Creating a Resilient Mind

We welcome back a true luminary to our podcast for the second time – the renowned Dr. John Demartini. A polymath and globally recognized human behavior expert, Dr. Demartini’s work has inspired listeners across 100 countries. As he shares his extensive wisdom, he empowers us to master every facet of our lives.He is also the CEO and Founder of The Demartini Institute, an education company focused on human behavior and the application of principles to assist people solve their personal and professional issues in order to grow and expand in all 7 areas of their lives.

With a mission to revolutionize personal growth, Dr. Demartini has synthesized over 30,650 books, crafting a curriculum that spans from transformative seminars to corporate empowerment. His groundbreaking Demartini Method has guided countless individuals to unravel hidden patterns within chaos, igniting profound life shifts.

This visionary genius has penned 40 self-development books, including the renowned ‘The Breakthrough Experience®.’ His insights, coupled with 100+ online courses, reveal a new paradigm for humanity based on universal laws. 

Join us in our conversation as Dr. Demartini shares  insights on the resilient mind, the impact of dysmorphic perspectives, and his personal journey from reading challenges to empowering others through teaching. Discover the seven secret treasures that unlock your inner potential by living authentically, prioritizing what truly inspires you, and realigning with your values. And explore how comparing ourselves to others can hinder personal growth, the importance of understanding your own values, and insights into body dysmorphia.

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Join us for the first conversation on GGGB with Dr. John Demartini here in Episode 98.

Takeaways & quotes you don’t want to miss from this episode:

  • What is a universal law?
  • How to deal with body dysmorphia?
  • What if you are perfect?
  • How can you dissolve anxieties and stress, and be resilient?
  • “People compare themselves to other people because they don’t think they have the knowledge they think they do, or they look at what they’ve accomplished in business.”

“The more positive it is, the more you fear its loss. The more negative it is, the more you fear its gain. So if you’re completely neutral, you don’t have a fear of loss or gain.”

Dr. John Demartini

Check out these highlights:

  • 21:07 The seven secret treasures are…
  • 23:19 What is the biggest struggle the people usually face?
  • 38:25 “Stress disorders are incomplete information.”
  • 41:21 How Dr. Demartini defines depression. (And why he thinks it’s your friend, not your enemy.)
  • 50:52 You never make a mistake when you are in your own values. (Mistakes happen when you are injected by other people’s values, or you try to get others to live by your values).
  • 53:42 Dr. Demartini’s final thought for the listeners. (Recorded on Valentine’s Day).

How to get in touch with Dr. Demartini on Social Media:

You can also contact Dr. Demartini by visiting his website here.

Special gift to the listeners: You can book a Free Mini Power Assessment Session where you’ll come away with a 3-step action plan and foundation upon which to empower your life.

Imperfect Show Notes

We are happy to offer these imperfect show notes to make this podcast more accessible to those who are hearing impaired or those who prefer reading over listening. While we would love to offer more polished show notes, we are currently offering an automated transcription (which likely includes errors, but hopefully will still deliver great value), below:

GGGB Intro  00:00

Here’s what you get on today’s episode of Guts, Grit and Great Business®…

Dr. John DeMartini  00:04

So anytime you go around the wheel of those seven areas and exaggerate somebody, you’re gonna get a dysmorphic perspective of yourself. Or if you look down of some, you’re gonna exaggerate, anytime you exaggerate or minimize yourself relative to other people, you just dissolved your authenticity, and put on masks and personas and facades, and there’s no way that facades will ever be as empowering as the authentic you.

GGGB Intro  00:29

The adventure of entrepreneurship and building a life and business you love, preferably at the same time is not for the faint of heart. That’s why Heather Pearce Campbell is bringing you a dose of guts, grit and great business stories that will inspire and motivate you to create what you want in your business and life. Welcome to the Guts, Grit and Great Business® podcast where endurance is required. Now, here’s your host, The Legal Website Warrior®, Heather Pearce Campbell.

Heather Pearce Campbell  00:57

Alrighty, welcome. I am Heather Pearce Campbell, The Legal Website Warrior®. I’m an attorney and legal coach based here in Seattle, Washington, serving online information entrepreneurs throughout the US and the world. Welcome to another episode of Guts, Grit and Great Business®. I am super excited to bring back for round the number two, Dr. John Demartini today. Welcome, Dr. Demartini.

Dr. John DeMartini  01:26

Thank you for having me again.

Heather Pearce Campbell  01:28

Absolutely. We were just chatting before I hit record and Dr. Demartini is 12 hours away. I’m starting my morning at nine you know it’s 930 here and it’s 9:30pm where he is and he says he has about five or six more hours to go. So kudos to you really living and demonstrating your mission. And I remember that the last time we spoke, you commented at a point that you know made me laugh about other things, you would outsource in your life if you could, but that you haven’t done groceries or you know this list of things since you were 27 and I thought man, he really demonstrates his priority. So I truly love that. For those listening that don’t know, Dr. John Demartini. Dr. Demartini is a world leading human behavior specialist researcher, best-selling author, educator and founder of The Demartini Method, a revolutionary tool in modern psychology. He has authored 40 books that have been translated into 39 different languages and presented his insights alongside some of the world’s most influential people, including Sir Richard Branson and Deepak Chopra. Dr. Demartini’s cutting edge methods are the culmination of almost five decades of research across disciplines including physics, philosophy, theology, metaphysics, psychology, astronomy, mathematics, neurology and physiology. He has synthesized these teachings and incorporated them into his work on human values. Dr. Demartini shares his life, business, financial relationship and leadership empowerment strategies with people all over the globe, enabling them to transform their lives according to their highest values, and create their life masterpiece. I’ll put a plug for your previous episode, which is episode number 98, called The Demartini Method. And I know we chatted a bit about that, in that episode, I know we really dug into your background, you shared a bit about your life story. I’m going to invite people to go back and visit that episode for all the details. But would you share a brief overview to catch some people up who are going to be new to you and your story in your work? Give us a brief overview of your background.

Dr. John DeMartini  03:41

I started out with learning challenges. I was told in first grade I would never be able to read or write, speak or communicate effectively, probably not amount to let you go very far in life. I made it through school with the help with smart kids by asking him questions, what words I could understand. I ended up dropping out. So I was a street kid starting at age 13. I was also a surfer. I picked up surfing in Texas of all places when I was nine. So 13, I was a vagabond beach kid and street kid. 14, I hitchhiked out to California and down in New Mexico to surf. 15, I moved by myself over to white so I could ride big waves lived under a bridge and a park bench and a bathroom and abandoned cart and have social climbing and then nearly died at 17. And my life changed the night I met a gentleman who was speaking at a little yoga class that I had been told to go to. And one night that one man with one message and literally one hour just absolutely catalyzed a new shift in belief that I could possibly learn to overcome my learning problems and to learn to read and someday become intelligent. So I after first failing trying to go back to school, I made a decision that I was going to go and read by dictionary and overcome my dyslexia and learning problems. And with the help of my mom, I memorized 30 words a day, until I had over 20,000 words in my head. And I started to excel. And then I just absolutely fell in love with reading and learning. And I’ve never stopped. And that was over 50 years now. And I was told I would never read. And I’ve now been blessed to read over 30,700 books still counting. And I was told I would never write. And I’ve definitely written well over 100 books, with all the textbooks and manuscripts and stuff like that just signed a 10 book deal just the other day. And they said I would never mounting thing I’ve been blessed to be financially independent multiple times over to never go very far, I’ve traveled over 20 million miles by flights. And I don’t even know how many 1000s of miles on my ship. And they said, never communicate. I’ve reached billions now with all the forms of media that are available to the world. So just in case anybody may be listening, who was told whatever by somebody that you may have given authority to the very thing that you’ve been told that you might not ever do, maybe the thing you’re destined to do. In my case, at least that’s what happened. So I’m very grateful for my first grade teacher who told my parents that this is all going to not work out. I wish I could hug her because I think that void was what I needed in my life. But today, I just love researching, writing, traveling and teaching. That’s really pretty well all I did I don’t have much else I’m great at other than that, that’s that I’m pretty good at that. But the rest of it I delegate, I even have a clock change or now.

Heather Pearce Campbell  06:34

Block changer. Oh, well that you know that point of delegating really stood out to me. I mean, I was commenting on it, you know, you’re right at the start. And that just the clarity that you approach your life with. And I think one of your I’m sure many superpowers is really your master learner. You’ve synthesized all of this information and information that has come from some of the best teachers in the world. Right. So your own but but many others, too, including the greats. And I think the massive benefit that people have who follow you who read your books, is that synthesizing all this information down into something that is accessible, actionable, understand, like not everybody can do that. Not everybody can take the amount of teachings that you have studied over the years, and I’ll just call it synthesize, for lack of a better term was the was your desire to share it just based on your own transformational experience, right? Because I think some people are learners, but they don’t have this massive desire to synthesize and distribute the information to other people.

Dr. John DeMartini  07:50

I don’t remember what I said on the last one. So if I say something that’s similar, please. Right. That’s the right. Oh, is the night I met this teacher that inspired me. November 18 1972. He mentioned the word universal laws has sounded cool. I didn’t know what that meant. Later after I started to learn how to read and started reading dictionaries, I started looking at what exactly is a universal law. And it referred me to Aristotle’s natural laws. And it led me in a little bit of investigation to a thing called the logos, which is almost a philosophical religious term that predates even Christianity, which meant the reason hidden order or the word of the universe, you might say. And so I got inspired. And I started going through a dictionary, and an encyclopedia said, and I looked up every form of discipline and ology that a human being could study, because I thought, if I could get a list of all the alphabetical list of all the different disciplines and ology somebody could study, and if I could study those, I could find the most universal principle, most universal law that would be applicable to all of those disciplines. That was my assumption when I was 18. So I made a list of all these disciplines, right? astronomy, geology, mathematics, physics, chemistry, I mean, I 300, up I have now written about studied and outlined, and I made it a goal to, to read at least 100 books and each of them. That was the objective, because I figured if I had 100 books in there, I would have the equivalent of a PhD in that area. Because that’s basically what I found, particularly start overlapping and they start overlapping. So I had an agenda to try to devour that, learn that and find the most common universal laws I could universal principles. And there are definitely universal principles. One of the most significant one is the law for one the many, from the one comes the many from the many come the one. So if we put into astronomy, from the one to many, you have a point source of light radiating out to an infinite number of radii one to many, but you can have that reversed another inverse square law you can have gravity go from an infinite no radii come down to a point, like a singularity. So that law, the one to many also applies to sociology, monarchy, democracy, or you know, a dictator and a democracy, some kind of thing. It also applies to relationship when you’re dating the men or you’re looking for the special one. But once you get the one, you wonder about the many. It’s also called peace and war, unity, diversity. It’s called a naturalism building something from many parts and catabolism, taking the parts, you know, breaking something down into many parts the other way. So this law of chemistry, attraction repulsion has many ways of overlapping it. So there’s hundreds in the disciplines, there’s hundreds of ways of saying that one law, if you understand that one law, and trace it back in history to Heraclitus, and permittees, and some of the earliest Greek philosophers, and then over to Egypt, and then to severity, you can see that it’s gone all the way through time as far as its history, even into China and Indian agent. So I wanted to understand what are the universal laws to build a foundation of knowledge on that will stand the test of time, that way I could pass on something to my students that they could rely on. And that 100 years from now that material that I presented will still be solid. I wonder if I want to build something that didn’t want something fleeting, I didn’t want some fat. I didn’t want some fantasy. I wanted something that was solid that you could build and rely on the principle. So that’s started off at age 18. I asked my mom I was I was, but right before my 19th birthday, I, I went to my mom, and she was so inspired that I during that year, I was learning how to read. You have no idea how much it meant to her to me. She helped me a lot. But she said to me, you know, it’s coming up on your birthday because I was born on Thanksgiving Day. And Christmas coming in the next month. What would you like for your birthday for Christmas? And I said, Mom, I want the greatest teachings on the face of the earth by the greatest writer, the greatest writing is written by the greatest minds who ever lived across the planet, in every discipline I can get my hands on. And she said, Are you sure you don’t want a t shirt?

Heather Pearce Campbell  12:10

Come on, can you be just like a normal kid?

Dr. John DeMartini  12:15

I said No mom, I could care less about a t shirt. At the time I was the minimum lesson just had a yogi outfit on it. I didn’t care about anything else that reading it. Because I was thirsty. You know, when you found out you can read after years of not knowing you could. It’s really powerful and really stuck. So I said, Okay, I just want I want and she goes let me see what I can do. So she contacted my uncle, who was a professor at MIT chemists, physicist, a bright guy, who I remember called, I call him uncle Ralph. He’s passed away now. But as a gift, on a flatbed truck, he sent two giant six by six by six foot wooden crates to our house. So with 1000s of books for your library…

Heather Pearce Campbell  12:58

You were speaking his language,

Dr. John DeMartini  13:00

Oh, man, I went out there with a crowbar and open up all those crates, they literally put it into the ground. And I carried as many as I could into my room. And I organized them in my room. And I had this friggin library in my room. And I had this little yoga mat in the center, and I could face sunrise for a Sun Salute. And I spent my days pretty well 1820 hours a day reading. If I wasn’t going if I was going to school, I’d read on the way there back, I was reading every minute I could trying to inculcate and you know, absorb, and trying to find these these universal principles, I believe that the people deserve to master life. I wanted to, I wanted to be a master, whatever that man, it sounded cool. So I started organizing life into the seven areas of life, spiritual, mental, career, financial, family, social and physical. I said, I want to know everything that we can humanly know about those areas. And I want to gather and organize and integrate information to help people empower all those areas. And so I’ve been for 50 minutes working on that.

Heather Pearce Campbell  14:02

Well, it’s amazing to me that, you know, at a really pivotal point where you shifted from not being able to read your whole life to that point to suddenly understanding that you could read to immediately it sounds like immediately also having the belief that not only could you read, but you were going to teach other people like for you to even have that mission, you had a belief that you are going to take a message to the world.

Dr. John DeMartini  14:29

I’d like to share something that I just got last night. Well, it sits in my office, but my daughter sent it to me. And when I was 17 years old, and I met Paul Bragg had a vision that night and I was presenting in Melbourne, Australia over a decade ago, one evening to about 1600 people. And I was asked to share that vision. And I did and I got tears in my eyes when I shared it because it was such a meaningful moment. And a guy afterwards came up to me at the end of my talk and it came up to me since I’m a pain He would love to paint your vision. Oh, wow. So he did. And this is what he painted. Hmm.

Heather Pearce Campbell  15:07

Yeah. And for folks, if you are listening to the podcast you can pop over to because we also will publish this on YouTube. If you want to describe it. Dr. Martini, it looks like you standing in front of a pulpit. Right? And it’s I know the focus is going a little bit in and out. I can’t tell if it’s people down below or if it’s just a big open space. There we go. Oh, yep, yep, yep, yep, I see that. Definitely people down below looks like it’s 1000s, possibly millions, right? And kind of on a big. What would you call that? 

Dr. John DeMartini  15:43

What I saw is me standing first walking through a stone archway. Coming down the store church way out onto a balcony about 40 feet above a giant square that had over a million people in it with an iconic buildings from every major city in the world. And the name of the vision is a man with a message and a vision, a man with a vision and a map. And so that painting, it sits in my office five foot by four foot it sits in my office

Heather Pearce Campbell  16:09

Oh, wow it’s big! Yeah, well, there’s some significant architecture happening in the background. I wasn’t sure how to describe it because it looked mixed. But I was like, there’s some Greek architecture in there. Right? There was some phenomenal features. I love that vision. And it sounds like your goal was really, I mean, from the beginning to help people leave magnificent lives.

Dr. John DeMartini  16:34

That’s the thing that brings a tear to my every day.

Heather Pearce Campbell  16:37

And my assumption is that just based on how much you lived in struggle, until that pivotal point of really shifting into your own individual magnificence.

Dr. John DeMartini  16:49

Well, I don’t want to say I struggled that that wouldn’t be exactly I didn’t have learning. I learned how to surf. I got magazines and surf movies and surf books, actually.

Heather Pearce Campbell  17:03

Right. So you know, you’re on your own path. Maybe the more correct like is, is the perception. Right? So somebody hearing your story about the early childhood, both physical and educational struggles, right? The independence, right, the running away from home, the living on your own, from an outward perspective, somebody might perceive some of that as not only a unique path, but maybe a uniquely hard one.

Dr. John DeMartini  17:34

Well, there were definitely moments I mean, there’s no food and your family and all that. But I tell you that the educational experience of that and the people I met, I met Howard Hughes when I was 14 years old, and he gave me information that I was astonishing at 14 and he took me to a library and told me to learn how to read. Timothy Leary at 14, I met some of the top surfers in the world, I met some celebrities. I mean, there was an adventure and there was pain and pleasure there was all this got stabbed. I almost drowned. I mean, I got shot at I mean, I’ve had lots of experiences. But I don’t want to say that it was suffering, because I was on an adventure that was at my own will to go into surf. But I was an adventurous kid. And my dad did everything he could to try to prepare me for that. When I was nine I was I had to work around the neighborhood to pay for clothing, food and rent. He was trying to prepare me for street life because he knew I couldn’t read. Yeah, so I don’t want to say it was all painful because it was an adventure. And there were a lot of shaky moments. But there was also amazing moments in my life.

Heather Pearce Campbell  18:47

All right, let’s pause for a moment and hear from today’s sponsor. Are you an entrepreneur who is on track to make a million or more in revenue this year in your business? If so, your business is likely facing a host of legal issues that are right for support. And if you are like so many of my clients at this level, you are likely tired of taking unnecessary risks and a DIY approach to legal support in your business. You’re ready to tackle the mess of legal documents, six legal gaps that you have. You want to take care of your IP, your clients, your business, and avoid unnecessary conflict and risk in the process. If this is you, and beyond just being an entrepreneur, you are a catalyst and are committed to your mission and your impact in the world. I invite you to get in touch. You could be a fit for my catalyst club, a small business legal support program that I designed for my high level clients. Just like you, you can find out more at Just click on the Work with Me tab to learn more about the catalyst club and other ways that I support my clients, a fabulous group of world changing entrepreneurs, I might add, you’ve done the initial legwork in your business. And now you want to soar. And you know that you can only go as high and as far as your legal foundation lets you go. So get in touch today, hop over to, click on the Work with Me tab. And if you have any questions, get in touch through the Contact link on my site, I look forward to connecting it would be a joy to support you on your path.

Heather Pearce Campbell  18:47


Heather Pearce Campbell  20:31

Especially in light of your wise and broad perspective. Now I know you see the balance in all things, right. So of course, with your perspective, it’s a balanced experience, which I think is a challenge for a lot of people to achieve. I love you know, you’ve you’ve written a vast number of books, I know that you had one that recently came out towards the end of last year. So end of 2022. And you’ve got another one that’s right around the corner. Right. So we have the seven secret treasures, I’d love for you to tell us. And I’m curious if that relates to the seven areas that you just touched on?

Dr. John DeMartini  21:06

Yes, the seven secret treasures is how to access the power you have inside for each of these areas. Obviously, any areas that if you don’t empower people will overpower you. So if you don’t empower yourself intellectually be told what to think you know what empire stuff in business should be told what to do. You don’t empower ourselves financially until what your worth, and empower ourselves in relationship you’ll be how you doing around the house. If you don’t empower yourself socially, it’d be misinformed by social propaganda, if you don’t even power by yourself physically and be told what drugs are taken organism, if you don’t empower yourself spiritually ill, you’ll have some dogma from a geocentric world of Aristotle or something of the past. I’m a firm believer that you have the capacity to some extraordinary each of those areas. And when you ask men and women, what are they looking for in a relationship, they’re looking for somebody that’s fit, who’s intelligent, that’s ambitious, that has resources that cares about them, that has Social Savvy, that’s inspired. So the whole work is better. And so the seven secret treasures is how to access the potential you have inside through living congruently in alignment with who you authentically are, and following a mission that does inspire you, and prioritizing your life and how you can empower all seven areas of life doing that it’s a really, it’s not a huge book, but it’s a concise book, on tangible things you can do to empower those areas. And it’s already got a nice little review. So I’m very pleased with it, and thankful that we’re able to get it out.

Heather Pearce Campbell  22:35

Yeah, I love that. Well, you said you’re averaging three books a year, which is phenomenal. I’m curious, because assuming that the audience that you’re speaking to, right, I work with entrepreneurs, a lot of them are very conscious entrepreneurs. But we still fall down, right? People still struggle, even when they are on the path of growth and seeking knowledge. Where do you see in your work, because you speak people every day on these topics? Right? And I know you lead seminars and you I mean, your mission is all about teaching, writing and speaking. Where do you see people facing the biggest struggles? Where do we have opportunities to correct ourselves even when our hearts in the right place, and we want to be taking the right steps.

Dr. John DeMartini  23:19

The number one thing that I see people doing is comparing themselves to others, instead of comparing their own daily actions to what they value most. So if an individual doesn’t feel their day with high priority actions that are deeply meaningful and inspiring, and are fulfilling to them, their days designed to fill up at low party distractions, that disempower them. And that’s primarily because they’ve looked at somebody and thought they are more intelligent, they’re more successful, they have more wealth, they have more stable relationship, they have more social influence, they’re more physically fit or attractive, or they’re more spiritually aware. And the moment they compare themselves to another individual and minimize themselves, particularly through social media, they’ll beat themselves up and they’ll and then the moment they do, they’ll tend to inject the values and inculcate what they think they ought to be and should be and supposed to be in God and be and have to be and all these imperative inputs instead of honoring who they are, and they’ll cloud the clarity of who they are, and hold themselves back. Because anytime we’re not living by high priorities, we procrastinate, hesitate and frustrated, we devalue and deep appreciate who we are. Or we go the other extreme, we meet people and we look down on me think I’m too proud to admit what I see in these mortals down below. And we exaggerate ourselves by looking down on people and then we tried to use should you ought to be and waste our time futilely trying to get other people to live in our values, or futilely trying to live in other people’s values. Instead of be honoring our own and letting other people on their own and learning the art of communicating what you value in terms of what they value. So both people can wins with a sustainable fair exchange. And so people are comparing themselves to other people and trying to get others to live in their values, or they’re trying to live in other people’s values instead of honor their own. And that’s one of these things that that robs people of their magnificence, the magnificence of who you truly are, which means the expression of what you value most in your life is far greater than all those fantasies of projection and injection that you might try to pose or impose. And so I tell people that let’s find out what you’re committed to let’s find out what your life is truly demonstrating your spontaneously called to do. And let’s honor that.

Heather Pearce Campbell  25:28

So and I love this because I’ve been through your values exercise, right. And if you’re interested, we’ll share links to Dr. Demartini is a website, I believe it’s right on the front page, you just scroll down and you can find more information about your values exercise, is it the case that people often have their own values wrong? Like they think they understand what their values are, but they’re not really correct about that.

Dr. John DeMartini  25:54

I’ve been doing value determination process for 45 years of my 50 years of teaching, I’ve only found one woman in all those 45 years that knew and was congruent in alignment with what they valued. Those people have a distorted view of who they are. And let me give you a reason why. And I’ve narrowed this down. This is pretty solid, I met this woman who was a supermodel, and on a Richter scale of one to 10. She was about 100. She was very stunning. She was off the charts, she was voted as the most beautiful woman in the world by about eight magazines. But when I had her come in as a client and attended some of the programs, he admitted privately that she had Body Dysmorphia syndrome. And she was minimizing her body and couldn’t see her own beauty, and was wanting to do what she could to help other young girls who are having that, you know, to help them and what we narrowed it down which and we also dissolved it. By doing the the method that I developed, what she was doing is, let’s say there’s a dozen women in a runway and modeling. And she saw somebody that had thicker hair than her. Now the overall picture if we took the thighs and the breast and the buttocks and the abs in the eyes in the face, and you take the entire package, the girl doesn’t overrule her, but her hair sticker. So she targeted that one little bit I and she minimized her hair. Even though she had beautiful hair. It wasn’t as thick and as shiny as this girl’s. So she was concentrating on the infatuation with that one piece of that girl, even though other parts were not subordinating to that she isolated. And then she was going over here and say, well, this woman’s thighs are better. And this one’s eyes are better. This one’s cheeks are better knees, your lips are better. And what she was doing is isolating an infatuation with all those parts and not acknowledging her own beauty. And so this is called body dysmorphia. And this goes both ways you can exaggerate yourself, I’m sure everybody’s met somebody that thinks they’re stunning. And he kind of really, and you say it the other way. But this occurs in every area that we do that too. So if we meet somebody who thinks more intelligent than us, we can be intimidated, and beat ourselves up. Because we don’t think we have that knowledge when they’re faster thinkers or whatever, or faster retaining information or quicker wit. While we might do it in business, look at what they’ve accomplished, and I haven’t, I don’t have a big business. So anytime you go around the wheel of those seven areas, and exaggerate somebody, you’re gonna get a dysmorphic perspective of yourself. Or if you look down of some you’re going to exaggerate anytime you exaggerate or minimize yourself relative to other people, you just dissolved your authenticity, and put on masks and personas and facades, and there’s no way that facades will ever be as empowering as the authentic you. So the comparison is what undermines the power of people. And we go round and we’re taught, we need to be like that person, be like your brother be like this. But everybody has a unique set of values and priorities in their life. And whatever is highest. Like, I’m pretty good when it comes to human behavior. But when it comes to it, I’m like an idiot when it comes to cars. If you said go change that tire, I’d go. Let me call my tire chain.

Heather Pearce Campbell  29:14

Right? You’ve got a clock changer. I’m joking. You didn’t notice people?

Dr. John DeMartini  29:22

Yeah. So I learned to delegate anything that’s not highest on your value that ever requires a outside motivation to get you to do it. So that’s why I only stick to my competencies and let go of the others. But in those two areas, I’m kind of like an idiot. So I’m pretty brilliant in one area, but I’m an idiot, mostly others. And so that’s what the people do. They compare themselves and assume that everything about that individual is superior. Instead of maybe they got beautiful eyes, but maybe they got a foul mouth or maybe they got a gastrointestinal problems and chronic illness. You know, there’s something else that you’re not paying attention too. And I tell people don’t be fooled by facades. Because the people that you infatuate with a day, a week, a month, a year or five years later, you find out that they’re not who you thought, the meantime, you can have the wisdom of the ages without the aging process by looking in advance and looking at both sides and not put people on pedestals or pits put him in your heart to see that they have a unique reflection, and whatever you see in them, you have inside you, I just sent an article off to jet set magazine, which I write for about authenticity. And that was just that article about that. Because for 1000s of years, you can find and trace references by great minds, that whatever we perceive another’s is inside us. So anytime you look up to somebody or down on somebody, instead, look within and identify where you have that and have reflective awareness instead of deflecting it. And because the thing that just embarrassed people is when you’re too proud or too humble to admit what you see, and others inside you and you judge them, and you’re left with emptiness, additional parts instead of wholeness by loving.

Heather Pearce Campbell  31:01

Yeah, I love this concept of facades, because I think people can relate to it, particularly from the standpoint of when somebody puts on a facade, you know, and I think usually the term is used like to over you know, aggrandized oneself. But what I’m hearing you say is that the facade could also be in the reverse direction, right? That you look up to somebody to the point where you are minimizing yourself in a particular area, which is also a facade because it’s not the true representation of you.

Dr. John DeMartini  31:35

Exactly. Albert Einstein said it really nicely. He said, If you’re a cat expecting to swim like a fish, you’re gonna beat yourself up. And if you’re a fish expecting to climb a tree, like a cat, you’re gonna beat yourself up. But if you honor who you are, you’re gonna be great at climbing the tree or swimming. Now, in my case, I’m not good at either, well, swimming I’ve done pretty good at and I used to climb trees, but that’s not fresh. I can sit in front of my computer and I can type today.

Heather Pearce Campbell  32:01

The right you get to do it from wherever you are in the world, right, which not everybody gets to do.

Dr. John DeMartini  32:07

Yeah, all right now I’m sailing between the Seychelle islands and passing Saudi Arabia outside the window and on my way to Oman, so I’m sailing right now. You may see some movement on these cruise stables. There’s not a lot of waves tonight. There’s just a bit or maybe just a few feet. So it’s wild.

Heather Pearce Campbell  32:26

No, I love that. Well, it’s so I think it’s really important for us all to increase our awareness around this. And it’s a process, right? It’s a journey, I’m sure we have opportunities every day to notice when we’re doing these things. The final point about really getting to a place of love, which is I think we’re all healing happens, right, it’s how we can also soothe our nervous systems. Even before going live, I was talking about how COVID has really done a number on people’s nervous systems from the standpoint of the layering on of stress for so many over what already might have had, you know, before COVID, baseline levels of stress that were too high, right. And at least in my own learning journey, like last year, even my own physical journey around health, working with a doctor, he started off as a chiropractor, but you know, he has said, look, there’s two modes for the physical body, there’s stress mode, or healing mode. And he said, you know, the way you get from stress mode to healing mode, I mean, it’s it really, my interpretation of what he’s saying is the simple is forgiveness. Healing mode is love. stress mode is the absence of love or the absence of forgiveness, and our bodies can’t heal when we’re in fight or flight. We can’t heal when our nervous systems are just overcharged. And he said 97% of people are walking around every day in their life with nervous systems that are on fire.

Dr. John DeMartini  34:02

Well, I like to think of when you say, I use the word forgiveness in this context. Thank you for giving me this experience. Because anything that you don’t see on the way is in the way. Yeah, anything you can’t thank you for his baggage, not fuel. Yeah. And once you see that, it’s on the way, there’s nothing to forgive, there’s something to be thankful for. So thank you for giving me this experience.

Heather Pearce Campbell  34:23

I love that. Well, and particularly, I think, you know, having been through The Demartini Method myself, I think there’s other modalities, but you do it in a really unique way, the rebalancing, right and again, I’ll invite people back to that first episode, we will share links to it because I’m sure that The Demartini method also shows up on the front page of your website to go walk through that exercise around anything that you are particularly triggered by right repelled by or pulled towards right either way. It’s a super powerful rebalance. An exercise that for me always results in a more peaceful end point, right a place where I can see the benefit of the challenge the block whatever I was previously carrying around before.

Heather Pearce Campbell  34:25

Exactly what the man is designed to transform apparent chaos in the hidden order, because there’s a hidden order, we just don’t see it yet. And anything we batch wait with or resent, or seek or avoid, or have an impulse or an instinct to or fro will occupy space and time in our mind and run our mind as brain noise until we turn it to love. And then we finally have the silence, the golden silence of wisdom.

Heather Pearce Campbell  35:36

I love that brain noise to wisdom and the golden silence. I know we’ve just got a few minutes left, we’re gonna share links to each of these resources that we mentioned here in the show, you’ve got another book coming up that is either in pre release, or about to be released called The Resilient Mind right here, I can not mention that running a podcast called Guts, Grit and Great Business® right, talk to us a little bit about your thoughts on resilience, and what the resilient mind is about.

Dr. John DeMartini  36:07

Well, let’s have everybody imagine a magnet here. This is a pen. But let’s imagine having a positive pole negative pole. And most people think I want to avoid this and seek this, I would avoid this pain and seek this pleasure, avoid this negative, seek this positive, avoid this challenge, seek to support, avoid this predator, seek this prey kind of thing. That’s an amygdala response and the subcortical area of the brain, that’s what it does, it’s a survival response. And the more positive it is, the more you fear its loss. And the more negative it is, the more you fear its gain. So if you’re completely neutral, you don’t have a fear of loss or gain. But the second you make it a little positive, you got a little fear, a little negative, a little bit of fear, avoiding you’re seeking it, the greater the polarity, the greater the monopole or perspective, the more phobia you generate in your life, and the less resilient you are in your life. So my method, and the book, which has the method, part of it in it is designed to take things that are highly polarized, which is what the amygdala does, to the amygdala has to subjectively bias things with false positives and false negatives, seeing something that’s not there that is or seeing something that’s not that is there, that’s not it has to polarize that in order to get the adrenaline running to capture prey, and to avoid predators, so it has to accelerate it and exaggerated to catch the prey and to get rid of predator. So if we’re in survival mode, we get into highly polarized, very rigid, very black and white, very fundamental, very biased subject to the bias states. And when we do that black and white it’s hard to let go of because it’s an addiction or to avoid which is subjection. So you don’t want to be around this you want to be around this you want to lose this you don’t wanna be around that. So your mind is preoccupied by anything you infatuated, resent, and that’s why I say anything you infatuated, resent distract you. In Buddhism, the Buddha said the desire for that which is unobtainable, a positive pull the magnet by itself and the desire to avoid that which is unavoidable the negative pull that back by itself is the source of human suffering. So the book is the science and I mean science to duplicatable science and how to go from this polarized state, which are being dominated by the survival mode, which is the distressed mode, because that’s what the stress is, according to jump Claude Shannon and his information theory, stress disorders are incomplete information. It’s in Tropic. So if you’re infatuated with something, you’re unconscious of the downsides, if you’re resentful, something you’re unconscious, the upside, whatever you’re unconscious of, you’re ignoring and blind and missing information on and that missing information is creating a disorder because you’re extrinsically driven, instead of intrinsically called, but if I can show you how to find the upsides to what you think is down, and the downsides of what is up and I can balance that and bring you back into neutrality, which is objectivity, not subjectivity. And now reason instead of emotional responses, I can take you to systems to third thinking process and awaken the executive center and the gratitude center and on your way to mastery. So that’s what the book is about. The book is on how to methodically scientifically, screens form misperceptions that are survival oriented, which I call disordered or apparent chaos, and turn it into the hidden order, where you have ordination and subordination or super ordination. Because when you infatuate your subordinate to him, when you resent them, you superordinate to him. When you love them, you ornate and you have an order. And now you’ve got the hidden order in your life. The book is a very powerful book on how to dissolve anxieties and distresses and to give yourself permission to be resilient and do something you really love in life.

Heather Pearce Campbell  39:45

Well, and as you were describing, right this push-pull kind of effect of which I think we all can relate to in one or more areas of our life wanting this versus not wanting that or, you know, however it shows up but I think particularly when it comes to resilience, and these last few years, people who have been living in distress and talk to us about it sounds like to me, it’s the same all all paths lead back to this same exercise and understanding, right? Like if somebody is suffering from depression, which I know, already entrepreneurs suffer at a higher rate than the general population, right? And then you layer on the pandemic, right, some other experiences, life experience, business, stress, etc, is resolving depression the same route.

Dr. John DeMartini  40:37

Yes, I defined depression. You know, the pharmaceutical industry finally got busted a few months ago, you may have seen that, because their biochemical model got busted, they found out it was not accurate, and not exact, and it’s a false causality, they kind of it was all over the news. And they did everything they could to suppress it, but it was there, and you can look it up and find it.

Heather Pearce Campbell  40:58

I stay off the news. And so that’s why I’m like, Ah…

Dr. John DeMartini  41:03

But what I see is that the pharmaceutical industry had promoted the idea, well, you have a deficiency of some sort of chemistry in the brain, and so we were going to help you replenish it. I’ve had the opportunity to work with 1000s, not hundreds 1000s of people that have been clinically depressed. And I see him every week. And I define depression, I don’t define it as an illness. I define it as a normal biological response, as a compensation for addictions to fantasies, unrealistic expectations, and delusions about how life’s supposed to be. So it’s your friend, not your enemy. And people go what, let me give you an example. Because I’ve dissolved fantasies and people and their depression disappears immediately. And they go what my biochemistry is, was invalid. No, your subconscious mind stores all imbalanced perspectives to prevent you from the predator and to make you seek the prey and you get addicted to fantasies and try to get subjected from nightmares. And as long as you it’s just imagine if I was going to start dating somebody and I had an expectation that they’re going to be nice never mean positive, never negative happy, never said give, never take peaceful, never wrathful generous, never stingy consider everything consider it right. And I have an expectation that they’re going to be more one than the other. I have an unrealistic expectation. And the second I try to get them to be that way. I’m going to be angry and aggressive, I’m gonna feel blame them and I want to feel betrayed. I’m going to be criticizing him and feel challenged. I’m going to be depressed and despair. I’m gonna want to exit escape, I want to I feel frustrated and futile. I may be grouchy and grieving I’m gonna, you know, hate them and what hurt them and I’m going to be irritable and irrational. And I’ll be fee jaded and I feel like a jerk I call it the ABCDE F J G H I J is negativity. But what they are letting you know those responses are letting you know that you have a delusionary unrealistic fantasy expectation on something and others or yourself or life, or people are mechanical objects. And no one ever gets to that they never actually uncover what those are and they just look and their biochemistry is imbalanced. But it’s not the cause you don’t just have an imbalance, I can ask you questions and I can make your serotonin levels go up in 10 minutes, and I can make them go down in less than a second. If a tiger comes in a room and jumps in a room, and it’s running towards you with salivation and fangs, your testosterone is gonna go up, your adrenaline’s gonna go up, your osteocalcin is gonna go up your substance P is gonna go up your serotonin, your or endorphins and Calphalon dopamine are all going to crash in hundreds of a millisecond. Well, if you go and quickly do a blood test, oh, you got a valid chemical imbalance. Now you have a perception of a tiger about to eat you. And what we have is stored in our minds in our hippocampus, from our amygdala assigning valency to, to assessing these experiences in our life stored there, a whole bunch of accumulated imbalanced perspectives that are making us non resilient, and having unrealistic. See, anytime we have something we think is painful, we’re going to be fantasizing escaping it with a dissociation to go try to find it’s opposite the fantasy. And anytime we have a fantasy, we’re going to have an anxiety of losing that and having the phobia of the opposite. So if I go in and find out what the depression about and ask him so what are you depressed about? Well, my mom wasn’t there when I was a child. Great when your mom wasn’t there, what did you miss? That’s good, who provided it? And they go, Oh, yeah. And what was the bid for them providing it? Never thought about that? And what about the drawback? Here Ma has been there where there would be no drawback? No, that’s a fantasy. You have a fantasy about how your mom was supposed to be and then you’re not honoring the form that it came. And then all of a sudden they go will Oh, and they find the drawback that the mom had been there because they think that their life would have been better but then they compare themselves to somebody that had what they thought they should have gotten. They find that their life is not better. It was an illusion that I held on to. So these unrealistic expectations underlie these chemistries and these responses and we label it. And I think commercialism and the opium of the masses has overridden sound understanding of physiology and psychology, and is keeping us from actually being accountable and empowered our own life to manage these things. And I like to think of depression is not your enemy, it’s your friend. Because it’s letting you know that you have unrealistic expectations, people who are during COVID, when I saw these people upset and freaked out and everything else. I said, That’s because you’re comparing your current reality to the way it used to be the past, and the fantasy about how you wish it would be in the future. And you’re not stopping right now and looking at what you can do to serve and fill the needs of other people and build your business today with a grounded reality of the new needs. And the moment you do those two are out of the equation, and now you’re present. And now you’re building momentum.

Heather Pearce Campbell  45:54

Right? You’ve stopped the polarization. 

Dr. John DeMartini  45:56

Stop the polarization and the delusion that it’s supposed to be the way it used to be, or it’s supposed to be that you’re living in the past and future instead of present. In the present, you have the power.

Heather Pearce Campbell  46:06

So question for you, for folks that are listening and thinking like, gosh, I need to go start somewhere. Where do I start? Well, I assume because the resilient mind is what comes next right? Would you point them to your most recent book, the seven treasures?

Dr. John DeMartini  46:20

Yeah, the seven treasures is a great way of learning about human values, because every hidden individual has a set of values and priorities in their life, and things that are most least important to life and those values to dictate how you perceive, decide and act your all of your behaviors coming from that. So that book can be very helpful and eye opening, because most people don’t know what their values are, they think they know, I’ve asked so many 1000s of people millions. And when we actually discover what their life is demonstrating versus what they think it is what it should be. I asked 5000 people in South Africa, one time, how many of you would love to be financially independent, everybody put your hand up, people put your feet here, I said, How many of you are all the hands went down, except seven people, I said in an interesting less than 1% achieve it, but 100% of you got your hands up. So that means that some of you are living in the fence, you’re going to be financial independence, but you’re not actually making progress on it. So let’s take a look at why. Because your hierarchy of your values is dictating your financial destiny, if you don’t have a value on buying assets, and deferring gratification, and all you have is the value of living the lifestyles of rich and famous and spending money on a consumable, that depreciates, you’re gonna keep being a slave to money, never have it worked for you. But people don’t get it. They hold on to the fantasy because they envy these people on TV and the celebrities or whatever. And then they encode that in their life. And then they beat themselves up. Why am I not like that? Why am I not like that, and then they’re miserable. And they’re comparing us to the looking of how their life really works. And what’s really important, and not trying to set goals that are incongruent with what they truly value what their life demonstrates they’re committed to. So I help them get clear. So that’s what the values factor can be helpful.

Heather Pearce Campbell  47:54

Yeah. Well, and my question for you on that is for folks, because obviously I know part of that exercise is you look at how your values are currently being expressed in your life, right, which most people don’t think of starting there. What about for folks who are not currently living in alignment with their values? Does that matter? So folks that are feeling frustrated thinking like, my life is not reflecting my true values? Talk to us about how your values exercise helps them.

Dr. John DeMartini  48:25

It’s impossible. I show people don’t get what they think their values are, what they think they are. That’s what the problem is.

Heather Pearce Campbell  48:33

That’s where the discontent comes in.

Dr. John DeMartini  48:35

Yeah, because I just worked with a lady last night until 130, to almost two o’clock in the morning, who thought this was important to her. And I said, well, let’s just go through some checklists and see if there’s any evidence of that. And the evidence was flimsy. And this is the fantasy that people have, because they envy other people, and they go, I want to be like that. And so they just artificially say, well, that’s my values, I’m gonna go there. And then there’s no evidence that they’re actually really living that. And many people say things. But that’s not what I go by. I don’t go by what people say. I go by what they live. And I go by what they want to talk about, not what they say. That’s important, big difference. So I look at what because I started doing value determinations in 1978. And I looked at every available thing that was in the marketplace on it, and most of them or autocratic expectations about how you should be supposed to be need to be the moral way this moral hypocrisy is promoted by politicians and religions, most of it that is not even livable, no human being can live by those things. And that’s why people say, Well, I’m not perfect, nobody’s perfect. You know, well, maybe you are perfect. Maybe having both sides of life is the perfection that you haven’t honored yet. Tried to get rid of half of yourself. It’s not going to help you love your stuff, and try to be only one side it’s not going to happen. But honoring both sides of yourself. See I’m not a nice person. I’m not a mean person. I’m an individual with a set have values and if you communicate and support my values, I can be nice. But if you tell me Oh, I’m sorry, but even though you got a first class ticket and a 10 million miles on our airlines, we somehow missed your flight. And you won’t have a seat today. I don’t go, um, last year, you know, I just say, can I talk to a supervisor, and can I get Richard Branson here right in front of me now at this moment, or something, you know, so I’m not a nice person, I don’t have this fantasy, I’m supposed to be a one sided human being. And I have a set of values. And those values aren’t right or wrong. They’re just my unique values. Because it’s my unique pivotal viewpoint of the world. It’s not better or worse than anybody else’s. And what I did is I realized that I’m going to respond according to those values, and so is everybody else. And they’re not right or wrong, if I’m superior to them looking down at your your values are wrong. So you never make a mistake in your own values, you only make a mistake when you compare your actions to other people’s values. And people only make a mistake when you project onto them your values and think they should be living in your values. And that’s pretty arrogant. So I’m not interested in that. Those people don’t know what their values are, and they’re constantly injecting values or projecting values and having futility. And that happens and that undermines most relationships, both business relationships at home kids, colleagues, customers, same thing,

Heather Pearce Campbell  51:20

Tyson and get you to come try to fix my clocks. Don’t get my clocks.

Dr. John DeMartini  51:26

Don’t do that. We’ll be on the ship. We move through different time zones, right every few days, we got to change different times. So I got an electronic clock that’s like, confusing as hell to me as I look at it, I just go trying to figure it out here I have tried to tamper with the clock or some got all this debt gadgetry on it used to be you just turn to thing and you hit a button. And it was done. It was simple. So I just I call the people from the front desk and I said send the clock guy. And they laugh. The clock guy comes in here and changes the clock fixes it.

Heather Pearce Campbell  51:58

Sounds good. I get it. Well, how many of us have ever gone to a hotel where the you know, they have a clock sitting on and and somebody has preset the alarm and it goes off at some ungodly hour and you can’t get it to stop? Are you crazy? Yes. You like even if you consider yourself like fairly digitally adaptive. It’s like no, I end up just unplugging it from the wall. So I get it, I get the whole clock analogy.

Dr. John DeMartini  52:24

Probably the only person you know that has a clock changer. Delegation.

Heather Pearce Campbell  52:29

Yeah, it’s so good that you identified that as a need and something you were going to delegate and then how grateful Are we that there’s somebody there to do that? Right.

Dr. John DeMartini  52:38

Well, he’s grateful for job security. Right?

Heather Pearce Campbell  52:42

Yeah, exactly. I don’t think you’re gonna wake up one day and want to set your own clocks. Right. Well, Dr. Demartini, it’s such a pleasure to see you again. I’m so excited for all the people that get to hear your message and get impacted by your work through your speaking your writing your joining us on podcast. I really am grateful for you coming back today and talking about some of your additional books and sharing your message.

Dr. John DeMartini  53:06

Thank you. I appreciate the great questions and the fun and the dialogue we have. Thank you.

Heather Pearce Campbell  53:10

Of course. Well, best wishes I loved also that painting it was beautiful. For folks that are listening pop over I’m going to share Dr. Demartini’s website the links to the various resources that we’ve talked about Dr. Demartini. What final thought would you like to leave people with?

Dr. John DeMartini  53:28

Well, today’s Valentine’s Day? I don’t know if that’s the day that it’s going to be showing. But this is Valentine’s Day, I messed up everything, I just…

Heather Pearce Campbell  53:35

No it doesn’t. It doesn’t it’s still going to be super relevant. So proceed.

Dr. John DeMartini  53:40

Even though every day is Valentine’s Day, if you’re living authentically, there’s nothing wrong and getting a reminder at least once a year to go through and do an inventory of the people that have contributed to your life and say thank you. I love you. I don’t know too many people that have anything other than a grateful fearful thank you back. When it’s sincere, open hearted thank you, I love you to somebody.

Heather Pearce Campbell  54:03

That’s beautiful.

Dr. John DeMartini  54:05

That’s a great way to clear the mind. Loud to be focused on what’s really important priority. If you had only 24 hours to live in your life, you would say thank you, I love you to the people that contribute your life. So we don’t know when our last 24 hours is 20 miles, we’ll practice it.

Heather Pearce Campbell  54:21

It’s such a beautiful reframe for Valentine’s Day as well. But you’re right any day. Thank you Dr. Demartini. That was a powerful share. Really appreciate you. Thank you.

GGGB Outro  54:32

Thank you for joining us today on the Guts, Grit and Great Business® podcast. We hope that we’ve added a little fuel to your tank, some coffee to your cup and pep in your step to keep you moving forward in your own great adventures. For key takeaways, links to any resources mentioned in today’s show and more, see the show notes which can be found at Be sure to subscribe to the podcast and if you enjoyed today’s conversation, please give us some stars and a review on Apple podcasts, Spotify or wherever you get your podcast so others will find us too. Keep up the great work you are doing in the world and we’ll see you next week.