With Lynn Whitbeck, the Queen of Sales, who is a notable sales strategist, author, podcaster, speaker, and Founder and CEO of Petite2Queen. Lynn is focused on identifying and evaluating opportunities for women at work, helping them define their personal roadmap in the long–, mid–, and short-term, and teaching them leadership skills to live richer and fuller lives. She dedicates herself to share the insights learned along her journey and enable positive change for women.

Business Owners hire Lynn to ignite winning sales teams, because most are chasing down clients, stuck in a chaotic sales cycle, and lacking client retention, conversions, and profits. So, she helps her clients think about things from their client perspectives and end sales chaos with a robust strategic plan to harvest the hidden profits. The bottom line is Lynn will ignite your sales and unleash lasting profits.

Join us for this important conversation as Lynn shares her sales journey, and we discuss significant gaps that are painful or handled poorly in most businesses: referrals and follow-ups. She also talks about why you need to seed referrals in the beginning of your work with your clients and all the way through the relationship. At the end of this podcast, you will walk away with some practical tips to avoid sales chaos and strategies that can help boost your sales and profitability.

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Biggest takeaways (or quotes) you don’t want to miss:

• How important is it to follow up in sales?
• It is said that 48% of salespeople don’t follow up once… and that 92% of salespeople give up after the fourth attempt of follow up and they haven’t made a sale.
• What is a 13-step follow up process?
• The best types of referrals are when you’re having that one-on-one conversation.

“Start thinking like your client. They’re the ones who make the decision and pay you the money.”

-Lynn Whitbeck

Check out these highlights:

• 05:53 Lynn shares how she started in sales.
• 14:44 Some reasons why salespeople fail to follow up.
• 25:17 What’s a key thing about most people?
• 32:50 Lynn shares some of the big potholes that people step into when trying to follow up.
• 43:05 What usually causes chaos in sales systems?
• 50:15 The best time to ask for referrals.

How to get in touch with Lynn:

On social media:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lynnwhitbeck

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/petite2queen/

Instagram: http://www.instagram.com/petite2queen/

Twitter: http://twitter.com/petite2queen/

YouTube: http://p2q.link/youtube

Learn more about Lynn, by visiting her website here.

Special gift for listeners: A free workshop is being offered every six weeks, please make sure to follow her on LinkedIn so you can be notified.

Imperfect Show Notes

We are happy to offer these imperfect show notes to make this podcast more accessible to those who are hearing impaired or those who prefer reading over listening. While we would love to offer more polished show notes, we are currently offering an automated transcription (which likely includes errors, but hopefully will still deliver great value), below.

GGGB Intro  00:00

Here’s what you get on today’s episode of Guts, Grit and Great Business®…

Lynn Whitbeck  00:05

There’s a whole bunch of different ways to get to Spokane from Seattle once again, using the Washington State analogy. And I know because I’ve taken a whole bunch of them, the road less traveled, you know, all kinds of different ways, you get to see all kinds of different things, right. But the whole point is that you can do this and be implementing and making and process improvements and seeing those results. And then you just keep doing that incrementally adding on. It’s always in that first thing is sort of, you know, in that moment of what is the most pressing client thinking and understanding your client thinking has to be a core part? And then what is like an opportunity that’s right here or a big gap that you’re aware of? And then you are a challenge that you need to address? What is it that you know, first thing the low hanging fruit that needs to be addressed?

GGGB Intro  00:59

The adventure of entrepreneurship and building a life and business you love, preferably at the same time is not for the faint of heart. That’s why Heather Pearce Campbell is bringing you a dose of guts, grit and great business stories that will inspire and motivate you to create what you want in your business and life. Welcome to the Guts, Grit and Great Business® podcast where endurance is required. Now, here’s your host, The Legal Website Warrior®, Heather Pearce Campbell.

Heather Pearce Campbell  01:31

Alrighty, welcome. I am Heather Pearce Campbell, The Legal Website Warrior®. I’m an attorney and legal coach based here in Seattle, Washington, serving online information entrepreneurs throughout the US and the world. Welcome to another episode of Guts, Grit and Great Business®. We are going to have a super fun conversation today. On especially one particular point that is a major problem in most businesses. So I’m super excited to introduce Lynn Whitbeck. Welcome, Lynn.

Lynn Whitbeck  02:05

Heather, it’s so great to be here. Thank you for having me. 

Heather Pearce Campbell  02:08

Yes. So great to see you again. It’s so funny because when I first connect with people, and then we actually get around to the call, like, often many months have passed, and it’s like I want to do all this catching up, which we will do on the conversation today. So great to have you back. For those of you that don’t know Lynn Whitbeck, she’s the Queen of Sales. Business Owners hire Lynn to ignite winning sales teams, because most are chasing down clients, stuck in a chaotic sales cycle, and lacking client retention, conversions, and profits. So, she helps transform thinking to the client’s perspective, end sales chaos with a robust strategic plan to harvest the hidden profits. Bottomline, Lynn will ignite your sales and unleash lasting profits. Lynn’s core value is to be of service. It’s what drives her. Every morning she wakes up and says, “there are so many things I get to do today.” Lynn is the Founder and CEO of Petite2Queen, and you may have seen Lynn in USA Today, HuffPost, Chicago Tribune, and more! When she is not working with clients, Lynn loves visiting National Parks, cooking, and playing Pokémon Go. Well, if you’re into cooking, you can come to our house, Lynn. That one is one that I want to be on my list and is definitely not currently on my list. Pokémon Go is on the list for my son Aiden, who is just turned 10. He’s been obsessed with Pokémon for years now. And of course has the little sister who’s four, also very interested in Pokémon.

Lynn Whitbeck  03:50

Yeah, it’s a lot of fun. And you know, in Seattle, they’ve got the big event coming up in two weeks, actually now at this point a week and a half where you can buy tickets to get into the Seattle Center area where it’s just they’ve literally rented the whole thing. And it’s just Pokémon

Heather Pearce Campbell  04:06

Pokémon heaven. That’s amazing.

Lynn Whitbeck  04:09

So as far as like cough, cough, but my daughter and I are planning to go and we’re pretty excited about it. So I mean, you know, if you live in that world.

Heather Pearce Campbell  04:18

Right. It is whole own world. The funny thing is, you know, not funny, so COVID hit that part is not funny, but having to explore all of these ways to support kids online, right, like the first summer where we were looking at summer camps. I ended up putting Aidan into a couple of online client camps including Pokémon, Minecraft, right? Some of those that he was learning at the time. And it was like a whole other words I had like I was such a bad mom at the time because I didn’t realize I had to like download and install all this software. And anyways, folks, it’s a whole thing if you don’t know about the world It is, I mean, the Pokémon world, it is a whole thing. Well, Lynn, I’m super excited to have you here today. I love what we are about to talk about. And I know, you know, we chatted before about this super important, you know, I’ll get right to the point like we’re here to talk about sales. Also what causes chaos in a business, and our tremendous lack of follow up right before you and I went live, we were just sharing experiences of having to go car shopping, and I was sharing, like, what a tremendous lack of follow up did for that experience and what I did after that, so anyways, Lynn, I’d love for you to share, why sales? Why is sales the thing for you? How did you get your start in sales? What is it about sales that you love, share with us a little bit about your background?

Lynn Whitbeck  05:53

I started in sales as a Girl Scout selling cookies, you know, and I absolutely, first of all, they’re great cookies. So it’s a wonderful product that you can get behind and be passionate about. And we had this coveted cookie badge that you had to sell so many cookies to get this cookie badge. And I hold my friend around who was probably one of the most introverted shy individuals. But we made a great team, I was the one out there meeting and greeting and grabbing them. And she was the one giving them the cookies and taking the money. And we were the only two girls. And you know that that whole like sort of Seattle area that year who got that coveted cookie badge. So that’s like in a place of prominence, I still have my Girl Scout sash. So I you know, that’s how I sort of got started. But sales for me was always just an absolute natural fit. Because I do I love to help people, I love to be of service. And the best thing about sales is that not only do I help my clients, but in turn, they’re helping their clients. They’re helping the businesses that they work with, or the individuals that they work with the communities that they work with, and and I create a wave, they add to that wave and those people then get to make that wave even bigger. And so it goes from a ripple into a wave. And that’s really tremendous when you can have that kind of impact. And so many when you have a product or service that you truly believe in and you’re passionate about. It’s one of the best things in the world. Because you are creating, making a difference.

Heather Pearce Campbell  07:32

Yeah, absolutely. Well, it’s, you know, it’s so interesting to think about everything that goes into the sales process, right, what comes before what comes after? Why is it that we all fall down so much on the follow up?

Lynn Whitbeck  07:51

Oh, I think we need to back it up a little bit. Because the first thing that happens is that many companies haven’t really thought through their whole sales strategy. And when you start with that, and you actually build out your sales strategy, then it’s a lot easier to do your follow up, because that’s part of your sales strategy. When you start it’s really thinking like the client, you know, what does the client want need? Or lack? You know, why does it matter to them? What area of concern? Is it addressing? What problem is it solving? You know, you know, what’s in it for them? And ultimately, so they can what? So when we were talking about the car, you had an older car that was becoming unreliable? So you needed a reliable vehicle, but you needed a vehicle for family and for adventuring, you know, so as you get into it, you know what you want need or lack? Why does it matter to you? And why do certain car features matter to you? And then so you can get the whole family and the dogs and everybody in there and then go out go up to you know, let’s say you’re gonna go up Highway 20, right, and you’re gonna go and check in at, at Lake Ross, you know, whatever it happens to be or go up to Diablo. And so there are all kinds of since we’re both Washington natives, that for those of you haven’t been used it at the beautiful state of Washington, and the United States anyway. But that’s the thing, you know, you sort of get to that so you can, because that’s really what you’re purchasing as you’re purchasing the so you can’t, right, right. And so when you start with that philosophy, and that is going to help you not only help you but it’s it’s absolutely critical that you think like the client and also think like the client throughout the client journey, because what they’re thinking changes from that initial connection to the spark, whatever that is to them cultivating the relationship to guiding them to a decision, where they’re at when you’re you’re making that decision to buy that car is different from when you first started looking right, a whole bunch of things have gone on. And so you need to have that in consideration and have to include that. And then of course, as they’ve become the client, and you’re nurturing that relationship, so that you can get warm referrals for people to tell for you to tell people what a great experience that you had at the car dealership who you worked with, because that in turn is going to then come back around and feed the sales process is going to shorten that sales cycle. Because those warm referrals, are they make decisions faster, because they already have a basis of understanding who you are, right? I mean, so this is, so we’re going full circle here.

Heather Pearce Campbell  10:35

But you’re given us a great luck, because even when you said the word sales strategy, I was like, huh, I bet a lot of people get that piece wrong, what is a sales strategy? What all because, right, then you’re getting two referrals, you talked about thinking like the client, designing a system that really works from the client perspective, you know, and then all the way to the point of once they’re enrolled, you know, nurturing that so that you can also collect warm referrals, like take great care of the client that you’ve created, but also collect warm referrals. And I think some people think, Well, isn’t that a different strategy? That’s a referral strategy. Right? And I’m hearing you say that that’s part of the sales strategy.

Lynn Whitbeck  11:16

Yeah, yeah, it absolutely is. And in fact, with referrals, you need to be seeding referrals at the beginning, and all the way through the relationship, so that by the time that you’ve earned the right, to ask for the referral, they’re ready and willing, they want to share this experience with someone else. And you’ve been seeding it all the way along, it’s not like it’s a surprise. And you make it easy for them, you know, and then you recognize and reward them for the referral that they’ve provided. So that because once someone does become a referral, they’re four times more likely to refer again, yeah, and someone who’s been referred to you is also far more likely to refer somebody new to you as well. So it’s just us, you know, it just really creates this beautiful network. And to do that, though, you have to have thought through your strategy. And that also includes that follow up piece that you talked about, if you don’t know what the client is thinking, how are you going to be able to deliver the value that they need, so that you can cultivate the relationship to guide them to a decision, right, and then even when they’ve made the decision, there’s still follow up for all the whether it’s contracts to be signed, negotiation that has to occur, implementation, onboarding, the delivery of the vehicle, follow up for that first appointment, when the car comes back in that they do a full points, checkup, whatever it happens to be, you know, that is still part of the client journey and follow up is part of your job in sales.

Heather Pearce Campbell  12:50

Different kinds of follow up, right? So you said the word follow up. And it’s like, looking at the example we were talking about where you have a lead, right? How many people are falling, falling down on the follow up just in regards to leads, right? Rather than nurturing the leads they have and doing adequate follow up, instead pivoting and looking at other leads, how to other bring new leads in the door. And then once you’ve done whatever the initial service, product delivery, whatever it is, how many people forget, they have eliciting their folks that they’ve already served, the ones that they could follow up with? Learn more about that particular journey or client and, you know, serve them in some other way. I just remember and the reason I’m so caught up on this issue of follow up is because I remember hearing really awful statistic about the percentage of businesses that do not do this well, and how much business they’re losing. By ignoring this one point.

Lynn Whitbeck  13:52

Yeah, no, I mean, we talked about that briefly before the show. But the statistics are really quite shocking that 48% of salespeople don’t follow up once. It’s like one and a two. Yeah, so they’ll meet somebody at a conference or at a trade show, they’ll meet them at a car dealership, they’ll, you know, they actually have a phone call meeting, whatever it happens to be, and they never follow up. I mean, you know. 

Heather Pearce Campbell  14:16

And is this just having a lack of a system? Is it a product of time? What do you think and you’re…

Lynn Whitbeck  14:23

There’s so many different reasons about why people fail to follow up now one that could get busy with other things. I mean, I think I can truthfully say that I’m pretty good at follow up and yet, I still suck because I’ll get busy with existing clients and hot projects and people who are literally throwing money at me, so I need to take care of them. So there are more than one side to that but another piece is that some people don’t hate the rejection. You know, salespeople in general, want to feel the love you know, they want to be to it It’s just sort of this piece that it’s not for everyone, but it is a common trait. And so there’s going to be that rejection, right? You have to be resilient. You have to be able to get back up. You also in sales, you get ghosted, where people don’t respond. And really, it’s because they’re busy. They’re really, really busy. But there’s also another pieces, they don’t know what to give them. Or they’re doing something like, Oh, Hi, Heather. This is Lynn. I’m calling from the Ford dealership. And well, I just thought I’d check in and see you know, if you’re ready to come in and take another look at that, that Ford. Yeah. Okay. So first of all, you you are like already, like, Oh, my, I just went off this voicemail, let alone if you know, because it’s usually voicemail Come on. And then at the end, she goes, then they go on, by the way, this is live in Florida. And you’re going like, what the heck, alright, they just gave that phone number and who they are so fast that I will have to listen to this 10 times, I still won’t get it. You are so dead to me. Okay, so just, you know. So what you need to do is of course you believe with that follow up, you have to know that what is that? What is it that you’re looking for? And so it could be that you’re following up, but that you’ve just got this new Road and Track report that came in about the off road vehicle capabilities when you’re taking it camping? As because if they’ve done any kind of work when they talk to you and ask questions. And that you could provide that you could also say, oh, and I don’t know, if you’re about you know, I’m so excited about this, I’m going to tell you about this. And then oh, by the way, this is Lynn, Lynn went back with the Ford dealer. And then you leave it so you slow your cadence down, you go, this is Lynn. And then you immediately slow way down, because 90% of people have some form of dyslexia. So then you slow it way down as to who it is. 

Heather Pearce Campbell  16:57

It’s usually 90%. 

Lynn Whitbeck  16:59

Yeah, yeah. And it’s often it’s so mild, that it doesn’t impact a lot of things, but it’s there. And so when you’re aware of that, I mean, that’s the thing, you want them to get your digits again, or who you are hurt, and you slow it down, so they can, but then it’s like you do this triumphant triangles, I’m going to put this all on an email for you. So that you have it, right. And you basically have everything in an email, you’re almost reading from the email, but please don’t read like you’re reading a script. You know, but you already know what that is, you send it on to them. Right. And so then you click Send, and then three days later, three business days later, it depends on every business, the cadence will be different, you will follow up again. And so there, you can leave a message with them. If you’ve connected with them on LinkedIn or on Facebook, or you’ve got their message to send them a text message, you do a different type of communication. So you hit them three different ways. Because people will pick up on that now even if they still ghost you. I want everybody to remember it’s probably because they’re busy, busy, busy, busy. So then it’s like, well, what’s next? You know, so when you’ve done the strategy, and you figured it out? So these are the types of buyers for this vehicle, right? In this case, we’ve been talking about cars, and then what are the kinds of assets that we could deliver to them the value that can be delivered? So another great thing is that our Do you know that we have, you know, a local dealer explorer club, that we go on day trips, you know, and our next day trip is on this, if you’d like to join in and see what it’s all about. You know, we all are welcome, whether you’ve purchased from us or not, I mean, that’s the type of thing that people have this is this fun outing, right. And I’m going to send an email with all the details so that you can register, you know, and so when we used to have a, when my husband was alive, we had a big boat. And so the boat dealership did these boat trips, and they did them multiple times a year. And so you just all sort of convene at one spot, and then you all sort of motor together this little cavalcade of boats, right. And so but that’s like a different way to add value, adding value with community, you’re being able to meet new people. And you’re also able, I mean, so there’s all kinds of ways I want everyone to think outside of the box of your product or service. There’s many different ways that you can deliver an add value. But you’ve got to have that, know what the client is thinking and why it matters to them, and then plan it in the cadence and where it gets the best fit because that’s also a great thing to add on, in this case of a car at the end of doing these types of activities.

Heather Pearce Campbell  19:44

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Heather Pearce Campbell  22:23

Real, it’s so true. And you know the other thing that comes to mind when you mentioned all these ways you can add value, which is you know, also really just about building relationships, right? If you like you can call it add value. It’s really about showing, demonstrating that you’ve paid attention to their wants to their needs, what they told you and letting them know that matters to you. And you can help them right I think have to go back to this recent example. And I was telling Lynn before the calling, I haven’t had to car shop in like 20 years, you know, and I got a Volvo. PS, I love Volvos. But it’s done a great job. And we’re at a point where it’s just not a great family car anymore. Because it’s not that reliable, we’ve worn it right out and or their car doesn’t have four wheel drive. So we ended up at a car dealership where we spent several hours with them. If they were paying attention, right, they would have learned, we have not only one car to replace, but to in our household in the very near future. That’s that’s over, you know, $100,000 in sales, given the types of vehicles we’re looking at, they would have learned that we are a family that love the outdoors, spend lots of time in nature, there’s reasons why we need a four wheel drive vehicle, right, all of this stuff. And yet. And the other thing that I was about to say, though, is that even if the purchase is not going to be made tomorrow, the reality is they lost my business. Because they did not follow up. They did not demonstrate that whether my business was coming for them tomorrow next month or next year, that they’re good at follow up, right. So they didn’t respond to phone calls, they didn’t I submitted you know, some information online, I did not get a follow up call or email nothing, three or four days later. And even though we’re not buying a car, because the way that car production is happening right now is unless you’re going to walk off the lot with it, which is not for us. You know, we’re looking for something fairly specific. It’s just not available, you have to order it and then wait some time, right. But we ended up going to another dealership to test drive the version of the vehicle that we want and then just based on a pure level of responsiveness, you know, emails within the hour, you know, very, very responsible multiple emails throughout the day. Here’s the information, here’s how we can help. Even the way that he answered questions on the lot. I was like, Oh, this, this dealership clearly knows how to follow up. They care about our business, right? They’re in another city. And yet that’s who we’re going to be competing with. So You know, the it’s just a really clear example of the importance of follow up. And regardless of when that business could be coming your way, if you fall down on the follow up, you’ve just lost a sale, you know, in many instances?

Lynn Whitbeck  25:16

Oh, absolutely. And the key thing about most people, it’s like, a significant portion, usually at least 80% are not ready to make a decision that moment or that day, right. And so, and depending on the type of sales, certainly, like in a corporate sales environment, that always takes longer, right. So when you’re looking at sales in that process, the follow up, it is about building those relationships. I mean, it is all about that human to human connection. And, you know, thinking that through and so real great tip and shortcut for the audience, if you’re looking at how to put together materials, for follow up, is to think about your the top 10 pain points, the top 10 questions that you get, and the top 10 objections. Okay? And then look at those and then take, what are the top three, you know, prioritize them? And once again, not from your perspective, all right, you’ve got to get out of your own thinking, think like the client from their perspective. And there’s a number of ways that you can, that can help you quickly evaluate that and see if you’re on track within, you know, a couple of days or a couple of weeks. But once you have that, you can take those top three, do we have materials that answer these? Have we already done something? Is there something we can refine or tweak, you know, and then that becomes part of your follow up cadence. And if you if you’re missing that, if that’s the gap, then you create something. And I want to remind people that you don’t just because you create one piece of content, and you have one piece of content, I want you to once again, you can repurpose that content. So this is sort of like here I am guesting on a podcast. But one of the things I provide as I have a masterclass on how to leverage gas podcasting to grow your business. Now, that started out as a summit presentation. So I did a presentation on a summit. I took that and I turned that into a den i right after that I got a request for an article. And I did an article on that. Well, then I took that article, and I repurpose the article again for our own website. Right. Then I created a literally a process map of how to do it, right. And then from there, I mean, I’m just I literally went on other podcasts talking about this, right. And then I created the masterclass. And then so as you can see, there’s just it just and then now there’s like a quick checklist. So it just goes on. And the thing is people digest and absorb content in different ways. And so some people made the article may be great. Other people want a single one sheet checklist, you know, they want that quick hit. And a lead magnet should always include something that is that piece that can be digested in three to five minutes. But then some people want to spend more time and they want to go through although my masterclasses like 20 minutes, so it’s not super long. But you know, but it’s also divided into four videos. So that’s another thing is that some people will sit through a longer bite, but smaller bites are more effective. Yeah. And so as you go through those things, just, you know, it’s different types of content and all of those things, literally, you could create video snippets that then can become something that you put into a sequence that goes out, you can take that masterclass. That’s less than an hour total time, I think it’s less than 20 minutes. But you could literally divide it up into even smaller snippets. And you could post on social every day, almost like a challenge. So you know, that’s the thing, you can repurpose content and you you think, oh, somebody will know that I’ve already used that they’ll see it before. Not always. And sometimes the different format is better for them. And so that’s why in marketing, you’ll reuse the same message over and over again so that people get used to it. All right, it’s the same thing. That’s why you keep following up. Because what’s really a killer is that 92% of sales people give up after the fourth attempt a follow up and they haven’t made a sale. And yet, most sales occur after the fifth follow up. And depending on the type of industry you’re in, that could be seven, it could be 12, it could be 13. Whatever it is, I always recommend clients create a 13 step follow up process that baker’s doesn’t before they end. These are personalized follow ups that are still templated that they’ve planned out. That can be easily cleaned, quickly delivered in five minutes or less by the salesperson, and yet feel authentic and genuine and human to human. And after 13, well, then you can put them into a drip campaign. Okay, and you know, but before that, and then if they warm up and they do the outreach, then you know, because some people, sometimes it takes a while. Yeah, and some businesses, people have to be in the funnel for about a year to really generate like, well, they really know what they’re talking about. I really like what they’re doing. 

Heather Pearce Campbell  30:30

Right. They have to really be in your orbit, I’ve noticed the same thing, like so many introductions that I mean, that I know, because I can take an outward look at their business and tell like that, like they don’t have what they need when it comes to legal stuff. And so I know right away, can I help this person but we what they don’t know is, you know, they they don’t yet have, they don’t know who I am, right? They’re not yet comfortable. Being in the conversation, maybe around legal services, it just takes some time. But ultimately, if you stay in orbit with that person and have some regular contact, it is very much like I love and I hope people are writing down notes on that 13 Step follow up system, just even as a reminder about how, how much consistency matters, even though you said each step could be a five minute step. Right? So collectively, that’s not that much. Yeah, ’cause I want you…

Lynn Whitbeck  31:26

Once again, think like the client, what are you actually telling them, when you do that, you’re letting them know what’s going to be like to work with you, you know that you’re going to be you’re going to follow up, that you’re going to be consistent, that you’re going to be credible, that you’re going to be capable, I mean, all these things are being relayed to them. And so that’s another piece that’s very important, as you’re going through this, even when you’re going through a rapid, you know, follow up process, because it doesn’t have to be spread out over a year, right? It can be spread out over a month or two months, at every business, your cadence will be unique for your business. And it there’s a little bit of part about individuals who how much or little they want to email or phone or the cadence, but you know, honestly reaching out once a week or every other week, you know, that is absolutely when you are delivering value. And you’re not, you’re not it’s really you’re giving, giving giving, then you’re gonna get a response.

Heather Pearce Campbell  32:29

I love that, for folks that are sitting down and going, gosh, maybe I don’t really have a comprehensive sales strategy. Right? We’ve got pieces of it, components of it, but like, clearly, there’s some things that are missing. Where do you have people look? Or what are the big potholes? I think follow up is one of them. But what are the big potholes that people step into?

Lynn Whitbeck  32:50

Well, the first one is really client thinking many, many clients have not truly thought through the process from their clients perspective. And they haven’t taken the time to build it because that is your rock foundation. If you’re thinking about instead of a car or a house, a house sits on a fount stone foundation or a cement foundation. And that foundation also has to have time to cure right before you plop the house on top. So one of the key things is understanding that client thinking going in, because that’s going to make sure that you’re attracting the right people you’re connecting to them, it’s going to shorten your sales cycle. And when you and that, in turn lowers your cost of acquisition, client acquisition and increases your profits. So I mean, it’s just a win win, win win. But it’s sort of like investing that bit of time, just like in legal, if you don’t invest the time to put these things in place. Well, there is a pretty big downside on that that can come back and hit you hard. So it’s and it doesn’t need to be onerous or hard. But it’s just, you know, it’s like anything else when you plan and you put that in place, everything else flows so much easier. And the more smoothly.

Heather Pearce Campbell  34:02

Well in this piece about really knowing your clients speaking to them so that they identify themselves in your services, right. So one small change that I made, that’s been a big difference. And I didn’t really think about it for a long time. But when I was having conversations with potential clients, I would start to say, if you were in this revenue range, here’s what I’ve learned, right? These are the issues that you’re facing. This is typically where you are at on your, you know, your path to scaling. Now, if you’re in this revenue range, right, here’s some other things plus the solutions for those things. And people then quickly identify like, oh, yeah, that’s me. And it has changed because there’s a there’s a program that I launched, it’s a $25,000 program, doing the same stuff I’ve always done. I’ve just put it into a structure. But when I when I clearly identify the client like people in that are a fit for this program or doing XYZ they’re in this room. revenue range. These are the issues. That conversation is just as fast and just as easy as putting somebody into a $1,500 solution. Right. Yeah, it is. It’s so important that I think we talk to clients in a way that allows them to identify themselves as like, Yeah, that’s right, that this is me, this sounds like the solution that I need, right? Sounds like it will fix this specific problems that I’m facing. 

Lynn Whitbeck  35:27

Right? Absolutely. Absolutely. 

Heather Pearce Campbell  35:29

Now, one thing you mentioned, that really piqued my interest, because it was not on the list, but now I’m thinking, Oh, my gosh, people heard that, and they’re gonna be freaking out. Like, let’s talk about referrals. Right? So sales strategy, and I just want to be respectful of time, because I’m sure we could go, you know, much deeper into sales strategy, right, thinking like your client ,designing a system that has at least 13 steps in the follow up.

Lynn Whitbeck  35:59

Combination of outreach follow up. Yeah. 

Heather Pearce Campbell  36:01

Yeah, exactly. Right. But just understanding and I also love that you say it’s gonna look different for every business. I think a lot of people think like, just give me the system, and especially if I can automate it, right. But what I’m hearing you say is no needs to be specific. It needs to be personal, it needs to be really tailored to your client, and your business. might look different for everybody.

Lynn Whitbeck  36:24

Yeah, it that’s what gives you a competitive edge. Yeah. So that people know you’re speaking to them, and you’re connecting with them on that level. People today are smart. They know when they’re in a drip campaign.

Heather Pearce Campbell  36:34

Totally. Oh, yeah. And super human knows, and Gmail knows.

Lynn Whitbeck  36:38

Yeah. And it’s just, you know, all you’re doing is taking a beautiful plate of spaghetti. And you’re just taking and throwing it against the wall and see if anything sticks, okay. I personally would rather be served that beautiful plate of spaghetti with some garlic bread and some asparagus and a beautiful Caesar salad on the side.

Heather Pearce Campbell  36:58

So folks, I hope you just paid attention to that how many people are dropping folks into a drip campaign thinking, this is sufficient. And, you know, one of the things I’ve done in my business that really has made a world of difference, both from efficiency, but also, to achieve that personal outreach is just create templates inside of Gmail. And what it does is allow me to kind of create the core of the message, but then I can add all the personal details of like, it was so great to talk to you, you know, early this week, you know, and we mentioned this specifically, this specifically, here’s some information that might help you in your decision making right or whatever. But being able to really have it be a personal touch, I think makes a complete world of difference.

Lynn Whitbeck  37:44

Templates are huge. And there’s so many different ways that you can do those, you can even template ties, you know, like videos, where it’s the video has been recorded, but you’re actually using a tool like send spark to customize the header and the footer. So it’s coming, it looks like it’s for them, but it’s a video that you’ve pulled from a video library. And so, so that’s why I said you can do these things where it takes a salesperson five minutes, you know, to get it out there. But it’s just this takes the planning so that it’s available, and you’re making your sales team so much more effective. And you’re quickening your sales cycle and increasing the profit as a result, because you’re lowering your cost of client acquisition, and seeding those referrals in the process.

Heather Pearce Campbell  38:31

Oh, no, it’s exactly right. I mean, it’s like, it’s so interesting, because when you think about examples in your own business of when the process has done right for you like that shortening the sales cycle is huge, right? And part of that does take planning about when things are going to happen so that you’re doing that follow up quickly. And, and when it doesn’t happen in that order. Like it’s so noticeable or in the timeframe, right, like I have a specific and this is a little bit different than a sales cycle. But similar because truthfully, this service is part of my sales cycle. I actually have a front end service, that’s a business risk assessment. And it leads to divulging all the other problems and the business right so it’s one of the initial steps to service but also part of truthfully the comprehensive sales cycle. And usually, I’m scheduling the follow up call within about a week of the first meeting. I had one client that was really particularly difficult to get scheduled so that didn’t happen for like six weeks not because of my schedule because of hers. But what did she do once we finally got on that second call, complained about how much time had passed between the freshers when I you know, I just sat there thinking oh my gosh, isn’t this ironic, right i It made me tighten up my own policies about like when I scheduled the first one, we have to automatically schedule the second one and if they’re not occurring within a week each other, we need to reschedule. Right? It’s the timing is super important. Another reason, examples, when I did it right with another client completed everything in a really timely manner got the summary over to him. Literally, I sent the summary last night. And this morning, I get an email back. That all sounds great. Yes, let’s please proceed. This is to my $25,000 program, right? That’s it single email line. Yes, let’s please proceed. Tell me how right? So it that that shortened sales cycle saves so much time and energy and additional follow up? Right? It’s, it really makes a difference, especially in a small business where you may not have a big team to do all that stuff for you.

Lynn Whitbeck  40:47

Yeah, no, I mean, that’s a key thing is that when you’re doing that you can be implementing this on the fly, so that you are making continuous process improvements. And before you know it, you’ve got things built out. But you actually started somewhere.

Heather Pearce Campbell  41:01

Oh, I love that implementing on the fly. Yeah, yes. The implementing on the fly, though. I think people need to hear that piece because they think like, oh, well, maybe I can’t start if I don’t have this big system all built out and perfected. And you’re saying No, do it and iterate along the way create the assets along the way, create the follow up along the way? And then pretty soon, you’ve done that a few times. And you do have a system?

Lynn Whitbeck  41:26

Yeah. And then you get a one thing done. And then you start on the next right. I mean, it’s, you know, this is not a linear line. I want people to think about it more as lessons, we’ve been talking about cars, you got a road map with all kinds of roads and all kinds of routes to get there. There’s a whole bunch of different ways to get to Spokane, from Seattle, once again, using the Washington State analogy. And I know because I’ve taken a whole bunch of them the road less traveled, you know, all kinds of different ways, you get to see all kinds of different things, right. But the whole point is that your you can do this and be implementing and making and process improvements and seeing those results. And then you just keep doing that incrementally adding on. And so it’s always in that first thing is sort of, you know, in that moment of what is the most pressing client thinking and understanding your client thinking has to be a core part. And then what is like an opportunity that’s right here or a big gap that you’re aware of? And then you are a challenge that you need to address. What is it that you know, first thing, the low hanging fruit that needs to be addressed?

Heather Pearce Campbell  42:35

Yeah. So I mean, there’s so much good stuff there. So a couple of burning questions that I still have. And I’m hoping even if you can just shed some insights on like one or two key points that will really help our listeners. One, I want to get to the issue of chaos, what causes chaos in and let’s specifically focus on small businesses, right, small businesses who are traveling, trying to really dial in their sales, their sales systems talk to us a little bit about chaos.

Lynn Whitbeck  43:05

Well, in many small businesses, certainly there’s been the founder magic getting started and doing the sales. And then as they brought in a sales team, often they’re almost like little mini entrepreneurs, and they’re doing their own thing. And there really isn’t this cross communication, because there’s also a competitive nature to the different salespeople and what they’re trying to achieve. And so the first thing is, is that, you know, Tom doesn’t know what Harriet’s doing and Harriet may have found a really good solution for something. And Tom may know how to do something else, but they’re not really, you know, working as a team or collaborating. And so that occurs. Also, you know, there’s a side of where the small business as you get people, even in a small business, sort of siloed and they don’t recognize how they all touch the client, because counting touches the client by sending them invoices following up on payment, obviously, shipping, you know, and how the something is packaged or or and or delivered, if they’re delivering it with their own a local delivery service or their own truck, etc. Or how something has been manufactured. All of these things, you know, that client experience and how they’re touching the client, almost everyone in a facility, the janitor impacts the client experience if they come into the facility, and they use the restroom, you know, come on. So how that is impacting the client, and really having everyone and every business should be client focused because they drive your business, alright? They drive the decisions, they drive the business, but in a small business, this is more vital than ever. And I would say it’s vital no matter what size of organization you have, but you know, in a small business, really getting everybody on board with thinking like the client and the client experience and the journey that they’ll have as they work with them, and how important that is, and that they’re all in the same team to deliver that client delight, that really makes a difference. And that will have an impact for the whole organization. When they don’t think of it as like, Well, I’m just manufacturing this thing that I’m going to pass over to, to this department to do the finishing. Well, no, I mean, this is going to be going into someone’s I mean, their home or, you know, whatever it happens to be if they’re a manufacturer, or if it’s a service that they’re delivering whatever it happens to be. But you need to get that is a mindset piece that is really critical, that the entire organization from top down participating, to serve to serve the client, I mean, why they’re, what they’re doing, what they’re doing, and the impact that they’re having. I mean, some people may think, Well, I’m just manufacturing this widget, this car part? Well, no, this car part actually makes the car safer. You’re actually helping a family be safe on the road. Alright, what is the impact that you’re actually delivering? And so those are things that when, and then you have that in, you know, like, how can we, you know, how does this impact the client? How can this be better if something goes wrong? It’s like, well, what’s that mean? I know, we all talk about the root cause. But how is it also impacting the client, that this went sideways?

Heather Pearce Campbell  46:25

Well, and you know, when you talk about this top down approach of getting the messaging right from the top and rolling your employees and your support staff in the mission of the company, and rolling them into not only observing but participating in the client experience, I think it just you, you end up having a team that so much more committed, because they are part of the whole, they’re not siloed, they’re not just, you know, it reminds me of a story in my husband’s business. He’s an employee for a local business here in Seattle. And through COVID, I think a lot of people got siloed. They, they weren’t showing up to in person stuff. They were working on hours there. You know, I think a lot of people and managers had to shift styles on how they manage people. And if they were just assuming somebody had it down or had it covered. You know, there was one employee, in particular in my husband’s department that was fairly problematic. And, you know, they’ve had to get him back in line. But it was like, once he understood, kind of the management structure, the I think it was really the team feeling like, oh, yeah, there are other people that have eyeballs on my work that care about what I do. You know, we were just talking recently about his work has totally turned around, he’s come up very proactively with ideas for how you can do this better. And here, I actually created this SOP for this particular procedure that we didn’t have, you know, it really changes the way people show up in your business.

Lynn Whitbeck  47:59

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Because they’re part of something bigger. Yes.

Heather Pearce Campbell  48:03

Yeah. It’s hugely critical. So I love that. And the other thing that I still want to touch on, because I’m sure in people’s mind, they’re like, oh, my gosh, please tell me more about referrals and how you build some of these really, you know, key that can be small, but I’m sure they’re very key parts of the conversation with the client into the sale system do want to talk for a minute about referrals?

Lynn Whitbeck  48:27

Yeah, so referrals, you know, are, there’s two, I mean, there’s three critical pieces first, and you know, you need to earn the right. Next, you need to ask for the referral. And third, you need to reward and recognize and reward when you’ve received a referral. But there’s that beyond that you have to have incorporated this into your sales process. So it becomes part of your DNA. And so a very simple way to do that right up the gate is, you know, Heather, it’s so great that we’ve connected today, and we’re having this incredible conversation. Because you know, what’s really interesting is most of time when I meet new people, it’s because they’ve been referred to me by a client. And I just the rapport that we’ve had is just blown my mind. And I really appreciate that. Well, I just seated the idea that most of my new conversations are coming from referrals. Okay, so that’s just one super simple way. But what you’re doing is that when you think this through it, what’s surprising is most companies like 90% of the companies will say, Oh, we have a referral process in place. And no, you don’t. Yeah, and actually, in actuality, it’s like less than 10% really train on referrals and put that in place. So but this is one of the surest ways to shorten your sales cycle and increase your profit. Okay, is referrals and creating a referral network?

Heather Pearce Campbell  49:58

So you see it in the conversation is early on by mentioning referrals. Very mentioned it often. Yeah. And then you said that, and I think you said at some point, there’s a really key time when it’s the right time to ask for referrals. Right?

Lynn Whitbeck  50:14

Yeah, normally after someone has made the decision to move forward and to work with you, is the optimum. And in some cases, in some types of businesses that can be within those first two hours, but the key thing is that you’ve actually earned that the right and that you’ve been seeding it all the way along. And then you can ask if you know, Heather, do you know somebody who would like to have the same experience that you’ve had as having me as a guest on your show? You have another podcast host that would like to have this same type of conversation? And you’re gonna say, Well, yeah, I know, 10 other podcast hosts, and they’d love to have you on the show.

Heather Pearce Campbell  50:52

And so are you saying, so, you know, the podcast example I get, but I thought I heard you say, as soon as they enroll, so before you’ve even delivered the service, are you saying that’s the right time,

Lynn Whitbeck  51:03

You can, I mean, once again, it really depends on the product or service, you know, people can be pretty excited about having made the decision, etc. But once again, there comes a point where you’re manipulating the situation, and it depends on the product or service you’re delivering. For some people and the type of product you’re have, like for you and the work that you’re doing, you really need to go through an implementation on onboarding and implementation. So that they, they’ve actually started working with you, right, they see for they’re going to be ready to provide a referral. So it’s absolutely unique to the situation, okay. And so there’s, you know, some people don’t want to put you in this whole cookie cutter mold, oh, do this, and then do that, and then do this. Well, if you follow that cookie cutter mold, you could just alienate all your clients, okay? So it really more thought. And energy needs to be put into this. So that it fits your business, and it fits your customers, your client base, and that it’s going to deliver the best results, because that’s at the end of the day, it’s how are you going to be move yourself forward and accelerate your growth?

Heather Pearce Campbell  52:22

Well, I am fascinated by even the statistics used, I actually would have expected because I’ve been in groups where I hear people talking about referral systems, referral programs, etc. But a huge percentage of small businesses are like, No, we don’t actually do anything. Well, in regards to referrals, right?

Lynn Whitbeck  52:40

Oh, yeah. Well, so many people think it’s got an offer all these different perks or refer friend or this and that, and that’s just totally bogus, the best types of referrals are when you’re having that one on one conversation. And that you have, you know, you’ve earned the right because the business that you’ve been doing and the service that you’re giving them, and that you ask for the referral. Yeah. Right. And then you reward and recognize, and once people have begun, and you’ve they’ve you started asking, they’ll start delivering more and more referrals to you. 

Heather Pearce Campbell  53:11

Hey, folks, you have to ask I think that’s…

Lynn Whitbeck  53:15

Yeah, yeah. Don’t Ask, Don’t get. You have to earn the right first. Okay. You know it right? If you’ve delivered a crappy product, it was late, and nobody ever called them back about their complaints. Yeah, I would not ask be asking for a referral. Okay. Right.

Heather Pearce Campbell  53:32

So if you’re gonna do all that up first, do it well, yes. You’re gonna do it, do it. Well earn the right to ask. I love that. So Lynn, out of respect for your time, and for our listeners time, I’m going to ask you, where are you online? And where do you like for people to connect with you?

Lynn Whitbeck  53:52

Well, the two easiest places are our website, and that’s petite2queen.com tons of free resources that masterclass that free masterclass I talked about, you can connect with me there and I am the only Lynn Whitbeck on LinkedIn. And about every six weeks, I offer a free workshop on LinkedIn. And I’ve got one I’ve always got one coming up so just you can take a look there. And you can also find me on my TV show that streams on Apple Roku and Amazon Fire it’s on the Win Win Women Network and it’s called Get more clients.

Heather Pearce Campbell  54:32

Welove it. Go check out we’ll share that I would love to share a link to your TV show along with your website, LinkedIn, whatever you want to share, it looks like I’ve got a link to a free masterclass here. So folks if you are listening, hop over to the show notes page as always, you can find those at legalwebsitewarrior.com/podcast. Lynn, so much fun chatting with you today about a range of topics. What final either thoughts or act, some steps would you like to leave people with today?

Lynn Whitbeck  55:04

Start thinking like your client. They’re the ones who make the decision. They’re the ones who pay you the money. So start thinking like your client.

Heather Pearce Campbell  55:12

Yeah, so important, like walk yourself through your own sales strategy as a client, right? Think about how that feels at each step of the way. Because I think often we implement steps that we think are a good fit, but we don’t actually slow down to be like, Okay, I’m the client. Does this work? And alternatively, is there something else that would work better, right? Yeah. Yeah. I love that. Thank you, Lynn. So great to connect with you today. Really appreciate your time. 

Lynn Whitbeck  55:43

Thank you, Heather. It’s been a pleasure, anytime.

GGGB Outro  55:48

Thank you for joining us today on the Guts, Grit and Great Business® podcast. We hope that we’ve added a little fuel to your tank, some coffee to your cup and pep in your step to keep you moving forward in your own great adventures. For key takeaways, links to any resources mentioned in today’s show and more, see the show notes which can be found at www.legalwebsitewarrior.com/podcast. Be sure to subscribe to the podcast and if you enjoyed today’s conversation, please give us some stars and a review on Apple podcasts, Spotify or wherever you get your podcast so others will find us too. Keep up the great work you are doing in the world and we’ll see you next week.