Desire, Pleasure & Money

With Wendy Petties, the Date Your Money Coach, who knows that the key to having everything you desire is to create a healthy and intimate relationship – with your money. You need to date your money like you date a person.

After filing bankruptcy she used her signature method, The Sexy Money Lifestyle, which highlights her skills as an MBA, Psychologist, and a Sex Educator to grow her net worth to well over 1.3 million dollars.

She has been featured in Essence Magazine, Fast Company, Sisters From AARP, NBC LX, and O School.

Join us in this fun conversation as Wendy shares her personal story, insights from her journey as an MBA, psychologist and sex educator, and reflections on pleasure and money that will help you relate to your money and finances in a new way.

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Biggest takeaways (or quotes) you don’t want to miss:

  • “When we are in our confident, full-up selves, we can negotiate all kinds of things.”
  • “That’s part of the work that I do is, make it not so scary. I make it fun and I make it in a safe space.”
  • How to begin thinking differently about pleasure.
  • On the importance of having tools and practices that you incorporate into your life.
  • “We get to do what we want to do, but all too often we forget that.”

“Anything that I want to have means that I’ve got to do something different, or behave in a way to get that. And I may opt to be like, no, I’m good right here.”

-Wendy Petties

Check out these highlights:

  • 05:18 Wendy’s riveting career history from sex educator to Wall Street to entrepreneur.
  • 13:30 Good Girls Do – hear about Wendy’s first company.
  • 18:35 On broadening the idea of pleasure.
  • 24:06 Building herself back up after bankruptcy.
  • 33:21 How we can use the negative and positive to help us get to where we want to go.
  • 44:00 Wendy explains the Date Your Money workshop – an experience she has created to help her women entrepreneur clients go from “are you ready to have a relationship with your money?” to setting yourself up to relate to your money with JOY.

How to get in touch with Wendy:

On social media:




You may also visit her website here.

Imperfect Show Notes

We are happy to offer these imperfect show notes to make this podcast more accessible to those who are hearing impaired or those who prefer reading over listening. While we would love to offer more polished show notes, we are currently offering an automated transcription (which likely includes errors, but hopefully will still deliver great value), below.

GGGB Intro  00:00

Here’s what you get on today’s episode of Guts, Grit and Great Business™ …

Wendy Petties  00:05

I was focused mainly on sex and relationships. And it was it was like a, you know, like an affront, you know, like good girls do whatever the hell they want to do, you know, and so it came from that kind of, you know, well, I don’t know if you should say it like that, or you should wear that or you should be, you should feel lucky, you know, that someone wants to date you or whatever, not checking in with yourself, you know, squashing your intuition and, you know, making nice and all of those things. And so I just, I don’t, I don’t agree with that. I don’t, I don’t, I think we can use those strengths over done also. And we can be really, you know, really masculine, and you know, like, I don’t need anybody and I’m not subscribing to that either. But I think finding your space in the middle is really, really important. As a woman, as a woman, you have to be able to do that.

GGGB Intro  00:57

The adventure of entrepreneurship and building a life and business you love, preferably at the same time is not for the faint of heart. That’s why Heather Pearce Campbell is bringing you a dose of guts, grit and great business stories that will inspire and motivate you to create what you want in your business and life. Welcome to the Guts, Grit & Great Business™ podcast where endurance is required. Now here’s your host, The Legal Website Warrior®, Heather Pearce Campbell.

Heather Pearce Campbell  01:30

Alrighty, welcome. I am Heather Pearce Campbell, The Legal Website Warrior®. I’m an attorney and legal coach based here in Seattle, Washington, serving entrepreneurs throughout the U.S. and around the world. Welcome today to another episode of Guts, Grit & Great Business™. I am so excited. Wendy, we’re like years overdue for this. I was looking and I think I tried to book you two years ago. And somehow it got bumped or somebody had to reschedule. So I’m so glad that we are finally connecting. Especially on the podcast. And yeah, for those of you that don’t know Wendy, this is going to be a fabulous conversation. So Wendy and I actually first met, we were just talking about this – a year before the pandemic hit, at a mastermind in San Francisco and she was one of my immediate favorites and I was in love from day one.

So that’s my side of the story. For those of you that don’t know Wendy, Wendy Petties is the Date Your Money Coach, knows that the key to having everything you desire is to create a healthy and intimate relationship with your money, one where you feel clearer, confident and competent. She believes that the more you tune into pleasure, the easier it is to increase your money. After filing bankruptcy, she used her signature method, the Sexy Money lifestyle, which highlights her skills as an MBA, psychologist and a sex educator to grow her net worth to well over $1.3 million. She now gets to empower women entrepreneurs to totally transform how they think and feel about money so they can truly afford whatever they desire. The first step in this process is the Date Your Money workshop experience. Wendy is determined to increase the number of female entrepreneurs with a personal net worth of over $1 million. She has been featured in Essence magazine, Fast Company, sisters from AARP, NBC LX and o school. So welcome Wendy. I am so excited to have you here.

Wendy Petties  03:42

I am so excited to be here and it is a mutual love fest like we just met. I think we had been in some groups before but we met in person that time and it was just sheer love. And so I am grateful to be here with you today and lots has happened since we’ve seen each other.

Heather Pearce Campbell  04:01

A lot has happened. Before we went live, I was just telling Wendy that I was sitting here daydreaming about that San Francisco trip – right? Life was so good. It was like a beautiful, sunny weekend in San Francisco. Met a really fabulous intimate group of people that we got to spend all weekend with, I got out to see the city, I walked …

Wendy Petties 04:24

I had a massage.

Heather Pearce Campbell  04:26

Wendy was bragging about her massage. I walked 10 miles and then I needed a massage but it was awesome. It was so fun. And then, of course the whirlwind pandemic and life and Wendy, I know you’ve been through a lot in the meantime and oh! Well. Good Doggie.

Wendy Petties  04:42

That’s Jasper. He said hello to everybody to what kind of dog is he? He’s a Havanese. So he’s Cuban. He’s got a little sass and fiery in him too.

Heather Pearce Campbell  04:52

I love it. I love it. Well, Wendy, I would love for you to share a little bit about your origin story. I know, I mean, you’ve got an impressive resume and your background, you’ve got a lot going on in your background. I love that you are an MBA psychologist and a sex educator of all things like what a fabulous combo. Tell us how you got started in those areas?

Wendy Petties  05:18

Well, it goes back to the early 80s, I think I would would kind of think about that, you know, I’m 53 years old. Now. I’m a native New Yorker. And I always knew I wanted to work on Wall Street, at least I think I did. You know, like I thought at the time that I wanted to, but I was working before I went to go get my master’s. And I got assigned to a project that I now dubbed myself as the condom negotiator. Because I was, yes, the condom negotiator, I was helping women to navigate difficult conversations about condom usage during the height of the HIV and AIDS. And so that’s where I got a little comfortable talking about things that other people don’t talk about. And I also was trained in this way to put pleasure first. Now, I, when I went out to talk to people about this, they were not interested in the pleasure side of sex. And it really floored me. And that led me to my psychology degree because I was like, I want to understand why people do things and how they interact, if they’re not happy. And so that’s how I wound up getting the psychology degree. And I got an MBA, I worked on Wall Street, and hated it, hated it, but made a whole bunch of money. I need a whole bunch of money that I’m grateful for. I was able to buy my house, I was able to do all kinds of things. But my body wasn’t happy. And I became really, really sick. And so I left Wall Street and thought, Hmm, let me do something else. Because that’ll cure this in me. I went and worked for an airline. It was amazing, my dream job. But I wasn’t making any money. Yeah. And I still was sick. And I wound up being harassed at that job. And I left, and I was broken, broken, broken and needed to fill myself back up. And it was difficult. I had amassed $310,000 worth of debt, medical debt.

Heather Pearce Campbell 7:29

Oh, wow.

Wendy Petties 7:30

Because I wasn’t paying attention. I wasn’t paying attention to myself, I wasn’t paying attention to things that didn’t feel right. And when I left my dream job, I was forced out. So that was another turning point, I decided one, I’m never going to work for anyone else again. And two, I gotta find a way to fill myself back up. And so that so I went back to the basics, I went back to my sex education, training, about pleasure and about how to really navigate and check in with myself about what I want, what I don’t want. And that’s kind of how they all came together. And it’s it’s all me, you know, and that all of those pieces are important. All the highs and the lows brought me to this moment right here. And so that’s that’s kind of how it all came about.

Heather Pearce Campbell  08:16

Wow. I’m curious, the the part of you that is comfortable having the difficult conversations. Yeah. Where does that come from? Is that just part of who Wendy is, and always has been it? Was it something that you cultivated? Tell us a little bit about that.

Wendy Petties  08:33

I think it’s both. My mom tells stories that I was really, really independent. And really frank, even at about three years old, she tells a story that, you know, my mom was an educator, and is an educator and she was had my sister and I in the bathtub. And she was telling us that this that this is your collarbone or your clavicle, and these are this is your nose and these your nostrils, like it was really important for her to teach us the names of our body parts. And so she said, you know, and this and we’re gonna wash your vagina now. And so she washed our vaginas. And she told us this. It’s special, because only girls have them. And the next morning, I went to breakfast. And you know, my father was there. And I said, Papa, I don’t want you to be sad. And he said, Why would I be sad baby girl? And I said, because you don’t have a vagina. So he was like, I don’t even know how to handle that. And so I’ve been I’ve been just they allowed me to nurture that part of myself where I would just say things and not for shock value just because I was curious. And I think that I have been nurtured that part of me where people feel really safe and comfortable. I also think that I’ve had to, I’ve had to do it also because of some of the hard things that have happened because I didn’t want to be shamed by it. And so I took the opposite, like, I’m going to tell you about it and tell the truth about it. So that, you know, if you wanted to out me or you wanted to blame me or or blast it someplace, I would have some control over it. And so I do that for myself. You know, like I’ve had gastric bypass surgery, I’ve had I filed bankruptcy, you know what I mean? I’ve had an abortion, whatever you think about the things, that’s your thing, but I’m not going to be shamed about it. And so I do that for myself, but also to set a space for other people so that they can be true, because I do believe what where we are right now is a combination of all the amazing things, and all the things that we wish we had made other choices about. So that’s, I think that’s where it comes from.

Heather Pearce Campbell  10:49

Yeah. Well, it sounds like I mean, even from a young young age, you had a natural openness about you, and a willingness to, you know, to ask questions, you sound like you are also well supported by your parents and having

Wendy Petties  11:05

I got on their nerves. I will just tell you, sometimes they were horrified. But they never squash it, you know. So I’m grateful for that. I know that a lot of children get the you know, we want you to be seen and not heard, or that’s not appropriate to say or ask or whatever. And I didn’t I didn’t I don’t remember feeling that growing up, you know, even when they were like, oh, like, oh, oh, my goodness, Wendy, you know, here’s why you shouldn’t say that that loud. Or here’s why you should you can ask, but maybe someone doesn’t want to answer like, they would explain those things to me. And I would take it in, you know, and and and act appropriately. But act accordingly. Not even appropriately, but act accordingly. You know, because it wouldn’t squash me. Yeah, I’m grateful for that.

Heather Pearce Campbell  11:55

Yeah. Well, it is, you know, it is interesting to look at the circumstances that helped to create those who, let’s just say go against some of the norms go against some of the trends, right. I, you know, I think you and I are not too far apart in age were growing up, you know, girls, the culture is that, you know, girls shouldn’t be as forceful. Lisa certainly was, you know, when I was younger, I remember this older boy liking me and I did not like him at all. And I remember my mom who knew he was friends with his parents. The advice to me was like, Heather be nice. Yeah. Like don’t hurt feelings. Yeah. Right.

Wendy Petties 12:40

Yes. Yes.

Heather Pearce Campbell 12:41

And I look back at that, and my mom intended well, but I feel like and I remember feeling like at the time, that was entirely the wrong advice to give. Yeah. Yeah. Right.

Wendy Petties  12:53

It’s It’s so interesting that you said that, because I didn’t have perfect parents that knew how to do everything. There. There were some messages that I was like, Huh, you know, I mean, and like I said, they were embarrassed by me sometimes, you know, and they would cringe like, oh, you know, and they would apologize for me, whatever. But they did their best to not squash me, and not make me feel shamed, you know, long telling me the lesson in the ways that they could, but but society has created this whole, this whole, you know, rulebook for how women should behave. And my first company was called Good girls do

Heather Pearce Campbell  13:34

I love that.

Wendy Petties  13:35

And it was about sex and relationships, I was focused mainly on sex and relationships. And it was, it was like a, you know, like an affront, you know, like, girls do whatever the hell they want to do, you know, and so, and it came from that kind of, you know, well, I don’t know, if you should say it like that, or you should wear that or you should be, you should feel lucky, you know, that someone wants to date you or whatever, not checking in with yourself, you know, squashing your intuition and, you know, making nice and all of those things. And so I just, I don’t, I don’t agree with that. I don’t, I don’t, I think we can use those strengths over done also. And we can be really, you know, really masculine, and you know, like, I don’t need anybody, and I’m not subscribing to that either. But I think finding your space in the middle is really, really important as a woman as well, you have to be able to do that.

Heather Pearce Campbell  14:27

Absolutely. And I’ve watched the journeys, obviously, of women that I love of my sisters of myself, you know, it happens at different stages in life. And I think like so for different reasons, and for different reasons, out of different life experiences, but I am always curious for those who bucked the trend and did it early. You know, what helped cultivate that? Because I think it’s a really, really important lesson, especially for women. You know, society generally, and this carries over into business how we show up in our careers Right, not to be the squeaky mouse not to speak up, don’t be too bitchy, you know, grateful, grateful all of these things about, you know, really just going with the flow in order to fit in and not, you know, not rock the boat too much. The other question that came to mind when you’re describing your background is this idea of leaning into pleasure and you learning or sorting out that people did not want. And I can’t remember how you worded it, whether it was that they did not want to have the conversation? Or was because I’m my my question is, were they really avoiding pleasure or avoiding talking about it?

Wendy Petties  15:44

Well, I for these people, it was both both, it was both they they did not want to, you know, like, I remember vividly, like going in with my flip chart, and I was ready, I was in what I call my stupid 20s. And you listeners who are in your 20s may not think or know, but you’re probably in your stupid 20s too, because we learn so much more later. But I was in my stupid 20s And I went with, I’m going to help these people and I’m going to teach them and whatever. And they were like, Look, honey, honey, we’re not having sex with them. Because it’s about you know, like, being passionately kissing at kissed and all this, you know, like, No, we sleep with him, because he does XY and Z or he provides security or, you know, or he’s not that bad. Like, it wasn’t about pleasure.

Heather Pearce Campbell 16:35

It was like functional.

Wendy Petties 16:36

Yes. Transactional functional? Yes. And it blew my mind because I thought I knew everything. And I thought, What are you talking about? And so I so it was that, that they were like you’re wrong. And I And so let’s not even talk about that. But then they also didn’t want to even consider that that could be an option. Like they didn’t have the tools to consider that that was an option. So that started me on this quest about like, asking everybody I was like, are you having sex with someone that you don’t want to have sex with? Are you not having pleasure? Pleasure, like, you know, like, I remember vividly these conversations where people were like, what if I would ask, and there was more than one person there? Like, if I would ask my friends, they would act so horrified. And then they’d come in the bathroom, they’d be like, No, actually, you know, or sometimes, but I really hate when this happens, or I don’t like this or whatever. And I was like, Okay, here’s what you do. You don’t, you know, I mean, and so that really started the conversations and, and I have found that I just wrote an article for a magazine about the connection between pleasure and money. You know, how how, when we are in our confident, full up selves, we can negotiate all kinds of things, we can ask for what we want, we can raise our prices, we can decide, I mean, decide we’re going to do something different decide we’re not going to do something different. But it stems from competence and confidence to me is feeling juicy and yummy. You know, and that’s what what I’m talking about. It’s not sexual pleasure, although orgasms are wonderful. And there’s a whole scientific reason why women should be in tune to their orgasms. You know, it’s more creativity, more productivity, more focus, more confidence, all of those things. But most women are not having orgasms regularly. So we have to broaden this thought about pleasure. We have to think about, you know, do I like the pen that I’m using? Like, how does it feel in my hand? Do I? Do I want to have an apple? You know, I do

Heather Pearce Campbell  18:48

like the clothes that I’m wearing? How do they feel?

Wendy Petties  18:52

Or do I put on that bra? Again, where my boobs slipped through the bottom, or I’m tugging on the side or I am uncomfortable? Because I don’t have enough time? Or energy? Or, you know, or it’s not that bad? Like, do we do that? Or do we throw it out and say, You know what, I’m going to order a new bra. Or I’m going to make an ad and make an experience of bra shopping. How many people have gone to a beautiful place to buy a bra? The first time I did it? I was like, I can have champagne and chocolates. While I’m trying on fancy underwear. Right and get fitted by someone have someone take care of me. It is a beautiful experience. And even if you don’t because some people will be horrified. Oh my god, well, those places the bras cost $100 or whatever. Just do the experience. Hmm, and find out what that bra is that fits you perfectly, and find someplace else to buy it. If you don’t have the money right now,

Heather Pearce Campbell  20:10

right? Or just buy it? Yes. And ask yourself, How do you replicate that experience in your life in your business for others, right? So what I hear you saying is that sex is one way that we get to embody this, you know, sense of joy or pleasure or self attunement. And it’s just one of the way just one of the ways that it shows up for us. But yes, when we’re in and, you know, my goodness, I think anybody who’s been in any relationship that’s not the right fit or has things out of balance, or, you know, where people are not really attuned to themselves in the relationship, they can relate so much to what you described about, you know, the functional Nic, like, the ways that we can slip into autopilot. I’ll just call it autopilot. Auto.

Wendy Petties  21:04

Right. That’s a beautiful way of thinking about it. Because it takes away the judgment all Yeah, you know,

Heather Pearce Campbell  21:11

yes. Yeah. And I think also, there’s a sense for a lot of us humans to avoid things that are painful to look at, because we think if we look too hard at that thing, we’re gonna have to change it. Yeah. Yeah, right. Yeah. And that’s scary. That’s kittens rocking the boat that theory is

Wendy Petties  21:32

it is and, and I, I agree with that, and that’s part of the work that I do is, make it not so scary. I make it fun. And I make it in a in a in a safe space. You know, we we have a party, we talk about it, we align how we feel about our relationship with money with how we’re acting and behaving and showing up in our relationship with people. And so, you know, like, we prepare for our date, the date, your money thing, we prepare for it. And, you know, when people are like, I put on lipstick, you know, and and, you know, I mean, we’ve been in a pandemic, so, you know, like, when’s the last time that you bothered, you know, putting on lipstick, or that you bought, you know, we’ve had masks on, you know, but but this is about for you not about for anybody else to see. And, and if you don’t want to put it on, that’s a choice to now I don’t have to put on lipstick. Now I don’t have to put on heels. I don’t have to ever do that, again, if I don’t want to, but it takes us looking at it, and really assessing it. And once we can do those kind of things, we can move to the things that are a little more difficult, like, I’m going to open this bill. Yeah, I’m going to look in my account, I’m going to tally up how much money I owe, or how much money I made, or how much money I make. You know, and so that’s, that’s what I’m talking about. Like we got to fill ourselves up with little things. Yeah. So that it becomes second nature.

Heather Pearce Campbell  23:11

Yeah. Talk to me about when in your life, you made the connection between like how we relate to pleasure, sex, joy, whatever terminology people want to use, right? And our relationship with money.

Wendy Petties  23:29

Yeah, so I started out as a sex and relationship coach, and it was really fulfilling, you know, like, I was helping people have pleasurable experiences. And so whether it was, you know, getting out of a toxic relationship, or improving a relationship that was just so so or nurturing a great relationship, but it became pretty transactional for me too, because I was frustrated, because people were titillated by the juicy stuff, you know, they wanted to know, how do I give a good blow job? And I was like, well, let’s step back a second.

Heather Pearce Campbell  24:05

Let’s not start there.

Wendy Petties  24:06

Let’s not start there. Just Just so you know. And no shame about you wanting to learn and you wanting to do that. But for me, it’s about do you really want to give a blowjob? And is the person on the receiving end worthy of this gift? Yeah, we have to look at that. And I got over and over again. Oh, come on. Just teach me Oh, come on. And so it was surface and I was like, I’m not doing that anymore. I’m not. And so that was part of when I started shifting away from just doing that. But the real catalyst for pulling these two things together was my own my own story and my own journey. When I file bankruptcy. After being harassed at work. It was my lowest point. I was on antidepressants. I felt like my identity of my job had been taken away from me and I hope was I, I felt like, I’m smart. And I’ve made a whole bunch of money. And now I don’t have money. And I don’t know how to handle money. And I slowly started all of these things kind of being, you know, labeling myself with this. And so when I went back to the basics of, you know, let’s, let’s, let’s work on pleasure here, let’s work on joy, let’s work on this, I really had to pull myself out of depression and pull myself out of that. And I just started with little baby steps. And what I mean by baby steps is not little teeny, incremental steps. I mean, have you ever seen a baby try to get out a toy, they use any thing they have, okay, they’re gonna crawl, they’re gonna pull, they’re gonna whine, they’re gonna use you as a ladder. They’re gonna, you know, I mean, everything. And so that was the energy it was baby steps like that, like, I have to get out of this. Yeah. And so I just began doing practices, doing little habits. Like, okay, if I’m going to eat, what’s a better choice than I would have made? If I’m on if I was on autopilot? Yeah, you know, do I do I like this plate? Do I like this shirt, you know, it’s sorted, kind of building that kind of stuff. And then I was able to make other choices about my money, and make other choices about whether I wanted to buy that, whether I was buying it to fill something up in myself, or whether I was buying it, buying it for someone else to get attention or to get what I was craving, like, I started really listening to myself and tuning into it and seeing well, that doesn’t feel good. Well, that feels good. Let me do more of that. And so that’s how the connection came about. And so I shifted my business. I knew how to do the money stuff, I knew how to do the entrepreneurial stuff. And I almost went all the way to the other side, you know, like, Hey, let me teach you how to build a business. And that didn’t feel right, either. And so I’m fun. And I’m playful. And I’m joyous. And so I started talking about, like, how you handle your money could be, because I’m a psychologist also, could be kind of how you may interact in some of your relationships. I started talking about that. And so that’s how it really rose to the surface.

Heather Pearce Campbell  27:21

Hmm. Well, I mean, I suspected before I ask the question that it had to do with, you know, your personal story, and the thing that, you know, comes up time and again, are these hard turning points in our lives that really shape our next decisions of what we’re going to do and how we find joy in our work? And sounds like you went through a really tumultuous time with that period of harassment? And, you know, having to make a career change? Yeah, how did you get through that?

Wendy Petties  27:55

Oh so when it when you were just saying that what I was thinking is that it doesn’t stop, you know, there’s going to be something else, there’s going to be another tragedy, there’s going to be another disappointment, there’s going to be another amazing thing. All of these things are catalysts for, for changing, and we get, we get the opportunity to check back in. And I think like, as I look back at all of the things, you know, I do this exercise called a life chart, a life map. And it’s really like, you take a piece of paper and you put an x on one side and an X on the other. And then you draw a line, a curved line to connect them, and then you just start putting down and then that happened. And then that happened. And then that happened. And then that happened. And it’s amazing how these things that have happened in our lives, either to us or for us have have changed the path and the trajectory. Now we can sit in, you know, I was very sick. I had 11 surgeries in 11 years. And then I had spinal surgery. And then like, we could sit in all that heavy stuff. And we can also say, and, you know, I have written a book, and I have bought my house and I have no debt. And I, you know, and I’ve been loved really well. And I’ve traveled all over the world, you know, so we can get, you know, kind of this side or this side, you know, one one or the other. But I think that what helps me is it’s kind of funny, but I keep thinking of the weeble wobble weebles wobble, but they don’t fall down. Some people may not be old enough to remember this, but it was a toy that you know, would stand on the floor and it was weighted on the bottom, and you would just kind of bat it back and forth, and it would never fall down. And so when I’m feeling out of alignment, I remember that toy that I got to get back to center. And I have I have tools, I have things that I can do. And I have practices that I I have incorporated into my life. And I want to tell you a big secret and a big confession. It doesn’t always work. Yeah, my father died. He died suddenly. And I was floored. And I still am. And so yes, I have lots of tools. But some days, I am angry, and I am broken. And I am confused. And I’m stunned. And yet, I believe that there is a way through. But it’s not always pretty. And so I do my best. That’s all I can do. Yeah, that’s it.

Heather Pearce Campbell  30:53

Well, that, you know, the weeble wobble, I remember those. And growing up in a family of six kids, right, we had a variety of toys. That is a good reflection on life. Generally, it’s like you sharing your life mapping exercise, my husband and I were in therapy a few years back, and I laughed, because it ended up being a terrible kind of therapy. For us. It was like, you know, PTSD, and all sorts of things coming out of that therapy. But two good things happened. One, we learned our attachment styles as children, which really heavily influenced some of the early dynamics in our relationship. So we’ve been together for 11 years now. And, and we’ve learned so much, and I’m happy to say we’re in a much better place than we had been for quite some time. And the other thing we were we had to do as part of that therapy is create, like the equivalent of what you just described that life map, like our overlapping life maps, and like, documenting really all of the big moments, and it was just like that we will wobble like some really amazingly great ones and some tremendously hard, sour, heartbreaking, like all the the entire variety, right, the whole rainbow. And, and yet, it also was really like looking at that in kind of this visual way, was like this very strangely reassuring exercise of like, look what we’ve made it through. Yes, you know, and I think as humans, that’s, that’s all we can do. Like, look what we’ve looked what we’ve made it through, look what we’ve gone through, look how we’ve evolved and shaped ourselves and reeled in or

Wendy Petties  32:45

done to Yeah, no, I mean, I always tell the story. You know, I went to college, over 30 years ago. And when I go back to homecoming, I’m so excited to see those people. And I also am devastated each and every time. Because every. So inevitably, someone will say, Oh my god, I see one line, I see you doing big things. Oh my god. And then they’ll say, so are you married? Do you have kids? As though that is

Heather Pearce Campbell  33:19

like the point of arrival? Yes. Yeah.

Wendy Petties  33:21

And they negate everything that I done. They kind of say, you know, like, Oh, that’s wonderful. But, you know, and I, I just am so saddened by that. Because, you know, and then, you know, like, with my father dying, then they add, you know, and I’m so sorry about your dad, you know what I mean? So it’s these like, yeah, yeah, but you did these wonderful things. Oh, my God, this is horrible. But what you really should do Wendy is get married and have a baby. And I’m like, I’m 53 I’m not having a baby, first of all. And, and don’t you want to know how much I’ve been loved? Yeah, you know, and so I think we do that to ourselves. Also, it’s just like, with money. People either focus on I make all of this money, oh, my God, look how much I make. And they’re not talking about how much they owe, or they are devastated by I am drowning in debt, I can’t even take this, I can’t deal with this. I can’t, you know, and they don’t even think about the blessings that come from debt. And that they, they do own things and they do have things that that are a value and they are capable of earning money. And they do earn money. So I’m here to help us in every aspect of our lives, like, marry the two. You know, we have to Yeah, because that that combination is is who we really are and and, and, and, and helps us to get to the next wherever we want to go. Yeah,

Heather Pearce Campbell  34:53

well, and this idea that both the good and the bad, help us get to where we’re headed next and just become part have the experience. I mean, what you’re speaking about in your even recent experience since you and I met, right, I know you’ve been through so much, and I’m so sorry for the loss of your dad and, but a traumatic time for you. And I know many others who are listening, and I’ve had sudden losses. And, you know, it’s, it’s just a very challenging reminder that there’s never a point in life where we arrive, and we’re safe. And we’re protected in a bubble at unit Amin and I think that people strive to get to this level of like security or safety, or happiness, or like, you know, when the you’ve you’ve met standards in society that, you know, like putting assumptions on ourselves and other people about what arriving looks like, yeah, right. It’s just such a powerful reminder to step back and take those expectations back, take those assumptions back,

Wendy Petties  35:59

and, and to check in with yourself about how you feel about those things. You know, I mean, I had a discussion a couple days ago about six figures. And people don’t realize that six figures covers from $100,000 Up until bumping a million. So what does that really mean? What does that really mean for you?

Heather Pearce Campbell  36:26

Right, right. And I read a statistic, I don’t know why he popped up in my feed Dave Ramsey saying a whole ton of millionaires out there. Never have a six figure year. Yeah. Right. Like the things that we can do, even when we are not holding ourselves to somebody else’s standard.

Wendy Petties  36:47

Yes, yes. And I’m so glad that you brought that up, because I like to make the distinction. First of all, that this is what a millionaire looks like, this is what a millionaire sounds like, I have a net worth of over a million dollars, which is what makes me a millionaire. Right? My business has never cross the million threshold, I don’t know. And I want to I’m gonna look to see if, throughout all the years I’ve been in business, if I’ve earned a million dollars in my business, you know, like, that’s something that I just thought of now, like, I’m gonna look at it, but it doesn’t matter. It doesn’t matter. And I get to choose what I want to do. Because anything that I want to have means that I got to do something different, or behave in a way to get that. And I may opt to be like, No, I’m good right here. Because I don’t want to give up this or change this or do this. And, and it is a choice, but we get to make that choice. You get to do that. And we are not our businesses, and we are our businesses as well. That’s right, you know,

Heather Pearce Campbell  37:54

well, and this, this, you know, bringing a level of reflection and intentionality. I mean, I think, obviously, to our personal lives, but also to our work is so important because this this race that people are in to reach that next level, hit that next income bracket, like whatever it is, I’ve talked to so many people who’ve done that reached a new level of achievement in business and decided, you know, what, I had it so much better back there a few steps. Right, and then intentionally redesigned their business to recreate, actually, you know, an area of business that that they achieved on their way up. Yeah, you know, and so I think that people can literally kill themselves trying to get to those next levels, when the point that you made about, like, folks that, you know, talk about whatever revenues they’re making in their business, right, you could have a million dollar a year business, and barely be taking home. I mean, whatever number 15 100k. And somebody else could have a 350k a year business, a couple team members and still be taking home 150k a year. That’s a better business. That’s a better business talk. Yeah,

Wendy Petties  39:08

and for and that’s a better business model, but it might not serve you as the business owner. You know, like, what do you want to do? And you mentioned, Dave Ramsey and I, I am not really a fan of his No,

Heather Pearce Campbell  39:24

and I say, that’s why I said, I don’t know why he showed up in my feed, but I saw that quote, and I thought, you know, that is an interesting statistic.

Wendy Petties  39:32

Absolutely. And, and I, you know, like, I just believe that if we, we that we get to check in with ourselves, you know, we get to say, this is what I want to do, and this is not what I want to do. And so, you know, in mentioning Dave Ramsey, he has very specific, you know, steps and you should do this and whatever I’m over ever hear that about me? You know,

Heather Pearce Campbell  39:56

like, Snowball Method or whatever. Like everybody’s like, Oh, yeah, do Dave Ramsey, right?

Wendy Petties  40:01

Yeah, like I, I do believe in in those ways to, to eliminate or lessen debt. Like there are some ways and some tools and pathways, but how we feel about the debt is important. I also think that all debt is not bad, like, you know, so So I don’t agree with those things. And so you’ll never hear me say like, Oh, my God, your house debt is better than your credit card debt. Because what what, what happened with that credit card debt? What what is the blessing there? What did you get to do with that the fact that you could have that debt in the first place is a blessing in and of itself. And so so let’s not, you know, make your level of debt somehow be a reflection on your worthiness as a person, you know what I mean? And I don’t, so I don’t, I, somebody said, you know, this is not I’m not your average financial planner. But I’m not a financial planner. I’m a money and dating coach. But but but you know what I mean, you know,

Heather Pearce Campbell  41:00

Oh, absolutely. And I love your reframe around that of looking at what society might say, Oh, that’s a negative, or you shouldn’t have that much debt, or whatever, all the number of rules that we hear about money about other things, and looking at it from the perspective of what has that done for me, right? How has this served me? So I know some people who are like amazing gift givers, my mother in law, loved spoiling people, like when she was here on this planet, she, you would never see a Christmas without her overdoing it like big time. That was her love language. I’m sure she took on debt at times to do that. And it made her feel so happy now is that everybody’s path? No. But like my sister, and I have had these conversations. People also don’t need to behave the same with money. Because some people are just simply manifestors – like they are going to do better. Having somebody else else help them manage their money, because they can go out and create it and make it and attract it and create all sorts of value. That’s a different person than somebody who has the personality where they need to be really fastidious around their money.

Wendy Petties  42:12

Yes, but we need to look at that and decide what we want, and why and how we’re going to get it and what feels good. And, you know, I mean, I had a client this morning, who was saying, you know, like, I sell the she sells nails, you know, like the, those nails, the acrylics or whatever. And she’s a doctor. And so she’s been trying to build her business around her practice. And she’s like, I wish it could be like when I’m selling the nails. So he was like, why couldn’t it be? Yeah, she was like, Well, what do you mean, she was like, I go on. And we, we play and we have games, and we have this. And I was like, Well, why can’t your workshops be like that? And she was like, oh, and so I told her about how I do it. And it’s fun. And there’s games, and there’s prizes and all this stuff. And we’re still learning and we’re still doing and we’re still diving deep and and we get to some deep stuff. But it doesn’t have to be and that’s that’s it doesn’t even have to be fun. That’s how I do it. Somebody else may be like, I don’t want to do that. I think it’s okay to have people be like, yeah, Wendy, I really you’re too much for me. Okay, no problem. You don’t I mean, I think that we get to do what we want to do. And all too often we forget that. We forget that. Yeah, really?

Heather Pearce Campbell  43:27

Yeah, we go back to autopilot, or we follow somebody else’s rules, because we go Oh, yeah, that makes sense. And I haven’t really created my own rules around that. Yeah, yeah. So share with us because I know your work has evolved. Even in the time that I have met you and known you. You’re doing something now called the date your money workshop, right? You want to tell us a little bit about what that work looks like currently, and who your clients are?

Wendy Petties  43:54

Oh yes, yes, yes, I am. So in love with it. It’s really an experience. So it is the main highlight is a full day where we go from? Are you even ready to have a relationship with your money to a full state of bliss? Like what would it look like to have that relationship of your dreams with your money, you know, and the day before, we have happy hour because you know, before you go on a date, you want to talk about it, you want to plan and you want to think about how it’s going to be and all of that. So that is like the Friday night. And then Saturday night, we have the full day where we’re doing this date. And then we have an after party. We have an after party, and the after party consists of coaching and q&a. And then we have a dis your date session. Because what you will learn in that day is how to really set yourself up for success with and not just success, but joy in how you interact with your money. And so you have a week to do it. And then you come back and you delete your date. And so that’s really the experience and I make it interactive and I make it experiential because it can be such a heavy thing, and people are afraid and anxious. And so that’s what I do. And that’s the first part, a lot of people say my work is deep and doable. Let’s get through the deep part. First, we’ll worry about the doable part, after which I’ll introduce you to during the date, you know, at the end of the date, I’ll tell you what the next steps are. But this is a contained experience. And so if you never decided to go further, it is forever changing life changing, you will transform how you think and feel about money. It is for women, and particular women entrepreneurs, and cars, because women have different different needs, and different stories and different challenges. Okay. And the reason I tie it to dating and relationships is because you’ll learn things about your relationship styles and your dating styles that you never thought about. And, and in relation to the money. And so it is it is a tool for all of that. And it is a very, very fun experience.

Heather Pearce Campbell  46:06

Well, I mean, I love the idea of fun, and money, especially education, around money about how it can be different about how to relate to your money. And for people, I’m sure there are some that are like, wait a relationship with your money. But if you think about it, I was tired. Like I was talking to my sister the other day, and she is dating somebody who’s fabulous with money. Like he’s always just had a head for managing it. Well, he’s you know, he’s very structured, he’s a good decision maker around money. My sister is like, well, in a lot of ways, like you fun, brilliant, very magnetic, she wants to just be out making the money and not really worrying too much about the rest. Yeah. But she realizes like, she has an opportunity to uplevel her own skills around money management. And we were talking about it and she’s like, you know, for so long, because of the way we were raised because of the bill Alcala money lectures we got as kids, uh huh, like money just never felt fun to her. It felt stressful, it felt like she wasn’t good at it as a kid, she’s now really evolved, you know, really into herself. And she’s fabulous. She’s in sales. And she’s phenomenal. But I think there are a lot of people there where they’ve made leaps in certain areas of their life, and they’re really ready for that money story, that money relationship to catch up to the level of success they feel in other places at right. Yes, I assume those are your people.

Wendy Petties  47:42

Those are my people absolutely. Like, I’m like, oh, I want to meet your sister, because I could just give her some tips. And she would have a wonderful time wonderful experience doing this because it doesn’t, you know, she could be making $300,000 and still have these things that tell her that earning money has to be hard, and we gotta hustle, or money doesn’t grow on trees, or every time I have it, it’s slipped through my fingers. And it is it or you know, all these things that we got to break those habits, it’s the same way that we think about our relationships, you know, like, a wife is supposed to do this, I should be able to cook, I should be able to do this, oh, a mother doesn’t do this. You know, I’m the baby. So I should do this or shouldn’t do this, like, all these roles and all these things? Like I’m not saying they’re not true. I’m just saying they may not be true for you.

Heather Pearce Campbell  48:35

And they don’t have to. They don’t really have to be.

Wendy Petties  48:39

Yes. You know, and so yeah, that’s what we’re talking about. That’s what I’m talking about. So it’s a fun time. And and it’s it’s really transformational. So I just did the last one I do the monthly. I just did the last one and two people. One person, like tripled her rates. She was like, I deserve this. And so she posted on Instagram, she’s like my workshop that was $197 is now 597 for the two of them. Uh huh. And I was like da, and someone else did their first real, you know, she does face reading. And I was like, Oh my God, how exciting is that? And she did her first real and she works with people who who date she who she uses face reading to help people to navigate the dating scene. And I was like, How fascinating she was like, but you know, people don’t understand this and don’t want to know about this. And I’m like, but But you love it. You love it. Yeah. You know, that’s what we’re trying to do. Like get clear about where you really are get confident and feeling good. So you can do what you want to do. And then we’ll work it worry about the competence, like what you actually need to do and need to learn and all those things. As an individual and as a business owner. We’ll get there but we got to clear out this stuff. We got to do it, you know. Yeah,

Heather Pearce Campbell  49:56

I love that. Well, and I know we’re going to share links to that. The date your money club and some of the other things that you want to share. For folks that are listening, where do you would like for them to connect with you? Are you online? Do you want them to go to your website, show us where you are.

Wendy Petties  50:13

So I am known as the Date Your Money coach. And that’s how you find me on Instagram and on Facebook. I’m Wendy Petties, I’m open to people sending me messages on my personal profile in Facebook, I have a free group called the date your money, the free community. But most often people reach out and go to the website, which is date your money club, that’s how you find out about the Your Money, workshop experience. And so any of those things, places people can find me, I am always open to having conversations because this is this is my mission I want. I want women to feel empowered and feel juicy and yummy. And you know, kind of flirt a little with their money so that they can get the things that they want they need. So Oh, that’s my true true hope. True wish.

Heather Pearce Campbell  50:59

Oh, I love it. Well, in my opinion, there’s nobody more perfect than you to deliver that message. And that’s important for people. If you’re listening, hop over check out Wendy’s links, I’m going to share them all on her podcast notes page, which you can find at Legal website Forward slash podcast. Wendy, what final? Either tip, or takeaway would you like to leave people with today?

Wendy Petties  51:24

So my final tip is really just check in with your body. Remember, your body knows, and not in a, you know, like a weird kind of way, you know, like, I’m not really woowoo I’m kind of Woo. You know, like, I’m a New Yorker. So I’m a straight shooter. No, and you know, how your body feels when you meet people. When you listen to something, when you taste something, when you look at something like go through the five senses and just just listen for what you feel. And then do something about it. Do more of it if it feels delicious. And if it doesn’t do less, do less.

Heather Pearce Campbell  52:08

So simple and yet so complex, at the same time, right to pay attention. But so I love that. I love that tip. We have not had that tip on the podcast before. Awesome. Yes, Wendy, thank you so much. Such a joy to connect with you here today. I’m so excited for people to hop over and get to know you better.

Wendy Petties  52:25

Thank you so much. I appreciate you having me here. It was such a delight to connect with you again. And thank you.

Heather Pearce Campbell  52:33

Thank you, of course. See you again soon. All right, take care.

GGGB Outro  52:39

Thank you for joining us today on the Guts, Grit & Great Business™ podcast. We hope that we’ve added a little fuel to your tank, some coffee to your cup, and pep in your step to keep you moving forward in your own great adventures. For key takeaways, links to any resources mentioned in today’s show and more, see the show notes which can be found at Be sure to subscribe to the podcast and if you enjoyed today’s conversation, please give us some stars and a review on Apple podcasts, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts so others will find us too. Keep up the great work you are doing in the world and we’ll see you next week.