With Natasha Nurse, creator and co-host of the WokeNFree podcast, coach and podcast consultant. In this very important conversation, Natasha and I discuss her podcast that she shares as a black, liberal woman with her black, conservative husband and their willingness to tackle tough conversations on their podcast, their commitment to demonstrating dialogue on important topics and from different viewpoints, and what it means to be WokeNFree.

We also discuss what it takes to examine our paradigms, to unpack bias, and to take steps in our lives to contribute to equality and support the Black Lives Matter movement. Natasha brings her dynamic personality to this conversation where we also have some fun, learning more about her obsession with elephants, her desire to go to veterinary school, her pivot to law school (!), and how Natasha has folded her unique experiences involving law and sales into her current work and skill set to serve others. I can’t wait for you to get to know Natasha better and hear about her mission and work in the world!

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Biggest takeaways (or quotes) you don’t want to miss:

  • The power of creating content and using it as an agent of change.
  • “We wanna be the change we want to see in the world.”
  • “To be Woke and Free is to be educated.” 
  • “What we are doing today is going to impact the youth.” 

Check out these highlights:

2:30 What is the WokeNFree podcast? 

10:40 How Natasha has had to pivot in her career and business. 

12:00 Why anything you do in this world involves sales. 

13:15 “You never regret an education whether or not you end up working in that field or not.” 

15:40 What does it mean to be Woke and Free?

19:40 You don’t have to do everything, as long as you do something. 

20:30 Why it’s important to discuss taboo topics. 

23:50 “People have to be heard.”

34:40 What are the conversations that we should be having?

36:50 “I would love for everyone to take a look in the mirror and ask ‘what can I do today?’”

37:55 “Action that is planned and strategic now will have lasting effect.”

How to get in touch with Natasha:

On social media:






YouTube: https://bit.ly/2Y4KaJG


Grab a free strategy session to start a podcast. More information here.

WokeNFree is a podcast that refuses to leave anything off the table. Kahlil & Natasha Nurse talk about relationships, education, religion, politics, music, history, fashion, diversity in the media, entertainment, empowerment matters, life hacks, technology, cultural disparities in the world, and everything in between. Join the WokeNFree movement at WokeNFree.com.

Find more about Natasha here.

Imperfect Show Notes

We are happy to offer these imperfect show notes to make this podcast more accessible to those who are hearing impaired or those who prefer reading over listening. While we would love to offer more polished show notes, we are currently offering an automated transcription (which likely includes errors, but hopefully will still deliver great value), below.

GGGB Intro  00:00

Coming up today on Guts, Grit and Great Business. 

Natasha Nurse  00:04

So as content creators, we’re trying to educate, we’re trying to get people informed, we’re also trying to get you to think, and then also free you of any limitations and any hesitations that you have in life so that you can go out into the world. You can be your authentic self 100% of the time, so that life becomes a wonderful enjoyable experience, regardless of the ups and downs because you are informed, you are educated and you’re free of any limitations that you’re walking through.

GGGB Intro  00:34

The adventure of entrepreneurship and building a life and business you love, preferably at the same time is not for the faint of heart. That’s why Heather Pearce Campbell is bringing you a dose of guts, grit, and great business stories that will inspire and motivate you to create what you want in your business and life. Welcome to the Guts, Grit and Great Business podcast where endurance is required. Now, here’s your host, The Legal Website Warrior®, Heather Pearce Campbell.

Heather Pearce Campbell  01:09

All righty. Well, welcome. I am Heather Pearce Campbell, The Legal Website Warrior®. I’m an attorney and legal coach based here in Seattle, Washington. Welcome to another episode of guts, grit and great business. Today, I’m so excited to be connecting with Natasha nurse. So she we connected recently on LinkedIn, which is one of the main platforms that I use. And I was really excited to come across Natasha’s profile because she has such a strong overlap as far as her knowledge and the way that she serves people, with the people that I serve. And so I just thought we can have a really fun conversation. Natasha is a coach. She’s a speaker. She’s a content creator, and a podcast host. So I was super excited to talk with Natasha about her podcast. And one of the things we were just chatting about before we got started, was about the power of creating content and using content as an agent of change. And so I love that, and I have a feeling we’ve got a lot to dig into. So welcome, Natasha, I’m so happy to have you here with us today.

Natasha Nurse  02:20

Thank you for having me. Super excited to be here as well.

Heather Pearce Campbell  02:24

Yeah, absolutely. So let’s start off talking about your podcast. Right. So we were just chatting about it before we got started. Introduce us to your podcast.

Natasha Nurse  02:34

Yes, so welcome. Three is a podcast that I started with my husband is going to be we’re approaching the three year mark, which is really exciting. We started it in 2017 on my birthday. And the reason my husband and I started it is because we are both like very passionate people. And we have different perspectives. I’m like, hardcore liberal, he’s hardcore not. And we’ve always had these really dynamic conversations and, and we wanted to bring that to the forefront for a couple of reasons as in a podcast form a, we as as to, you know, young black professionals, we wanted to put out the messaging that like black love really exists. And is can be really dynamic, and really empowering and positive. We’ve been together this September will be 16 years, and we’ve been married. Now it will be Oh goodness, seven years. So it’s like we met each other freshman year at Penn State and been together ever since. And so we wanted to promote, like positive love and, you know, doing something together, that’s empowering as a couple. But then secondly, and I would say even most importantly, is the power of content in the sense that we were listening to people having really interesting conversations, things about lifestyle, about politics, about business, about anything you can think of, and not always maybe hearing the most educated or the most informed opinions out there in the world. Because, as you know, everyone can just turn on a camera press record and just kind of go at it with life. But you know, we really have to be careful about what we come to the table with because not everyone’s going to go and do their due diligence. Not everyone’s gonna go and research and figure out hey, you know, is what that guy said? Is that true? Is that real life? Or is that just like something in someone’s mind? And that’s a dangerous proposition. Because as we deal right now, we’re in the middle of a pandemic, we’re dealing with racial tensions that we’ve been dealing with since the beginning of this country and it’s, you know, now really kind of exploding and people need to understand, you know, what does Black Lives Matter really mean? What does what how do we really fight COVID Like there’s so many things that people have questions about and we just want we wanted to be a voice of, Hey, these are some resources. These are our opinion. This is why this is an informed opinion. Now you think about it and make your own informed opinion. And that’s what woke and free is really all about.

Heather Pearce Campbell  04:58

Oh, I love that. I feel like There’s so much to dig into there. I want to backtrack just a little bit to get to know you a little better. So I have five and it’s I think it’s so cool. First of all, that you and your husband are doing a podcast together like hats off to you. Because I know, we’re not would not go well for them.

Natasha Nurse  05:23

No, it can’t, it can’t be done. We I mean, we’re very different. And if you listen to the show, you’ll hear I’m like, all the way left on Sunday. And he’s all the way right or vice versa. But I think what’s important, especially in a marriage and building a relationship, the foundation of our relationship is honesty. And also we were together because we need to make each other better. So that’s through conversation that’s creating, and it’s also we want to be the change we want to see in this world, right? We both come from kind of broken families and, and we want to create some type of legacy where young kids can see, you know, wow, you can be with someone for 2030 years, wow, you can create something with someone. And so we just wanted to put that out there. But it’s I think, for us, it’s something we look forward to we have a new episode every Wednesday. So it’s like welcome free Wednesdays. And and it’s also, you know, kind of a testimony to our love story. And so just having that there, you know, like, it’s really it’s wild listening to yourself, and but it’s also so enjoyable to hear his voice or to hear his thoughts and be like, oh, and every time we have conversations, we’re like, Oh, we got to talk about this on the podcast. So it’s just it’s like a part. It’s ingrained in our life now. It’s really an incredible experience.

Heather Pearce Campbell  06:33

Yes, well, that’s amazing. I mean, kudos to you guys for making that work. And for exploring those conversations, even in the context of a podcast. I think that that could be really challenging to do. So I want to, I want to get into that. And I want people to know so I have this list of five things to know about Natasha. So you can tell me whether or not these are true, but it’s really cute says she is a Virgo. She is obsessed with elephants. She loves the library, film, television, audio books, podcasts and social media. She believes retail therapy is a real thing. And her life motto, learn something new and meet someone new every day.

Natasha Nurse  07:14

Yes, that’s 100% accurate.

Heather Pearce Campbell  07:19

I love it. No, I love these little details that make somebody actually come to life. So I’m curious. Talk to me about your obsession with elephants. When did that start?

Natasha Nurse  07:30

Yeah, so I’ve always been obsessed with animals. Like I went to Penn State. Actually, I was in a pre vet program. If you can tell me nothing at the age of like six or seven. I was like, I’m going to be a veterinarian and had I known what vets really pursue that life ambition. But nonetheless, you live and you learn. And for me, I think animals that is why I love animals that because I think that their love is sacred. And I think that human beings most that we don’t even deserve their love because it’s so unconditional, right people we love with conditions, and certain traditions and certain concepts and constructs in mind. But animals like my dog, he just literally wants to love me and there it doesn’t matter how I look. It doesn’t matter where I’m from, it doesn’t matter how I sound. It’s just I love you mom, right? And people unfortunately, I feel sometimes still love you the same way. And with elephants. They’re just such an interesting animal. I mean, they their massive size is just like just like, Oh my God, I want to give you a bear hug. You’re so adorable. I can’t. And then, you know, there is a matriarchal society. They have incredible memories, they can walk like 1000s of miles and to go back to an original spot how they mourn their dead. I mean, they’re just they’re sacred animals that I mean, there’s like an I forget if it’s an issue, I think it’s an issue isn’t there like an elephant God, or something? Like there’s so there and I also have several I have two elephant tattoos. So I plan to hopefully get more down the road but yeah, I just I think they’re magical. And like, if I could reincarnate into elephants, I’d like that would definitely be on the bucket list.

Heather Pearce Campbell  09:10

Well, I love that we are big nature fans here. In fact, we you know, after I record this episode, we’re headed out to find nature and, and we watch a lot of nature shows, especially Hello because of COVID. And you know, element elephants really are phenomenal. I mean, they are just extraordinary animals. So I love that I was hoping there was a backstory and I’m glad that it tied into your background about going to veterinary school. So my dad was actually a veterinarian. And that’s what Wow, well for and he practiced vet medicine for the first handful of years and we lived in the middle of Idaho at the time and so it became like a charitable endeavor for him to is in veterinary medicine. So he actually went bankrupt we lost their house and moved and he had to choose something else to do so. But he is a total animal lover. We grew up with animals, we all have a love for animals. So I relate very strongly to that. There was a time where I was reading the book series all animals great and small. was the guy that right there any ways it’s a book series that talks about veterinarians life and his experience with animals? So the other interesting thing is that you went to law school.

Natasha Nurse  10:29

Yes, yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. So what my career has been really interesting. So I mentioned I went to Penn, thinking I was going to be a vet. And then three weeks on campus, I saw tickets slaughtered in front of me, and it was probably one of the most traumatic experiences of my life. And I knew at that moment that this was definitely not my jam. And I needed to pivot and I needed to kind of go a different direction. So started thinking about things and I stumbled upon like taking some business and law classes, and I loved it because I as a Virgo. Most Virgos know, they love what we can fall in a couple of categories. Some of us like really love structure in order, some of us not so much. But I definitely I am all about, like, I think a checklist, I think, and I’m always like, Okay, guys, we’re having a meeting, what are we doing next, like, I love order and structure, my dad was in the British Air Force. And so I also am influenced strongly by being military to nature that way. And I loved it. So I applied to New York Law School I got in and then of course, perfect timing, the economy crashed. In 2008, I had to pivot again, but it was fine. I mean, I graduated graduated Kumada. I loved my experience there. But the the market, for those of you in New York who know there’s a lawyer, every square foot, you go, and I have to change it up. So ironically, my first job was in sales. And I was doing cold calls sailing, sales is very interesting. But actually, again, one of the most pivotal things I’ve ever learned, because anything you do in this world involves sales, you have to know how to present and how to sell yourself or a product or a service. And it set me up for going down a non traditional path, I got into education, legal sales, and and then kind of was able to branch off and do more entrepreneurial consulting, podcasting, media creation path. And I would say that my legal background, I mean, I am you know, so like a New York licensed attorney, I would say, you know, it helps it helps formulate how I view the world, how I articulate how confident and how confident I am in a conversation. And then also just like thinking about the consequences of parameters, right, because lawyers were all about, like, what are what are the the, the things that can go wrong in a scenario? And and it’s hard because you get into business, or whatever you eat most people, I don’t think think about the consequences enough. But that’s all lawyers think about. We’re like, what is the liability? What are and it’s been helpful, because as you start new ventures, I can always kind of tap in that that part of my brain and say, Okay, what are the legal parameters in a way that maybe other people wouldn’t?

Heather Pearce Campbell  13:12

Yes. Well, it’s absolutely true. And I know that I mean, for most people that I talked to, you’d never regret an education, whether or not you end up working in that field or not. But it’s fascinating that you’ve, you’ve got the sales background as well, right? So many people that I’ve talked to recently, and when I asked them, How did you get started down the entrepreneurial path, the number one response has been sales, they learned sales. Right. And that allowed them to create a business and like singularly that was the thing that allowed them to know out to know how to go out and create a business. And so, you know, there’s the saying that, you know, we are all in the business of sales, we just happened to be selling, right, our particular thing, but the business really, we’re all sales experts or not, and marketing people first and we just happened to have business in a different category. But so. So talk to us about where you’re at now. You’re in Arizona, you have been running this podcast for three years. I love that. Congratulations, by the way to talk to us about what you’re up to currently.

Natasha Nurse  14:25

Yeah, absolutely. So with the podcast, it’s been great because we’ve we recently we’re hitting our year mark of being we changed our hosting. So now we’re on the pod bean platform. So shout out to all the other people who host their podcast on pod bean is a great platform, a really great resource. So I think for us now next is we are wanting to dip into other forms of content that that brought in the brand. So we’re working on a book and getting that out. We’re working on wanting to produce and create some film content because for us woken free is definitely more than a podcast. It’s a way of living We want it, to use our voice and our creativity to create content that makes people think that entertains you, and then also inspires you to go out and do the same in your own life that whether it’s how you communicate how you consume content and or how you create content. So that’s the next step, just kind of really broadening and taking welcome free, as wide and as far as possible.

Heather Pearce Campbell  15:24

Well, I love that. And I think you’re right. It’s it’s more than a podcast, it’s a way of life. It’s a it’s a message or even just a principle that you live by. And I think you’ve already touched on it. But describe again, for people who are listening, what does it mean to be woken free?

Natasha Nurse  15:42

Yeah, absolutely. So for us, we came up with the the word woke and free by the idea that like, in life, you know, there’s no guidebook, there’s no, there’s no, you know, instruction list that’s provided to you to figure out who you’re supposed to be and what you’re supposed to think and how you’re supposed to act. But you have to kind of go on this journey and learn something new and meet new people every single day, to figure out what that what this whole experience is going to be for you. And for us to be woken free is to be educated and to open up your eyes. And it’s to understand when something’s wrong, and when it’s time for you to do something, either on your own or through your support. But we all have a responsibility in making this world a better place. And you can do it to your checkbook, you can do it through your time, you can do it through activism, whatever it is, but we all have to do something to make this world, the world. We want it to be for ourselves. And of course, more importantly, for the ones that come after us. Because we’re what we’re doing today is going to impact the youth. And we have to think about that. Now we can’t just say, Oh, it’s someone else’s problem. Because these all children are here because of adults decision. We need to do the right thing. And we have to take care of that. And, and freedom to be free in life is to live on your own terms, unapologetically. I think for me, I’ve always prided myself on being Natasha. And you know, whether you love me or not, you know, I can only be myself because everyone else is taken. So I try. And my husband is to say we try to be honest, just 100% Because at the end of the day, the people who will love and respect that will rock with you, and they’ll rock with you for life. And the ones who don’t, they’re like, Oh, that’s not my flavor. Cool. Well, there’s someone else out there for you. So as content creators, we’re trying to educate, we’re trying to get people informed, we’re also trying to get you to think, and then also free you of any limitations, and then any hesitations that you have in life, so that you can go out into the world, you can be your authentic self 100% of the time, so that life becomes a wonderful enjoyable experience, regardless of the ups and downs, because you are informed, you are educated, and you’re free of any limitations that you’re walking through.

Heather Pearce Campbell  17:56

Hmm. Well, I love that and the earlier in life, we can learn that lesson about what it really means to be ourselves and to shed any, you know, the ideas that we carry around that came from other people about who we should be, and it’s just a natural part of life, we all end up with a few of those stuck to us, right? It’s our job to take those off and peel them off. Well, it’s you know, and I love the I love the framing behind that and the fact that it’s on each of us to become educated and informed I was listening to something recently, especially in light of black lives matter what’s happening in the news, you know, people are and from all walks of life, you know, really experiencing some major shifts right now and what’s happening and it’s can be overwhelming for me as a white person to figure out. Like, I know, I want to play an active role and do the right thing and be you know, the kind of person who shows up even in the tough times and, and yet, as a mom of two little people, somebody running a business, it’s really hard for me to figure out how do I balance it all? How do I prioritize? Do all the things and I there was somebody I was listening to actually on somebody else’s podcast and he said, Look, to everybody listening, you all don’t have to do everything, but you all have to do something. And I just thought, oh, you know if we can just take that every day and be like, Okay, I don’t have to do everything. But I do have to do something. It makes it feel much more doable. Much more like okay, I got this like we can figure this out. This is a path that we can go down and I can play my role and do my part because I can get really overwhelmed as a mom. I mean, I think we were talking even right before I went live on this interview like watching the news. As a mom to two little people, like I can get easily overwhelmed, because I’m also a doer, I’m a huge action taker, and I have a lot of activation energy. And, you know, I can get into the place of like, running too many directions or doing too much and also worrying that I’m not doing enough, right. And so, you know, one of the things that I love that you sent over in, you know, your summary and your your bio, is this question of why is it important to discuss taboo topics? We you share with us a little bit about that, either in the context of your podcast, or in the context of, you know, what’s happening right now with current events?

Natasha Nurse  20:45

Yeah, absolutely. So it’s important to talk about taboo topics, because we can’t ignore them, right? They can’t be that elephant in the room, we, especially as you know, when you are a parent, is your responsibility, right? To try to make sure that your kids feel comfortable, and that they know that they can come to you about anything, including the, you know, the not so easy conversations to have. And as adults, you know, I would say, as a black person growing up, there were things that were said in my household or things that I’ve experienced, that I didn’t always feel free to be able to discuss. And it’s and it haunts you, and it doesn’t, it doesn’t make life easier, it makes it harder, because it feels like then you’re not woken Fran that you’re living with Mastodon right. So I have to be this person for school, right, I grew up in, I grew up in Lower East Side, Manhattan, and Stuyvesant Town, anyone who knows that area, and I was, you know, one of the few black kids in my school. And it wasn’t always easy. And I didn’t really have a lot of friends and and I didn’t have spaces to be able to talk about, you know, how I was feeling when people commented on my size, or my color or my hair. And it got harder. As I got older, I was grateful to go to Penn State and be able to meet my husband and to actually dive into black identity because my parents come from a Caribbean background that my mom and dad are from Jamaica. And so even within the the black conversation, there’s it’s not just one black narrative, right, right. People from Africa, African Americans, then there’s Caribbean black people and how how your blackness is like, it’s a unique and individual narrative. And in the household. You know, there’s certain things that you know, within a Caribbean household that might be said that might not be setting an African or might not be in an African American household. So like, our podcast is also just like a wonderful, wonderful reprieve to be able to talk about colorism. We talked about that, and how that’s affected us and how people don’t like to talk about skin color and how they’re people. It’s shown that people you know, if you’re lighter skinned, you can have easier opportunities, or it’s easier to do this, that and what it’s like on the inverse when you’re darker skin or talking about sexuality and talking about exploitation and things like that, where maybe you don’t feel comfortable talking about that at the job, but these conversations still have to be had, because you have thoughts on that and your voice matters. So for us, we’ve also thought of our podcast and use our podcast, as an outlet of you know, even if we can’t talk to anyone else about this, we can at least talk to each other and our marriage about this. But we can also have an educated and, and thought provoking conversation in media, where if other people similarly have ideas and thoughts about this, they too can join the conversation because there aren’t enough safe spaces to just be yourself. And that’s unfortunate, but with Black Lives Matter and and the movement kind of refusing to be to stop being heard, I think more and more spaces and art like corporate America, or they’re gonna have to start to listen, they’re gonna have to start to hear what is it like to be a black professional? What does it like to be a Latina professional, what’s it like to be a trans professional, like, people have to be heard and their voices have to matter in not just on an individual or community basis, but also in their, in their work lives in, in in their marriages, like across the board? So, you know, taboo topics exist, whether we want them to not whether we want them to or not. But what do we do about them? How do we address them? And how do we make sure that people don’t feel so alone? Because for many, many years before I met my husband, I felt very, very alone and not feeling like I had anyone to talk to and it’s a rough way to grow up that way.

Heather Pearce Campbell  24:26

Yeah, well, it’s, I mean, there’s so much we could dig into around that conversation. One of the things that I’m really grateful for right now. So we live in North Seattle, and there’s quite a bit of cultural diversity in the school systems that we’re in. Not always like one of the things I remember when we went to actually explore schools for my son and he’s special needs. And so there were a variety of things that we were looking for, but I remember going to one school that came like highly rated, but I showed up and it’s It was all white people. And they had a requirement that but that both parents had to spend, like 40 hours a week, each school year, working out the school or contributing to the school. And like the first thought that I had is like this is automatically going to exclude people below certain incomes. And there’s going to be right. And it automatically explained really quickly, like why there was not a lot of diversity, at least from my perspective, what I was seeing, and I came home and I told my husband, like, that’s not a fit for us, like I, having seen where we live, like one of the things that I care a lot about, including from a public education standpoint is that my kids are involved in a school that embraces diversity, and teaches it and open conversations about it. And so one of the things I’m really grateful for is we ended up in one of those schools, and that they’ve been very vocal and sending daily emails and resources for parents. And I look at at what’s happening right now. And I contrast it with how I grew up, which is pretty much that race wasn’t talked about at all. Like it was a non, it was a non conversation, even though we were aware of it as kids, it’s a little bit that I think our least I can speak for my, my perception of what my parents generation as white people were going through is like, Oh, if we if we don’t talk about race, maybe that’s what doesn’t make us a racist. Right? Like, if we don’t talk about it, and we don’t address it, and we don’t act like it’s a thing. It’s a little bit like, you know, folks who say, Oh, I just don’t see color. Well, no, that’s not true. We all see, we all see reality, we might experience it differently. But, you know, I look at just kind of the absence of conversation that happened from my growing up experience. And I just don’t want any part of that for my children moving forward.

Natasha Nurse  27:03

Yeah, I and I commend you for even having to wokeness and their consciousness to be able to identify that because a lot of people even fail to look at their own life experience and say, hey, you know, how many different like, how many people did I speak to? That didn’t look like me, that came from different backgrounds. And I think that’s a conversation we all can have as a black person. I don’t think it’s okay to just say you only explored your own community because there’s so many different cultures and communities in this world, you know, me and my husband talking about the fact that we wish that like, you know, for some communities, there’s like a pilgrimage where you can go to like Israel or, or Mecca, you know, like, and you can have more your your, I wish in America that we had like a pilgrimage that required kids starting at like the age of 12, to like, travel to a different continent every year up until you’re 18, so that you interact with people from different cultures from different backgrounds, because people are remarkable. And people are so innocent and interesting. And we we live in a bubble. And when we think about news, we think about our local news, and then maybe our national news, but like, I care about what’s going on in God, I care about what’s going on in Australia, I care about what’s going on in China, like I want to where we’re one race, the human race, on one planet, we need to think about ourselves from a global perspective, because otherwise we silo ourselves, and then we devalue each other. I mean, even when you think about what’s going on with police brutality, the problem, one of the things I think is happening is a lack of training, lack of understanding, but there’s also a lack of connection in our community, right, it’s a lot easier when you don’t know them, when you have no connection to that community. But if cops and law enforcement were integrated in our communities where they know Uncle John, and they know Nancy down the block, and they know Amy across the street, it’s gonna be a lot harder to put your knee on that net that person’s neck. If we have to get more connected. I think as I’ve gotten older, I think we as a society are getting more and more disconnected. And I don’t blame social media. I know people like to go that route. No. That’s just I think it’s it’s I think it made it easier, right? It definitely made it easier for us to just like send a text or send a Facebook message, but not really sit there and think about who how are we serving each other? How are we serving ourselves? How are we integrated in our society? Like when we moved to Arizona? We’re like 106 degrees, it’s so hot, but you’re single neighbor come out. No, no, right? Like we’ve been here for over a year. And we know any neighbors right? And that’s scary that you can live in a community people are totally fine, not knowing who’s next door and and that is symptomatic of a bigger problem in the country.

Heather Pearce Campbell  29:45

Well, and that’s a really, I mean, that example, you know, hits home for me because I grew up in a smaller community. Right. So Walla Walla, it’s a small town, eastern side of the state. And you know, we knew most people, at least it felt that way, right? We roam the neighborhood, like it’s a totally different growing up experience than what my kids are having now in Seattle. And we got on our bicycles, and we knew all of our neighbors. And, you know, we ding dong their doorbells and ran and hid you know, it was all the things and but in Seattle, I find like, you have to be much more intentional about going out of your way to watch for and connect with and find your neighbors because it is so easy to pass each other at odd time. And like literally never see anybody you know. But it’s still on us to be part of creating community. And the other thing I love about your point of taking on a global perspective is I really I agree with you so strongly that if people had the chance, or created the opportunity to do more traveling to engage with people from other cultures that would really broaden their perspective. I remember when I was in high school, I wanted to travel, right, I just thought man for kids. And and we had a sister High School setup with a school in Japan. And then there was, yeah, there was some other classes because several languages were taught at our high school, right? So there was Spanish, there was French, there was Japanese, and I was in both French and Spanish. And the reason why I was taking Spanish is because we had quite a few Spanish speaking students, right, we it’s an agricultural center in eastern Washington. And so we had quite a few Spanish speaking students. And I remember just feeling the weight of like being in school with these kids and wondering what it’s like not to speak English, and be trying to assimilate trying to go to school, I thought, you know, when I can’t fix many problems, but I can take Spanish and I can try to learn how to communicate with kids that I’m in school with. And so I added Spanish, and then I ended up long story short, getting myself onto several school trips that went to, like Japan twice, I went to Japan during high school, to France, France, and Spain. And even that early experience, because my parents said, if you can save up your money and pay for it yourself, you can go and so I did. But I remember leaving, I remember getting to the end of those trips and feeling like grief, like getting back onto a bus. Like I remember spending two and a half weeks there, right? And you’re with your with a host family. And you’ve been in this community of kids at this high school. And I remember like, sitting with the profound understanding that I may not see these people ever again. And it was really like this deep sense of grief anyways. And since that time, like there was a time in college, I went to Mexico, and I lived there and taught English for a time. And, you know, similarly, being able to see the way that people live and work and show up. I mean, I just I have so much respect for, you know, those communities that I got to interact with and be a part of for a time. And I think the true is same here in our own neighborhoods in our own cities across the US if we could physically be in an among people that you know, and have more exposure, we would all be better off.

Natasha Nurse  33:33

Absolutely, yeah. But at least that that’s a wonderful context for you to be able to know how you can shape and design how your kids experience this world as they come up, you know, you’ll think about, you know, what, what it was like to go to Japan, what it was like to go to Mexico, what it was like to go to France and say, you know, you’re you’re this age, you’re going to do this, you know, and so that’s a wonderful, like tradition that you can actually start and make that culturing, not just a dream, but a reality for your own family and hopefully, you know, create kind of a generational trend there.

Heather Pearce Campbell  34:04

Yeah. Well, I mean, it’s just it’s the case that, you know, we all we all can’t do everything but we all can do something right. And when it comes to awareness and connection and cultural diversity and just opening up our perspectives, there’s a lot truthfully, that we all can do. So what are you know, as your experience right now, as a black woman in the midst of what we’re experiencing on a national level, you know, on lots of like, little pockets locally to like Seattle has been all over the news for I mean, seems like months now for a variety of reasons. But what are conversate? What are the conversations that you wish everybody was having? What are the conversations are some of the topics for example, you and your husband tackled together that you would want to bring to the listeners of this podcast?

Natasha Nurse  34:59

Yeah, actually That’s an incredible question, I would say, the simple question of like, what can I do? Right? And what and what are you going to do? So yes, you might not be able to do everything at once. But like you accurately said, we can all do something. So you know, when it comes to things that you love things that are in your wheelhouse, things that, you know, you’re good at, how can you help with the the movement, right? So there’s so many different things within, you know, and I would say, for the Black Lives Matter movement, just so everyone’s on the same page. For us, there are at least for me, how I interpret it is, it’s not about saying that all lives don’t matter. It’s about saying that black lives are currently threatened, curse range or not, can go can go outside and feel like they might not be able to come home versus that’s what’s currently, and has been the case for black people in this country for very long time. So that’s why the Black Lives Matter movement. It’s not the antithesis of life, it’s the the proactive focus on protecting black lives. So what can we all do to help black lives, so it depends on again, what’s in your wheelhouse. So if you’re in a corporation, and you know, there isn’t a mentorship program for people, for young people, or college students, then maybe you might want to start that or talk about how you can be a part of making that happen. And making sure that people from different backgrounds, come into that mentorship program, learn about engineering, learn about business, learn about finance, whatever space you’re in, you know, having diversity is a good thing. It’s a it’s a part of having innovation, and it’s also a part of how you can grow businesses and practices. So that’s one thing, some people maybe it’s more about a financial thing, and you’re like, you know, what, the school doesn’t have the proper equipment for the kids or the you know, whatever level it is. So, you know, there’s different things we can do. So I think I would love for everyone to just take a good look at themselves in the mirror and say, What can I do today? Not I don’t know what to do. But what can I do? So what do I like to do? I like to give money, I like to give my time, I like to start initiatives, I like to write, right i if you’re a media person, if you’re a journalist, have you covered an article around Black Lives Matter? Are you providing content around positive black news, right, like there’s so many different outlets, things to do to promote positive black narrative and positive black things? Regardless, for businesses, you know, how many how many people who want to support black businesses, that would be incredibly important at this time, right? Especially with COVID. Businesses are closing left and right. Yeah, businesses would love and welcome that type of support. So I think the biggest thing is, what can I do? And what am I willing to do and create that action plan for yourself today, not like next week, two months from now, today, because action that is, is planned and strategic and formidable. Now, we’ll have lasting effect later. But we have to, we have to do something now. And we can’t just let it go under the rug. And for those who are in law enforcement, I would just for those who listened to the show, I would just encourage you to take a good look at how you’re viewing people. And what exactly is the issue for some people, right? Because there’s some people who seem to have the intent to want to harm and if you’re in law enforcement, one would think that you’re in the you should be in this game, because you have an in a deep motivational spirit about wanting to protect others. And so I would ask, Do black lives deserve less protection than others? Right? And if so, why do you think that and really explore it because sometimes we have certain ideas and, and biases. And that’s it is what it is? It’s a it’s a part of this human journey in this experience. But I ask that people really take a look and say, you know, cuz some people have even take offense to the term Black Lives Matter. And it’s like, you’re offended by that one community matters. Why, right? I’m not even gonna get emotional on that. I just, I want to let’s dive deep there, right? Like, because people have to understand if that if that offends you, then there’s something else going on there with you. And it’s important to dive deep and cut to that because maybe you grew up in a household where black people weren’t spoken to well, of maybe you grew up in a household where the only time you saw black people were when they were being arrested on cops, right? Like, there’s a lot of contextual things that go into what it means to be a human. I mean, even when I went to Penn State, I was surprised that like, people, a couple people came up to me and said, You know, I’ve never met a black person. You guys aren’t so bad, right? Like, you know, and that’s,

Heather Pearce Campbell  39:41

That’s totally crazy.

Natasha Nurse  39:41

And I was attacked. You know, I was called the N word at the age of six. So I’ve experienced racism and bigotry and people just, you know, hating me for something that I cannot change and and so, you know, okay, But like, Why? Why does my life matter last year? Like matter more? And why can’t we live in, in harmony because I think also with the movement, it’s not about, you know, I’ve never heard any black person say I want special treatment, we just want treatment. I don’t want to be treated specially, I just want to be treated equally so that I get the same mortgage rate as someone else I get I get shown the same houses as someone else and not showing the hood or the you know, the disenfranchised areas. When I apply for a job, I am considered for the same salary. I don’t know it’s the same. It’s just equality. And that is a statement that branches across all races all Creed’s all nationalities, all sexual orientations. Like, we just need equality in this world, people can rise as they rise based on their own merit. But we owe it to ourselves to give people a fighting chance. And that’s only through equality.

Heather Pearce Campbell  40:54

That’s right. Well, and I think that you’ve touched on something that is critical to this conversation, which is that people can’t begin to do the work, they can’t begin to make even the small changes, if they’re not willing to look, they’re not willing to look at themselves or question, Wait, do I have this opinion? Or do I have this belief somewhere, even if it’s not something I intentionally created? Like, is it there. And in my experience, and I’ve still got a lot to learn about how to have this dialogue with other white people in a way that does not cause extreme triggering, and just closing off to the conversation, right, but it’s my work to do. And I’m clear that it’s all of our work to do. But I think a huge part of it is just a willingness to look a willingness to sit with like, what is rooted inside? From a belief perspective, you know, what did I get fed as a child or as a young adult that has led to me holding certain beliefs or having a certain paradigm about the world? And it’s only until we look at that? Can we change it? Can we dig in and actually do the work that comes next?

Natasha Nurse  42:09

Absolutely. And that for everyone, right? Whether you’re white, Hispanic, Asian, Black, we all have these deep rooted biases and ideas and constructs that are detrimental to other communities, which ultimately means it’s detrimental to ourselves, because because we’re viewing people through those lenses, then we’re not really seeing people, we’re seeing those those stigmas. We’re seeing those stereotypes, and it’s Stoelting. It’s holding us from being able to have positive and amazing relationships with people that don’t look like us that don’t sound like us. And it’s making the world a worse place. Because we can’t connect because we’re like, Nope, that person Oh, they see, oh, this person does this and this, you know, and it’s like, no, it’s a human being judge everyone based on their creed, not the color of their skin. Right? Who are you as a person? If that person is a swindler, okay? Then don’t give them your money. But don’t assume muddler because of how they look or how they sound or where they come from.

Heather Pearce Campbell  43:07

That’s right. No, that’s right, we have to check ourselves. And I it was interesting, because I had an an event happen in a parking garage, and I later was trying to unpack it with my sister because basically I was walking you know, as a single woman, I’m, it’s a large parking garage attached to like a hospital complex, and I had an appointment to get to. And so I was walking through and this man, right, this black man steps out and asked me a question, Hey, can I get your help? And immediately I was a little bit on edge. And, you know, even later, I was like, okay, you know, was I on edge because I was alone, it was a parking garage, and I would have been on edge regardless was an edge because it was a black man, like I really was trying to understand. And I slowed myself down in that moment. And I just thought, okay, regardless of whatever internal, you know, anything I’ve got going on, and I later I think it was just the fact that I was alone and being approached in a parking garage was just felt kind of kind of dark and enclosed, right. But I slowed down and I thought, what would I do? Whether this was a white man or a black man or any person, what would I do? First of all, to make sure that safety is a priority, right? It turns out he was asking me about how to connect have a baby see the safety seat in his car, right? And so my first thought is like, I wouldn’t follow a white man to his car, right? Like regardless. And so, I just said, Well, hey, can you show me the Can you show me the child seat? Do you have the instructional pamphlet right? And he got them both out and I had him bring him to the front of the car so that I wasn’t going anywhere near the doors. Right, but we worked through it and it turns out like he didn’t know how to connect the child seat. We looked through it and We got it sorted out. And I said, I think this is what you’re looking for. And, you know, anyways, we worked through it. And he was like, great, that helps so much. It turns out he was a new dad and had never connected the car seat before. And they can be crazy. Anybody who’s ever tried to connect a car seat like, they really I mean, there’s some terrible statistic about like, 80% of people get those wrong, like, there’s a reason you’re supposed to. Yeah, it’s really, it’s crazy how complicated they could make the whole contraption, but you are supposed to take you especially if you’re a new parent, you’re supposed to take that child seat and like drive your car to one of the checkpoints where they will check it and make sure that it’s all secure and set up the right way. But, you know, I just like that, that later, I still was thinking about that. And I’ve tried, you know, in my own way to be very aware of like, what is my initial reaction? And how, how do I respond in a way that is truthfully and aligned with my values?

Natasha Nurse  46:00

Yeah, that’s incredible. And thank you for sharing that. Because that’s like, that’s not easy to share. Right. And, and I commend you for, again, diving deep, because myself included as unfortunately, yeah, we live in a world where, you know, safety is not guaranteed. So when you’re by yourself, it is scary, and it shouldn’t be, but unfortunately, this is the world that we live in. And people you know, do have bad intentions. Thankfully, he was just trying to get his life together. You know that. And that’s great that you were able to help him because some people probably would have said no, they would have assumed he was trying to harm them in some way. And it’s like, Nope, just trying to be a dad.

Heather Pearce Campbell  46:43

Right, right. Yes. Well, I just thought, you know, if I could slow down, because I remember pausing in the middle of the garage and just thinking, Okay, if it’s about safety, then what would I do to keep myself safe? Is there a way that I can help him and still stay safe, right? So I thought, Okay, I’m going to stay towards the center or the middle of the parking garage and not go to the back end, where it’s darker behind the cars, you know what I mean? So it was just basic, yeah. But, you know, I was really grateful actually, for the opportunity to examine that in myself. And also, in the moment, take a proactive role and be like, okay, just by observing maybe each time I can be more aware and make sure that anytime I’m really interacting with anybody, I’m just staying aware and really taking steps and responding in a way that’s consistent with my values, and not something that’s been ingrained by media or our culture or the other messages that we get sent that are massively wrong. Mm hmm. Absolutely. Well, I you know, so much of when you were speaking today, I can totally hear the coach in you. So I know that you’re a coach, I know that you’re a speaker, share with us for people that want to get in touch that want to learn more about you. And by the way, if you’re listening, I will be sharing all of Natasha’s information in my show notes. So you can visit those at Legal website warrior.com forward slash podcast. So Natasha, I will share anything that you would like to share there but to how do you like to connect with people you want me to send them to your podcasts you want them to get in touch if they’re interested in knowing more?

Natasha Nurse  48:21

I think that I think that would be phenomenal. I think if anyone is interested in woken free living as well, then just go to wokenfree.com so that’s W-O-K-E-N-F-R-E-E.com and there you’ll be able to get our social media handles if you want to reach us via email wokenfree@gmail.com. And then yes, outside of the podcast I coach I speak and so that’s on my dresser mate platform so but that you can you can find me at dressing room the number eight calm, but I think the podcast, I think for people that they’re listening to you, their their podcast fans, I think that this is a conversation that hopefully will make them think laugh and come back for more Wednesday. So I hope to hear people on the show and have them you know, share their comments. And, you know, just be open, right? Just open to this incredible conversation we’ve had and just be open to more conversations. The more we talk, the more we think the more that we can grow and really enhance with people.

Heather Pearce Campbell  49:20

Yes. Well, I love that I so appreciate your voice. I’m so glad you took the time to join me today. I know you’ve got a free gift to share with the audience and it’s around starting a podcast. Do you want to share for a minute on that?

Natasha Nurse  49:35

Yeah, absolutely. So if they go to welcome free.com there is a tab that says want to start a podcast. So if other people are thinking about hey, you know I have a message to share with the world. We do free kind of strategy sessions. So feel free once they go to welcome free.com they’ll fill out a contact form which will allow us to get in touch with you based on what you’re what you’re looking to do, I think and we just recently had an episode about like, should you start a podcast so it’s I think you is a podcast for everyone? Not necessarily we talk about that in art and episode 48. So definitely check that out. But I would say if you’re open to if you just want to even have just a strategy session session on, what do you have to do to get started from a tool perspective, from a social media build out perspective, from a calendaring perspective, just the strategy and the the practical ness of what it means to do this, because as you know, there’s no easy feat. It’s a labor of love, but it’s so worth it. And you’ve definitely made my day with this conversation.

Heather Pearce Campbell  50:33

Well, thank you, Natasha. I’m so happy to have had you on the show. I will share that link as well for people that are interested in a podcasting strategy session. I highly recommend you connect with Natasha, if you’re listening, Natasha, I’m grateful for you. I hope we get the chance to connect again.

Natasha Nurse  50:50

Absolutely. Thank you so much.

Heather Pearce Campbell  50:52

Thank you.

GGGB Outro  50:57

Thank you for joining us today on the Guts, Grit and Great Business podcast. We hope that we’ve added a little fuel to your tank, some coffee to your cup and pep in your step to keep you moving forward in your own great adventures. Four key takeaways links to any resources mentioned in today’s show and more see the show notes which can be found at legalwebsitewarrior.com/podcast. Be sure to subscribe to the podcast and if you enjoyed today’s conversation, please give us some stars and a review on Apple podcast, Spotify or wherever you get your podcast so others will find us to keep up the great work you’re doing in the world and we’ll see you next week.