that that’s one very personal example, but in many We have a culture of like, if you take too many risks, you’re going to get hurt. And it’s like, if you don’t follow this traditional path, then it’s going to get hurt. And then parents kind of learn this. And then they want to instill to protect their children, children, like, follow this traditional path, or you’re going to get hurt, because no one wants to see their children get hurt. Now, the problem is that it’s basically creating this like static or the stasis versus progress. And so I think my favorite thing to do is mess things up and think outside the box, because then you get new perspectives. I mean, what I’ve noticed with my team, right is that they’re, they’re more efficient at staying focused, staying on the ball. But there are certain times where the balls move very fast. And so then it’s fun for me to kind of jump in and catalyze. But what I found is that if I catalyze two times in a row, or too often, then it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s also not very effective. So like, I’m actually noticing my role is like, starting up the engine, you know, but if you start the engine too many times, you’re just gonna like

Heather Pearce Campbell  24:46

fled. You fled the engine. That’s right. Yeah.

Dave Muntner  26:09

Yeah. So I guess I’m kind of sharing a few of my own skill sets and what I’ve discovered here, but it’s kind of like, if you are not someone like me, you probably want someone like me around to move things forward. But then someone like me wants about 20 other people around me, that all have these different skill sets. Because then it’s like, together, we’re kind of creating something magical.

Heather Pearce Campbell  26:32

Well, and I love the way that you illustrate, you know, all of these things that you have done contributing to your ability to make decisions, right, they inform your experience now, and now you’re in much more of a position to like, in conjunction with your team, looking at your clients, businesses, be able to do these evaluations, and I think really look at things from a variety of perspectives, because you’ve stood in those perspectives, right? It’s not just like this narrow experience, it’s wide. And, you know, I think embracing, I don’t know, for me, I’m, I think we could do ourselves all a huge favor by, like, I love your theme of curiosity, and embracing more of an experimental attitude, you’re right, that it goes against, in a lot of ways it goes against human nature. But it also goes against cultural norms of like, how, okay, is it to switch jobs 10 times or try a different career or throw in the towel when other people are looking at your job saying that’s a good job, that’s security, right? Or, or your business, you know, launching a business and then shifting gears and doing something new, like, these things are okay, I wish that they were more okay, from an outside perspective, so that people were not thwarted by peer pressure, or familial pressure, or, you know, the naysayers.

Dave Muntner  28:05

Yeah, I mean, I, I am certainly a sponge. I’m less of a sponge now than I have been in the past. But you know, we were talking about listening to podcasts at the very beginning and being an auditory learner, as probably the majority of people who love podcasts are, because, you know, they’re just, they’re listening, and they’re observing. And that was me, for like, the first five years of my kind of entrepreneurial journey, which was late by certain people Senate, like I was, I was 27. I guess I’m 36. Now, but I was I was, like, 2728 2728, when I when I was when I made the decision of like, I want to be a business owner. Just I’m just sharing which and like, I did an apprenticeship, where I didn’t make any money when I was like, 30 for like, I don’t know, four months or five months. And at the time, even, you know, people in that space, were kind of questioning why I was even doing that. But then, I mean, it’s led to amazing things. And but it but it was really because I was I was like, I believe that I’m like learning. I’m 18 years old, and I’m learning right now. And that. And then you realize, like, oh, I can hold on. Wait, I’m allowed to have that mindset. And wait, I’m allowed to succeed with that mindset. That’s really, really cool. You know, and then it’s like, I have a friend turning 50 And he’s like, 50 is the new 30. Yeah, I think I think you’re right, great. I mean, we’re the new 18 Who the hell, you know, like, but but I’ve just I’ve so why I’m sharing this as far as like getting feedback and advices like, I have three coaches. It’s definitely helped like getting coaches getting people you trust that you can vent and vomit your stuff with and then that they can give feedback is great. And one of my favorite things is actually, I’ve I don’t know, like, this is me, tooting my horn. I’ve had many coaches like, you know, many perspectives. And from that year, I’ve worked, it’s actually given me self confidence to make my own decisions. Because now I’m like, Oh, I don’t have to listen to everything a coach says anymore. Now I can trust myself. But it actually took a lot of that. And so I’m sharing this because I’ve cultivated a skill of listening, just based literally on listening to so many freakin podcasts. And then also having so many coaches like I’ve been just nodding my head and listening for a long time. And, then what I’ve realized, now with tuning this listening is that a lot of the modern world is not giving speed boosts to people as they’re growing their businesses, but instead creating, you know, these ways of slowing things down. You know,

Heather Pearce Campbell  30:46

Detours, sidetracking Yeah.

Dave Muntner  30:50

Yeah. And, and so it doesn’t have to be that way. I guess. It’s just like, you know, for those listening, it’s like you’re getting really aware of when someone is telling you information, is it giving you energy? Or is it taking away energy? Because a lot of times, if it’s taking away energy, it may not be the right feedback for you. And, you know, I’ll just give an example, which is that, like, I created a songwriting retreat in Hawaii was great. And it was sold out. And, you know, and it was, you know, like, it’s an investment. And, at first, even my parents were like, that’s crazy. Who would pay for that? Who would want that? And it’s, you know, my first instinct is to almost be like, you’re right. I should stop while I’m ahead.

Heather Pearce Campbell  31:35

But, but nobody wants to learn songwriting, or do so yeah,

Dave Muntner  31:39

Yeah. But then, but then it was like, committing to it. Which, by the way, that’s the key to ending when you’re mentioning like, you know, doing all those different things. What’s the difference? There’s dabbling, there’s committing, and all of the things that I’ve committed to it’s, it’s the long journey. And then it’s like, I get results, one way or another, or I’m, you know, trying but like, Well,

Heather Pearce Campbell  32:03

it’s true. And I, you know, you raise a couple of good points, one about listening about having other people in your life, whether it’s business coaches, masterminds, whatever that allow you to reflect, allow you to listen and reflect, and you know, where other people can show up and be mirrors for you. And for any of us, whether it’s our personal life choices, whether it’s our business choices, I’m such a strong believer in that, you know, you described it as does it give you energy? Or does it take away energy, like you are responsible for choosing not only the experts you bring into your life, but what you are there to learn from that expert? The answer is not everything, right? Yeah, you’re there to learn probably something pretty specific from that particular business coach, or that particular expert, but it’s on you to decide what that is. Because nobody else can decide for you. And it. And anyways, I’ve seen so many ways, how it can go sideways, when people just kind of stay in the sponge mode, and they don’t decide for themselves. And I think that also ties really well into your point around commitment. What are you committed to, because when you’re committed, you’re making decisions, you’re not just sitting there, right? You’re, you’re making the next decision of what next thing needs to come. And it just becomes such a more powerful version of the journey.

Dave Muntner  33:33

Yeah, and one of the coolest things, just having experienced multiple managers in the band, the band, the 10s, I was in for 10 years. Is at one point, when we were having a lot of band drama, our manager at the time, you know, we were like going to Him for guidance, and like, what do we do next and whatever else and, and knowing our half in half, like one foot in one foot out energy that we had as a band at the time, he was like, and we talked to me at the time, and he was like, Damn, you need to want this more than me for this to work. And he met with the band as well. Yeah. And it’s the same thing. When you’re getting coaching it is like you need to want the result more than anyone else. And then you will intuitively find the right path. forwards.

Heather Pearce Campbell  34:26

Yeah, well,

Dave Muntner  34:27

First reverse just mindlessly taking advice of trying it. Yeah.

Heather Pearce Campbell  34:32

Well, and I think, you know, the folks that are able to figure it out more quickly. They are paying attention to some of those signs and signals whether they’re internal, their intuitive, you know, instinct on something. And I think for a lot of folks because, you know, when you mentioned the piece you felt like you were cut from a different cloth. You really wanted to be an entrepreneur and a successful one and you just felt like maybe, you know, it wasn’t for you or You couldn’t do it. I think there’s a ton of people who already are entrepreneurs who feel that way. Right? There’s a ton of people and you even look at the statistics around, at what point do the vast majority of entrepreneurs reach success? Guess what? It’s in their late 40s. And their 50s. You know, I mean, it is not these stories that make the headlines of late 20s or early 30s, or, you know, even those, I think those kinds of things are really enticing to the marketplace, right, the 30, under 30, or whatever. And I’m so over it, I’m like, No, show me the person. 

Dave Muntner  35:39

I want to be in the 30 over 30.

Heather Pearce Campbell  35:43

I, you know, I want to be in the 70 over 70, like I want to show me the people who are still reinventing their lives, in their 60s in their 70s in their 80s. It’s like,

Dave Muntner  35:55

We should just come up with all kinds of fun awards, like 30, under 80, or, you know, the 20 over 20.

Heather Pearce Campbell  36:03

But it’s, you know, I think that sense of, of the fact that it’s a journey, and that we’re always going to have the opportunity to evolve if we choose it and be very intentional about what comes next it, it, it does open up a whole world of possibilities that don’t exist. If we believe in this myth that like, you somehow arrive, you choose the thing, you create the thing, you reach a certain level of success. And that, you know, that’s it. And it’s like one of the favorite mutual people that I introduced you to right as a client of mine. And when I learned her age, I just about fell out of my seat, right? she I think she turns 80 this year or next year, and like she just launched a new software program, right? Because it didn’t exist in the world. I’m like, I want to be that person, right, that is willing to take on a project that size and try something new at age 80 with no thought in mind about retirement. Anyways,

Dave Muntner  37:04

Well, I love it. And then there’s, it just goes back to all the resistors that are out there. Probably some deliberate and some not deliberate that, you know, from the powers that be that basically, you know, make it very easy, and almost incentivized for, for you to play smaller. And that’s it’s really cool to be like, Wow, I can be I can love my life and feel like I have even more energy. Now, you know, 50, 60, 70, 80 Yeah, 90. Like, that’s, and by the way, that’s exciting to me, like, I, the people I like are the ones that when they’re sharing something, it’s already outside the box. And I’m like, okay, great. You’re my people.

Heather Pearce Campbell  37:53

Yeah, exactly. Well, and, and on that point, because I think what I’m leaning into is this idea that kind of being a renaissance man or woman is actually more for everybody than not, but we can make a choice about whether to lean into that right? What does Renaissance mean to you? How do you define what it means to be a renaissance individual?

Dave Muntner  38:21

Yeah, I love that. And I think of firstly, the word Renaissance, which I’ve used is a rebirth or resurgence, right. And so when we thought of it within the organization, it was at any other company or client or business that we touched, like, we want to create a resurgence or Renaissance for them. Right. And it’s, it’s really like the awakening, like, it’s like light coming, because what was before it, it was the Dark Ages. And so you know, having your own, like, in a way, what does being a renaissance person mean? It means that you’ve actually experienced your own Renaissance, you know, that there’s this vitality within your life. Because it’s like, the stuff that I’ve done that sticks is the stuff I’m very passionate about and excited about. And so that’s kind of like Renaissance energy. But then I also think of it like, you’re not, you’re not getting caught in the darkness, you’re not getting caught in the box. But instead, you’re kind of creating that other piece. So then it’s just, it’s also this belief that you can succeed and excel at more than one thing. But it’s only if you actually are passionate about it that it’s not doing it for the sake of doing it. Or it’s like well, I want to get good at multiple things just so that I can say I can put it like on my little you know, board that I’ve done these things and accomplished these things, but more so like, I actually have a curiosity and I feel good about it. I want to keep going. So as an example with instruments, right? So tooting my own horn again, I don’t play the horn. Unless it’s the ego horn. Then I took that thing all day. 

Heather Pearce Campbell  40:00

Go for it. Go for it. We need a good dose of ego.

Dave Muntner  40:04

Okay. Oh yeah, yeah and ecosystem, and you’re a part of now. So play the drums, guitar, bass sing like piano I think that’s and then I did like the hand hand drums at points but like, part of it was just there was a time where I thought I can never play guitar, there was a there was a time for most of my freakin life where I thought I could never sing I thought the worst voice ever, I was ashamed of my voice. It was really in the My voice that even cracked when I said that. But yeah, and then at different points, you know, like I happen to be connected to the right people who were not the resistor energy people but they gave the speed boost of like, now you can do this and you can do this faster. Like, literally my one singing instructor was like, you know, this very potent, you know, resilient woman who was just like you, you know, she was angry at me because he’s like, you could do so much better you can do it. Let’s see it. You know, that’s the kind of encouragement that I want. And so I’ve, I guess I’ve learned to compare different desires, different passions with different mentors. And that’s also like the hack, in a way it’s like, it’s not just someone that knows the thing, but it’s someone that believes in you. Because that belief is the most valuable piece for me, like, I could be practicing all day, but I won’t. Like I have my show tomorrow. And I had a singing lesson this morning. And it’s not because I necessarily needed it. But I kind of wanted the confidence boost. Yeah, yeah. And so it’s, you’re kind of like creating your own ingredients there. But I guess I’m not sure what the different instruments are. I wanted to I wanted my own fucking band, like I wanted it. And so and then, and then it was once. Once I kind of had the belief that I could play all these instruments. Like, then I was like, Oh, well, I’m definitely doing that. Like, wait, I can do that. I’m definitely gonna do that. Right. And so, so I guess the Renaissance first is the awakening of like, oh, you can do more than you realize. And then it becomes like, Okay, let’s do it. And you know, then this is coupled with strategy, right? Like, what I didn’t know, you know, years ago is like, you can actually be very strategic about what you work on. And you can have phases, and then it becomes, okay, three years from now, what was the thing I want, as an example? And then it’s like reverse engineering it well, what’s the thing to focus on now and double down on now?

Heather Pearce Campbell  42:33

Well, I love you know, even your description of like, the multiple instruments, I think some people would probably hear that and feel intimidated, like, well, I can’t do eight things at once. But, and for me, I’m curious whether, because when I think of the word Renaissance, like I really think of like renewal, like renewed energy rebirth, revival, and actually, I looked up the definition while we were speaking, right, it is a revival of or renewed interest in something. Right? Yeah. Or, you know, rebirth, right? It literally means rebirth. And and so for me, my question is, is it about doing all of these things at once? Is it about just bringing all of ourselves to whatever it is that we’re doing? Or is it about the fact that like, when you look at a well lived life, at least in my opinion, there are a number of rebirth and renewals that happen in sequence in that life? Right? So could you be a renaissance person that just reinvents yourself or moves on to the next thing? And you know, that I don’t know. And I feel like society now because especially when you talk about the cultural piece, I think, interestingly, the pandemic has opened the door for a lot of people for that experience, a rebirth or a renewal or a recreation. So that’s one of the Silver Linings that I see. But yeah, right, for somebody who wants to relate to that term, you know, Renaissance man, Renaissance woman, I’m curious, your thoughts on whether it’s doing all the things all at once, or this concept of continual renewal?

Dave Muntner  44:17

Yeah, and thank you, because this really helps to clarify things. So, you know, if, in my bizarro universe, my actual rebirth was becoming a renaissance person, like, like, I literally have the desire to be a renaissance person, because that seems cool as shit to me. And I’m like, I believe I can do it, and then

Heather Pearce Campbell  44:39

 Enjoy yourself the freedom to embrace that.

Dave Muntner  44:43

Yeah. And so that was in a way that was my own personal Renaissance. But your point is amazing and very valid. And so I you know, honor you that that actually makes perfect sense of, you know, if you’re listening and you’re taking anything from this conversation, it’s it’s kind of like a thought of, well, what’s an area of my life that’s kind of dying or atrophying that I don’t want it to. And then it becomes, well, let’s, what is the rebirth of this look like? You know, and again, if there’s nothing else of this conversation that Heather and I are having, what it can catalyze within you is that you can do it. It doesn’t matter how old you are, if you have that passion that is strong, that’s all the fuel that you need. And just know that like, you know, most likely people around you condition you to think it’s okay that this thing dies, when in reality like I’m telling you it’s not okay. Right? If, if you want it to grow, then on that.

Heather Pearce Campbell  45:38

Totally. Well. And that’s a really important piece, like, is it okay within you? Or is there some longing or holding on to it that’s occurring, right? And how could that be a rebirth for you? Dave, I feel like I mean, we’ve just touched the tip of the iceberg. We haven’t even gotten into, for example, your brilliance around messaging, and like the clarity that you bring to clients. And there’s a whole personal story around that that I want to share. I feel like there’s a part two to this conversation. So I’m going to put a pin in it. But I, but for folks, because we are bumping up against the hour for folks that are listening, I just want to ask you, where do you like for people to connect online, right? People that are like, Oh, my gosh, I’m loving the idea of this renaissance concept, Renaissance messaging, bringing my business, my marketing my message to the world in a better, more truthful, more authentic way, right, people are getting really tired of some of the old strategies and a lot of the tactics and the kind of the shock and awe that happens in especially online marketing, right. And there’s something very refreshing, I would invite you, if you’re listening, and you’ve got a small business, and you are thinking like oh my gosh, I’ve never really tackled my messaging, or it’s evolved, and I need to fix it, I need to bring it in line with, you know where I’m at now. Like, it’s really refreshing to even just read the copy on your website. I did that after I made a couple of connections for you recently. And I was like, Oh, this is like such a refreshing message to read. I would just invite you if you’re listening to pop over and check out Dave’s website. So we’ll be sure to share that in the show notes. Yeah. Dave, anything else? Yeah, that you want to share as far as where you are online, where you’d like to connect with people?

Dave Muntner  47:29

Yeah, thanks for that. Feel free to head to renaissancemessaging.com. And, you know, there’s a place where you can kind of connect or, you know, want to learn more, I think we have an option there. But that kind of shares the mission and our approach. And if nothing more, you know, feel inspired. There’s, there’s a box right now, there are many boxes right now within marketing. And I think the idea is that, like, if you actually want to succeed and excel beyond the norm, then you most likely would want to step outside of the box within your messaging. So what I spoke to Heather about and offer, this would be the first three people that send me a message, david@renaissancemessaging.com with the subject line of Guts and Grits, then, you know, myself or someone on my team, we will offer you a message disrupter session, which normally, yeah, it has a price tag to it. 

Heather Pearce Campbell  48:30

But yes, it does. And I will interject really quickly if you are listening to this and you are even slightly inclined to do this. You’re insane not to just gonna say that if you knew the list of folks that Dave has worked with, if you know the kinds of projects and businesses that he’s worked for, and my you know, I can personally talk about the level of clarity that Dave brings to his clients and his work you want to be sprinting to that little that offer, which is tremendous, and very generous of you, Dave?

Dave Muntner  49:00

Well, thanks very much. Yeah. And then if you’re not one of the first three, but you still send a message, I’ll make sure that my team will send you some cool messaging care package to really catalyze your branding, because like, really, I view myself as like the low hanging fruit police. I’m just looking for opportunities that you wouldn’t have seen yourself. And my other joke, by the way, is that if you don’t know how to spell Renaissance, messaging or Renaissance, then you’re not for me. Anyway, sorry.

Heather Pearce Campbell  49:29

I love that, and we will share your links at legalwebsitewarrior.com/podcast, so hop on over I would love for you to check out Dave’s work. Dave, thank you so much for being with us today. Again, there will be a part two to this conversation where we dig into even more of your current work and brilliant. What final thought would you like to leave people with?

Dave Muntner  49:53

Yeah, thank you for having me. The final thought is it’s nice sometimes to do a little bit of either a life audit, or a business audit, and really just consider all that you’ve done thus far. And realize, like, trying to listen for that voice, the little voice that’s not not like the nagging voice was like, You should do more, but more so the voice that’s like loving and nurturing. It’s like, wow, like, and, and you’re capable of even more. And you whether that’s just more enjoyment in life, or more satisfaction, or just believing there’s that you’re worth it to explore or experiment. And I would say listen to that voice. That’s kind of my last thing is like, like, if that voice is there, you know, he or she or they’re there. It’s worth listening to. And, and so yeah, and see what comes of it and trust trust that voice? Because that’s probably the most honest voice that is speaking to you at the moment.

Heather Pearce Campbell  50:53

I love that. Yeah. And all we’ve got to do is slow down and pay attention. I think the voice is there. I think we all have it. It’s whether or not we tune in and pay attention to it. Dave, you’re amazing. Thank you for being here. today. We will connect again very soon.

Dave Muntner  51:06

Amazing. Thank you for having me.

Heather Pearce Campbell  51:08


GGGB Outro  51:11

Thank you for joining us today on the Guts, Grit and Great Business™ podcast. We hope that we’ve added a little fuel to your tank, some coffee to your cup, and pep in your step to keep you moving forward in your own great adventures. For key takeaways, links to any resources mentioned in today’s show and more, see the show notes which can be found at www.legalwebsitewarrior.com/podcast. Be sure to subscribe to the podcast and if you enjoyed today’s conversation, please give us some stars and a review on Apple podcasts, Spotify or wherever you get your podcast so others will find us too. Keep up the great work you are doing in the world and we’ll see you next week.