With Linda Clemons, a global speaker and expert in sales and body language as well as the CEO of Sisterpreneur Inc. Linda has worked with the White House, the FBI, Southwest Airlines, Nestle, and through her international business empowers women entrepreneurs around the world.

Join us for this conversation where we discuss what it takes to get through tough times, what happened when Linda reached her “never again” point, and the importance of nurturing our network, and planting seeds during economic downturns. We discuss high tech vs. high touch, Linda’s entrepreneurial roots, and the importance of knowing your customer, including being able to read their non-verbal cues and body language. Linda is a powerhouse. You don’t want to miss this terrific conversation about the path of entrepreneurship, especially during economically challenging times.

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Biggest takeaways (or quotes) you don’t want to miss:

  • “The greater will come later but you have to do the work now.”
  • High tech will never replace high touch.
  • Every large company started with a dream.
  • Stop thinking of yourself as an employee.
  • So many people in sales are too busy broadcasting and missing cues.

Check out these highlights:

2:40 “We are all in this together and we will all come out better rather than bitter.”

6:50 Why now is the time to think of what you can do greater.

7:40 “Your network can impact your net worth.”

10:00 Why you need to develop high touch.

12:56 When you are a producer you can begin to multiply your resources.

14:00 Why you have to stop thinking of yourself as an employee.

17:00 Why you need to know your product.

18:30 Why it’s so important to read cues.

23:00 Why being a radical listener is crucial.

24:30 What is confirmation bias?

29:20 Why you need to be open to possibilities.

37:00 You need to take the time to understand how to relate to your customers.

40:00 Put people first- customers, clients and employees.

41:50 Why you need to know everything about your business.

How to get in touch with Linda Clemons:

On social media:




Linda Clemons is a global speaker, expert in sales, body language expert and the CEO of Sisterpreneur Inc.

Learn more about Linda here: www.lindaclemons.com

Imperfect Show Notes

We are happy to offer these imperfect show notes to make this podcast more accessible to those who are hearing impaired or those who prefer reading over listening. While we would love to offer more polished show notes, we are currently offering an automated transcription (which likely includes errors, but hopefully will still deliver great value), below.

GGGB Intro  00:00

Coming up today on Guts, Grit and Great Business. 

Linda Clemons  00:04

So greater may come later and you’ve got to do the work now you and I can’t unless it’s a cheetah but other than cheetah pick where you pour the water on and it grows the plants, how often does any farmer go out and plant seeds, and then expect a crop the next day? You got to get out there and plant the seeds now. So what are the areas that you need to work on? So let’s take inventory, is it my relationship building if you’re a business owner, you’re an entrepreneur. If you are simply a professional, your network can impact your net worth.

GGGB Intro  00:37

The adventure of entrepreneurship and building a life and business you love, preferably at the same time is not for the faint of heart. That’s why Heather Pearce Campbell is bringing you a dose of guts, grit and great business stories that will inspire and motivate you to create what you want in your business and life. Welcome to the Guts, Grit and Great Business podcast where endurance is required. Now, here’s your host, The Legal Website Warrior®, Heather Pearce Campbell.

Heather Pearce Campbell  01:10

Hello, I am Heather Pearce Campbell, the Legal Website Warrior. I’m an attorney and legal coach based here in Seattle, Washington. Welcome to another episode of Guts, Grit and Great business. I am so excited about our guest today. I just can’t wait to see what Linda Clemens has to share with us. But Linda and I met Gosh a handful of months ago now. And I just loved her from the first minute and she is persistent, like nobody else I’ve seen. And I have I have witnessed firsthand how much she cares about the work that she does about the people that she serves. So I’m really excited to bring Linda to you today. Linda Clemens is an entrepreneur. She is CEO of sister printer ink and a global speaker through her international business. She empowers women entrepreneurs. She’s worked with the White House, FBI, Southwest Airlines, Nestle and more. She has also received the highest civilian honor in the state of Indiana. I can’t wait to hear about that one, Linda. She’s a sales and body language expert. And she is also a playwright and an author. Linda, you know already that I love you. And I’m so excited that we get to connect again today. Welcome to my podcast.

Linda Clemons  02:34

Thank you, my sister, I’m so excited to do this. This is what we do we support each other. And I love it. And what a great time for everyone in the nation, everyone in the country, and around the world to be able to come out of this situation, if you will, because we’re all in it together. But we’re going to come out better rather than better. And we do it through programs like this. So thank you so much for allowing us this.

Heather Pearce Campbell  03:01

Oh, I’m so excited. You’re here. I I agree. Part of the reason that I launched guts, grit and great business, is because a lot of the message that I want people and specifically the entrepreneurs that I serve right now, to hear and to remember is that business, entrepreneurship, I mean, really anything worth going after in life is a marathon, not a sprint. Right. And this is one more season. And it’s tougher on a lot of people than some other seasons that we’ve been through. But, you know, I really care that my listeners hear from people who have been through tough seasons before, have had experiences that have shaped them that have forced them to make really hard decisions, but that they’ve come out the other side shining. And, you know, one of the premises of this podcast is that it’s actually in moments of compression, that we get to make some of our best decisions that actually create the success that we are trying to create. And that without that compression without that pressure that we may not get there.

Linda Clemons  04:14

Absolutely, absolutely. You know what’s so interesting for me in this particular time, I remember during 911, I’m going to industry, and still I still teach in that industry in the resort industry. So when 911 hit impact everyone specifically in the travel industry, I have friends that still working in other industries, those that were in the travel industry, specifically for me resort, timeshare was deemed as one of the top sales trainers in the world in my industry. But what had happened was there were individuals losing their homes, losing their cars, because at that particular time losing their life savings because people were not traveling. They were glued to the television set just watching everything. So it it had a great impact on that industry and to recover Look, check. Okay, ripple effect you’re looking at right now look at hurts when because this has happened with the pandemic. Now hertz rent a car hurts number one number one rails, they filed bankruptcy. 

Linda Clemons  05:11

So can you imagine sometimes it takes one little thing now what did I learn from 911? It was during that time, Heather, that I said, never again and never again, is that you look at things that are going on your life, you take inventory of your relationships of your finances. And you’ll say never again, what does that mean, being in an industry where you were commissioned sales, I said to myself, never ever again, will I be in a position where I am not financially comfortable, to make sure that I have a roof over my head that so on this is taken care of. So my goal, once we got through that, I says, I’m going to work hard, I’m going to work hard. And I’m going to do what the Japanese do quite often in their education, their learning, delay gratification, where so many times Americans, we gotta have it now the best car the best CES, you got to have it now. And I said, I’m going to work hard, put money away, save, save, save, so that I can live in a rent free environment. And so my goal at that particular time, I said, I’m going to work hard to make sure that I had no mortgage or debt on my own. Now that was important to me, specifically, for those of you that are out there who are entrepreneurs, your your business, you you are living, if you will, most of the Commission’s I face, you don’t work, you don’t generate you don’t produce, nothing comes in. 

Linda Clemons  06:38

So that was one of my never ever against. So that I would have that, if you will that peace of mind. Now a lot of people are in a situation here with this pandemic, what do I do? Now is the time to think maybe I should really start taking care of my health. Maybe I should really start exercising more, maybe I should this is a good time, perhaps maybe to go back to school, even if it’s online. Heck, I’ve got plenty of time. So you have to begin to say what can you do to make yourself greater because the greater may come later, the greater may come later, and you’ve got to do the work. Now you and I can’t unless it’s a cheetah, but other than cheetah Peck where you pour the water on and it grows the plants? How often does any farmer go out and plant seeds? And then expect a crop the next day? You got to get out there and plant the seeds now. So what are the areas that you need to work on? So let’s take inventory? Is it my relationship building, if you’re a business owner, you’re an entrepreneur, if you are simply a professional, your network can impact your net worth. Absolutely. So one of the things you want to do is start building that up. You know, I do welfare checks, welfare checks, people make welfare checks, like getting the checks in the mail, no welfare checks where I’m calling my clients, calling my friends such as you check in on them to see how they’re doing. How are you how your family’s doing? How’s your business doing? What can I do to add value to your business or to your life at this particular time? So now’s the time wow, to plant the seeds. Now’s the time to grow in the areas that perhaps we’d like weaknesses or challenges in now was the time to do this. So I get excited about this.

Heather Pearce Campbell  08:19

No, I love it. I can tell and it’s but it’s a super important area. Because I think sometimes it takes a catastrophe like what we’re experiencing right now for people to pay attention to things that we’ve all let slip, right, where we’ve let different areas slip. Right. So like you said, taking inventory. I think a lot of us have the opportunity right now to reevaluate what’s working. What have I been leaving out? What have I not been paying attention to? I mean, unfortunately, I think a lot of businesses were caught off guard by COVID. And I was talking with a friend the other day who said, you know, I went along not hearing from them forever and suddenly COVID hits, and they’re like, Oh, hey, remember me? Not a good look, not a good look to not have been relationship building and then only I mean, yes, we should be making efforts. But it’s such a reminder that we should be consistently making efforts regardless of the playing field regardless of the circumstances.

Linda Clemons  09:22

Absolutely. For those that are listening of course, and I know you are increasing your your intellectual capital. So you’re constantly learning, the more you learn, the more you earn. So here’s a book like one of my favorites, Harvey Mackay and he wrote the book how to swim with the sharks without being eaten alive. But another favorite book is dig your well before you’re thirsty. Dig your well before you’re thirsty and that power of networking. So what that simply means not Wow, this is the time to plant the seeds because we don’t know how long we’re going to be in this. And if you’re if your business is the type of business That’s where you’ve got to be around people, you better develop high touch. I know this technology put a man on the moon was doing all kinds of things. We’ve got Facebook, you got zoom, technology is great. But high tech will never ever replace heights, right?

Heather Pearce Campbell  10:13

And the power, the thing that we have right now is the power of technology doesn’t have to replace that touch, it can enhance it right? I can get on and send a video message to 10 of my you know, warmest leads or my recent Khan contacts, and even just taking a minute and popping into somebody’s life and saying, Hey, how are you just checking in just touching base. I mean, it absolutely is one of the most powerful things that we can do for our businesses, even. And not even not even but especially during a downtime checking in on people. So, Linda, let’s backtrack. Talk to me a little bit about how you got started on your own entrepreneurial path. I really like to hear stories of how people choose entrepreneurship.

Linda Clemons  11:04

What my company says renewer has been incorporated for well over 22 years now. And for a small business to be around that long when it’s the first five to seven years that are critical. But I knew that I was always the entrepreneur, the entrepreneur in my spirit, because growing up early, it was interesting, we had a neighbor down the street and had a pear tree. And I would ask the neighbor, could I help clean up the yard. And if I did, I would if I can keep good pears that fall to the ground. And she said, Of course, I would take those pears and take a little butter knife back then. And I would peel the pears, roll them in cinnamon sugar, and sell them for 75 cents to the kids in the neighborhood. Oh, I knew, I knew that I was destined to be an entrepreneur that when I would all the lessons that I would learn in school, I would come home and those individuals, the little ones, but neighbors down the street that allowed me to babysit. So I had a babysitting job, I still can be I did creative things. And I charge 50 cent, I would tell my neighbors when I babysit their kids and additional 50 to 75 cent that I can teach them their ABCs in a number so I knew there was an entrepreneur in me. 

Linda Clemons  12:16

But what really told me that told me this and the validation is that being in sales, all my life, being a commissioned sales all my life, I was the number one candidate. I’m proud about this number one candy seller in my school. So I was on a mission. And of course and later on, you know, doing telemarketing sales selling timeshare. So I knew I knew that I had the gift of gab, I knew that I had to give a persuasion. And I knew that there was something in me to produce be a producer rather than a consumer, quite often Americans, the reason why we are high in credit card debt are highest because we’re more consumers than we are producers. And when you are the producer, you could begin to multiply your resources, your assets, because you’re able to make a difference in your community, the nation in the world because you’re producing, if I’m the one that’s running a company, I can employ several people that feed their families and grow a company. That’s how Ray Kroc started off with a little hamburger stand, right? It grew into something big. So every large company started with a dream. It started with a dream. So I knew from a younger age that I wanted to be my own boss. And I knew that when I did work in corporate America stealing sales, that I knew that I could do this, I could do this. Because when you are in commissioned sales, you are paid for what you produce, well, I’m thinking about can produce it on my own. I’ll get more. Loved it. But it’s not. But you and I both know, it’s not fair. Everyone, I think was Robert Kiyosaki who wrote the book, Rich Dad, Poor Dad, he said, in order for the entrepreneur, to emerge, the employee must die.

Heather Pearce Campbell  14:01

It’s true, it’s different…

Linda Clemons  14:06

Because you can’t serve both. You can’t get both entrepreneurs. So for those that are listening, that are that are entrepreneurs, intrapreneurs solopreneurs, and I say intrapreneurs that you’ve got, you’re still working that job, but you got to put in your dream on the side, there’s gonna come a time, that one of them you must serve 100%.

Heather Pearce Campbell  14:28

Absolutely. Well, and anybody that has dedicated themselves to the path of entrepreneurship knows that even with your 100% there, there’s challenges it’s hard enough, even when you’re fully there. So even if you’re half in half out, it’s gonna be way harder.

Linda Clemons  14:47

And it’s not easy and then and it’s not it’s not an eight to find. It may be you know, 6am to 12 midnight, it may be a 24/7 because you eat drink and think about Like a baby, you are birthing that baby, you’re birthing that dream. And you’ve got to nurture it, you got to take care of it. And you’ve got to work on yourself, you’ve got to work on yourself. It is critical. I heard of saying years ago, when you’re green, you grow. When you’re right, you write, stay green, keep growing, keep learning, keep developing, stay on the cutting edge, and begin to brand yourself as the go to person in your industry. That’s credible.

Heather Pearce Campbell  15:29

Absolutely. Well, and I think, for any of us who’ve been in the entrepreneurial world for a while, I mean, you recognize the difference, you recognize people that have the hunger and the thirst and the continual willingness to learn and do what it takes to keep moving, right? Suddenly, if you stop or you’re no longer interested in growing to the next level, I mean, there’s no such thing as really remaining stagnant. You’re either going, you know, with the flow of the river or against it, but there’s no really staying in one spot. So talk to me about your the point of transition between your sales career and going out on your own, like when you made that choice.

Linda Clemons  16:15

Well, I made the choice because when I was working in corporate America, I was still in sales in the resort industry well over 35 years. And so to those that are listening, I started when I was 8.

Heather Pearce Campbell  16:26

That’s right. You were too, I know.

Linda Clemons  16:30

Okay, well over 35 years, if anyone listening has ever been timeshare presentation, you know that it’s not an easy sale, because most people are going into the presentation specifically for one thing, what we did in marketing to get the free gift, so they go to get the gift. So you learn how to deal with different personalities. So for me to go into business for myself, it was easy to sell my dream and my passion, my my training sessions and my workshops and my seminars, I do a lot of keynote presentations. So it was easy to make that transition. The reason why because I know my product. 

Linda Clemons  17:07

Here’s the easiest lesson the will know your product, and know everything else, everything you possibly can about your customer. And I knew that. So if you if you only have two things in your pocket, to go on being in business or being a professional, you want to know this, you want to be the go to in your area, you want to be known as we know you say so you say a soft drink, I’ve asked you to name soft drink, ask you to name a burger, see, whatever, you’ll know, whatever that brand that dominates, you want to know everything about your industry. So that means you got to constantly be learning and stand up. But you also want to know everything about your customer. So I knew everything about my customer. Now I had an edge that some people most people probably don’t have, or they may have it or not even know it. Being in sales all my life as a sales expert now, and also a nonverbal communications expert, a body language expert. So I was able to hear as my little tagline here, hear the audible pretty much what they were. They weren’t saying even though they were talking and see the invisible even though their movie, see what they’re saying. 

Linda Clemons  18:12

So what does that mean? If I if you were to ask me as we opened up your show, and you were to ask me said, Linda, how are you doing? And I respond to you describe it to you like this, Heather? I’m just doing fine. You know, me now, you know, my energy level, you know, my baseline? So you’re gonna say to me, Linda, are you sure? See but many times we miss those cues. Those are the tonality. And the tonality is 38% of our communication. So if I say to my client or my customer, so do you like Plan A, like plan B? Or would C work for you? And then if they say, Well, you know, well, you know, and if they were excited before? Oh, I missed something along the way, I didn’t build the value. But what I see so many sales professionals, so many business owners, Heather, they’re so intent of presenting their product or service, they’ve got that down pack, and they’re missing the nonverbal cues. Whereas the client was in the man, and they were Yeah, then all of a sudden, they were taken aback in their body language moves back, they’re missing those cues. So that because we’re so busy broadcasting instead of tuning in, so by putting those two together, it allowed me great success, and then the record setting producer at every company that I worked for. And so I’m coming out there with that level of confidence, oh, I could do this and creating my own sales programs and being able to customize that come into your company, or any company because once you know the psychology of the sales process, and more importantly, the psychology of the consumer buying process. If you master those two, you’re ahead of your competition.

Heather Pearce Campbell  20:00

I love it. Did you now in getting to know the body language piece of it when you were in sales? Was it all in person? Were you over the phone? Was it combination? Did you just get it all?

Linda Clemons  20:13

Listen, I’ve done it all, from starting as a kid selling candy door to door to going on the road where my mom had to sign a release, because I was under age, because you had to be 21. I was like 17 at that time. And so I was going all over the country selling the books, the magazines, encyclopedias from doing that from being number one in the company for doing telemarketing. To then selling timeshare face did it all. And so through those years of experience, of course, and trained in analytical interviewing, and nonverbal communication, getting trained in that, being able to sit back and watch a person, you as a mom, you know, good? Well, if something’s wrong with your husband, if something’s wrong with your child, even if they say mom, okay, you know, if your husband you asked How was his day, and he does something that’s out of this routine, you know, and these were the cues that as I begin to get to know a customer, or get to know a client, begin to know them and get their baseline when I use the term baseline. That’s who they are under normal circumstance, that’s their norm, get baseline when they’re without stress, so that if you’re out of your baseline your success or what’s going on with you, you’re acting funny, what’s up, nothing, nothing, nothing, you know, you could be held hostage or something else is going on, and you’re trying to give me the signal, we miss those things. Because we’re so busy trying to sell our products and services. So I’ve mastered that I met, you know, I would go and I now my master students do that I would go with I’ll sit in courtrooms. I watch jury trials, I watch it all. And then have my students ask, can you tell who’s guilty to telling the truth of what and just listen to the words word 7%. 

Linda Clemons  21:52

Listen to the tonality that you hear the tone change. Watch the body language, oh my gosh, you can’t see half the language because they’re setting the standard witnesses setting and Stan, half the language has gone below the waist, oh my gosh, the session decreases as you go below the fog of the part from the body from the brain. That’s where your truth detector is. Oh, my gosh. So beginning to watch that, then they learn how to ask the right questions, and then watch for the moons.

Heather Pearce Campbell  22:18

Well, I don’t envy you sitting in courthouses, but it would be it would be good experience. 

Linda Clemons  22:25

So you know, when Mondays are good in the shopping mall, people want it.

Heather Pearce Campbell  22:29

I get it. And you already mentioned, I think anybody who’s been in a conversation where the other person is really not listening, they’re so intent on what they have to say that they’re really not responding to your feedback, or what you are saying. To me, that’s the equivalent of a sales conversation going wrong, right? The salesperson is just not listening, not receptive. They’re so tuned in to their own message. What else gets in the way there anything else? Or is that the primary stumbling block for people?

Linda Clemons  23:02

Well, let me add that, let me add to that, I’m going to do the Disney method, I’m going to a plus that, okay, what what’s really critical about the listing piece, I want everyone that’s listening right now, for your goal, I want you to put on your list to be a radical listener. I mean, a radical listener, that you are listening so well, if you’re in the presence of another person, or you’re doing zoom interviews, by the way, if you’re doing zoom interviews, I want you to listen so well that the person is almost taken aback, because day to day, be at their parents, with their kids with your spouse, no one’s listening to him, for someone to give them that much get undivided attention. And then watch how their body just releases the tension. Because when you are 100% present in another person’s presence, that is powerful. That is affirmation. The other thing is the biases that we have, which are very critical. So I want to talk about there’s about nine or 12, maybe maybe nine to 12 biases, I want to talk about a couple of things that could be hindering you in the sales process, or the negotiation process, or simply communicating. And by the way, for the women that are out there listening, and maybe one day when we’re doing a live presentation where they can see me and I can see them just just in case if you’re single ladies and fellows, this is for you to that there are 21 nonverbal moves that you could do. They have the person of your desire, totally. Okay, so let’s get back to the like, no, okay, tell me that. Tell me that, right. 

Linda Clemons  24:41

So let’s talk about confirmation bias. So when you have confirmation bias, what happens is let’s say you’re talking to to you’re doing a presentation, maybe three or four people in the room stakeholders are in the room. Confirmation bias is this. You are in alignment or have a bias towards the person that agrees with you train of thought, hmm. So if someone gives you an objection, well, you know, we’ve tried this before and didn’t work, you’re not listening to them and that person may be valid. That person may be the influencer. But your confirmation bias will be with those people who agree with the way you think that’s dangerous, because you’re not open to opportunities. The other bias is the halo effect bias. So in other words, if I say, I just love Heather, I love the way she does this. And she always was my favorite color green, it looks good on her, she wears blue, whatever. And she’s just so good when she helps entrepreneurs, well, I put a halo on you. And we want our consumers to do that. You want them to put a halo on your company, you want them to put a halo on you. But when you put our halo over person, it’s like Grandma, it’s like grandma send that that little brand, that little grandchild of the devil on wheels, it can tear up the entire neighborhood. But granny doesn’t see anything else. She doesn’t see a little devil in that little child, she sees her little angel because she’s got a halo effect. And what that will do, you will pick up characteristics that you admire, and you put a halo on that person. 

Linda Clemons  26:06

A psychopaths are really good at doing. Because you look at your eyes, look at your eyes and what your bodies can see. Because they come off charming con artists, they come off turning charming, and the other one is negative bias. negative bias, you may have it all your clients may have it negative biases, this is that do you know someone that no matter what, whatever meeting, whatever you’re talking about, they go into the meeting with a negative attitude, just say it’s not gonna work, I know that we come up with something new, it’s not going to work, we’re always having these meetings always negative. So even if you are someone out there listening, and you’ve been in a rough, and someone says to you, you know, you were listening to Heather’s show here, and someone says, you know, maybe we should try this new strategy, you are the one that may be thinking out, it’s not going to work, everybody’s always got some kind of strategy or tactic to do negative bias, you go into it negative, every single thing and being able to recognize those biases. So those are three that I really want you to start thinking about. And we also know about culture bias, you know, ethnic bias, we already know about that, or we’ve heard about it. But there’s another hidden ones that can be having a great impact on your success, or it can hit you.

Heather Pearce Campbell  27:20

So important. How do people become aware of those, like the person who’s may be stuck in the negative bias? How do they become aware that that’s actually their framing point, their reference point and not a problem of the other person? Right?

Linda Clemons  27:38

So let’s say the negative bias so so let’s say you have a partner, a business partner, or people that you’re working are working around, and you’ll say to them, every time I’m on the meeting, every time I’m on Zoom, we’re gonna meet in person, if an idea is presented, and I’m the one that has to play devil’s advocate, can someone stopped me or can someone bring it to my attention. So that’s one area, the other area is that you could just do the opposite, instead of being negative to say, for the next 21 days, or the next 30 days, I’m going to be I’m going to have a positive bias, I’m just going to be the positivity and everything, I’m going to find the miracle in the mess, I’m going to do that. Because the reason why you want to do it from 30 days to round 41 days, because now the brain is thinking, Okay, I think she’s serious, we’re about to do a new habit here. They normally say 21 days, but it’s actually longer. And so once you do that, then you’re going to love it. Because guess what, your outlook is going to be great, your health is going to be great, you’re going to find that you’re even more happier. And you’re going to find people want to be around you more. Because when you’re causing that negative bias, who wants to be around someone like that all the time, it brings you down. So what you make a commitment to yourself and challenge yourself. For some of you who are negative bias, it may be hard to do it for a month, we’re gonna start you off for a week, okay? Because you’re probably because you’re out there thinking, I can’t do that for a month, you’re making them already. See. So you failed already, right? So if you can challenge yourself to doing for a week, to trying to find the positive trying to find the good, and what’s going to happen, you’re going to tap into that right brain left brain and find all the great ideas are gonna be manifested in you because you’re open for possibilities. You know, Dr. Wayne Dyer in his book, The Power of the lake WinGuard. In his book power of intent, he says Be open to everything, but attached to nothing. So to get out that negative bias, I want you to start practicing, find the possibilities. So if the weatherman says it’s gonna rain today, and you’re in Seattle, like the weatherman says it’s gonna rain today. You’re gonna say, You know what, I’m grateful for two hours of sunshine.

Heather Pearce Campbell  29:42

That’s right. 

Linda Clemons  29:43

And just practice that. So that way you’re now practicing when your clients start offering those objections, you won’t react negative in that negative way. You’re going to react in a positive way, therefore, you’re more calm.

Heather Pearce Campbell  29:57

No, I love that and I think adopting self awareness and really monitoring how we’re reacting to something but also having curiosity around it right? I think people shut down curiosity. And if they’re feeling like they’re getting some amount of negativity back in a sales conversation, or like you say, they’re relating to somebody who is similar, who reinforces them, or you know, the halo bias, right, be attached to something that feels positive or relatable. And the true decision maker might be the other person in the room. Right, so important to maintain that self awareness and that curiosity. So one of the things that my mind keeps going back to that I just have to ask you about, talk to us a little bit about your experience with the White House and the FBI. I’m so curious to know what you did there.

Linda Clemons  30:53

So what I did there, I was actually a speaker at a conference for the White House with President Obama. And the same thing for the FBI and US customs department offense, I was a keynote speaker at a particular program at a separate area. So the White House was a diversity program, which was wonderful. And it was exciting that a lot of people and got quite a few clients from that. And when I speak for US customs, and the FBI, many of them are in my workshops, because they’re trying to learn nonverbal communications. So they do it differently with the FBI and the CIA, the way I do it, most people have are able to read person or when they’re moving, I can do a, a still read, and a still read is the person doesn’t have to be giving me nonverbal language, meaning moving the hands, looking at the eyes, I can ask one question, and simply by the tone and the way they answer with that 43 facial muscles, we use at least 37 of them 36 to 37, to make at least 26 different impressions. And what happens just by asking a specific question, I can get a lot of information. Now Paul Ekman talks about all of that, but it’s a different. My friend of mine said she says, Linda, I believe you can read the dead. I said yes. It’s the faces not distorted, I probably can. So I do it in a way by simply asking certain questions, and watching for those subtle nonverbal cues. And there’s a series of questions, you know, that when people are getting close to your heart, close to something that’s important to you, and our our you have that little space that you don’t want anyone to go to go to, and someone asked you bring something up, you’ll react. So again, when I was speaking at the White House, it was a great experience. It was a great diversity conference, had a chance at that time, of course, to be chivalry, President Obama, and it will give us a great opportunity for me. And since then, it’s just opened up doors to do an info.

Heather Pearce Campbell  32:44

I love that I love that so much. Well, I would be fascinated to attend because I saw a blip when we first met and you sent me to your website. The funny thing is I went and you were doing an analysis of somebody’s body language, or maybe a series of people on stage. And one of them was Tracy, my friend here from Seattle who was at your event, right? So small world, but you were spot on.

Linda Clemons  33:10

She yelled at me, oh my gosh. And so then people say, No, that’s more. And I’ve had people come up to me and say, No, you’re not doing body language. And they’ll come up to me says, No, you’re not even doing NLP. They said something even more stupid. He will ask me, Are you like a psychic? Are you a seer? And people come up to me? Can you tell me if I’m gonna get married? Am I gonna get a divorce? Am I gonna have a baby? I get this all. I get this all the time. Now what I do for young adults, for my I mentor a lot of college kids. And what I do for young adults, I have them send me their video to do a roleplay for their interviews, because we’re in a tech generation right now, to the to the point where even people are even getting I neck iPhone, but because of back problems and with their thumbs and everything. Yeah, I’ll deal with that. But this generation, so therefore, they’re communicating on Twitter, and what how many characters now was 144? How many characters is Twitter allowing? So they’re communicating that way? Now, when it’s time to go for a job interview? They’re not ready. They’re not ready. And so a lot of the students that I mentioned, they send me there, there, we do a mock interview. So I could say to them, you don’t believe it the way you’re sitting, the way you’re leaning the way you’re doing what you get put your hand, you did a shoulder shrug, you’re not really in it. You’re not sure what you want to do? Are you sure you want this job or not? You think you’re going to be dedicated? And they’re like, oh, my gosh, could you tell all that? And they don’t realize because here’s the thing, I want your listeners to understand how can you see the picture if you’re in the frame?

Heather Pearce Campbell  34:34

Yeah, that’s right.

Linda Clemons  34:36

So you’ve got to be aware of what you’re doing. And whatever you think about whatever’s on your mind comes out in the matter. So it’s fun in the way I delivered like you saw it was ironic that your friend Tracy would be in there. Right. But But what you saw is edutainment is the education part. They’re learning. Like wow, I didn’t know this and the entertainment part that allows the information too.

Heather Pearce Campbell  35:01

Well, it’s really valuable though. And I think people generally don’t pay enough attention to understanding that part of the conversation. My sister who you met at the the event where you and I met, is also in sales. She’s a salesperson, and I was telling this story on her the other day, I just I love her skills, she is just one awesome woman. But she got sent into a group of people in her work, it was a group of hospital techs, who were attached to, you know, the competitors equipment, and she’s obviously being sent into teach them about, you know, their equipment. And, you know, she met a whole room of 10, folded arms, closed off body language, close faces. But they had submitted ahead of time, she didn’t get the questions until she went to the room, but somebody had written down, like all of the questions and the comments and stuff, their concerns on this piece of paper. And, you know, she looked at a mall, and she just said, like, she looked at the paper that all these questions, and she’s looking at this room of people that are entirely closed off to her. And she just said, you guys, this is amazing. Look at all the work you have put in like, I can just tell by looking at the sheet of paper, how much you care about your patients, we are on their body, we are on the same team. And she just said I don’t care what equipment you end up going with. I’m really happy to be here answering questions. But I can just tell how much you care based on the fact that you did this work in advance before I even got here. Immediately. Body language changing, they realize that they’re not being sold. She’s just going to answer questions, provide information. You know, one of her superiors who was really concerned about the situation was there on site with her when she did this, and they sent an email around the whole company afterwards about like you, you should have seen Ashley work, you should have seen her address this room. I wish that everybody had been there for the training opportunity. But people who are paying attention and who understand other people have taken the time to understand how to relate how to put people at ease. I mean, it is the difference between a paycheck or not having a paycheck. Absolutely. Yeah. So what you do is phenomenal.

Linda Clemons  37:32

A great presence. Yeah, she’s a rockstar.

Heather Pearce Campbell  37:38

I know I love her. We had a lot of fun at that event where we met you. So talk to us about how you work with your clients. Who do you serve? How do you support them, talk to us a little bit about the work that you’re doing right now.

Linda Clemons  37:52

It’s a lot of the most the majority of my clients right now are corporate clients got a lot of great corporate clients. And it’s been fun. So they’ll bring me into the company. And I’ll do a training bit sales training or the silent language leaders and or in the digital executive coaching for the C suite level. So where I’m spending anywhere from 30 to 45 minutes of laser coaching, and career pathing, which is really, really great because I love being able to help people get on their path of purpose, if you will. So I love that. Then I do retreats, I do women’s I do women’s conferences, my company’s sister printer, and we do quarterly conferences. We have one in March, normally, one would be in June, the other September, November. So our next one because of COVID. Because COVID-19. Our next one will be a November. But it’s so excited because women entrepreneurs coming from all over the country sharing their ideas, their best practices, their success stories, their challenges. And we’re growing together, we always have surprise guests that, you know, we’re trying to get you to Indianapolis to come to this, but it is wonderful. And I love doing that. And every now and then I open up some room to do individual coaching. My capacity is challenging with that, because if I do because of my schedule, but I’ll do group coaching on a particular subject. So let’s say we’re talking about the power of persuasion. So I’ll do a group subject like that. And then maybe non verbal communication, we’ll do a zoom, so that you know, and just a fun group so everybody can pitch in and learn. And we can demonstrate. But it’s it’s been great. As a matter of fact, it’s been busy for me, I’m thinking, okay, because I’m normally traveling 15 to 20 days a month. I think I get to Chico, I get to chill a little bit. No, it’s been a lot of work. It’s good. It’s good that my clients are keeping me engaged. So I’m excited about it, again, to take up the time to be able to do wonderful interviews like this for your listening audience. I think I did radio for about 15 years.

Heather Pearce Campbell  39:50

So it’s Yeah, so this feels probably old hat to you, right. That’s super fun. So what do you want entrepreneurs to know? No, like, what do you think is one of the biggest takeaways for people that are building their own businesses that are in generally the folks that I work with? Right? They I call them mission driven, mission driven, heart centered entrepreneurs, right? It’s they’re really serving people from a place of heart from a place of wanting to transform lives. What do you think is one of the biggest takeaways that, that they should be thinking about and doing differently following this conversation?

Linda Clemons  40:29

You know, in growing your business, and if you’ve got employees, one of the things you want to remember this, look at the order, you want to put people first, that means your clients, your customers, your employees, when you put people first, then you’ll prosper. And you’ll see it in your bottom line. When it’s all about the dollar. First, something will suffer. So when you take care of your people, your people, your employees, will take care of the people, the customers, that’s always critical, always critical. And always remember that your first customer are your employees, that’s your first customer. And that’s for those of you who are looking to scale and grow your business where you have employees. The other thing that you want to remember that when you grow, give back, give back from where you got your power your source, give back to something in your community to give back. Choose someone to mentor, give back to someone in your company, to you to help grow with their college education. Constantly give back because you know, based on my faith and my belief, you can’t beat the giver, giving and when you give the law of the universe, it comes back to you. And constantly keep growing. Keep growing yourself. Stay above say stay ahead know everything about your business. I’m gonna say that, again, everything you can about your business so that you become the go to expert. And you’re building a business where your clients are referring others to you, can you imagine building a business that you don’t have to advertise, you don’t have to buy an ad, a Facebook ad, or you don’t have to do anything that you do. And I think Walt Disney just said, do what you do so well that others will go out and tell other people and pay you and pay to see you do it doing so well. And the last thing I want to say other is, is like when I work with entrepreneurs, and they come and speak and they do things for me the three things that I required. 

Linda Clemons  42:25

Number one, is for them to be to have the customer service, that Nordstrom is jealous, okay, have your customer service so supreme, that Nordstrom has got the word that you have the best customer service, have a system so tight like McDonald’s, think about it, no matter where you go anywhere around the world. No matter where you go. McDonald’s has a system, they have a system, there’s a way to make the Big Mac, and I’m dating myself, I’m aging myself, there used to be a jingle back in the day that even taught you how to make a Big Mac, you may be too young to remember habit. But that jingle was to all these special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles onions, on a sesame seed, but people were walking around singing the jingle. But it taught you how to make the Big Mac there’s a system. Okay, so number one, have the the Nordstroms of customer service in your business, get that have a system as tight as McDonald’s so that if anything breaks down, you know how to fix it. And last but not least, give the experience of Disney so that when your customers are in your presence, they go like, Whoa, that was an experience. And people hold on to the experiences you can ask grown adults, their best experience as a child and watch their face. So those are my three things, and I’m sticking to it.

Heather Pearce Campbell  43:46

I love those. I mean, we should all be striving for all of those things. And I think really the the underlying principle across all of those, and you’ve said it is people first, right. It’s what we should have been doing all along. It’s what we should be doing right now. And COVID. It’s what we should be continuing to do. So I think that’s a that’s a great place to wrap up. Well, Linda, I’m going to be sharing your contact information, I will share your website link. So for people listening, make sure that you check out the show notes, go to Legal website warrior.com forward slash podcast. Linda, let me ask you though, where do you like to connect with people online? If there’s a listener who wants to reach out or somebody who’s leading a business and they want to connect with you? What’s your favorite way to connect?

Linda Clemons  44:35

They can do it through LinkedIn, or they can do it actually through my website. I’m good on it. And by the way, speaking of that, your fortune is in your follow up and your follow through. Thanks. Great. So true. So So you respond, you know, and you’ll send me something and I’ll respond. Awesome.

Heather Pearce Campbell  44:51

Well, thank you so much for being here and talking to us. Oh my gosh, I love you. I’m so glad we got to see you today. We I will reach out again soon. But thank you listeners for being with us today check out Linda’s work and we will talk soon.

GGGB Outro  45:12

Thank you for joining us today on the Guts, Grit and Great Business podcast. We hope that we’ve added a little fuel to your tank, some coffee to your cup and pep in your step to keep you moving forward in your own great adventures. For key takeaways links to any resources mentioned in today’s show and more see the show notes which can be found at legalwebsitewarrior.com/podcast. Be sure to subscribe to the podcast and if you enjoyed today’s conversation, please give us some stars and a review on Apple podcast, Spotify or wherever you get your podcast so others will find us to keep up the great work you’re doing in the world and we’ll see you next week.