With Finka Jerkovic, an author, international speaker, workshop leader and coach. As President of FINKA Communications Inc., she consults with clients on personal branding, leadership, sales, client experience and employee engagement. She brings over two decades of experience in corporate Canada in the financial services industry, with an expertise in sales, leadership, communication, and coaching.

Join us for this fun and enlightening conversation about creating a successful personal brand. You will hear Finka share her own story about making a leap (from corporate) to creating her own personal brand and what she learned in this process. Finka helps her clients identify and embrace their “dreams that feel too big”, especially around making a difference or creating transformation for their clients.

Finka shares on the importance of discovering “Your Brilliant Difference” – those few things that you are exceptional at or are uniquely qualified to do, because that becomes the gold in your business. Why do people choose you to work with? Because you are shining in “Your brilliant difference”.

We also discuss some of the lessons, including personal growth lessons, that experts, consultants and coaches have to learn when creating a successful personal brand, including dealing with fear, learning how to put proper supports (including legal supports) in place for their business, and handling procrastination and other issues (inner work) that can keep us stuck.

Finka shares some strategies for dealing with the “inner punisher” that many of us have, how to cultivate curiosity instead, and how self-compassion and embracing “the middle way” is actually the key to moving forward successfully. We also discuss how Finka works with her clients in living into “the edge” of their comfort zone to help them bridge the gap between where they are and where they want to be.

Be sure to check out Finka’s book Sell From Love: Love Yourself, Love your Client, Love your Offer released November 2020. It hit Amazon’s #1 Best Seller List and was listed as a Hot New Release.

Finka lives in Canada with her husband and daughter on their 85-acre nature oasis, where you’ll find them living a farm-to-table lifestyle, brewing up essential oil blends from their lavender field, riding horses, and beekeeping.

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Biggest takeaways (or quotes) you don’t want to miss:

  • “The three pillars of selling from love: Love yourself, love your client and love your offer.”
  • Why Finka believes it’s all about “claiming your brilliance, who you are, why you’re here to shine and that unique value you bring.”
  • We can get everything we want. We just have to make it safe for our brain to do so. (Be sure to listen to her comfort zone / edge exercise).

Check out these highlights:

  • 6:30 Why Finka says we are, “Priming our brain to catch up to the future self we see ourselves being.”
  • 10:00 “We end up focusing on things in our business that we shouldn’t even be focusing on today.”
  • 25:45 Why it’s actually the internal work that keeps us stuck.
  • 35:07 Finka’s journey leaving the corporate world, a six figure job, to focus on her side hustle.
  • 44:00 Slowly coming out of our comfort zone – making decisions by living into “the edge” that help you bridge the gap to where you want to be.

How to get in touch with Finka:

On social media:

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/finka_jerkovic

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/finka-jerkovic-66763160

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/sellfromlove

Find out more about Finka by visiting her website here

Imperfect Show Notes

We are happy to offer these imperfect show notes to make this podcast more accessible to those who are hearing impaired or those who prefer reading over listening. While we would love to offer more polished show notes, we are currently offering an automated transcription (which likely includes errors, but hopefully will still deliver great value), below.

GGGB Intro 0:00
Here’s what you get on today’s episode of Guts, Grit & Great Business™.

Finka Jerkovic 0:05
If we are making decisions because we think it’s going to be better over here, it’s not because the thing that you’re leaving over there is actually going to come with you. And so it’s really becomes important because I know the problems that I was experiencing in corporate, if I didn’t have peace with those problems, meaning those types of people that I was trying to run away or the regime of corporate and trying to control and all that kind of stuff of it. If I didn’t figure out how to handle that I wouldn’t. It wouldn’t have helped me, I would have found that elsewhere, I would have found it and recreated in some way.

GGGB Intro 0:38
The adventure of entrepreneurship and building a life and business you love, preferably at the same time is not for the faint of heart. That’s why Heather Pearce Campbell is bringing you a dose of guts, grit and great business stories that will inspire and motivate you to create what you want in your business and life. Welcome to the Guts, Grit & Great Business™ podcast, where endurance is required. Now, here’s your host, The Legal Website Warrior®, Heather Pearce Campbell.

Heather Pearce Campbell 1:11
All righty, welcome. I am Heather Pearce Campbell, The Legal Website Warrior®. I’m an attorney and legal coach based here in Seattle, Washington working with entrepreneurs around the world. Welcome to another episode of Guts, Grit & Great Business™ I am so excited to have Finka Jerkovic with us today welcome Finka. Thank you, Heather. I’m excited to be here. Yes. Well, I love Canadians. I’ll just start by saying that we’ve got another Canadian. I just, you know, I was gonna say what’s not to love about a Canadian. There really is nothing on that list. And I just because because I’m in Seattle, you know, I’m almost like, I’m almost there. I’m Kwazii Canadian. I joke that I’ve been accused of being Canadian a few times, and I’ll take it. Oh, totally faking.

Finka Jerkovic 2:02
It’s so funny. I’ll go out and I’ll do presentations or trainings. And I won’t say where I’m from. But literally within the first I’d say three minutes. I will say the word about and then they’re like here canadia. You got me.

Heather Pearce Campbell 2:18
I love it. Well, welcome to Finka for those of you that don’t know. Finka is an author, international speaker, workshop leader and coach as president of FINKA Communications Inc. She consults with clients in areas of personal branding, leadership sales, client experience and employee engagement. She brings over two decades of experience in corporate Canada in the financial services industry with an expertise in sales, leadership, communication and coaching. Finka believes when you bring authentic leadership and a mission based mindset to business, you can achieve inner fulfillment outer success and leave a transformational impact. Her book, Sell From Love: Love Yourself, Love your Client, Love your Offer, released November 2020, hit Amazon’s number one bestseller list and was listed as a hot new release. She lives in Canada with her husband and daughter on their 85 acre nature Oasis where you’ll find them living a farm to table lifestyle, brewing up essential oil blends from their lavender field riding horses and beekeeping finger I love that we You and I were just talking about you living on a farm, which is kind of blowing my mind because we were also having a laugh about the constraints of COVID and everybody wanting more space. But I didn’t know about the essential oils. That’s really fun.

Finka Jerkovic 3:52
I know, I didn’t know. So we had moved up here back in 2015. So we’re in our sixth year. I’m a born and bred city girl. And in 2015, my husband, it was a couple years in the making. But we would talk about you know, let’s just like sell the house leave the corporate job, he had a business in the city and let’s just move out to the country and just get ourselves some land. And it just felt so big and so far fetched because there were so many you know, things that you had to change. You had your job, we had his business, stability of a you know of that. And then all of our family and friends and our network. Everyone was located in the city. And it took a couple of years of talking about it. So I believe what happens is, each and every one of us come up with some really great ideas or we come up with our big dreams. And they might feel so far fetched or too big for us to move forward on. But if we keep talking about it, and if we keep impressing it on our on our brains, our brains catch up to it so it doesn’t start feeling as scary. And I remember the day We were in the midst of, you know, I gotta say, I was in the midst of convincing him we can do this. And I remember the day we were we started, I was looking on real estate listings and finding properties. And there was this particular property that I’m like, this is like, let’s let’s try it. Let’s just put an offer on this one and see what happens. And the night before, he was still not a flat out, no, but it was just so flat out scary. And I remember saying this to him. And it’s been the question, I’ve continued to just even get goosebumps right now thinking about it. The question I always ask myself, now what I’m scared of doing something and it was, would you rather do it and fail? or not do it all and live with the regret of it? And, you know, and so for him, it was like, his, honestly, was the instant responses like, I don’t want to fail. I don’t want to do it. I would rather not live with failure. And that was it. So that was like, Alright, but the next day, think about it a little bit. And I had time to think about that question. And so you know, he had some time to think about it, he came back and he’s like, no, let’s, let’s actually go go for it and see what happens. And so I think what happens for us is we have these ideas, these dreams, these visions for our life, and for our businesses. And it is really scary for our brain, our brain is like that is way too uncertain way too scary. Things may not work out, you might fail miserably. And all we got to do is just keep I call it power, priming our brain, we are priming our brain to catch up to the future self we see ourselves being and doing. And as you do that, eventually and then yeah, so it’s like really big questions that make you think and pause, and then shifts happen. And then that’s what we did. And so then we moved up here in 2015. And since then, like things like we have horses, we carries chickens, we have gardens, we started, you know, we have lavender plants, and we started making our own own lavender here, I’ll show you here. We have a I spray this all day. It’s like a calm serum. So am I like stressed or overwhelmed, or things you know, things like we were talking earlier, Heather and I were talking earlier around getting interrupted in your day, because all of us are working from home. I’m using my calm serum just to like anchor and ground myself.

Heather Pearce Campbell 7:17
Oh, isn’t that the truth, I just went to a women’s retreat and the woman who actually led it made this beautiful blend of organic essential oils in a spray form. And, and so she was having us use it regularly to help like because it was a journey to mindfulness, like a journey to stillness kind of retreat, it was amazing. And such a far cry from my entire other experience in COVID, right. And this was the first time I ventured out. And I got home, it’s interesting, you went out to get Still, this is what is required. Let’s be honest, this is what is required. As a mom to two little people, we do have to venture out sometimes to get still there is no stillness in this home unless everyone’s sleeping. But the funny thing about that spray is I really hadn’t done that kind of like grounding essential oil spray, even though I use quite a few essential oils for other things. And it was so nice when I got home and she gifted us these like I continued it. So now even when I’m feeling a little stressed or discombobulated, I will go find that spray. And it’s a little bit like, I have friends who will like do like a rose mist or whatever on their face. You know, it’s a little bit like that. It’s so refreshing. And you just take a pause. And so I love that I love that you’re making your own essential oils. I think that’s amazing. You bring up this really interesting point about dreams that feel too big. You sound like you’ve had quite a few conversations around this particular thing before. So why don’t you share with us in the context of your work and what you’re doing now, how this comes up for your clients.

Finka Jerkovic 9:06
So for my clients, particularly, they have these big dreams of making a difference through their work. They want to you know, teach or train or facilitate or coach their clients through a, you know, a transformation, whether it’s helping them grow their leadership get to that next level, helping even teams and organizations work better together and find more purpose in that work. Where they currently find themselves is there’s sort of this gap, the vision of who they see themselves being having a profitable, successful, financially viable, sustainable business. And then they’ve either just recently left corporate or they’re still in corporate and have this side hustle. Or they’re just, you know, trying they’re still in like that startup state. But for the last Three years or five years, and they can’t seem to get to that next level. And often what happens, it’s like we’ve got where we are. And we see where we want to end. But it’s the in between that actually, one gets us there. And that’s the hard part. And so what happens is, you know, we go from here to the future really quickly. And, and then all of a sudden, kind of, we really, what we need to do is reel it back and say, okay, where am I today? And what do I just need to do next in the next hour and the next day, and the next three months, next six months, because we’re so future forward. The other thing, how often happens is, I always look at, we find our calling, when opportunity is who inspires you, who do you aspire to be like, and it’s not like you want to be like them, or just like them, but there is something in them that is also in you, that you, you acknowledge or you recognize, and you want more of that. And often what happens and, you know, we end up doing, you know, the comparing, we start taking where I am today, comparing myself as to where they are, and I’m putting quotations they that person we are inspired by our or us or aspire to be like, but in our own version, and it’s just again, feels too far. And that’s where we get stuck. And all of a sudden, we start trying strategies or implementing, you know, things in our business that are things that we should not even be focusing in on today. Like your goal today is get a client get booked, work with a client live, don’t stress about creating a passive income product, on your website that apparently, you know, through a funnel sequence is going to sell like hotcakes. It might, but that feels like a really like I’m like, I’m gonna go to Las Vegas and, you know, play some, you know, some cards or you know, do the slot machine like it’s just it’s so it’s such a lucky, like, it’s one of those pie in the sky moments. But also that can happen. But it’s also because it’s happened because you were 10 years in the making, and you are doing the step by step thing. So it’s hard. And I find also what happens is like, you know, it’s hard to go out and sell yourself. And that’s the biggest part. And so it becomes really easy to hide behind. Let me create this passive product, let me create this course, let me create this, because I don’t actually have to go out and sell meaning, right? I don’t have to ask for it. I don’t have to position myself. And often what happens, we get so stuck, so filled in the building of it, that all of a sudden, we never get out to selling it.

Heather Pearce Campbell 12:42
Mm hmm. I love that you describe that as hiding because I hadn’t thought of it in that way. But I think it’s absolutely true that a lot of people do get busy doing all of these other things, right. And part of it, I think people can easily get bogged down in the world of you know, especially entrepreneurs that sound like you serve a very similar niche as to what I you know, the folks that I work with and serve as well. There’s, you see people doing so many things. And what you haven’t witnessed is the full journey to get there and what it took to have the demand to create that product that is a more automated or, you know, hands off product, because they’d already created the demand or the marketplace for it versus people who are doing the reverse. And I think there’s a lot of truth to that piece about hiding the Yeah, the selling yourself. And I know I spent some time on your website and this piece about like really embracing what makes you unique, right? I think that that step in entrepreneurship, and especially building personal brands, building small businesses around because most of the folks that I serve, I would call them really service oriented people you know, coaches, consultants, online experts, educators, speakers, authors, they just want to be doing the work that they love, you know, most of them are not looking to create like a startup that they spin off and make $100 million on in five or 10 years you know, they they want to be doing really meaningful work. And that process of really putting yourself out there as the face of your business the face of your work. Talk to me about how you get people to first of all see what it is that makes them uniquely them right because I think we can get stuck even in the seeing ourselves accurately. Yeah, absolutely. How you get you know your how you help your clients see that and then take action around that particular piece.

Finka Jerkovic 14:53
So, I’ve got so the in the book sell from love, we talk about the three pillars to selling from love, you’ve got to love yourself, you’ve got to love your client, and you’ve got to love your offer. And so the finding your unique quality is all about loving yourself. And that means loving everything you are and loving what you are not. And often what happens is we will, you know, try to say, yeah, I’m good at that, or I can do this. And I can do that, or we’re multi passionate and multi talented and, and really, what we need to do especially to serve our client at our best is hone in on those few things that you are one exceptional at and uniquely, uniquely wired to do. And I call it your brilliant difference. What I had found was that, especially for us that are geared to be more, you know, heart centric and service oriented, like we’re give that give over giving and over delivering model, we care more about other people than rather give the gift to ourselves like that notion. It’s hard for us to talk about ourselves, it’s hard for us to own our brilliance, it’s hard for us to love ourselves fully. And so this is where the concept of the brilliant difference really, really helps. Because it’s about claiming your brilliance, and who you are and why you’re here to shine and that unique value you bring. And at the same time, it’s not just for you, it is here to make a difference and add value. And so when we can couple the the gifts that we bring as an act of service that when you shine UI, you will help others shine, but also help them find their way, then as a speaker, coach and author, your work actually gets illuminated as a result, because you’re shining. What I see time and time again, why people are going to choose you to work with is because you are shining in your brilliant difference. Right? What makes Heather unique and different. You can be doing very similar work to other lawyers and providing but it’s you and how you show up. And that brilliance that you bring, that’s what we are being attracted to. That’s what we want more of. And so you actually become an inspiration point for other people. And so, you know, I look at it as and it took me a while to even figure out, oh, this thing is not for me, it’s for this is for other people. Because if I can be an inspiration point for someone else to find their brilliance, then Wow, what a What an honor and privilege to be able to do this work.

Heather Pearce Campbell 17:26
That that piece that you just mentioned. And I think especially for really service oriented folks, turning that conversation into one that is about the perspective of how you do something in bigger service to others, I think really helps people get on board in the same way that they have to learn sales. And so many, you know, folks in this world in at least in my experience, right sales can be an icky word. You know, even even putting crunchy things like legal support in place can feel hard to some of these folks that just want to be doing the work. They just want to be serving and they’re not. They don’t really love unless they have come from corporate and they’re really comfortable with that world. They don’t really love square corners and you know, hard edges and things that really feel like traditional business supports.

Finka Jerkovic 18:18
True and I will also add even if you come from corporate so I came from corporate I’ve gotten two decades in financial services. What was different when I shifted from corporate world into being a business owner and selling my personal brand, my expertise, my thought leadership, it’s like you get amnesia, about all the things you you know already. You forget, you come with all this skill and expertise even though I’m selling the expertise. But because you end up so you’re so close to your material that we start identifying with our stuff, meaning, if you like my stuff, it says something about who I am, if you say yes to my stuff, and you buy my stuff, then oh my god, that means there’s something amazing or wonderful about me or at least I’m accepted. Now if you say no, that there might be something wrong with me. And that process of really being able to and so that’s the edginess so as soon as we notice that we are edgy when it comes to putting boundaries around our business edgy for you know, I’ve got to put some clauses around intellectual property or a nondisclosure agreement. I have to get uncomfortable to do that. I have that conversation with a client or contractor. I gotta get paid for the work that I’m doing. Those are gonna sit there and I love you. I like your word crunchy. But those are also opportunities that tell us if we can’t do that and feel in alignment to our brilliant difference, their opportunities of growth and somewhere in there. You know, I’ve got two constructs in what I teach and sell from love. You’re either selling from love or you’re selling from fear and if you’re feeling icky Fear is in the room with you. Yeah, if you’re feeling uncomfortable fears in the room with you now, you can still, for instance will use, have the NDA discussion, the IP and the contractor conversation. And still have fear, but do it with the intention of love. So when we you know, live, sell lead or do anything from that posture love, it doesn’t mean that we’re not scared, we are still scared, there is fear still in there. However, how we show up is acknowledge that I am scared, I am uncomfortable. I don’t know how this is going to work out. However, even if it goes like it hits the fan, I was gonna, you know, it doesn’t go well. I fail miserably. I am still going to love myself. Literally, I’m going to still love myself no matter what. And when we can show up in that way. All of a sudden, we give ourselves permission to end we’ll go back to your second question was around how do you make the leap to do the scary stuff? It is by acknowledging that fears in the room that you feel doubtful, overwhelmed, uncomfortable, we got to acknowledge it’s there. Because if we don’t we give it power. When we say I see you, I know you’re here with me. And and I’m getting goosebumps just thinking about it. Like, I’m like, I know you’re here with me. And it’s okay. We got this. And if this doesn’t work out and we fail, I’ll still be okay. And I’m still gonna love myself. And then we can move forward. But if we don’t do that, if you we end up it festers and becomes this like big thing that again paralyzes us overwhelms us, and we don’t move forward. And then we start having behaviors like, let me scroll through social media, let me watch Netflix, let me go to everything else. But do my work. Yeah, my clients post on social, you know, have that NDA conversation,

Heather Pearce Campbell 21:56
Exactly. Do you I’m curious, do you work with primarily women? Do you work with both women and men?

Finka Jerkovic 22:02
I work it depends on my on the environment. So in my corporate work, it’s both men and women. In my individual works I do I work with coaches and consultants and advisors, mostly women and heart centric, spiritual men. I put it that way.

Heather Pearce Campbell 22:19
So I love that. Is it a different conversation that you’re having with men and women about this fear component? Or is it the same?

Finka Jerkovic 22:28
It’s exactly the same. It’s it’s the same, it’s the same conversation. However, just, it’s interesting as women, I don’t know if it’s because, you know, we’re, whether we feel more, we get overwhelmed by our feelings more, I find with the men that I work with, they’re quicker to action. So they’ll do things faster than we will as women, we will ruminate, contemplate, allow it to stir a little bit more land and all that kind of stuff. And, and there’s such value in that because we are, you know, there’s this we’re judicious and there’s a fiduciary part of this, like we’re responsible, and we’re want to make sure. And it’s also looking at where are we again, hiding and holding ourselves back? Because we’ve we’re afraid if we don’t get it right, or if we make a mistake, or if we don’t make get approval, even though consciously we’re not seeking it somewhere in our subconscious, you know, we’ve been programmed with it.

Heather Pearce Campbell 23:29
When it’s so rare to have it too. It just is different. It’s different. Yeah, well, and I would think that they do have it because especially that piece that you mentioned about, you know, when you’re putting your work out there and having your work be denied, it feels like a rejection of self right, I would think that that is felt at times by both men and women. But the the what I wonder about is like the fear of just doing something new for the first time, right things like handling some of the crunchy stuff in business, or putting some of this structure or support or whatever else in place. And, you know, to your point about why I think men and women handle that a little differently. I mean, even as a parent, right, I’ve got an eight year old son and a three year old daughter, I try to pay pretty close attention to the language that we use, because I do find boys are much more encouraged all around, whether it’s you know, by peers in the school setting, or whatever, I think to be a little more adventurous and experimental. And in society, generally, I would say, you know, that is for sure happening, whereas girls are told to from a young age, and I was talking with my sister was for girls, to be careful and watch out and don’t fall. And so I think, you know, it’s there’s, I think there’s a biological component because of the way that we’re wired. And I think there’s a huge influence that we just have in society through our parenting and our nurturing, right, that result in men just feeling a little bit more experimental and less attached to a result, because I think a lot of men have actually had more practice at failing than women have, by the time, you know, we’re all adults. Agreed? Yeah. So it is, I think it is a, you know, it’s such an important conversation for entrepreneurs to be in and to be having this whole thing around, you know, facing our fears. And what’s keeping us stuck is often not the mechanics or the strategies or, you know, whatever we think it is, it’s this internal work that we have to be doing.

Finka Jerkovic 25:45
And it feels often I know what the internal work, I’ll be stuck. And I’ll be like, I need to get this thing done. But I can’t seem to get this, whatever it let’s I’m going to implement a strategy or launch something. And I just can’t get to doing it. And it’s, I need to sit down and journal for three days, talk to a friend and I, and I know I have to do that stuff. But there’s this part of me also is like avoiding that. Because I think Part One is if I do that work, that means I actually have to go do the thing that I said I was going to do, right? I gotta get through it. And it’s inner work is hard work. It’s not easy work. Because if it was easy, all of us would be doing it and we’d be all super Uber evolved conscious human beings. Yeah. Right. And so it isn’t easy work. And so I will pay attention to myself. And notice, Oh, you are avoiding here. You’re choosing not to sit quietly to meditate. Or when I’m meditating, I’m sitting and I’m noticing the urge and impulse to get up off the cushion and move and go do something. Right. And so I think there’s this place of how do we, you know, we got it, we got to do the inner work. It’s hard work. And if you can, if you realize that you’re not doing your work, again, we can’t punish ourselves to be harder on ourselves, say like, I know, I’m not doing I should be doing it. We shouldn’t do that either. Just like, ah, just be curious. Like, I’m noticing that’s so interesting. I wonder why I’m not wanting to sit in journal or meditate or workout or go for that walk. I wonder what that’s all about, you know, just literally have fun with it. And then, you know, that lightness versus the Punisher because the Punisher is again, more fear, and that’s not going to help us.

Heather Pearce Campbell 27:33
Okay, let’s pause just for a moment to hear from today’s sponsor. Today’s sponsor is the company Money Grit. If you have ever chosen a tool to help support you with your money tracking your money habits and found that it actually adds stress does not provide clarity, or does not help you change behaviors related to money, then you need to check out Money Grit, you can go to moneygrit.com, it is a tool that will help you both in your personal finances and personal budgeting, and also has a business side as well. So as an entrepreneur, if you are wanting to find a tool that is able to support you in both worlds, where you can stop budgeting and start seeing the possibilities with a tool that will help you stay on track, and will actually help you change your financial behaviors. This is the tool for you. Finally, a money management program that shows you the whole picture. Money Grit helps you gain control of your money with exclusive features designed to ensure you have a spending plan that works for you, you’ll never get caught off guard or go without. So you can stress less and live better. Check out money grit.com. Okay, back to today’s amazing guest. And so many of us have punishers like especially, you know, entrepreneurs have to be really self motivated people. And so my experience of a lot, not all but a lot of entrepreneurs, especially the ones that are not accidental entrepreneur authors is that, you know, they are fairly driven, you’ve got a lot of Type A personalities that you know, like the ones that you support that have left corporate world, right, they’ve achieved something, they’ve got a body of knowledge, they now are probably really wanting to do, what’s in their heart and what they’re really called to do. Right. And so I think there’s most people but particularly in this, this arena, I think there’s a lot of punishers and we we do that to ourselves all the time. I should be farther ahead. I should have done this yesterday, I should have had this outcome instead of that outcome.

Finka Jerkovic 29:58
And all it does is when it makes us feel crappy. And secondly, it just slows us down. Yeah, like it’s like it. So the Punisher one, it doesn’t help us. And second is it slows us down. Part D, right? Because what happens is, there’s this, I don’t know about you, but I know I grew up with this whole notion of if it wasn’t hard work, like to get achieve anything. It has to be hard. They’re like, school of hard knocks that you’re working, working, working hard. And what I’ve realized is it doesn’t always have to be so hard when you’re working in you’re brilliant difference. work isn’t hard. It’s actually easy. It’s fulfilling. Now there might be some effort, like, you know, when we go to the gym, and we work out there’s effort, but we feel energized after that effort. So it’s a different, there’s effort, but it’s not hard. Yeah. And so where was I going with this? Oh, so So all of that happens. So let’s rewind here. No. So the whole point of what I what I’m trying to say is it slows us down. Because when we are hard on ourselves, yeah, all of a sudden, the pickup factor is not there. So if you are punishing yourself, you end up actually slowing yourself down by actually putting yourself back a few paces. Meanwhile, if you say, hey, that’s okay, you got this? You can figure this out. Yeah, you didn’t do it yesterday. But let’s try today, you actually might try today. But if you spend time punishing, we’re not gonna actually do it today, either. We’re going to just be so weary of punishing ourselves. The reason now I’m going to go back to that whole point of the school of hard hard work. We’ve been so trained with hard work that the Punisher has a like they have a resident dorm in our within us, in our in our internal world. And it believes and it fears if we don’t work hard and punish ourselves, we won’t get the thing that we want. Um,

Heather Pearce Campbell 32:08
Yes, how backwards is that? It is real. And yes, that, you know, the really digging into this idea that if you punish yourself, it actually takes longer to get where you want to go, I think is really important. And I think for anybody that you know, has ever bought into like diet culture, or one of these cultures that like either you’re all in or all out fitness would be another one, right? Like you’re either on the wagon or off the wagon with fitness or nutrition or health. that mindset is not very helpful when you look at what you can do instead, on a day where it’s like, okay, you haven’t done all the things or you know, you made a choice you didn’t love or whatever, and just picking up there versus what contend to happen if you’re really punishing yourself and you know, labeling it like oh my gosh, I really screwed up I’m, you know, not on the plan. Rather than seeing it more as this concept of flow. Agreed.

Finka Jerkovic 33:08
I’m unlearning all or nothing, continue to learn all or nothing. And nothing I got that. I got that wiring in me, it’s all or nothing, either in or then it’s like, Alright, then what’s the point? So, you know, it’s been years of trying to unlearn and I love. I think it’s the Buddhist way, it’s kind of like the middle way where it’s not so much all of one thing, either on either spectrum, it’s sort of this middle way, and we get to kind of go a little bit to the left or a little bit to the right. And we have that flexibility, but we’re not swinging so far from one side to the other. And that place of the middle way, and the middle way, for me before used to seem really boring, because it’s like, it just feels like, well, if I don’t get really excited about stuff, that means also i’m not going to get the lows of stuff or the highs stuff. But actually, it’s such a settling place to be because there’s this sense of I’m enough, I don’t have to prove I don’t have to, oh, there’s just such a peak. Like I’d rather have peace than the all or nothing like I want rather have peace of mind and be okay with not having those dramatic swings and living in this sort of and that’s my continual practices, how do I not, you know, work too much, or work out too much or you know, any of the too much notice and be to type a How do I, you know, balance it be, you know, even from a masculine feminine mind, I was in corporate so there was this I am a female and feminine. But then like, I know what it’s like to live and work in a very masculine dominated environment. And so how do I also bring my femininity and be able to be in the middle way of that, that it’s not just masculine and not just feminine, but there’s this way of being able to bring both of those worlds with us.

Heather Pearce Campbell 35:03
I love that. Share with us a little bit about your journey leaving the corporate world, what did that transition look like? What prompted you to do that? How did you know you were ready, it sounds like you serve people who are doing that or have done that, right, so many people walking that same path. Talk to us a little bit about that part of your journey.

Finka Jerkovic 35:24
So for for part of the journey was I started my practice back in 2013. And so I had a couple of years of having this side hustle. And I would literally take my vacation time at work evenings, weekends, if I had to go to a conference or a keynote, I’d literally like, you know, take my four weeks of vacation, I’d take vacation days to get on a plane to you know, go to Nashville, do my presentation for two days, and then come back. And so I did that for a couple years. And for when we had made the decision, especially when we made the decision to move out in the country. It was it was the sense of, I wanted to I’m going to be completely honest, I wanted to quit the six my job, I wanted to quit the six figure job, I wanted to stop commuting, I had this idea in my head of what my work would be like, and I really wanted to follow that dream. And then my husband, who I love dearly, you know, you can’t quit your job, like we got a mortgage or we got bills, we got a daycare and he kept but I want to quit my job, I want to follow my dream. And so there’s this. And it’s interesting how even in relationship, I’m the type of person that’s just sort of the let’s just go after it, let’s just go do it. Let’s just like you know, rip the band aid off. And let’s go for it. And he’s a little bit more cautionary. And like, let’s make sure we line things up, let’s make sure that we dot our i’s and cross our T’s, let’s make sure we have a little bit of a nest egg. And it was really a value. Because you know, when I finally made the decision, I’ll tell you what happened in that moment. But I now look at I reflected our relationship. And it’s like, I’m the type of person that gets us to the cliff and says, Let’s jump and he’s the type of person that says hang on Honey, I’m just gonna go down and check. There’s no sharp rocks and edges, make sure and I have to hang out and wait, I might go check out with him with him. And then we come back to the top and then we make her leap. And that’s the kind of thing that I think is important when we’re making these big decisions. Because when we’re starting a business or when we’re following our passion, or pursue, you know, a passion project, whatever that idea is that we want to do, our brain is wired to keep us safe. And so it becomes even more important to create the safest container for your brain to not put you at risk. So you spoil your passion project. And so if I had, when I initially like back in 2013 decided let’s quit the job, I may not be doing this today, because I would have been so in fear because my financial, my job was so depend on the financial aspect that I had to earn to pay the mortgage, where then a couple years later, we set ourselves up financially. You know, all those things that when we didn’t when I did make this decision, and I’ll say we because it was one of those moments, I think this is when those things happen. I don’t know about you, but I have my biggest ideas. Like when I’m washing the dishes, vacuuming or taking a shower, like those are the three, you know, like I’m doing one of those things breakthroughs happen. Anyways, I was washing the dishes, and I finished washing the dishes and I looked at my husband he was outside he comes in and I’m like, I think it’s time. I think I need to I think it’s I think it’s time to leave. And I knew it was okay when he just said all right. There was no resistance, there was no What do you think maybe we should this there was none of that. And I think when we can come to that place of I’m gonna set that middle way again, that piece of a decision. Even everyone around us is ready for it because we’re in alignment in that decision. And again, I think the place that I was at was I wasn’t running away from my corporate job hoping to find fulfillment in my business and this dream job that I was going to make for myself, because I think that’s another important thing to notice that if we are making decisions, because we think it’s going to be better over here. It’s not because the thing that you’re leaving over there is actually going to come with you. And so it’s really becomes important because I know the problems that I was experiencing in corporate if I didn’t have peace with those problems, meaning those types of people that I was trying to run away or the regime of corporate and trying to control and all that kind of stuff of it. If I didn’t figure out how to handle that I wouldn’t it wouldn’t have helped me know to found that elsewhere. I would have found it and recreated in some way.

Heather Pearce Campbell 39:49
Yeah, that’s such a great that’s such a great point. Well in this idea that actually taking time because I think I think our culture does a lot of disservice even around this concept. of leaping. Because there’s all these heroic stories about, you know, crazy leaps, like figuratively and literally, right. And as an entrepreneur, I think, you know, we often have to take leaps of some size, but they don’t have to feel like leaps, if we’ve done some of that work to prepare, and I think that that, like you mentioned is a better place to be. Because when you do take the leap, you are going to, I would think have a transition period, that’s not as rough. Right? You’re not doing something out of desperation, it’s out of significantly more thoughtfulness?

Finka Jerkovic 40:41
Absolutely. Again, you know, we can get everything we want, we can fulfill our dreams, the only thing we do, we got to make it safe for our brain to do so. Because the way our brain is wired is going to do everything it can to bring us back to the comfort zone. And so can I give, can I give you a quick exercise on how I make decisions now? Totally. Okay, I really do have a paper and pen. Absolutely. Okay, let’s do this. Okay. So why don’t you do and for those of you listening the same thing, either, you know, you can do it after you in a draw circle on a piece of paper. And in that circle, I want you to think of, let’s say, I want you to think of something in your business that’s in your comfort zone that you are like, this is so easy, you can do it in your sleep.

Heather Pearce Campbell 41:24
Drafting contracts.

Finka Jerkovic 41:26
Perfect. Okay, good. So poor drafting contracts. Okay. Now, I want you to draw a bigger circle around that little circle, like, much bigger. And this is beyond your comfort zone. Alright, so I want you to think of something you really, really want to do. That feels like, like extremely uncomfortable. But it is like at the back of your head, you’re mulling it over and you really, really want to do it. What would be in that beyond comfort zone?

Heather Pearce Campbell 41:54
Well, right now, it would be because I’m really on the path to growing certain portions of my business so that I’m not doing all the work, right? is hiring employees. I’m on the bubble of really wanting to do that. But also, in some ways not feeling ready for it. In part, thank you. COVID. Right, my time is so constrained with too little people like the idea of managing one more human makes me a little bit crazy right now.

Finka Jerkovic 42:25
I hear you. Okay, good. So that one’s beyond. So you’d say that was beyond your comfort zone, hiring employees. Okay, perfect. Now, I want you to draw a middle circle. So so far, this is what it’s looking like so you can see it. So now you draw a middle circle around that comfort zone circle, this is the edge. I want you just think of something between drafting contracts, and then hiring employees, you know, you want to get to the hiring employees stage, what would be something that’s on the edge of your comfort zone that you can do right now? feels a little bit uncomfortable, but it’s on that edge?

Heather Pearce Campbell 42:56
Yeah, really, it is what I’m trying to do, which is hire independent contractors to do project based work as it comes in.

Finka Jerkovic 43:02
Alright, so it might be so instead of let’s say hiring full time employees, where you’ve full time, it would be hiring the independent contractor for a particular project. Yeah, that’s right. Yep. And so that’s kind of the the leap that that’s that. So this is how I continue to make decisions. It’s like there’s this comfort zone. And then there’s beyond a sort of that bigger dream, the bigger vision that you have. And so let’s say it’s having a team of, you know, three or five employees around. Well, what’s the thing that you can do in between where you are now and where you want to go? It’s hire independent contractors for big projects. And this I do for naming your billing a difference. You do this for marketing, you do this for yearly planning, and eat every quarter, I’m sitting down, and literally like, Here, look, I’m just doing it right now, my comfort to courage right here. I’m writing out for these three, even ideal clients, because you can even just ideal clients, there’s ideal clients you’re really comfortable working with. And then there are these dream clients somewhere beyond your comfort zone, they want to really want to work with those clients. But then who’s the bridge, who’s in that edge that you can be start thinking about, I can actually work with those that make me a little bit uncomfortable. My heart flutters a little bit I get excited, makes me a little nervous. But I can actually make that happen. And that’s the secret. That’s the secret because what happens is when you say yes to those clients that flutter your heart a little bit, make you a bit nervous, guess what happens eventually they become your comfort zone. And that client that you had and beyond moves into the edge and they become a little bit easier to get to.

Heather Pearce Campbell 44:31
Oh, I love that that bridge. I mean, I love the comfort to courage that process and and seeing the visual for folks that didn’t see it, right. It’s a series of circles and makes a lot of sense because you’re right that living into the edge is a lot easier for most of us than living into what feels like a huge leap. Right. So that’s, I think that’s a really powerful way to always be thinking about what comes next and pushing to that edge. Also, I mean, I think for me, and I think for a lot of entrepreneurs can feel fun, because we know that that’s where we should be. It’s not like it’s a mystery. And and yet, it can be hard to get there. And talk to me about how and maybe it’s something that you have been through yourself. Maybe it’s like some lows that your clients have experienced so much of, you know, what I like to do in conversations on this podcast is help people with the decision making and have conversations around what it takes to get through times where we are making hard decisions a little bit like what you just talked about, but specifically in times where, you know, we really have to dig deep and find grit and have a lot of courage to make certain choices. Is it the same process that you’re walking people through always? Or does it depend on the circumstance and the scenario?

Finka Jerkovic 45:59
So what happens is, so we walk through the scenario activity, and you decide, yep, I’m going to hire contractors, or in my situation, I even use, you know, 2019, I decided I’m going to write a book. And so that was like a big goal. And it was something that I was, you know, I say priming my brain for like four years before that. Getting ready,

Heather Pearce Campbell 46:20
I got nobody ever written a book is like, yep, ding, ding, ding.

Finka Jerkovic 46:25
Right. And so what happens though, is when we make the commitment to the thing that you most want, what you will notice is everything is going to come in the way of you actually moving there and getting it. Yeah. And so I think the grit and the perseverance of your commitment is so important in those cases. So there were many opportunities I had to stop writing. And that they weren’t even excuses internally, like, literally life situations and events were happening around me that I could have opted out. And I think and every time I’ve made something, so I think it’s perfect with creativity. So whenever I would launch a course or I do a new program, or a new workshop, or I had a new keynote to create, it was like the everything was conspiring around to make me not do this way.

Heather Pearce Campbell 47:26
Why is that? Why do you think this pattern exists? Right? When we’re talking? I know this takes us into a whole different conversation. I would like

Finka Jerkovic 47:35
Part of it is I think I might take right now is Yeah, life just wants to know, are you serious? And are you committed? Yes. Yeah. And it’s the growing pains. It’s the constriction of creativity and challenge and the, you know, having the guts, the grit to feel and experience the greatness that comes out of it, you know, perfect like with what your podcast is about? Because I think, and it’s not that it’s we’re being tested, because I’ve failed the test many times like I’ve not persevered. But what has happened is I keep coming back. And that’s what great is, I might not have followed through like, I’ve written this book, before I wrote it in 2019. I wrote it two times before that, you know, but this particular year, and you just and I think because we keep showing up, and we keep at it, and we keep at it, we start noticing these patterns. Every time I make a commitment, something happens. That I it’s it’s going to challenge me and the challenge is because we are saying to ourselves, I am I am capable, competent, and believing I am enough to deserve more. that next level is what we’re saying yes to? It’s not actually the book. Yeah. That’s the, like the car that we get into get there. Yes. But it’s not the book. It’s about who I know I am to be in the book. Is that the route that’s helping me get there?

Heather Pearce Campbell 49:03
That’s right. Well, even on this, this recent journey to stillness that I had to leave my house to go to write. It was really interesting, because we talked a lot about the concept of committing, but making a commitment and deciding is still different than taking action in alignment with that commitment. Right. So, so much of what I see when it comes, you know, even stumbling blocks and obstacles in my own life, but clients lives as well is a test of that commitment. Are you continuing to make decisions that are in line with that commitment? Or is it just something that you know, falls off your plate because you’re done with it? So, yeah, it’s I think it’s true and the pattern exists and you see it, you know, all around.

Finka Jerkovic 49:50
It is and I think, you know, what happens is we are so enamored, I know this is my experience, so enamored with coming up with ideas into reaming it’s safe to dream and it feels fun, because it’s a what if or when this and what if, and the thing with that is, it doesn’t go any further. It’s when we have to actually do something. And that’s where the Gritten the challenges happen. And it’s when we persevere through that part, that’s when we get to experience the dream is a reality, but it is. Yeah, it’s, well, I think we just can, we need to just continue to keep showing up for it and you get to see evidence of it afterwards.

Heather Pearce Campbell 50:33
Real and and we get to hire people like you to help us show up in the right ways. Not do things out of order and go backwards instead of forwards.

Finka Jerkovic 50:43
So anything exactly and and then when it is hard, it’s completely normal. That is like we can’t look at this as an illusion that getting from point A to point B is you know, all beautiful, you know, sunshine and rainbows. No, there is going to be some rain, there’s going to be some thunderstorms and we need to be willing to dance in that rain even though it might not feel you know, we might come out soggy. We might feel soggy after it.

Heather Pearce Campbell 51:13
Yeah, I feel like you know, parenting and little like soggy is our current state of being over here always pretty much well finger I have loved this conversation. I mean, there’s there’s just so much juicy stuff that I can tell you, I could talk for days about that you love and you light up when you talk about it. So it’s really fun to get to see you in video as well. But you know, if you are listening, be sure to pop over to the show notes where you’re going to find all of fincas links or I’m going to put a link to her book. I love that title. Sell from Love, Love yourself. Love your client. Love your offer. Be sure to check that out and anything else you want to share there as well. Think of where do you like to show up online? Where do you like for people to connect with you?

Finka Jerkovic 52:00
You can find me on LinkedIn, or on Instagram, so Finca Jerkovic and also on the sellfromlove.com website if you’re interested, there’s a sell from love test that helps you understand whether you’re selling from love or you’re selling from fear and gives you some tips on where you are sort of in that spectrum on how to get closer to love so you can get clients with ease and expand your reach and make an impact.

Heather Pearce Campbell 52:27
I love that if you are still listening, be sure to check out fincas resources especially if you are in the space of you know consulting coaching online experts you know people who have left corporate you are going to be exactly who Finka works with and helps educate finger any final thoughts for us today?

Finka Jerkovic 52:47
You know, I think if I can, you know leave with with two thoughts I want to say one is be who you are as much as possible work towards figuring out what your brilliant differences and use that as your your vehicle to one alignment, inner fulfillment and outer success because when you look at the people that have quotations make it they are just being who they are. And and that is the beautiful mirror they’re giving back to everybody else saying just be you and that is your your success ticket. And and then I would say you know you have big dreams and they are going to be beyond your comfort zone and what can you do to make it safe for your brain to make that leap? And so start focusing on that edge. What is the thing that’s on the edge of your comfort zone that is that micro baby step that won’t paralyze you are overwhelmed you and fear and doubt that you can choose to say hey, I’m going to move forward with this one thing and just keep moving.

Heather Pearce Campbell 53:43
I love that. Yes, well, you’ve given us some really powerful exercises and things to think about today. Thank you again for being here. I appreciate you. I really love the content that you teach on and I hope we get the chance to connect again. Likewise, thank you, Heather for having me. Absolutely.

GGGB Outro 54:06
Thank you for joining us today on the Guts, Grit & Great Business™ podcast. We hope that we’ve added a little fuel to your tank, some coffee to your cup and pep in your step to keep you moving forward in your own great adventures. For key takeaways, links to any resources mentioned in today’s show and more, see the show notes which can be found at legalwebsitewarrior.com/podcast. Be sure to subscribe to the podcast and if you enjoyed today’s conversation, please give us some stars and a review on Apple podcast, Spotify or wherever you get your podcast so others will find us, too. Keep up the great work you are doing in the world and we’ll see you next week.