Voice, Vision & Visibility

With Michelle Kopper, a Transformational Message Mentor and Visibility Expert who believes that your voice and vision are your most powerful marketing assets. Michelle is the Founder & CEO of The Inspired Voice Business Coaching, creator of Make Videos That Sell, Fearless Facebook LIVE Formula, Visibility Success Academy and the host of my Give Voice To Your Vision Livestream show where she interviews emerging and established visionaries, thought leaders and other leading-edge entrepreneurs. She helps experts, coaches, healers, speakers, and other purpose-led transformation business owners find their voice, clarify their message and expand their powerful presence to grow their reach, impact, and income as they voice their vision, may it be online, onstage, and on-video. Her unique approach to visibility – online and off — helps you find your words, activate your confidence to turn your vulnerability around being seen and heard into your greatest marketing asset so that your message inspires and moves your audience to see you, hear you, and hire you.

In this conversation, Michelle shares her secrets on how to use your voice to express your vision  and turn your vulnerability into confidence that converts your audiences into clients. She also gave a sneak peak of her marvelous voice somewhere in this conversation so make sure to listen in until the end. You will also hear her talk about her incredible journey from being a professional singer to an entrepreneur who has achieved her first six-figure income in a span of 18 months.

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Biggest takeaways (or quotes) you don’t want to miss:

  • “Finding your voice is a spiritual practice… and your marketing can be a part of that practice.”
  • “No one’s voice is the same. No one’s message is the same.”
  • The nature of the universe is to expand.
  • “When you’re building a team, a brand, or an awareness, it gets more vulnerable.”
  • Most of the coaching industry that’s bringing transformation have a unique challenge around “how do we say it?”
  • “Not only do we need to clarify the platforms and strategies but also our offers.”

“Your self-expression, sensation and vibration of your voice can change not only those memories and things that get stuck, but it can also change the world.”

-Michelle Kopper

Check out these highlights:

  • 04:21 Michelle shares when she started using her voice and how she realized its importance.
  • 17:22 Michelle’s personal encounters with some people where she witnessed dismissing other people’s use of their voice.
  • 20:22 How she transitioned from working with artists to entrepreneurs.
  • 26:19 How did Michelle achieve six figures within 18 months?
  • 46:28 What Michelle suggests to people in terms of outreach platforms.
  • 52:31 What makes a simplified content creation strategy work?

How to get in touch with Michelle:

On social media:

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/TheInspiredVoice/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/givevoicetoyourvision/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/michellekopper

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCU-ibDwhGmSDcU2Wfdx5tkw

Twitter: https://twitter.com/michelle_kopper

Learn more about Michelle, by visiting her website here.

Imperfect Show Notes

We are happy to offer these imperfect show notes to make this podcast more accessible to those who are hearing impaired or those who prefer reading over listening. While we would love to offer more polished show notes, we are currently offering an automated transcription (which likely includes errors, but hopefully will still deliver great value), below.

GGGB Intro  00:00

Coming up today on Guts, Grit and Great Business™… 

Michelle Kopper  00:02

And I was asked by a high level consultant. And, you know, I was talking with him about a community he was building and he said, “Do you want to be a soloist or a member of the choir?” And I was like, the thing about choirs is, everybody’s supposed to blend. And I said, I think I would like to contribute to a choir full of soloists. Because no one’s voice is the same. No one’s message is the same. And so many of us in the entrepreneurial space deal with well, so and so already said it Who am I to say, I mean, I do a lot of vulnerability work. I could say, you know, Brene Brown already said it. My life was changed by Marianne Williamson’s famous speech 25 maybe more years ago, right? Who are we not to be gorgeous, talented, fabulous and brilliant, right? Our playing small does not serve the world.

GGGB Intro  00:31

The adventure of entrepreneurship and building a life and business you love, preferably at the same time is not for the faint of heart. That’s why Heather Pearce Campbell is bringing you a dose of guts, grit and great business stories that will inspire and motivate you to create what you want in your business and life. Welcome to the Guts, Grit and Great Business™ podcast where endurance is required. Now, here’s your host, The Legal Website Warrior®, Heather Pearce Campbell.

Heather Pearce Campbell  00:48

Alrighty, welcome. I am Heather Pearce Campbell, The Legal Website Warrior®. I’m an attorney and legal coach based here in Seattle, Washington, serving entrepreneurs throughout the United States and the world. Welcome to another episode of Guts, Grit and Great Business™. I am so excited to have my friend and a brilliant entrepreneur with us here today, Michelle Kopper. Welcome, Michelle.

Michelle Kopper  01:05

I’m so excited to be here. Oh my gosh, thank you for having me.

Heather Pearce Campbell  01:06

I know it took us so long to get this schedule.

Heather Pearce Campbell  01:11

We do we do. We finally decided to go live. But Michelle, I am such a I have always been a fan and then getting to know you the last several years. I think we met the year before the pandemic was it a couple of years.

Michelle Kopper  02:11

It did. And then it’s like, oh, my gosh, and catch up. So we need to talk more often.

Michelle Kopper  02:32

It was the February before the pandemic. Ah, okay, we got to be in person together.

Heather Pearce Campbell  02:39

I know it’s got to be in person. And then we’ve had to separate for several years, which is really hard.

Michelle Kopper  02:45

Only three hours apart.

Heather Pearce Campbell  02:46

I know. We’re so overdue for another in-person connection. But for folks that don’t know Michelle, let me introduce Michelle Kopper. Michelle is a transformational message mentor, a visibility expert who believes that your voice and vision are your most powerful marketing assets. She helps experts, coaches, healers, speakers and other purpose led entrepreneurs find their voice clarify their message and expand their powerful presence to grow their reach, impact and income as they give their voice, their vision, online, onstage and on video. Michelle’s unique approach to visibility online and off helps you find your words, activate your confident presence, and turn your vulnerability around being seen and heard into your greatest marketing assets so that your message inspires and moves your audience to see you hear you and hire you.

Michelle Kopper  03:54

Fun to hear all those things coming back. Yeah, you do that? I do that?

Heather Pearce Campbell  03:58

Yes, you do. Yes, you do. And I know you’ve got a story around your own journey for folks that don’t know you. And I know that for people that do know you. We still want to hear the story. Again. I’m sure you have an origin story related to why your voice is so important. Right? Do you mind?

Michelle Kopper  04:17

Oh, not at all, you know, I was called to sing I was this three year old kid who knew what my purpose for being on the planet was to sing. And of course that meant I was going to be in the church Christmas play. And you know, grandma was the next door to the church. I had to go to the church with the grandma and it was like gonna happen. I’m in my tinsel. Hallo. I’ve got the white sheet I’m about to sing with the heavenly hosts like my life is about to unfold exactly as it’s meant to. And the lights came up, and I was overcome with inexplicable terror and I ran to sit on my grandma’s lap. And I can still feel that physical feeling and And so of course, I became a professional performer and did that to myself over and over and over again. Because of that called feeling called to do something great big greatness, bigger play bigger, I have a voice. And I was overcome, it didn’t make any sense. I was always encouraged, I was encouraged, I was told you could be a world class vocalist. And I wanted that, but all I heard was could be really hard. So I went pursued singing through my young life. And it got so bad that I would cry, my throat would close up, I couldn’t do it under pressure, and the pressure got worse and worse. And eventually, I totally stopped. So I did you know, I shifted and became a performer. And, but this holding back, this, I’m not good enough, it’s not going to be if I can’t do it perfectly, I’m not going to do it, my body’s gonna betray me, I want to but I wish I could the doubt and the desire was excruciating. And it, I bargained with it. And I shifted gears, and I did all these things to go around it, and how to really, and I use drugs and alcohol, people situations, guts, and grit. You know, just like sheer will to try and push through it. And it really ended up getting me to where I was kind of alone in a basement filled with self loathing and frustration and how to, you know, a moment of clarity, a gift of grace, I call it the gift of desperation, right? It couldn’t get worse. And it allowed me I had a pretty powerful spiritual experience, where all of a sudden, I was like, wait a minute, I don’t have to live this way. And made some big changes. But one of the first things that happened with that experience is that I would have songs dropping into my head. And they weren’t songs that I was making up. It wasn’t like, Oh, I’m going to be a songwriter. Because remember, I’m too scared to say in front of people. So that would be really futile. And the first time that dropped in was what I needed to hear. It was very much a divine message. And so I’m like, okay, crap, I think that’s a song like this was a little bit goes like this. Open up your mind and see the moment is at hand, then you’ll realize and the truth you’ll understand. Heaven is right here waiting for you around you and everything you see, it’s bigger than anything you’ve dreamed of. Even you and me. And I’m like, Oh.

Heather Pearce Campbell  07:45


Michelle Kopper  07:46

And so I said, I think I wrote a song to a friend. She said, if I could, I said I sang a little bit, I sang the whole thing for her. And she was like, if I could do that, I would. And I was like, Yeah, but you don’t understand because my whole body will betray Me and I will choke and I will cry. And anyway, I had encouragement, bunch of songs started to come through, and they all had this message that was so much bigger than me, it was so much when I needed to hear it was so much a product of all the doubt and desire, the doubt and the desire. So I am because I had this gift of grace, I you know, that’s like a gift, you don’t want to waste, right, you’re here to serve, you’re here to use that gift. And it led me on a journey to heal and reclaim my physical voice, my singing voice, many, many songs came, I perform professionally with my own rock and roll band in New York City for years. And I still feel a little charged singing, I can still feel that vulnerability. But the process and the journey to that led me to a teach, seeing performance, where there’s a lot of Broadway dancers and actors who are terrified of singing, but they have to sing in order to get the part. And there’s people that are wanting to speak in boardrooms. And so if I had a studio in New York City, and I taught my favorite were the people who were like, I don’t really know what I’m doing here. But I think I’m here for a reason, I don’t know. And I watched their lives transform as we did this work of finding and freeing your voice. Yes, we focused on physical voice that so much other stuff was happening. And so my natural journey of expansion was calling to help unleash the power of the human voice on the planet. If everyone had their voice, no matter what other people thought did said believed wanted, it would be a different world. So in that journey, I had to keep expanding and going on to my own levels of greatness, you know not and that’s not like I’m so great. We are all great, but like we are here to expand that led me to wanting to reach and serve more people. And I was drawn to I was divinely led against my will to kicking and screaming to the online entrepreneurial industry, specifically the coaching industry because I had already been teaching and mentoring and I really saw the similarity between this feeling so many of us. We can go sell for IBM, we can go is IBM even exist anymore? We can go sell for other people. I’m not that old. Oh, I knew I had a client who talked to 10,000 people in an IBM conference, no problem. When it came to speaking about her personal journey, her gifts, the thing she wanted to share, she was overcome with fear. And she would cry, and she had all those same things. And that’s what led me to see like, Okay, wait a minute, something else is going on here. So that led me to helping experts coaches, I work mostly with coaches, healers, now, people who are called to uplift to serve to heal, but we have to grow our own business, we have to make some money doing it. And that journey of like self promotion, how do I say it? What do I say I learned that I can download messaging the same way I download songs Hello, easier for you then when I do it for myself, but you know, it all came together so that I knew I was going to make more of a ripple, more of an impact. And it was it was vulnerable. For me, I had another level of expansion and vulnerability around. Okay, now I’m going to talk about how you can pay me 1000s of dollars. And now I’m going to show up consistently, and I’m gonna hone my message and learn some skills and be vulnerable and be visible and risk. The one thing that it comes down to were fear of what other people think of us, right? Like we if we’re going to be visible, people are going to judge us, I also learned that I’m probably judging a bunch of other people, if I’m feeling judgey. So I’ll own that. So that’s, you know, the this in a nutshell, helping people who are here to uplift to bring them a message through which I think we all are, right, or we’re waking up later, like, there’s got to be something better than this, right? And they want to find their voice and their message. And I believe your business is your message, your self expression is your destiny. It’s the journey and your business is a spiritual practice, finding your voice is a spiritual practice. And your marketing can be a part of that practice. When you’re in alignment with who you are. Maybe you learn a little skill, you got some outside eyes on that bridge that we got to build in the messaging department from what you’re called to share, and how you can say it in a way that people hear it. But that has been my journey to now help coaches and healers, online entrepreneurs to find their voice give voice to their vision. And with freedom and enthusiasm and personality and excitement, not my personality.

Heather Pearce Campbell  12:43

I’ll take it. I’ll take it.

Michelle Kopper  12:47

So that’s my journey. And then we’ve been doing this online coaching, the inspired voice business coaching has been around for now almost eight years. I guess. That’s what we do.

Heather Pearce Campbell  12:55

That’s awesome. Well, I think there’s some really important pieces in your journey. And I think so many people listening can relate to, I know for you is the experience that happened when you were teeny tiny, right? You’re overcome with fear.

Michelle Kopper  13:11

Right? And again, and again, and again, and again, every audition every vocal competition, you know, I had the fortune of being a TV commercial actress for a while in New York City. I made my living for a few years as a TV, commercial actress. That’s like hundreds of auditions in a week, where you’re going in and looking for someone’s approval. Totally beyond your control. Right. All right, you know, and let me tell you, you know, rapping for Pizza Hut and Pringles was not my vision. That was I was trying to give my voice to.

Heather Pearce Campbell  13:45

Oh, my gosh, that, isn’t it? I mean, then I can just imagine the pressure hundreds, like proof. I’m just thinking even, let’s just talk about the regular use of our voice like not even for those of us who have had to like, be on TV or or seeing in front of a crowd or whatever, right? I’m not even talking about that level. I’m an adrenaline junkie, that way, right? That takes it to a whole new level. No, I’m talking about just the day to day use of our voice right? And how many people get disconnected from the either the belief of you know of other people believing in what they say I my sister and I had a recent experience. And I was sharing on another episode about, like, we all have our own healing journey, right home journey, healing journey, and so much of it. Right, we’re learning some things about the impact of some of these childhood experiences and stuff that ended up embedding so deeply as beliefs, right? They’re wrong beliefs, but their beliefs because they weren’t in temporary cellular memory.

Michelle Kopper  14:51

Like there they get we lock them in and then we repeat the contract because we’re little and we don’t know any better.

Heather Pearce Campbell  14:58

That’s right. And so my sister had this experience when she was eight, she broke her arm. We were rollerblading like little wild people in the basement. And she broke her arm and she went to mom and dad and said, Hey, my arm really hurts, right? Like it was really hurting. And they did not believe her and did not listen to her. And so and she had a pretty badly broken arm. And a week later, she’s still like crying to herself in private, like, Oh, sweetie, oh, I know, it breaks my heart to even think about this. But she’s like in the bathtub, and she’s like, I don’t even know what she’s using to wrap her arm and Ace bandage or something, you know, and she’s crying. She’s eight. And my mom comes in and sees her and realizes like, this is still hurting. You know, my dad had called her. Right, I know, we could go, oh. Yeah. Oh, crap. And so they took her in. And sure enough, it was a pretty bad break. And it was not very helpful that they had not seen her a week ago. Right. Yeah, yeah. So she, you know, they went through whatever they had to do and variants of knots of her heard, yes. And so even now, like in our own health journey, that how this came up again, recently is we connected with a doctor who his whole mission is to get people he’s like, there’s two modes in the body, there’s fight or flight, or there’s healing mode, like that’s it, you’re either in stress mode, or you’re in healing mode. And that’s really how we’re designed and pretty much everybody is walking around in stress mode these days, you know.

Michelle Kopper  16:32

Most of the time unless you know, something, and you have some tools, right?

Heather Pearce Campbell  16:37

Right. Yes, but you know, and but the point is, is that even some of our stress modes that we might be we might be aware of, we often don’t understand the root causes of like a belief like this being embedded so deeply at age eight, like, my voice doesn’t matter. My parents don’t care about me, right? This kind of stuff.

Michelle Kopper  16:58

It’s super powerful. So I’ve heard so many nightmares. So for I had a teacher, I’ve seen performance and speaking studio in New York City for 10 years, and Portland for 10 years.

Heather Pearce Campbell  17:10

You’ve heard all the stories, almost universally,

Michelle Kopper  17:12

Somebody had everybody, almost everybody had a message somewhere that it was not safe or okay for them to have their voice in some way. I heard a story of nuns telling a little girl not to sing because she was off to they told her to mouth the words and eventually moved her into like the percussion in the band room. Right? One of my first business coaches and mentors had a second grade teacher who’s tell tell him probably perfectly well meaning like you’re singing out of tune, right? And then there’s just all the times that we’re told to be quiet and to not say it right. And you know what, I’m a parent. And I’m a parent who knows about voice stuff, but um, sometimes I’m like, Okay, you have really big resonant baritone voice and I love your voice but can you turn the volume down? Like it’s not it’s not anybody’s fault, but we adopt these stories and it is it everybody has a story and we all hate the way our voice sounds right. And so the within that, here’s a story for the healing of that. Now. Your self expression, the sensation and vibration of your voice can change not only your cellular shake up those memories and things that get stuck, but it can change the world. If you think about sound you know, The Big Bang Theory, right? I am the Word and the Word is God. Right? Like there’s many every maybe spiritual creation singing into creation, native Aboriginals, how they use the world was sung into sound. So your voice is create can create can heal your reality. And when we’re holding it back, it’s exhausting. And it’s exacerbating that flight state. But most of us are on some level because it doesn’t feel safe. So it takes guts and grit to put yourself out there. And across the board. I have seen people transform by daring and sharing and owning and claiming their voice.

Heather Pearce Campbell  19:19

I love that give me goosebumps, the part about our voice being like a source of creation, right?

Michelle Kopper  19:28

Yes, the universe of healing in sound? Oh, um, right. Like all of the teachings do that. So think about your universe, right? And whether it’s the vibrational sensation and vibration of your actual physical voice, and even the thoughts there’s the ability to express the written it’s all energetic, right? So true, very powerful, and it makes it a little scary. Wait, what?

Heather Pearce Campbell  19:57


Michelle Kopper  20:01

It has to do with my marketing and signing up clients, okay, anyway…

Heather Pearce Campbell  20:06

Yeah, but the possibilities and well on that point because I’d love to hear your part of the journey of how you made the leap from working with, you know, artists, Broadway people, etc to entrepreneurship.

Michelle Kopper  20:22

Yeah, so I was a business owner who wasn’t making any money. First off, and I was that for a long time, because I didn’t know how to articulate my message. I had all my own limiting, playing small playing safe illusions and beliefs. And I had to be very, very brave to claim my voice because my whole body was against it right? Long journey, rigorous, many modalities, lots of stuff went on there, right? And so I’m held having a business because I was part of my bargaining with the universe, right? Like, oh, I’m supposed to sing. Well, I can’t do that. So I’m going to be an actor. And okay, that’s getting really hard. And I don’t really want to talk about Pringles potato chips. You know what I mean? And a bird shit on my face in New York City between auditions you know, more than once. It’s like, it was rigorous. I learned a lot. And I still couldn’t sing as totally free as I want. And and then how do I make money with songs? Okay, now I have these amazing songs. How am I going to make money there was a whole journey there. And so fast forward, I had kids and I had these teaching studios and I was like, struggling financially and the universe brought me this wake up call that I didn’t want. I was like, No, not that and it kept showing up that night, finally.

Heather Pearce Campbell  21:41


Michelle Kopper  21:41

And it led me to my first online opt in Deepak and Oprah. By the way, if you’re curious, thank you, Deepak and Oprah. Listen to them every day over and over, I said, I had tried every bit of hustle I could find. I had tried everything, finishing my college degree in my 40s. Just running businesses, I thought I had tried everything. And that’s the thing is that I hadn’t. So that led me to work with a business coach, and I discovered the realm of online coaching. I think my only kind of reference point for any kind of like, speaking, inspirational, speaking motivation thing at that point was that movie Magnolia, which was basically, I think it was Tom Cruise, kind of like parodying or having this weird version of Tony Robbins. It was a, it was a weird trip. So I had no reference for it. I had no reference for the coaching business, I had no reference for, you know, speaking to serve. And I was like, I went, I signed up for a coaching practice, how to make offers how to talk to people. And you know, and I was like, I have been doing this mentoring, and I’m watching people’s lives change for a really long time. But it came out of my realization that I was playing small, that I was playing small, I was shy or embarrassed about charging, I was not sure how to put an offer together, I was not sure how much to charge. And I was really in this money story of what I thought they would pay. And so but I was willing to change. And I had that gift of desperation, you know, 20 plus years earlier, and I was like, Okay, I’m ready to do that. Again, let’s have some more of that goodness, right? And I really kind of gave up the struggle, and began to learn more. And this guy ended up being I ended up signing up. I was so I got on the pay house lists. Right? And I was my first list. Oh, my God, I’m on so many lists now. Right? But it was like, hey, houses list and they started promoting? Who the man who became my first business coach. And it was against every fiber of my being, I was like, no, no, no. And the universe was like, what about this? You ask for help? What about this? I signed up, and I heard him saying, because he was teaching and sharing things about playing big. And who are you not, you know, like you could you’re just because you want to you can play all these things I’ve been teaching for so long. And he was making millions of dollars, right. And he also built the bridge for me between self expression owning who you are allowing yourself I’m worthy because I exist, and marketing and growing a business. And he drew that line for me. And I was still pretty disoriented, but I was like, willing to try anything. And I learned very quickly, as soon as I had some of the skills and things around the way we craft our message so that people want to come towards us and hire us. I that I was able to download that like I did for the songs. And I do it better for my clients. I already told you that. So that’s my that’s how I made the shift. And I went from, you know, my business making 40 or $50,000 a year, which meant I was bringing like 17 home, right, right, because I’m paying for a studio and an accompanist to we got to our first six figure year within 18 months. And I did it was mostly in here. It was a combination of inspired action. A little bit of like desperate oh my god I’ve invested everything I have I got to make some money action, which isn’t I highly recommended, but it worked. And really a commitment to myself to to expand. I was like, I’m not done. I’m not supposed to struggle this hard. I know people want this message. I know people benefit. I’ve watched them transform before my eyes. So what am I going to give up on them because I’m scared, or I’m vulnerable, or I’m going to let what other people might think about me stop me from sharing my message. And I did I do sometimes it’s scary, I get weird, just right. But it’ll call me forward. And being in that making some investments that were way beyond my comfort zone was a part of that for me, and then not giving up not pivoting and shifting. And what happened is, as I did this, and I got, you know, created some video training programs for video confidence, because that was very similar to singing in front of people, right. And I have that particular experience. And today, we really focus on streamlining, your simplifying your visibility, getting out there, being the leader, sharing your message in a way that feels amazing to you. But also sharing it in words that resonate with your clients and growing a sustainable business with it. And your business is like your revenue can be. It’s like the universe saying you’re doing it, you’re serving humanity. Right? It’s there you go. Good job. It’s an energetic exchange. So it’s evolved from there. It’s evolved from there. Does that get the story in there?

Heather Pearce Campbell  26:39

Oh, you totally did. And I just I think, you know, of course, looking backward, you’re like, How appropriate is it? That I’m working with entrepreneurs, so have a message to share? 100% right, and 100% change the world with that message? Everyone can? 

Heather Pearce Campbell  26:57

All right, let’s pause for a moment and hear from today’s sponsor. Are you an entrepreneur who is on track to make 1 million or more in revenue this year in your business? If so, your business is likely facing a host of legal issues that are ripe for support. If you are like so many of my clients at this level, you are likely building or adding to your team. This could be interstate within the US or even internationally. Hiring independent contractors to support your growth, creating or launching brand assets, content and programs, expanding your online presence and building your email database, engaging in a variety of online marketing activities, executing a number of contracts on an ongoing basis, and more. But the bottom line is that you are quickly scaling and need essential legal support. You’re tired of taking risks and the DIY approach, you’re ready to tackle that mess of legal documents, or fix the legal gaps that you know exist in your business. You want to take care of your clients and your business and avoid unnecessary conflict in the process. You’re ready to protect your IP, and you’re looking for a fixed cost solution that is a fit for your business and delivers tremendous value beyond the traditional legal model. If this is you, and beyond just being an entrepreneur, you are a catalyst and are committed to your mission and your impact in the world. I invite you to get in touch, you could be a fit for my catalyst club, a small business legal support program that I designed for my high level clients just like you. You can find out more at legalwebsitewarrior.com. Just click on the Work with Me tab to find out more about the catalyst club and other ways that I support my clients. A fabulous group of world changing entrepreneurs. You’ve done the initial legwork in your business. And now you want to soar. And you know that you can only go as high and as far as your legal foundation lets you go get in touch today. Hop over to legalwebsitewarrior.com, click on the Work with Me tab. And if you have any questions just click through and get in touch with me through the contact form. I’d be happy to connect and talk with you about the options that may be a great fit for your business.

Michelle Kopper  29:34

And I was asked by, you probably know I’m a high level consultant and you know, I was talking with him about a community he was building and and he said do you want to be a soloist or a member of the choir? And I was like the thing about choirs is everybody’s supposed to blend in and I said, I think I would like to contribute to a choir full of soloists. Because no one’s voice is the same, no one’s message is the same. And so many of us in the entrepreneurial space deal with well, so and so already said it, who am I to say? I mean, I do a lot of vulnerability work, I could say, you know, Brene Brown already said it, My life was changed by Marianne Williamson’s famous speech 25, maybe more years ago, right? Who are we not to be gorgeous, talented, fabulous and brilliant, right? Our playing small does not serve the world. What. And I learned that long, long time ago, and I was still doing it again. So too, we always have a next level of expansion. Yeah, and absolutely see how it comes together. And my songs still are a part of it, right? My songs are still a part of it, new songs come not as often as they used to, but there’s an album in the future. And seeing, because I viscerally physically in my body know what that choking feeling, and the bitter disappointment and frustration, of not stepping into that thing that we want that we feel called, I know what in my body. So the people that are drawn to working with me and the people that I’m able to help feel that and there’s a level of resonance of trust. And because they feel safe and seen and heard, they can do amazing things very, very quickly, sometimes after years of, I know what I need to do, but I can’t I just need to make myself do it. But I’m not. And that I’m you know, Nike did us all a favor, just do it is powerful. But if we know that, and we can’t, because of this, oh, and then we make it wrong. It just ruins so many dreams, it slows down the revenue. So there’s a no doubt about the alignment for me, and also for having it be connected to revenue generation, because that was part of my journey. And I was like, Oh, I just want enough to get by. I’m grateful for what I have. I did that for like, years. And I ended up with a huge debt, medical bills, and I was under earning and all of those things happen. So really learning to expand. And that’s the nature of the universe to expand. We never finished expanding, and you know, now into really how can you run toward your next expansion? That’s just one of the things that I do. And I love to help other people do.

Heather Pearce Campbell  32:28

Oh, I love the visual of that. And you know, in it with that the important thing I think to keep in mind is like with each new level of expansion, I think some people think like, well, there’s a point of arrival right? There. Like, I’ll have figured all of this out, I will like, I’ll have the answer to…

Michelle Kopper  32:48

I have the prizes, too, by the way. I’m on now, right.

Heather Pearce Campbell  32:52

But each new level, we have new doubts, we have those new, new versions of the previous thing to still work through and do… 

Michelle Kopper  33:03

Another level of expansion and other levels avail to part right, you know, the more successful we are as entrepreneurs, and we’re starting to make some money, and then maybe we’re trying something new or what we were doing stopped working, or, you know, we’re not friends with that person anymore. Whatever. Right? We can feel really vulnerable and even more vulnerable. Like when I got nothing to lose, and nobody knows who I am. I can go kind of we get out there a little bit.

Heather Pearce Campbell  33:31

Right. But then you’re building team, you’re building brand, you’re building awareness. Yeah.

Michelle Kopper  33:37

And there’s it gets more vulnerable. And you know, it could feel like oh, the higher you climb, the farther you fall, but I don’t buy that, right? It’s all expansion and you never get it done, and you can’t get it wrong. I’ve never got it done and you can’t get it wrong. And we need to be with people that are at that level of expansion or a little bit ahead. Because that’s how we are supported and uplifted that rising tide right? The Rising Tide is isn’t always like this exact same. And so it’s super important to be with people that give us goosebumps with people that inspire us and are doing brave things with people who can see our greatness before we can feel it sometimes.

Heather Pearce Campbell  34:21

Hmm, so good. So speaking of you can never do it wrong. But let’s look at the industry as a whole I want to shift. I know right? We love them so much. And what do you see because I know you work with a wide variety of entrepreneurs all within you know, the space that you serve that I serve. 

Michelle Kopper  34:48

Most of the coaching industry or the healing that we’re solo practitioners of a modality that’s bringing transformation so I’m a transformational message mentor because those of us in that space have a unique challenge around how do we say it? So what’s going on and I jumped into this up to my eyeballs all the way in. I’m like, Okay, show me what to do. And I’ll swim. And it was great. I learned a ton. And I did all the things which are, what the things are. All the strategies, the strategies, tactics, tools, the templates, the formulas, I’m really good at trying somebody else’s thing all the way in really doing it exactly how they say. But then there’s one part that we often forget. And that is like, Hmm, what do I think?

Heather Pearce Campbell  35:39

How did that feel? How did that work? Right?

Michelle Kopper  35:41

So what’s going on and it’s been coming for a long time, it got very frenetic and it’s very noisy and very loud. With the pandemic and everybody going even more virtual. And it’s not one thing, but it’s a frenetic busyness, it’s a complexity it’s scrambling to do. I break it into three categories, really like one is I call it scattershot visibility, where I, you know, Heather, here we are, I’ve been like, I’ve really been feeling like, I gotta do a podcast. No, I should be doing a podcast. And I would really like to be building my YouTube channel. And I already have a weekly Facebook group, Facebook live training that I do, and I’ve got my email marketing going, and I needed some funnels, and I created some programs, and then I needed some freebies to go with the programs. And then I was supposed to do challenges. So I’ve got a couple of really good challenges too. And I need a whole JV system. And I got a lot of really good JV partners, you’re one of them. And then they grew my list. And I love these people, and they’re amazing. And so I really need to promote them too. And I need to create new stuff now, because I’ve done that other stuff. And then I really needed to crack the Facebook ad code, right? Like, people are just like building these little funnels, and they’re like, bringing them all these clients, and I need to do that too. And so and I should be speaking more I should be, I could go on and on. And this is me being real with you right now. Right? So what’s different for me is this feeling this drive this compulsion that I’m not doing enough that I should be doing more, and then I need to be doing everything in order to have a sustainable thriving business. So my big message around that, over the last two years has been what can I stop doing? Yes. Because when we’re doing all of those things are freaking great. But if you do them all at once, you don’t know what’s working and what isn’t. You don’t know where to fix it. And it’s very easy to say that I’m it didn’t work. I tried that I created a program. Nobody bought it the second time it was a flop. And so it didn’t it didn’t work. So when I’m gonna go to this, and I’m gonna go to that. So that’s the other thing we do is we switch gears too soon. And the that was that’s just scattershot visibility. The next one I call perpetual program purchases. Program purchase problem. Actually, one of my clients came up with that. And we were alliterative together. That’s hilarious, you know, and it’s it’s compelling. All those programs are great. You know, I have some really good digital programs, I stopped even offering them right now because people we’ve talked to over 300 people in the last two weeks, my team and I specifically trying to really talk to people that are in my Facebook group, they’ve known me we’ve talked before, they liked me how a third of them didn’t even respond because they’re so busy. And have the others that did half of them were like I have seen so many programs, I have so many unfinished programs, I have to finish this and I’m doing this certification, and I’m trying to get this going and I gotta get this going. And I know woman has been working on her challenge for four years. And so there’s something else going on, right? And so this perpetual program purchase or certifications, it’s either programs to build my business or one more healing label certification. And that really comes down to like I am not worthy yet. I am not complete and I am not ready. So all of those things will get more value for you. When you streamline and simplify and focus on one thing. It really boils down to having a clear, aligned, inspired offer and building your business around your strengths, right your strengths. So scattershot visibility, everywhere, right? Just it feels like you have to but you don’t. And it becomes we become addicted to the frenetic frenzy. I call it adrenaline based business growth. I’m an expert at it. So there’s no judgment here. I think you you know what I’m talking about, right? So when I’m in the scattershot mode, if I’m throwing spaghetti at every wall, I know my audience doesn’t have any time to find me or remember me or hear me. Perpetual program purchases keep me in study mode and busy mode and doing course content, or we also get stuck Behind the scenes, building out our platforms and Bill working on our websites and creating our courses, but that’s not generating revenue. And some sometimes we get, we never get our business going, because we get so lost in those things. And then we spent 10s of 1000s of dollars, and we don’t have the return on investment. Because we didn’t have the support, whether it’s clarity, or the way to tie all those pieces of the puzzle together. Yeah, right. There’s another thing, but that’s a lot already. I can’t remember. But I usually…

Heather Pearce Campbell  35:51

No, it’s well, it’s it is, I think, 100% accurate reflection of many people’s journey in this entrepreneurial space of trying to figure it out, right, make all the puzzle pieces fit. Yeah. And, you know, going to this person and learning this thing. And, you know, the reality is, these businesses are not like big businesses that have teams to just figure it out and do this and make it work. And so, you know, we’re all as individuals limited in our decision making power, we’re limited in our energy. Yeah, right.

Michelle Kopper  41:09

And you don’t have so I have so since I started simplifying, as I said, I hustled and moved my butt off. And I got close to six figures in about 18 months, but being close to six figures was a hustle and a bogey your butt off mode, right? And I didn’t have enough revenue to have a team or not enough team that I needed. There was cost for technology and learning curve and training. And so I was exhausted. And it took me three or four years in business to I hovering there, doing all the things is like, it’s like doing a tap dance on speed. Right? It’s like, looking back when I was in it, it felt like what I had to do, right, it felt guided and what I had. So what I’ve done about three years ago, I started to stop that cyclone, the hurricane, it took me up, I feel like in some ways, I just started to rev down into a clear steady focus maybe beginning of this year. And I stopped doing all the things. And I was lucky to find a community of other people where you know, there’s seven figure entrepreneurs who are getting it done with conversations, one simple steady pulse of a message. And in one simple primary platform, I know people who have stopped sending emails altogether. And they’re still making revenue through real connection to real conversation, and the ability to focus on one thing and see what’s get working and how it could work better. And so that was a real eye opener for me. And that’s what’s been helping me why revenue has doubled the last two years, I have more successful clients, more clients that I love. And I’m doing more of what I want. And I have more team, and much more clarity. Not total clarity. Right? There’s there’s an important improvising that we do. But I’m clear about how I can help clients, I’m clear on my message. And I’m clear about what we do. And all that stuff that I created. Much of it now is included with my main primary offer, but I don’t focus on it right now. I don’t focus on the marketing and creating of it. And I’ve really honed in on talking to people and getting great people high level results.

Heather Pearce Campbell  43:35

Well, and part of what I’m wondering, because I think so many people can relate to your journey, right? is do we have to go through those parts of like doing all the things before we can have the level of clarity of honing in on the one thing or the primary offer?

Michelle Kopper  43:56

I don’t think we have to do all the things. I think that’s a little bit of a trap if there was something that I wish that I had thought of or known or realized before it would be to remember alignment. I don’t I we tend to think we have to get good at the things we’re not yes. And it’s much faster if we do the things we’re good at. Right? And that’s inspiration is more powerful than motivation. So inspiration is something I receive and if I’m in hustle strive I’m gonna get her done Make It Happen mode. God can get a word in edgewise if you go with the gods right like like I’m so busy in the hustle that I can’t hear ya intuition or that guidance? Yes, I did. One of the first investments I made I was so compelled by my intuition and so counterintuitive and insane that But I’m surprised it kind of didn’t catch my attention. But when I thought it was a mistake for a long time, I thought I had made a terrible mistake, because it was a huge investment. And it didn’t get me the return on investment that I thought it should have. And then I was told it would have taught me many other things even the act of making that investment. But looking back, I think I would invest in a small group high level, deeply aligned, like if somebody gives you goosebumps, hire them, if they’re getting you the results that you want, if they’re getting the results and promising that hire them think that’s what I would have done is how to smaller group higher level business coach very targeted,

Heather Pearce Campbell  45:45


Michelle Kopper  45:47

Well, somebody who can help me sift and sort from those choices. And those are easy to find. Right? Because the thing about coaching is that we can often help a lot of people do a lot of things. And so we just get in there with the coaching and we start processing all the things. That’s why we stay focused on using revenue and consistent implementation tracking, to say like, are we focused? Are we on mission and it’s a spiritual approach to that it’s not like well, did you make you know, it’s not like coffee’s for closers. But like, if you’re closing sales, something’s working. And then we can say, oh, what’s working? Right? So yes, simple. We, I suggest people pick three primary outreach platforms, one social media that you love, and that your clients are on, right? We need email, even though this fancy guy that I know doesn’t use it. Now he keeps talking about he’s gonna do it. He’s really good at direct outreach. Okay. And that’s the third thing. I think that we have forgotten in the age of funnels and the fantasy of launch mode, automated palletizing their income. No, it isn’t. You gotta bust your Negi to get those funnels, working right? Or pay a lot of money, and you might pay a lot of money, and they still might not work. So no offense, I love my digital marketers, God bless them. I would rather pay them all day long, and try and figure that out myself. But I did that early on. I was like, Alright, I’m gonna write some emails. You know, like, I can do this, which is great. I so I think it’s a balance.

Heather Pearce Campbell  47:26

Yeah, no, and I love even just the idea of simplify, like doing what you feel like you need to do but simplifying your strategy down right to where do you think the time? Yeah, one thing at a time? Where do you love to show up? Where are your people showing up? But also, the last point you made is really important, not forgetting the power of direct outreach of direct connection? Yeah. Especially today? Yes. Well, and I think, well, even when I think about my LinkedIn, like, one of my favorite strategies in my business, is my LinkedIn strategy. And it doesn’t have to work. Every time it doesn’t even have to work 50% of the time. I actually look at numbers, or every 100 connections, I may actually connect by phone, which is the whole goal of my strategy to get somebody connecting by phone I just say like, in real life, I want you to put me in your Rolodex like treat me like a human that you know, you know, something.

Michelle Kopper  48:31

And everybody’s like, Oh, my God. Oh my god. She called me three months later, she remembered me she’s talking to me, right? 

Heather Pearce Campbell  48:37

Like, that’s the whole point. And for me, there’s a book and I read it ages ago, but it’s what’s it called? Love is the killer app. Written by guy Tim. I always forget his last name. I’m sorry, Tim. It’s a really good book. No, no, no, not that. Anyways, we’ll find you. Yeah, go look it up love. But the whole it’s really just a little book focused on the power of connection. And the power of like, being willing to be very resourceful and connecting others creating new connections for people like with no end game in mind. No, like any business out of this or I need them hungry or me event right? It’s like genuine like, hello, genuine connection.

Michelle Kopper  49:30

And that’s what your marketing in your messaging is all day long. Your marketing and message you want to feel it’s an extension of the work you’re here to do. It makes those offers just the next natural step in the conversation. And that if you don’t make the invitation, you’re leaving people hanging. That’s how you want it to get you know, that’s the confidence. You want to have the clarity, you want to have the permission you want to have to just show up and serve all the way through. That’s the one thing not only do we clarify the platforms and the strategies, right? When you can clarify your offer. And I have a training called inspired offers. And it talks about, you know, there’s three level of offers, and how do you craft that in a way that’s deeply aligned, and personal. And then you got to pick one, and you got to stick with it. Right? So honing in and focusing on that. And being conscious and willing to have all of that busy work lead to actually people signing up. And even my most successful digital savvy, brilliant mentors and friends know that those big multi million dollar launches that aren’t happening the same way they used to, but they happen. There’s a team on the other end of those launches, talking to people, yes. And it’s so important. So honing in on that one primary thing is part of what I love to do. And I often do that we have some training, I do trainings in my Facebook group every week. And it comes down to it clarifies not only that your marketing is working, it helps you figure out what your marketing is about, it helps you figure out what to say. And it helps people get their head around. Who are you and what do you do?

Heather Pearce Campbell  49:46

Yeah, right, all such important pieces.

Michelle Kopper  50:58

And not only can you streamline your platforms and your message and all the places that you are and the types of content that you’re creating, you can take one message, one topic, one idea, you are three main silver bullets that you do in your fancy your mat, your bag of magic tricks, right. And you can talk about them again and again, in different ways in different contexts. And so I’m always saying we don’t want to simplify the content creation piece too. So because we forget this, and I’ve just been relearning it again. Our audience is catching a snippet of us here. And they’re like, if you’ve sat and listened to this whole podcast, let’s talk I love you. That’s amazing. If you did this while you’re working out, fantastic. It’s the exception, right? So we need to say sing the same song again. And again, people love to hear their favorite song and they associate that song with the person that is sharing it. And so your content can really doesn’t have to be as complicated and have as many whiz bangs in it as you might think. You can really steady share your message, one email can become your social media posts can become your life I that’s part of our formula that we teach. I’m really simplifying your content creation strategy, as well. And what makes it work? It leads to people signing up to clients and knowing how you’re getting there.

Heather Pearce Campbell  52:37

Well, I can just hear the size of relief from anybody listening, right? Like what simplified content creation strategy.

Michelle Kopper  52:47

When this for more than a year, you’ve probably got lots of content you can keep using right let’s let’s up love it. Let’s tweak it. Let’s pivot it a little bit. Let’s play with it. Right. It’d be hard to do on your own. So I’m not in any way. Minimizing the journey.

Heather Pearce Campbell  53:04

We’re all too close to our stuff. That’s right.

Michelle Kopper  53:08

What’s the third one? I’m forgetting right now. 

Heather Pearce Campbell  53:10

That grit and grief versus business? rhamnosus? Yeah, so.

Michelle Kopper  53:15

Your great business is connected to your great pneus and it’s inside of every single one of you. Oh, Italy.

Heather Pearce Campbell  53:21

100% Well, Michelle Kopper, I love you. I know you’ve got to run. I want to give this opportunity. So I was thinking, I don’t know if I’ve ever heard you seen another little song. Oh my gosh, I love it, would you?

Michelle Kopper  53:38

I totally Well, I think we have we have a gift and we’ll put that in the notes. It’s my framework for creating your next six figures of revenue from alignment love raishin and your own voice. And this is a song that came to me when I was in that stretch as an entrepreneur. I’ve been doing the hustle. It wasn’t working the way I wanted it to. And I was in another one of those pivots. And so sometimes songs come to me when I need to hear the most and this one goes like this, “God hear me, help me raise my voice, help me make the choice to share the gift I bring. God hear me, help me take a stand and walk with me hand in hand and I will sing. Help me be a champion for the silence, help me he fears that keep me small. God hears me and fills my words with power. He’s gonna where I will sing”. I sing because I can.

Heather Pearce Campbell  54:58

Totally goosebumps over here.You’re yes you can. Michelle, you’re amazing. For folks that are listening, hop over and check out the show notes page, we are going to share all of Michelle’s links, including her gift and any of your social media links. 

Michelle Kopper  55:13

If you’d like to follow Yeah, come play with us on Facebook and YouTube will show it.

Heather Pearce Campbell  55:18

Totally. If you are not inside of Michelle’s Facebook group, you need to get your buns over there. You can check all of those links out connect with Michelle and more at legalwebsitewarrior.com/podcast. Michelle, I adore you 

Michelle Kopper  55:32

And I adore you too. Thank you so much. I love being real people with real people. So do reach out and connect and I’m so glad we finally made it happen my friend.

Heather Pearce Campbell  55:41

Me too. Me too. Alright, big hugs.

Michelle Kopper  55:44

Thanks to you.

GGGB Outro  55:48

Thank you for joining us today on the Guts, Grit and Great Business™ podcast. We hope that we’ve added a little fuel to your tank, some coffee to your cup and pep in your step to keep you moving forward in your own great adventures. For key takeaways, links to any resources mentioned in today’s show and more, see the show notes which can be found at www.legalwebsitewarrior.com/podcast. Be sure to subscribe to the podcast and if you enjoyed today’s conversation, please give us some stars and a review on Apple podcasts, Spotify or wherever you get your podcast so others will find us too. Keep up the great work you are doing in the world and we’ll see you next week.