With Julie Wolk, founder of Business Guided by Nature. Julie helps hard-working women coaches, consultants, and healers transform a business that drains them to a business that sustains them. Join us for this fabulous conversation where we discuss how tuning into nature, and respecting natural rhythms in life can support us in creating more sustainable businesses, lives, and a better world.

Julie helps her clients create alignment within their businesses, including better business boundaries, so that they can stop leaking time, energy and money! A lifelong nature freak, Julie has 20 years of experience turning vision into reality, plus a chronic illness, a toddler, and a 6-figure business despite a pandemic – so she’s a total expert in streamlining, strategizing and finding the simples pathway forward. Be sure to visit the show notes at www.legalwebsitewarrior.com/podcast to learn more about Julie and her business!

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Biggest takeaways (or quotes) you don’t want to miss:

  • When we layer everything on in our business we stop listening to ourselves.
  • Nature is the mechanism where you create the time to slow down and listen.
  • “People are head down, not thinking about all the small leaks in their business that is draining their energy, time and money until it’s too late.”

Check out these highlights:

8:22 How Julie got started coaching entrepreneurs.

16:30 Why urgency is so engrained in our culture.

20:50 Why layering and doing all the things ends up hurting our businesses more.

23:00 Why nature is the key to pausing, slowing down and listening.

30:04 How are we working too hard for our money?

35:00 What are the common energy leaks of a business?

How to get in touch with Julie:

On social media:




Head on over to Julie’s website to take a quiz to find out the biggest time, money and energy leaks in your business.

Are you ready to slow down? Do you need time to strategize for more time, energy, and money in your business and life? Julie is hosting her 6th annual Winter Replenish Retreat For Busy Women Entrepreneurs January 14-17th. 

For a limited time get $100 off using code HEATHERP. 

Grab your seat here.

Julie helps hard-working women coaches, consultants and healers transform a business that drains them to a business that sustains them.

In fact, she’s a firm believer that if we step off the obsessive productivity hamster wheel and tune into nature’s rhythms, we can grow more sustainable lives, businesses and even a better world.

She helps her clients slow down, get super aligned, and create better boundaries and solid systems so they can find more time, energy and money in their businesses.

A lifelong nature freak, she has 20 years of experience turning vision into reality, plus a chronic illness, a toddler, and a 6-figure biz despite a pandemic – so she’s a total expert in streamlining, strategizing and finding the simplest pathway forward.

Julie facilitates the Nourished Entrepreneur Mastermind and quarterly Replenish Retreats, providing coaching online and in nature to women across the country.

Learn more about Julie here.

Imperfect Show Notes

We are happy to offer these imperfect show notes to make this podcast more accessible to those who are hearing impaired or those who prefer reading over listening. While we would love to offer more polished show notes, we are currently offering an automated transcription (which likely includes errors, but hopefully will still deliver great value), below. 

GGGB Intro 0:00
Here’s what to expect today.

Julie Wolk 0:02
But in the entrepreneurial world there There is, of course, this huge element like the Bro-ey. Like do it more, you know, post every day like, you know, hard-driving hustler wins the fight. I mean, there is that presence and it’s a pretty loud presence but I feel that we because especially as small business owners like without, you know, we did we have the decision to do it differently.

GGGB Intro 0:25
The adventure of entrepreneurship and building a life and business you love, preferably at the same time is not for the faint of heart. That’s why Heather Pearce Campbell is bringing you a dose of guts, grit and great business stories that will inspire and motivate you to create what you want in your business and life. Welcome to the Guts, Grit and Great Business podcast where endurance is required. Now, here’s your host, The Legal Website Warrior®, Heather Pearce Campbell.

Heather Pearce Campbell 1:01
Okay, welcome. I am Heather Pearce Campbell, The Legal Website Warrior®. I’m an attorney and legal coach based here in Seattle, Washington and serving entrepreneurs, online entrepreneurs around the world. Welcome to another episode of guts grit and great business. So I’m super excited about our conversation today. I have with me a friend, How did we meet initially?

Julie Wolk 1:29
I believe through Awareprenuers.

Heather Pearce Campbell 1:31
Paul, Yes. So Paul, who is one of my favorite people introduce me to Julie Wolk. So Julie, welcome. I’m so happy to have you. Happy to be here. Oh, it’s gonna be so fun that this conversation is so timely. And for folks that don’t know Julie so Julie helps hard-working women coaches, consultants and healers transform a business that drains them to a business that sustains them. In fact, she’s a firm believer that if we step off the obsessive productivity hamster wheel and tune into nature’s rhythms, we can grow more sustainable lives, businesses, and even a better world. She helps her clients slow down, get super aligned, and create better boundaries and solid systems so they can find more time, energy, and money in their business. A lifelong nature freak she has 20 years of experience turning vision into reality, plus a chronic illness, a toddler, and a six-figure business despite a pandemic. So she’s a total expert in streamlining strategizing and finding the simplest pathway forward. Julie facilitates the nourished entrepreneur mastermind and quarterly replenish retreats, providing coaching online and in nature to women across the country. Julie lives in California. She was also the co-founder and co-director of wilderness Torah, and was a grassroots organizing manager for rain forest Action Network. Julie, you’ve got some awesome things in your past and a lot of experiences. I’m so excited to dig in with you today. Thanks. Yeah. So talk to me, I love First of all, that your work has a connection to nature. And I’ll start off by saying that one of the things that I’ve done this last week, just as a way to try to slow down the madness that has been life during COVID with two little people at home, I take my morning, coffee or tea or whatever outside and I just put my feet on the ground for like, as long as I can handle it like his bare feet is cold. It’s winter here in Seattle. And yet I have found it to be so rejuvenating, I don’t want to come back inside. Like even if it’s rainy, I find a spot under the tree that kind of blocks me from the rain. And I look up at the sky to try to get at least you know and some tiny amount of vitamin D. But even that small thing has been such a joyful part of my day. So I love your topic. I love that you’re bringing nature into your work and into the lives of so many other people. So talk to me how like you take us back whatever you want our audience to know about your background and how you live in this combination of business and nature.

Julie Wolk 4:26
Thank you. And thank you for sharing that with us too. I mean, it’s like the simplest little things right? It doesn’t take..

Heather Pearce Campbell 4:34
One second. I know here’s the kid have already looked at this. I’m just gonna hit pause. Okay, we’re back. So I had asked you obviously about this beautiful combination of business and nature. How did you get started combining those things?

Julie Wolk 4:49
Well, I actually wanted to just to comment on your sharing just now because I just wanted to, you know, honor how powerful it is to even just have those few moments. And that little just that, that feet on the earth, like what a beautiful way to start your day. So grounding, to soak up energy from the earth. And it’s like, it doesn’t take much to do that. And it’s a really, really grounding practice. So I feel like you’ve already given us like, just like a little piece of, you know how how to integrate more nature into one’s life and learn how that can really support us. You know, you mentioned I usually do live in California right now I’m in Bend, Oregon.

Heather Pearce Campbell 5:27
And I know that I’m about that.

Julie Wolk 5:30
I know, it’s not like we didn’t actually move here. We came here to visit my mother a lot after the fire started. And we just haven’t left. We haven’t left, we like it here. But it’s cold. And I’ve been in this practice of how can I you know, being a California Originally, I was a Michigan person. So at one point, I could maybe handle the cold but after 15 years in California, not so much. So I’ve been in this practice of, well, how can I embrace the cold? And what is it about the hole that I can fall in love with? And I spent a couple hours outside yesterday hiking in, you know, 35-degree weather, and I was able to find beauty in that present. And I was really pleasantly surprised. I mean, the cold weather people are probably like, of course.

Heather Pearce Campbell 6:14
Well, it was so funny. This concept of cold because being in Seattle, and I have a good friend who’s down in Austin, Texas, and she laughs she messaged through Marco Polo the other day, she said, Heather, it’s like 50 degrees. And people around here are putting on Winter hats and gloves and like they’re dying. They’re so cold. And I took my kids on a walk. And I was talking to my sister and my sister’s like, what are you doing? And I said, Oh my gosh, it feels like summer, we’re literally in T shirts. The sun is out. I had taken everything off so that my arms around, I just felt amazing. And she goes, Well, you know, how warm is it? And I looked on my phone. I literally thought it was gonna be the Upper 60s or maybe even 70. Yeah, so I looked at my phone 52 degrees. And it literally felt so vomit. Like it’s all relative. But there really is like, there’s something to be said for being able to find joy in that cold air because it is invigorating. Like even my bare feet on that cold ground. I have to say that after a few minutes. It doesn’t feel cold anymore. And I just want to stay out there and I don’t come inside feeling cold. That’s the weird thing is it doesn’t kill me. So there’s something really, really nice about it.

Julie Wolk 7:28
Yeah, yeah. And it sets you up for a good day, I imagine is it?

Heather Pearce Campbell 7:33
Yeah, it will. It’s just that I think any time you can incorporate, first of all some outside air and any you know, something like that into your morning. For me, I’ve really been missing the light because our days are ending so early. Like it’s dark here. Like right now. It’s pretty dark outside, and it’s 445. And so you just lose that window of time to be spending evening hours outside. And I’ve really been missing that and so, so even five minutes a day, I just find incredibly rejuvenating.

Julie Wolk 8:04
Yeah, yeah. Beautiful.

Heather Pearce Campbell 8:05
yeah. Beautiful. So you are in Bend Oregon for now. In fact, yeah, talk to me. So you’re normally in California, you work with people around the world? How did you get started in the coaching space coaching entrepreneurs.

Julie Wolk 8:22
That’s a long story. I’ll give you the short version. So I mean, the way actually I’ll share it, how I kind of ended up in this combination of business coaching and nature. And I think that you know that the nature loving part started long time ago, right. And then in college, I studied ecology and went on to become a environmental activist and organizer and did a lot of kind of, I lived in DC and worked for activists organizations there. And so that was like the first number of years of my career I was doing, like fighting for environmental justice and environmental rights and environmental, like, stopping pollution, I worked on something toxic waste, I think getting cleaned up things like that. So that was kind of for a number of years I was in that world. It’s also where I learned a lot about organizing an event planning and public relations and all that kind of stuff. So that the skills and the marketing and all that kind of started a long time ago. But there was this point where I got to be like so tired of fighting against a system and stopping bad things from happening. And I know how important that work is. And I’m so grateful that there are people doing that work. But I got to a point myself where I was like, I have to do something more generative. I have to I want to help create an alternative paradigm as opposed to like fighting against this one that is especially at that point in time. It was like the Bush years and felt like we’re beating our heads against the wall. I mean, that’s nothing compared to what happened the last four years but I at that time, it was really bad. Yeah, right. And so I ended up I was left DC I moved out west to California and continued doing environmental work. That’s when I was with the rainforest Action Network. And then there was this point where I shifted and got in, it was something was birthed with a few a group of friends. And it was a nonprofit organization to help people reconnect to the earth. And it was this in the spirit of like, creating something for people to do it differently to find, again, that connection to the earth. And so, that work, I’m still involved with that organization, and really learned a lot about business doing that, and, and creating something going from a vision to something that exists in the world and serves people and has a mission and is accomplishing things and doing things. And so that work was really purposeful for me for many, many years. And I got to a point where I was working. so freaking hard. doing that work as a nonprofit, Executive Director, I was co-directing it with my friend who I found it with. And I was working so hard and kind of getting sort of off my purpose in terms of the work that I was doing every day. And after about seven years of that, it became really clear that I was just totally burnt out. And I needed to stop. And it’s sad, because it was really good work, right. And but the way that I was doing the work was not sustainable at all. And you know, I’m not alone in that, right. And we I can, I can talk a lot about the societal pressure and the way our society is constructed, that encourages this kind of obsession with producing all the time. And but I, you know, there was a point where I just I had to let it go. And it was it’s like ironic, right? Because the whole organization was about connecting people to the earth and connecting people and community. And I was just like, up in the middle of the night worrying about, you know, spreadsheets and whether or not we were going to raise enough money to like, cover all the paying everybody. And so at that point, it was very clear, I had to stop, I was privileged enough to be able to take a break to take a few months off, and had you know, this kind of huge epiphany that almost sounds like the dub, but I think the most profound things are kind of done, right? It was like, Oh, wait, I don’t have to do it like this, I don’t have to work myself into the ground in order to be on purpose into good work in the world. And so the, you know, the coaching piece came in at that point where I was like, I love to help people manifest their visions in the world. I love to help people create, help them to create the vision, and then like, actually help them get through the steps to make the thing come alive and be in the world. And I was that I had to do it in a different way than I had in the past. And so that’s after spending a lot of time in nature, probably more time than I’d ever spent consistently in nature. It was like, Oh, yeah, it’s nature’s rhythm, there is a way that we can sync up to this better. And to Bach, this insane system that we’re under, it’s not easy. I mean, it’s hardly like I’m perfect at it, right. But that’s where this idea for a business that brings together a purposeful business with actually managing it, running it doing it in a more sustainable way that’s connected to the to the Earth’s rhythms.

Heather Pearce Campbell 13:13
Hmm. Well, I love I mean, I think it’s such a unique twist, because it’s one thing to be able to appreciate nature, right? Like one of my favorite things outside of working and being a mom is finding adventures in nature with my family with my kiddos, even something as simple as taking them on walks and looking at the leaves and people’s gardens, like whatever we can accomplish close to home. And yet taking it to like a step further of like, what can nature teach us about being in business, I feel like that’s a really, really special twist. So I’m excited to get into that more, because I know you have a whole system like the seven biggest leaks of time, energy and money or whatever. So I’m super excited about that. And I am still wanting to revisit this concept about sometimes we have to do something like into the ground until we have our aha or moments of like, Oh my gosh, here’s how, like, we have to do it differently. Or here’s how we can do it better. Because I think, unfortunately, it does often take people getting to that really hard spot of literally forcing a decision of Am I gonna keep going and if I am I can’t do it this way. And like, why is that is it? You know, I just be really curious, your personal insights, whether it’s from your own journey, whether it’s from working with all the people that you’ve coached, like why it takes things getting so hard before sometimes we realize like, I guess with total certainty that something has to change,

Julie Wolk 14:50
Right? Like what Yeah, I’ll speak from my experience, but I tend to work with people who are, you know, similar and so maybe and I know that you’re also kind of a hard-working, overachieving type like I am. And so maybe you can tell me if this resonates for you. But I find that with, in particular with people who like our mo is to work hard, hit the goals, make it happen, and do it right. And do it really well, that there’s a part of me that doesn’t want to give up. There’s a part of me that wants to succeed. And I know for some people, it’s also, you know, how does this look right? I get, I run into that, too. There’s an ego piece associated, you know, did I accomplish the goal, but a lot of it is just this patterning that we have, were we just like continue that instead of like thinking about, Wait, is that does the goal still make sense? Is this supporting me is, this still aligned with what I even want to be doing with my life? And then being able to take a step back, that our tendency is to just like, kind of keep on pushing through until we make the thing happen? And this is something that I’ve learned over time is there’s definitely a personal pressure that we put on ourselves. Absolutely. But that personal pressure comes from living in, in a society that values, hard work and productivity over humanity, and connection. And a lot of that is actually rooted in white supremacy as well. Right. I mean, there’s been a lot written lately. I mean, there’s an article by Kenneth Jones and Tim Oken about the 15 kind of hallmarks of white supremacy in organizations and businesses. And one of them is urgency. One of them is perfectionism, right? And one of them is this idea that more is better, essentially, that producing more is that is the goal, right? Yeah. And we so this is so deeply ingrained in our society, and then we, I grew up in it, like a smaller society where I grew up, it was very important to do well in school and all this right, upper-middle-class upbringing. And so there are all these ways that we’re, it’s just so ingrained to do this hard-working thing. And so people get to this point of burnout, and then it’s like, too late, and you have to stop and you have this big epiphany. And what I would, I would love to do is like, catch people before that happens, right? And I feel like that’s my mission. Like, I don’t have to get all the way to that point. So what I want to do is reach people who are the type, right, you’re the type that works hard, you can feel this isn’t probably not so great. And like maybe there’s another way, right, maybe what you’re doing isn’t so aligned with what actually you want to create in the world, and how we can even change the world, because we’re not going to change things, if we just keep like pushing hard and driving, like, that’s not going to change the world, that’s not going to change how we do business. You know, this is the same pattern that destroys the environment, right? This is hard work this overconsumption is do more, have more, be more, it’s also contributing to the like buying more and destroying more, I mean, it’s all the same energy. So if we want to shift how the world works, we have to unplug from it ourselves. And it’s not easy, like I said, but we have to become aware so that we can start to unplug from it.

Heather Pearce Campbell 18:01
Well, I love the beautiful overlays of these other concepts that I hadn’t even thought about, like how they inform our approach to work, you know, like this, the relationship to white supremacy, or, you know, and definitely, like, I understand my own upbringing, and the whole, you know, probably a lot of the same programming you got about school being important and good grades and all of that stuff. I feel like the trick in business, and I think, you know because nobody starts off like knowing everything that they have to do to have a successful business. And so it’s this long process of kind of layering on the right you layer on this teaching point, you layer on this teaching point, you layer on this other thing you have to do to help run your business you and it’s it, like you do that for so long. And I think you reach a point where you then have to go through this unlearning process, right? Because you have to shed what is not yours You have to remove the layers that are not actually a fit for your business, you put them on there because somebody told you to or you thought that you needed to learn that particular thing or right and so I feel like there’s kind of this evolution that I see a lot of people go through where there’s some point where you really take ownership of what you’re creating and sometimes you’re doing that in the midst of a breaking point right of like, okay, like I’m so far down this path that is not working because it’s it’s this process, like you said of pushing too hard, it’s the pushing energy versus you know, the creative energy or even the receiving energy of like being open to what shows up and, and there’s something as hard as that is, there’s also something really magical about reaching that point and reaching that space and turning what you’ve built so far into something that has a lot more intention and thought and behind it, right? So it’s like a little bit of a challenge to like want to prevent people from reaching that point because you want them to make the decision with so much clarity about what path they are choosing, but there’s no more questioning themselves about it. Right? Does that make sense? Totally. Yeah. And

Julie Wolk 20:18
I mean, I think without any friction, right, people aren’t going to make change in their lives. I guess I’m like, let’s just do before the point where you literally have to like, quit your business. Right?

Heather Pearce Campbell 20:26
Well right, exactly. Where you just walk away and right.

Julie Wolk 20:29
And then people do that. I mean, it happens all the time. Right? Like, you know, I don’t remember the statistics, but like, some crazy percentage of businesses fail after the first year.

Heather Pearce Campbell 20:39
Even those statistics aside, looking at current statistics, right, like 1 million women in the workforce walked away from their work in the month of September alone. Right. So I mean, you know, even other statistics, right? It’s too much. So I think the conversation is so necessary.

Julie Wolk 20:59
And something you said, it really triggered a thought in me, which is that the so when you learn all these things, this business coach says this, and this marketing person says this, and all this, I should do this, and this, and then there’s like the shiny and that looks good. Maybe I’ll try that. And you integrate, you’re like you layer all the things on all things. And I found that that sped up like everything has kind of amplified during the pandemic and all this crazy year, that even more there was just more like you got to do this and you get your want to save your business, you’ve got to do this pivot pivot, right? Like all this. Even more incoming, right. And so people are like layering all this stuff on and, and what’s happening is that we, it’s too cluttered up and we stopped listening to ourselves. And so this is where nature comes in. Right? This is the thing is that when you have, you’ve gained some insight, you’ve learned some things, you’ve got 20 different people telling you what to do. I’m not saying throw it all away. I’m not saying throw the baby out with the bathwater. There’s plenty of great marketing strategies out there. We don’t want to just be like, Oh, I’m not doing that. Because somebody told me it would work. It’s more like, okay, so you’ve got some ideas, you’ve been doing things for a while in your business, you know, what’s working, what’s not working, you have to take that pause, you have to take that step back to listen to yourself, about what to do next in your business, right. It’s like, what do you do when no, and when nobody really knows the answer? And certainly nobody knows the answer for you. Right, and I, again, I don’t mean, throw the baby out with the bathwater, but I mean, like, take your information in, and then take that step back. And really feel in your own intuition about what the right next move is. Is this marketing strategy feel right to me? Can I change it in some way? Or make it feel like my own is this? What should I be focusing on right now? And so the reason I take people on retreats and take them out into nature, or send them out into nature, depending or virtual or in person, right? The reason I do that is because it’s all of a sudden, you can hear the answers that you cannot hear when you were in the busy productivity obsessed society that tells you to keep adding more and more and more, more marketing strategies, more offers more this more everything, right? It’s like a time to be like, Okay, what am I going to let go of? And then what am I going to actually focus on? That feels right to me, that feels aligned to me? What so then that’s, to me, that brings it full circle back to like, why nature?

Heather Pearce Campbell 23:26
Yes. And I love the way that you worded that just then and I don’t know exactly how you said it. But this caught this, basically, the relationship of nature being the mechanism where you create the space, right, you create the time for them to slow down and take that pause and listen. And I think that is crucial. And it’s really challenging to achieve in most modern-day lives. And so, yeah, it’s just a beautiful combination of being able to associate that pause and that reflectivity or that ability to reflect with nature and a ritual or just taking that time. And I’m sure, especially as you go along, coaching your regular clients, that that’s somehow regularly Incorporated, if I were to guess.

Julie Wolk 24:13
Yes, and often people whenever, you know, we’re on a retreat, and people go out into nature for a couple of hours, almost everyone comes back with some kind of commitment to do that more often. Right? You know, it doesn’t have to be that complicated. Like you already said at the beginning of our call, like the five minutes you take in the morning with your tea and putting your feet on the earth, right? So and I’m also I’m like, the last person to do something every day like, I don’t think I’ve ever done a practice every day. I’m just not that person. Yeah. And so I also especially during these times, like we just we can’t put pressure on ourselves. Like, I’m gonna go and spend 30 minutes sitting quietly in nature every single day, whatever. If you can’t do that, I don’t do that. Like I can’t do that right now. I also have a toddler and all that business, right? Right. But you do what you can to take that space and part of the reason that I that I do retreat is because it works. quarters people like you put the money down, right? You’re gonna, you’re gonna do it now. But people don’t take it for that taking a step back and committing to it saying like, Oh, I am going to take these three days to like step back and listen and slow down and strategize and streamline and let some things go and do business smarter so that I can save time in the long run. Because, again, when we’re doing this one, we’re sped up and doing it quickly, you know, in the day to day of our business, that we’re not thinking about these bigger picture ways that we can actually be more aligned and more strategic and how we do our work.

Heather Pearce Campbell 25:31
Yeah, well, and I think the power anytime, like you do with your clients like other business coaches do, where you create space for people to transform either an aspect of themselves and aspect of their business, even the way that they think about something in their life or their business. As for me, I recently led a group through this little program that I launched, it’s called the leap lab. And it was a morning practice that we all did at 6am together for two weeks, knowing I knew full well, the likelihood of people continuing that on their own was probably not that high, right? They paid money, they showed up every day for the two weeks. And so that was awesome. But what I was hoping is that they would take one or two things away from that morning ritual that we did together that they could do on the fly anytime they thought about it right. And even making those small shifts, I think, and probably like you teach your clients, even those small shifts of being able to reflect and be quiet and pause for ourselves can have huge results. So talk with us a little bit about how your work has evolved. I know you work with people around the world, obviously right now I’m sure. It’s largely if not exclusively, online, and through the interwebs. Who are your clients? What kind of work are they doing in the world?

Julie Wolk 26:50
My clients are generally identified coaches and consultants and healers and other service-based business owners, anybody? If you’re selling products, you’re I don’t know that much. I mean, you could probably learn a lot. But you’re, yeah, not my specialty. So but it’s, it’s these this kind of hard worker set, right. So generally, I’m working with people who I need to tell them you need to take a break, but not the people who are kind of swimming in indecision. That’s another kind of one, not the one that I have best suited to helping people with, probably from my you know, because of my own experience, but they’re doing incredible work a lot of my clients are doing are also doing work to help people reconnect to the earth, whether it’s through like food and nutrition, or whether it’s actually taking people outside or whether it’s running a nature school or doing some kind of like earthy healing practice, not everybody, but I do tend to and I work, I’ve worked with landscapers, I tend to work with people who definitely are there who desire to have a deeper connection to the earth and want to swim in a community of people who also have values like that.

Heather Pearce Campbell 27:52
Yeah, no, I love that. You know, there really is. The funny thing is like, you’re speaking my language with the hard work and the Push, push, push, right, I ended up in law. And I remember early in my career in the legal field of like, asking that question, a little bit like, what comes first the chicken or the egg? Does this field does this industry just attract a lot of kind of hard pushing type A behaviors? And I think the answer is yes. And then it layers on right, it compounds the problem. And I think there are plenty of other industries that do that, right. And especially when you have top achievers and people who are goal-oriented, I think it’s really easy to end up ways down that road. Talk to me about where your clients are at so that for people listening, right, and again, we’re talking about not pushing ourselves to the point of exhaustion, or you know, the place in the road where we throw in the towel, or we give up but what are they experiencing right now or in you know, on their path when they intersect with you? That makes them go? Oh, yeah, I really need to talk to Julie or I need somebody like Julie, what is their experience inside their business?

Julie Wolk 29:05
Right? Yeah, that’s a great question. And I have a couple of stories I can share. And I do want to say because as entrepreneurs, I do feel that we have more flexibility and freedom to do business how we want to whereas if you’re working at the law firm, or if you’re working at the nonprofit, right? There’s a whole nonprofit culture, there’s a law firm culture, and I’m not saying that can’t be changed, and that, you know, it needs to be changed. But in the entrepreneurial world, there is, of course, this huge element like the bro-ey, like do it more, you know, post every day like, you know, hard-driving the hustler wins the fight. I mean, there is that presence, and it’s a pretty loud presence, but I feel that we because especially as small business owners, like without, you know, we did we have the decision to do it differently, right. It’s easier for us to unplug and say, Yep, we’re gonna do this differently. For example, I have a longtime client who is actually on her second business now. But when we first started, she was an event planner, and really had grown a business very quickly, was had actually gotten to six figures in revenue, and was booking clients and you know, doing great work. And she felt at the same time, like she was working so hard. with zero help. She wasn’t taking home, nearly enough of that money. Because she wasn’t charging enough. She was over giving undercharging and over giving.

Heather Pearce Campbell 30:33

Julie Wolk 30:34
She had a hard time. I mean, she was doing every logistic for everything. And you know, the awesome size, like, quick growing business, you had a lot of good word of mouth marketing, like it was amazing. It was great, right? And this woman is like, again, high achieving, hard-working, super bright, super amazing woman and she needs help like slowing down just the same as you do and I do. Right? Like someone to say like, hey, well, let’s take a step back and look at how you’re doing your business. And let’s make it easier because I tend to work with people who are like, just working too hard for their money, you know, that song always gets in my head when I say that, and now it’s probably in your head to the listener. So good. It’s so good. So yeah, but it’s, that’s the thing. It’s like, it’s their clients, there’s money, but you’re just working too hard for it, right. And so when this woman came to me, it was like, okay, there was it was just a flurry, everything, which is moving super quickly. And it was exciting, and it was exhausting. And one of the big, like big shifts that she had was just being on a retreat, and like having the experience of slowing down and being like, Oh, I can take a step back from this. And I can, This is my business, I get to do it how I want to actually. Right? Having that realization, it just doesn’t you don’t have to just go on autopilot, you can be really intentional about how you create and craft your business. So she, you know, we helped her figure out what are the roles that she needed to give away? And how to find that person? And what are the rates that are actually going to serve her and her clients? And you know, what are the systems that she needs to create so that she’s not reinventing the wheel every time and all these different pieces? It How does she focus who she’s working with? So that because she also had this problem of like clients who were too, you know, who were just kind of wanted too much. They were the kind of high need high maintenance kind of clients. And so like getting really clear on who are the people and who aren’t the people and whose values are aligned with you and who’s aren’t. And I remember she fired a couple clients. She’s like, this isn’t working for me. Right, she tightened up, she started giving herself I mean events, you’re working on the weekends, right? And so oftentimes, so she started, okay, well, Monday and Tuesday then has to be the weekend, right, just starting to implement those things, where she hadn’t before, and just really shifting both the structure of her business, but also that mindset, because so much of this is mindset to like, we haven’t even gotten to that part, right, this whole thing of having kind of poor or leaky boundaries, as I call them in your business. A lot of it, you know, when you over give and undercharge and see clients when you actually don’t want to be because you want to be with your family or design or whatever. It’s not just a matter of putting something on your schedule, it’s also a matter of, of these kind of underlying shifts that we have to make in terms of how we think about ourselves, how we value ourselves and our time, you know, whether we think we’re worthy of people paying us X amount, you know, all these different pieces, that that kind of underlie these different beliefs that underlie the behaviors that we do that end up hurting us. So there’s this whole other layer of work that we need to do as well, to shift the underlying belief so that we can make changes to our, you know, it’s like, oh, make a schedule change. Sure, it sounds great. But or you can actually do it. No, not until you actually shift the belief that says, you know, my time isn’t worth it, or I have to, like, give these people so much. Or they’re, they’re going to leave or something, right. There’s kind of this scarcity, fear or whatever it is, right? Yeah. Many different forms.

Heather Pearce Campbell 33:59
So well, it’s funny, because a couple of these concepts, like they sound so easy to talk about, right? Even this idea of like, well, we’re in charge of the business that we create, like, obviously, we can create it and map it how we want to, and yet, I feel like it’s so easy for people to end up creating a business that actually doesn’t feel that way. And the business runs them. Yeah. And you know, and I think it gets back to this process of layering on like, just doing one more thing, or adding one more thing or making one more decision without really questioning everything that we’re doing. And I think when we get to the point of really like asking a lot of questions around like any change that we make, or anything that we just think, oh, I’ll layer this on or I’ll add this to my schedule, like really evaluating big picture strategy of does this work right? And I know you’ve got like, I’m sure you’ve got a whole series your, you know, seven most common entrance leaks in our businesses? How you know, I’m sure there’s a variety of lenses that we can put on to look at how these things happen. Do you want to walk us through that list?

Julie Wolk 35:10
Sure. Yeah. And I’ll do this on the brief side because I can, you know, I have some videos on my, actually, my Instagram page where people can if you want to, like, learn way more about each of these leaks, so I’m gonna, I’ll try to keep it on the brief side.

Heather Pearce Campbell 35:23
No, absolutely. And I’ll just interject real quick that if you’re following if you’re still listening to this conversation, be sure to hop over to the show notes, which can be found at legalwebsitewarrior.com/podcast and we will put all of Julie’s links, including her social media, links to the videos, and then anything else that you want us to post there. Julie?

Julie Wolk 35:43
Awesome. Yeah. So the context for this is that I find that people are again, kind of heads down, like moving quickly, and not thinking about all these places in their businesses that are actually leaking, slowly leaking, and creating draining, time-draining money, draining energy from ourselves, so that we get to we eventually get to that burnout place, right? And so the leaks can happen slowly. And over time, you’re like, Oh, my God, I feel like crap, this isn’t working. This is too hard, right? And so what, what we need to do is take that step back and look at the big picture of the whole business and say, Okay, what are the different places where I’m leaking? And how can I seal up those leaks and become more aligned, I have a more aligned flow of energy? I mean, if you look, if you think about it, I’ll get to the actual leaks in just a minute. But if you think about a pipe, you know, that has actual leaks in it, right. And then you think about closing up the leaks. And you can imagine how the water flows through the pipe at a very, like nice flow, whereas before it was kind of dribbling out, or spurting out or whatever, right, depending on how big the leak is. And so it’s the same, it’s like, that’s our energy, right. And so when we seal the leaks, we get this like the aligned flow of energy through our bodies that we can use to fuel our dreams and our visions and our goals. And so these different leaks that I’ll share help will help you seal up and create that more line flow, which is really what I call natural productivity, right? Because in our society, it’s like this hamster wheel. prototyping is like more and more and more things, do more, do more, do more all the layers you were talking about, right? And that is this kind of robot productivity where we don’t honor the ebb in the natural cycle, right. And the natural cycle has an active phase and resting phase day and night, summer winter, right? It’s just like that. But this productivity that our society promotes is like, the more and more never stopped productivity, the kind of productivity I’m talking about is what comes when you are aligned, and the leaks are sealed up, and there’s energy flowing through you to do your work. Right. And I’m sure you’ve probably felt that, you know, when you’re really on purpose and align, and things are going it’s like you’ve had this natural energy, right? Yep. Yeah. So that’s what we’re going for. So the first leak actually is primary in a lot of ways because this the first leak is kind of like your purpose leak. And this is your, this is a big piece of what I do with clients is we look at the business model itself. It’s like, are you doing the work that you’re really meant to be doing? Right? Are you? Are you using your gifts in the way that you’re meant to be using them? Or are you doing work? You don’t really like? Or are you working with clients you don’t really like? Or are you offering too many different things, right? Is your business model kind of, Oh, I have this and this, but it doesn’t all connect and you and some things are working and some things aren’t. But you’re putting a ton of energy in and you’re trying to market 10 things. And it’s exhausting. Right.

Heather Pearce Campbell 38:42
So there’s a there? Yes. And if your heart’s not in it, if you’re not really like being able to work from your purpose, I would say it’s even more exhausting.

Julie Wolk 38:51
Oh, yeah, exactly. I mean, that’s, that’s why it’s the first week that I talked about it. Because if you’re misaligned in your purpose, you’re not going to be excited about your work. And guess what? growing a business is hard work. Like I’m not saying we are wrong, people think like, Oh, we can make it easy. It’s not easy to run a business. But there are things we can do to make it more useful, right. And you are going to have to work hard, but you need to have the resting the EDD in order to fuel the flow, right? So we have to have this kind of balance in our lives. We can’t just keep doing going. So right. So the purpose pieces is so important, but people will say, you know, I can’t do that. Because, you know, if I stopped seeing these clients, they’re the money is going to stop, right? There are all these reasons we give, you know, some of them have some legitimacy, for sure. But there are ways that we can recraft our businesses so that we are serving the people that were meant to serve to do the work we’re meant to do. And we’re or we create a business model that actually supports our vision for our life instead of sucking it dry.

Heather Pearce Campbell 39:48

Julie Wolk 39:49
Yeah. So so many leaks close up. They’re a little a simple one for people to do is letting go of a problem client, right? Yes, redesign your whole business model. That’s going to take some time, you know, That’s work that I do with clients over the long term. But like if you’re listening right now, and you’re like, what can I do here? It’s just thinking about one offer that you have that’s just not resonating for you anymore, or one. Yeah, one client that’s like, and let it go. Yes, let it go.

Heather Pearce Campbell 40:16
Yeah. And even getting even backtracking to the point of like, what are the pathways into your business that are allowing certain of that client right? So if you just have an open calendaring system, and you’re getting people on your calendar that are just not ready to commit? Maybe you add a questionnaire, you do something to qualify them, right. I love that.

Julie Wolk 40:37
Exactly clarifying who the person is, and then filtering out so that only the right people are getting in the people that are serious about working with you, and the people that you know, are going to be a great fit. Yes, yes. 100%. And then marketing falls into this category to a lot of people are doing kind of like, you know, spaghetti at the wall marketing. And what you want to do is create a more organized, I call them marketing machines, which is so not earthy, but that’s because some things need to be mechanized.

Heather Pearce Campbell 41:03
Right. The point there, and I totally get what you’re saying is it’s doing the work without you having to do all the work, right. Yes, exactly. Yeah, yep.

Julie Wolk 41:12
Yeah. So that’s the big one. That’s the current purpose or the focus leak. And then this, the second one is around time and calendar. And you know, briefly, This one is one where we try like to do something and it get we get foiled. Because we just let the other thing creep back in. Yes. And sometimes it takes a lot of practice and a lot of underlying shifting to really create a new kind of way of working. But I’ll give you a really quick example of a client who has a young daughter, and it’d be like five or six, and she was there. Her mornings were super busy trying to get her This is like pre-pandemic, trying to get her kid off to school, eat breakfast, all the things right and get to client start clients at night, right? She was an eco therapist. And this might sound silly, but like, honestly, she did one small shift in her schedule. She started her clients at 10 instead of nine. Yeah. And like, it was a game-changer for her have an extra morning hour in the morning to be with my daughter and have a nice breakfast with her and get her off to school and not be like rushing to my first line rate these little things, right. Yeah. And so and she actually ended up raising her rates too, because it allowed her to actually just ditch that client to you know, to like, not add it in somewhere else. And then you could just add it somewhere else. But you could also say, hey, what would it take? This is the third week is not having the right pricing, right. And so she decided to raise her rates a little bit so that she could, you know, just have one less client per day, right? Yeah, those are some smaller, simpler shifts.

Heather Pearce Campbell 42:38
Yes. Well, and I love those. And sometimes it takes somebody else asking us that question before we actually will ask it of ourselves, right. And it’s just challenging, because when you’re in it and working the best way that you know how sometimes we simply aren’t able to spot these things about our own businesses, of course, right.

Julie Wolk 43:00
Yeah. And if you worked a nine to five before, you’ve maybe you still think you need to work a nine to five, right? Right, right. It’s just these things that we just integrate, and we don’t even realize, so that’s why it’s awesome to have coaching and community because it’s like, oh, you’re doing that thing. You don’t need to do that. You can do it differently. You know, I love that thing. Right? Yeah. So yeah, I mean, I’m also big on, you know, creating what I call a self-care first schedule. So really putting in what you need to feel like on a daily, weekly, monthly annual basis, what do you need to feel whole and healthy. And, of course, you do your best to do it every day, or whatever the practices and you’re not perfect, and we’re not perfect, and that’s fine. But you’re orienting your schedule so that you’re putting the personal stuff, the self care, the family stuff that whatever is the most important goes in there first. And like for me, that’s my health. I have a chronic illness. It’s my health. It’s my family, and then my business.

Heather Pearce Campbell 43:52
Yeah. That’s how it’s got to be real. I’m so glad you raised this. I mean, I can say from a personal standpoint, like I have not done that. Well, like self-care first, like why, you know what I mean? It’s kind of like self-care is the thing that really ends up last on my schedule. It shouldn’t, but it does. And I think a lot of people can relate to that. Do you mind pausing on this, this topic for a moment and telling us a little bit about your own journey in regards to you know, self-care and doing this with a chronic illness? And being Mom, I know, you’re a mom of a little person as well, like, there’s so much there. Yeah, there’s so much

Julie Wolk 44:30
and I have certainly gotten better with it over time. And it’s not it’s a work in progress. Always. Yeah. And this pandemic in this crazy year has definitely thrown a wrench in things right. And so, you know, for me what this looks like, again, you know, I tried it, my practices, take a long weekend and really unplug fully and be with my daughter. And it’ll be three days like Friday. Saturday, Sunday, some weeks like I take Mondays, and so it just depends on you know what’s going on. But and then I, I tend to, you know, kind of go for it during the week, you know, like Monday through Thursday, I’m like, okay, 10 to five, I’m going for it. I have to say, I think having a kid makes it easier in some ways to just have the boundary, I have better boundaries now that I’m a mom. And before I stopped, you know, I stopped at five and I’m with her, you know? And so that’s, that’s helpful. I will say that.

Heather Pearce Campbell 45:29
What would you say to people who are struggling with setting that boundary, right, there are so many people right now that are working at home. I mean, like my experience, you know, two children, one of them who has to kind of Kwazii be plugged into school, sometimes it happens. Sometimes that doesn’t really happen. a three-year-old and working on top of it, no childcare, right. So there’s, there’s gonna be folks that are just like, asking, like, how do I set boundaries right now? How do I allow myself to be done at five and actually have any semblance of a normal life?

Julie Wolk 46:01
Oh my gosh, yeah, totally. Well, there are so many layers to it. So the first one is, is we spoke about this before Heather is, is recalibrating expectations? Yes. Right. Especially now always, because the high achiever hard worker types, like we have really freaking high expectations of ourselves, we’re gonna get done. And then our society tells us, you’re gonna get this much done. And this is what success looks like, and yada, yada, yada. So first of all, it’s recalibrating what’s actually possible and in trying to detach the ego, part of it, of, you know, what I think I need to create from like, what do I really need to create what’s really most important for me in my life, and then setting goals that are inspiring and get you excited to do the thing, but aren’t going that are still doable, there’s the reasonable, and again, especially now, so first of all, it’s just like, be easy on yourselves. People like this is intense, this is hard times we’re going through this. So not normal or easy. And so it’s just being easy on ourselves and letting go of some things. There’s a way that I think we can get really, this is an opportunity to get really precise in what we are doing and not doing in our businesses. And this one marketing strategy is working well for me, I’m just going to do this, right and forget the other stuff. This is like an old trick, but I learned it like a million years ago, the five DS, people probably heard of it, but it’s like ditch delay, delegate, downsize or do, right, and I go through my to do list constantly. I’m like, do I really need to do this now? Yes. Do I really need to do this so big? Could I do a little version of this? You know, and I’m constantly trashing my to do list with this in mind. Right? And so it’s like, that’s what that’s like a nice little hint. Right? We can sometimes, oh, I don’t really need to do this. You know, is this deadline, a self imposed? Like, does anybody else care if I get it done by next week? Nope. Fine. Do it in two weeks. Do it next month, right? So part of it is just being easy on ourselves and shifting our expectations and ditching delaying downsize and whatever you need to do.

Heather Pearce Campbell 48:05
Yeah. Oh, I love that. Really piece of it? Yes. The other thing that I love going even back to this concept of scheduling and self care, like it just struck me Because right now, like my days mush together, I’m sure there’s other people who, you know, may be listening, go, Oh, my gosh, yes. Like there are literally some days where I’m like, What is it Tuesday or Saturday? I can’t tell the difference between these days. Right. But I think because one of the shifts that I need to make is literally scheduling my downtime. I haven’t done it because the weekends became my overflow time, right. But the problem now is, I think that if I were to schedule my downtime, I’d have an easier time, really mustering what it takes to stay focused during the week or the hours that I set during the week, get the work done. And so that’s something that I’m like, Hmm, I wonder if things would shift for me if I just scheduled the downtime? Yes, really stuck to those boundaries. So that my work time, I could really say, okay, Heather, this is it. This is all you’ve got you better focus because I’m finding that my focus has really lagged

Julie Wolk 49:13
100%. And this is this shift this that the ever has to fuel the flow, and then we have to rest and that’s going to fuel the action. And there’s a trust, there’s a bit of trust that has to happen first, to say, I’m just going to carve it out, and I’m going to not do the thing that I was going to do this weekend. I’m just going to carve it out to not work, right. And there’s a little bit of a leap of faith there initially, but I would be really curious. Maybe we can check back in like what does it look like? You know, if you didn’t for people listening, what does it look like to just have the full weekend to have the full unplug and if you have kids, I just heard this woman saying, she’s not a business. It wasn’t even a business thing. There’s a woman named Christina Rasmussen, who was talking about parents and having spaciousness to oneself and you it’s it’s hard for me to have like time totally alone, but If I’m with my daughter on the weekend, and we are alone for a couple hours, and I don’t have an agenda, I can be really present with her. Yeah, you know, and that can still be really nourishing. And parenting is easier when you’re present with your kids anyways. So you can still have downtime. It’s a little different. I know, she has two and a half. But like, if you can still get that feeling of presence, and focus on something joyful as even as a parent to so I don’t think that’s, I think we can do that with our kids too. And so that’s, I think, just taking the leap and doing it and trusting that the end needs to fuel the flow is a big is a big piece of this also for sure. Hmm.

Heather Pearce Campbell 50:39
I love that. I love that there. I feel like there’s so many ways that we all can be evaluating right now, like what we’re doing are boundaries clear, because even though things have gotten squishier, like there’s so much overlap, I feel like the thing that saves us is boundaries. Yeah. Right. And it’s really challenging to have those. So it’s like you have to double up on the boundaries to be able to be able to enjoy yourself when you’re doing whatever it is that you’re doing. So, Julie, for folks that are listening and want to connect with you, where do you like to show up online.

Julie Wolk 51:13
I have a fairly new Instagram account. And I’m Juliecwolk on Instagram So you can find me there for sure you can join my email list on my website. And I also wanted to share with people that I mentioned retreats, and we’ve seen one in January. And it’s called the replenish retreat. It’s an annual retreat this year it is I’m calling it virtual ish. Certainly not live at the retreat center, I usually do it out. But this is for women entrepreneurs who need a break, right? And our goal is to slow down and streamline and strategize for more time and money and energy in your business and your life. And we’re going to do that while getting outside into nature for quiet reflection and listening to Mother Earth. We’re gonna move our bodies we’re going to do some art and you’re going to get to like Connect deeply with amazing women. I’ve been doing these virtually actually and they’ve been awesome and we are not on zoom for like three days straight. That’s not how it is. I even encourage people to rent an Airbnb or a hotel room if they can get away. Yeah. And so and for people who are listening to this, we have a special code for your listeners. Oh, get $100 off of that retreat.

Heather Pearce Campbell 52:42
No that’s amazing. And just so folks who know that are listening because we have to disclose it that is an affiliate code, but it saves you money so that’s awesome. And Julie so generous of you. I know that so many women oh my gosh I you know actually the thing that caused me to launch my little leap lab experiment was being in circles of women where women were just reaching burnout repeatedly. You know, and I know you and I were talking even I think it was before we went live but I can’t remember now about you know September a million women leaving the workforce you know in September alone and so this issue of burnout is huge. So if you’re a woman and you’re listening I highly recommend you check out Julie’s work I just love the way that you approach your coaching Julie the you know tie in these concepts of nature and natural rhythms. It’s, it’s you know, I feel like it is a constant journey for myself to remember these things and to not push myself so hard. So I know that others out there need to hear this as well and we will share I know you’re also working on a quiz which we will share that link if you get that live?

Julie Wolk 53:56
Yes, it was supposed to be ready today but you know how things go.

Heather Pearce Campbell 54:00
You know, this is a no stress zone. This is just a no stress and I just wanted to mention it because people love quizzes and that will be in the show notes as well. So if you’re listening Be sure to check that out at legal website warrior.com forward slash podcast. Julie I’ve so enjoyed connecting with you again any final thoughts for our listeners you’ve I mean you’ve covered a lot of ground and there have been some amazing insights shared any final words that you’d like to leave us with.

Julie Wolk 54:30
I would love if everybody who is listening would make a tiny commitment to spending just a little bit of time in nature today or tomorrow and even if it’s like Heather just putting your feet on the earth bare feet for five minutes. And even if it’s maybe you don’t want to do barefoot in the snow but even if it’s cold outgoing outside and not even going on a big like run or exercise or just being present with the natural world for five minutes. 10 minutes, however long you have. Just because it’s these little tiny commitments that get us going, right? Just try one, five minute 10 minute little experience in HR, just feel your senses slow down, feel your senses, take some deep breaths, feel the earth under you.

Heather Pearce Campbell 55:14
I love it. Well, and I, especially in the pandemic, you know, we’ve been much more caged in, if you will, like, I’ve got two busy little people in this household. You know, it’s interesting, but these little moments if you can grab them, if you can create them. It’s like the other night, I noticed that the clouds had shifted in the sky cleared, and I looked outside the window, and it was bedtime, like it was kiddos bedtime. You know, one of them was getting ready. The other one was not quite ready, but I just grabbed my husband, I was like, Come outside, put your jacket on. And we just went and stood outside and looked at the stars for five minutes, because we could see them the sky had cleared. And like it really is that I mean, those small moments are really helping me get through. I will just say that as a final point.

Julie Wolk 56:02
And dizzy people smart, small moments. It’s all about the small moments. Yes, I

Heather Pearce Campbell 56:06
Yes, I think. Sometimes we don’t do this stuff. Because we think like, Oh, I don’t really have an hour to do it right? Or I can’t go get a full walk in or I can’t do you know, whatever the big thing is in your mind. And I think that, like right now more than ever putting the bar really, really low and saying okay, what can I do for three minutes? Five minutes. Like that might be doable? Yes, totally.

Julie Wolk 56:30
Everybody can do three minutes, right?

Heather Pearce Campbell 56:32
That’s right. That’s right. Oh, well. Thank you so much, Julie. Again, I was so grateful for you and for bringing this conversation on to the guts and guts, grit and great business podcast. If you’re listening, please pop over to Apple podcast or wherever you listen to your podcast and give us a rating give us five stars. We’d love to have your support and sharing this with others who might be interested in the same types of conversations that help entrepreneurs build thriving sustainable businesses. Julie, thank you and we will talk again very soon.

Julie Wolk 57:09
Thank you so much, Heather. Take care.

GGGB Intro 57:17
Thank you for joining us today on the Guts Grit and Great Business podcast. We hope that we’ve added a little fuel to your tank, some coffee to your cup, and pep in your step to keep you moving forward in your own great adventures. For key takeaways links to any resources mentioned in today’s show and more, visit the shownotes at www.legalwebsitewarrior.com/podcast. Be sure to subscribe to the podcast and if you enjoyed today’s conversation, please give us some stars and a review on Apple podcasts, Spotify or wherever you get your podcast so others will find us to keep up the great work you are doing in the world and we’ll see you next week.