With Yifat Cohen, founder of YCN Media Group and host of the “I’m That Geek” show, one of the first 100 invited to Google+, where she built her entire brand on a platform that most people didn’t care about. Join us for this conversation about how to increase engagement on social media, to build instant trust, create connection and engagement with your audience, and create raving fans and hungry buyers. How do you cut through the noise online? With everyone going bigger online or scrambling to get online in the midst of covid, how do you stand out? What do we regularly do wrong in our online marketing and relationship-building efforts?

We dig into what it takes to really build connection and trust, and how to do it in a way that also translates into saving time on content creation and marketing! Yifat shares what she has learned about online marketing, content creation, and building authority and community (from her time working for Google flying around the world teaching businesses and their teams how to use Google+ to translating that into her own online business and online authority platform).

Yifat shares with us the model that she teaches and implements for her clients: the anti-funnel. This is how she helps others cut through the noise, avoid the potholes, and develop trust and connection from the start. We also discuss the conundrum of building your business on 3rd party platforms, and some alternatives that Yifat is experimenting with for continued relationship building with her clients.

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Biggest takeaways (or quotes) you don’t want to miss:

  • “We forget that relationships take time.”
  • If you are selling high ticket items, it’s not going to be an impulse buy. It’s going to be a relationship buy.
  • Why communities are moving outside of social media.

Check out these highlights:

2:20 “In our overly connected world we are starving for connections.” 

7:30 Where people struggle online. 

9:00 Why people don’t trust anyone online anymore and how to cut through that. 

11:28 Why communities outside of social media are the next best thing.

13:00 What happened when LinkedIn shut off Yifat’s account.

17:50 Flipping the anti-funnel and moving towards trust.

25:50 What is the anti-funnel?

32:00 It’s okay to pick one social media focus.

How to get in touch with Yifat:

On social media: 



Grab a copy of 4 Easy Ways to Getting Raving Fans and Hungry Buyers (even if you suck at social media and hate selling) here.

Yifat is one of the first 100 people to be invited to Google+, she has built her entire brand with one show on one platform that most people didn’t even care about. Google hired Yifat and flew her around the world to train their own team and speak at their offices (which they hardly let a non-Googler do).

She worked with the city of Austin, was featured on radio shows, big stages, and live events… all because Yifat understands one thing: in our overly connected world, we are starving for connection. And when we provide that connection we are rewarded with referrals, loyalty, and money. Yifat teaches her clients how to increase engagement on social media to build trust, confidence and connection.

Her clients have generated over $250,000 in 10 days from a dead list because of her engagement strategy. Others have made over $100,000 in that same span of time, while others saw 40% conversions and high ticket sales from cold audience.

Today Yifat provides that service to companies who have more leads than clients and helps them add an additional 10%-20% to their bottom line without paying for more leads.

Learn more about Yifat here.

Imperfect Show Notes

We are happy to offer these imperfect show notes to make this podcast more accessible to those who are hearing impaired or those who prefer reading over listening. While we would love to offer more polished show notes, we are currently offering an automated transcription (which likely includes errors, but hopefully will still deliver great value), below. 

GGGB Intro 0:00
Coming up today on guts, grit and great business.

Yifat Cohen 0:04
And we forget that relationships take time. And now, especially if you’re selling high ticket items, $500, $700 $1,000, it’s not going to be an impulse buy. So you have to build the trust in the relationship. And the challenge with that is that so many people have been burnt already, through different scam products, you know, everybody got a PDF, or everybody has a free offer that you can go in and do something. And so you’re not just competing with your competitors, you’re competing with everybody online that’s trying to grab someone’s attention. And the only way that someone will pay attention to you is if you matter, right? If you made a difference, if you actually created some kind of an emotional connection.

GGGB Intro 0:48
The Adventure of entrepreneurship and building a life and business you love, preferably at the same time is not for the faint of heart. That’s why Heather Pearce Campbell is bringing you a dose of guts, grit and great business stories that will inspire and motivate you to create what you want in your business and life. Welcome to the Guts, Grit & Great Business podcast where endurance is required. Now, here’s your host, The Legal Website Warrior®, Heather Pearce Campbell.

Heather Pearce Campbell 1:15
Hello and welcome. I am Heather Pearce Campbell, The Legal Website Warrior®. I’m an attorney and legal coach based here in Seattle, Washington, where I serve online entrepreneurs, including coaches, consultants, online educators, speakers and authors around the world. Welcome to another episode of guts, grit and great business.

So I have one of my favorite people here with me today, Yifat Cohen, welcome.

Yifat Cohen 1:41
Thank you for having me.

Heather Pearce Campbell 1:43
Absolutely. So Yifat and I have known each other a few years now. And I’m a big fan. I’m a big fan of her work. I’ve gotten to know her a bit over the years. And she’s a brilliant woman and is really up to some interesting things. Yifat has a fabulous background, she was one of the first 100 people to be invited, invited to Google Plus. She has built her entire brand with one show on one platform that most people didn’t even care about. Right? And then, of course, she’s made some changes since but Google hired Yifat and flew her around the world to train their own team and speak at their offices, which they hardly let a non-Googler do. She worked with the City of Austin, was featured on radio shows big stages and live events, all because she understands one thing. In our overly connected world, we are starving for connection. And when we provide that connection, we are rewarded with referrals, loyalty and money.

Yifat teaches her clients how to increase engagement on social media to build trust, confidence and connection. Her clients have generated over $250,000 in 10 days from a dead list because of her engagement strategy. Others have made over $100,000 in that same span of time, while others saw 40% conversions and high ticket sales from a cold audience. Today, Yifat provides that service to companies who have more leads than clients and helps them add an additional 10 to 20% to their bottom line without paying for more leads. I love that. That’s quite the introduction, Yifat. I can’t wait for us to share with people how you do that. So welcome. Thanks for joining me today.

Yifat Cohen 3:25
Thanks for having me.

Heather Pearce Campbell 3:27
Yes, absolutely. And tell people for those that don’t know you, what is your current company called? Where can people find you?

Yifat Cohen 3:36
So yes, I have two websites. One is the show that we talked about. And that happens every other Thursday at 11am at 1pm. Central. And it’s kind of like Think and Grow Rich for the 21st century, where you can come in and actually interview and talk to thought leaders and CEOs and actors and speakers and all these awesome people live in real time, you can pick their brain and get your business, your relationship, your health, you know, on the right track. The other one where we do that for our clients, that’s Viral Connectivity, and that’s where we can start talking about making you the celebrity putting you out there creating content and, and visibility for your needs. We talk about how to increase engagement on social media to build trust, confidence and connection with your audience.

Heather Pearce Campbell 4:21
And the first show is the “I’m That Geek” show, right? So yeah, people can just Google that you’ll see that Yifat interviewed quite a few guests and some really phenomenal folks on there. Who are some of the favorite people that you’ve interviewed on that show?

Yifat Cohen 4:38
You know, they were really interesting because I one of the ladies that I interviewed was a stripper who turned into a business coach. And that was a fascinating interview, right? Because all of a sudden, you’re pivoting from being judged over your looks to being judged over your brain. Yeah. And so that was a fantastic conversation. And you know, there were moments where of vulnerability and she cried, and I was like, really great interview. The other ones have had the senior vice president of Walt Disney marketing. And we talked about bringing the Muppets back. And it’s always like, you know, I’m Israeli, and I’m not very PC. And so I love moments where people are like, no comment, can talk about this.

Heather Pearce Campbell 5:25
I’m gonna get asked the right question, right.

Yifat Cohen 5:28
Yeah. So yeah, we make great stories. We had a you former US ambassador to the UN, who actually came from the killing fields in Cambodia, all the way like actually escaped there and became the, you know, former US ambassador. And when he came to New York, his English wasn’t that great. And he got a job at Subway. And someone came in, ordered a sandwich and said, Hold the lettuce. And he goes, like, Okay, I’m holding that one. Yeah. And I’m like, dude, I totally relate. I had exactly the same thing. And I was waitressing. And someone is like, you know, hold the rocks, like, you know, on the rocks on it. So, you know, interviews like that, when you feel like you’re not the only weirdo in the world is are really, really cool.

Heather Pearce Campbell 6:16
Oh, love that. Oh, my gosh, hold the lettuce like, Okay, I’m here. I’ve got it. What next? larious? Well, I highly recommend people check out that show. You thought it’s a fabulous interviewer. She’s got really interesting guests. So it’s, it’s a lot of fun. And I imagine you cover a lot of topics on that show.

Yifat Cohen 6:39
Yeah, so at the beginning, you know that the show was called entrepreneurial, something we changed like so many names, because I realized there was nothing really connecting all the stories and all the people there except me geeking out over these topics. So you know, like, what, what does SEO have to do with the killing fields of Cambodia? Like nothing he fought the fight cares about both of them. And so it ended up being like, under geek and I get over these things. And hopefully you get your bottom two, and you can come in and we’ll geek out together.

Heather Pearce Campbell 7:11
No, I love that. I will. And I love because I think that’s how you and I connected actually right? on my show. Yes. And that’s been a few years now. But I remember just loving the title of your show. And then when we connected, I totally got it. So the thing back to the online space, and you know what you do what you’re brilliant at. But I want to start by talking about where people are blocked, right? Where people struggle, because I just had a conversation with a woman where we were just talking about all of the noise online, like how do we cut through this noise? Right? And especially right now in COVID? Like, everybody’s scrambling to get online, even people who have known they should have done that previously, they’re now finally doing it, because there’s no other choice. Right? What do people get wrong in that, you know, in that effort of trying to be online and show up? I mean, I’ve got my own opinions, but I’d love to hear from you what you think people get wrong?

Yifat Cohen 8:13
Yeah, I think that the first the first thing, and it’s not people’s fault, because that’s how internet marketers were doing it this whole time. It’s basically talking at people, right? So we moved from blogging, which is me talking to you, and then that move to emails me talking to you. And then we move to teleseminars me presenting to you. And then we had webinars me presenting and picking up whatever questions, and then videos where we don’t even talk, you just comment. And now to livestream, same thing I talk and you listen, and if you want to comment, and I choose which comment I want to show. And so what happens is like everybody’s just throwing content out there, and nobody’s actually having a conversation. And because technology changed so much. So now you can create anything you want with technology, right? You can have Obama say whatever you want with deep fake, Obama can be like, Oh, my God, you gotta listen to this podcast is the best.

Heather Pearce Campbell 9:15
And I say that I really have to get him to say that.

Yifat Cohen 9:18
You don’t have to get him to do anything. Why don’t you grab his video or your selfie? And you got a program that makes it say it in his own voice? And so now nobody believes anything anymore? And and that’s the problem. We are you putting so much content out there and people just don’t trust anything they see online. So you’re not converting. So you think your content doesn’t work? And so you start paying for ads, and that takes a lot of money. And that has more converting? Right. And so with that, and with content, we’re just bombarded with like, I don’t know what true anymore. And so what’s missing is that one on one connection, why that we’re doing and we have the technology to do that with live streaming with chats, chats worked very well. And we just need to start having conversations instead of going like, it’s like, Hey, what’s your problem? How can I help you? Let me show you that I can help you in real time, right? And let everybody see that I can help you. And then I don’t have to say to everybody look at me, I can actually help. They see me helping, and they’re going like, Oh, I want some help, too. And then they come to you. This is how I teach my clients how to increase engagement on social media online to build trust, confidence and connection with their audience. It’s all about engagement and connection, not talking at people.

Heather Pearce Campbell 10:24
I love that. And it’s so true. I mean, you, your example, makes it really clear. Like we went from blogging to email to, you know, ABC XYZ, and they are all like, one directional, right? me talking at you. And it’s, you know, I think we all know that experience like I was. It’s kind of a personal story, but there’s a particular person in my family who will make like 40 minute Markopolos. Right. And like being on the receiving end of that, oh, there’s some craziness happening right now over a certain issue. And my sister is on the receiving end of like, 40 minute Markopolos. And it’s that experience of like being talked at and not having it be a conversation. And the thing I love about what you do, and I’ve participated in some of your events, like we’ve known each other through the online space for years now is that focus on engagement and conversation and connection, and really moving away from that model of talking.

Yifat Cohen 11:28
It’s very interesting, a lot of people are doing challenges right now. Yeah. And in those challenges, they again, talk at people, right, and then you have to go back, and you have to figure out how to apply what they just told you. But it’s like, ah, how right? And so they’re like, okay, now you need help apply. And here’s the price. And you don’t even know if you can do it or not, because you haven’t tried. So I think, you know, with everything that’s happening right now and social media being so you know, toxic. And we just had, you know, the four leaders of technology been, you know, talking in Congress, right? Because social media is not where it needs to be. It’s not social. Right. So, right. And so I was like, Okay, I think what’s happening is a lot of people are going to start looking for their own communities and places where they belong online. And as a business owner, that’s a fantastic opportunity to go like, I’m going to create a community off of Facebook, just for my people that I can help them with. XYZ. Right. And I think we’re really at the beginning of that trend that’s happening, and highly recommend any business owner, if you can start building your community now, you’ll be very well often a year.

Heather Pearce Campbell 12:43
Right? Well, you and I were talking right before we went live today about like, what happened with LinkedIn. Right?

Yifat Cohen 12:49
Yeah, yeah. So LinkedIn canceled my account over automation, which is funny to me, because LinkedIn is a platform for business owners who don’t have time to be on LinkedIn all day long. So of course, there’s going to be some automation. And they know they’re automations, like HubSpot and other you know, other software’s out there. But they, they penalize you on that. So they turned off my account, it was an account for like, I don’t know, like a lot of years. And I had tons of tons of testimonials and referrals and stuff. And I was, you know, going live on LinkedIn. And when they shut up shut off mica like, Oh, do I need to start it again? I don’t know that I do, actually did not, didn’t contribute that much to my business. It was just another outlet to post on there was not often engagement. So I’m not on LinkedIn. And, and why I’m like, Okay, let me just build my own my own community on my own properties. So this doesn’t happen again. Because it will.

Heather Pearce Campbell 13:48
Yeah, well, it will. And it does. And it happens like this on other platforms as well. I know people that have had their Facebook pages shut down or, you know, business pages shut down because of certain things. And it’s, it is a really important reminder to know like, Where are you engaging people? Where, where are your people? Are you building your business based on somebody else’s platform that could go away in a minute, you know?

Yifat Cohen 14:17
I think social media is fantastic for visibility and starting conversations. But at the end of the day, you don’t really build you know, long lasting relationships there. And you and I have each other’s phone numbers. If they social media, guys, we can still connect. Right? And that’s a real relationship. When when I have my birthday, and people actually text me, I’m like, okay, we’re actually friends, why do you not just Facebook notified you and you’re writing on my wall? Why would I go there’s something here. So I think, you know, the more we do that with people and the more we surround ourselves with the people we can help. It doesn’t matter if you’re on social media or not. Because it will just, you know, grow by itself.

Heather Pearce Campbell 14:57
Yeah, well, and ultimately, I think we still have to have systems and technology that support those relationships, right, we have to be able to track that data and stuff. But yeah, I think underscoring the importance of how we build our business and what the goal is, right? The goal is real relationships. The goal is that regardless of whether you’re on LinkedIn, or Facebook, or wherever, that somebody will still find you or get in touch with you, when they need you when they want to engage.

Yifat Cohen 15:25
I find a lot lately that it’s happening through referrals. So my business is starting to grow a lot through referrals. And I was like, wow, you know what, that’s, that’s a new level right now, even if I disappear for like, a month or so someone like someone, I had a call today from someone that I worked with two years ago. And two years ago, we build a website. And today he called me is like, Hey, you know what, I tried to do it on my own, and I can’t, and I realized I need to hire a marketing agency. And I remember everything that you told me. So can we work together? And I’m like, there you go. Right. So he hasn’t found me on social media, he was definitely not LinkedIn. But he had my phone number because we work together. And we had a good relationship. So two years later, he goes like, Okay, if I need to work with someone, that’s the person I trust. And I think that’s the hard thing, because social media kind of makes all relationship very shallow. There’s a lot of people but not real connection.

Heather Pearce Campbell 16:17
Well, you bring up the issue of trust. And similar to you, I had actually one of my best clients, we connected early on, and because of something else happening in his business at the time wasn’t a great fit, just timing wise, right, they had some other stuff to sort out, but I was a little bummed. And I also thought, you know, whatever, we’ll just see what happens. Because if they don’t take care of this, it’ll be a problem. And also, that’s when people come back to me is when they have a problem, right? I don’t really want that for them. But anyways, it was something like a year or two years later. So again, one of his right hand, people inside his business went through my contact form. But I realized, I spent time on the phone with them, walking them through their legal needs, establishing that relationship. And two years, they could have gone anywhere. They could have taken that business anywhere and gotten legal help from anybody in the marketplace. But they came back to me when they were ready. And that’s the power.

And actually, even the way that I use LinkedIn is trying to get people into a real conversation onto a phone call, right? It’s not time effective. Let’s be clear, like that’s one of my main marketing efforts. And it’s not time effective. But it really works on establishing relationships and creating real engagement, using social media initially, and then moving the conversation off of social media, which is what you focus on. And I know you’ve got a system for helping people establish trust online, do you want to talk to us a little bit about how you approach that in the work that you do to help people cut through the noise and really be seen as trustworthy?

Yifat Cohen 17:48
Yeah, so thankfully, we have technology right now, that does connect you with people face to face. A lot of people are using live streaming to just create videos and talk at people and be done. So the traditional content marketing, funnel works like create content, create content, great content, so you can get someone on the phone to sell them. Yeah. And that takes forever, a lot of content, a lot of efforts. And most people at the end of it, don’t pick up the phone, because they know it’s going to be a sales goal.

If we flip that kind of like the anti funnel, right, we start moving into trust. So if we first talk to someone, and then turn that conversation into content, then we build an emotional connection with the person that we were talking to, right there. And then immediate trust, right? Because if I can help you right away without me knowing in advance what you’re going to ask me preparing for it and like putting on my best face. If I do this live, then you go like, okay, she knows what she’s talking about. And then if they follow up with you, and I go like the answer your question, you need anything else? How are things working for you? Now you had a good experience with me first, we established trust, you know, I can do this.

And now your defenses are down, because I’m coming in as a friendly adviser, rather than a salesperson. And if I take that and turn that into content, now everybody sees me as a trusted advisor and not a salesperson. And that starts the ball rolling of like, visibility, and trust and content and, and everything that I need out there. So our instant trust funnel really focuses on having conversation first, making it visible across all of social media in real time, and then turning that into the content that builds our authority. Along the way, we are using strategies that increase engagement on social media to build trust, confidence and connection.

Heather Pearce Campbell 19:34
Well, there’s a couple pieces about that, that I think are really key and one it’s the conversation piece like, for me like it’s, it’s why my goal on LinkedIn is to get people into even if it’s just a telephone conversation, the ability to connect at the same moment through conversation. I think it’s just extraordinarily powerful when you compare that to what happens online through a chat or through a one way communication or not a real live interview. But the tool that you use, and especially with live streaming, also adding the video component to it, like when you and I can sit down and see each other face to face. You know, you do that with somebody who’s a potential client, you do that with somebody who is even a call League, right? You have a much like it that even that piece takes it to the next level. Because not only do you have a voice, you have a live interaction, but you now have like, Look somebody in the face and you have a sense of who they are and how they show up. I think it’s a really, really important part of the puzzle.

Yifat Cohen 20:34
Yeah, they carry on top.

Heather Pearce Campbell 20:38
That’s right. That’s right.

Yifat Cohen 20:40
The cherry on top is most of us having conversations like this in private, right? So what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas? Yes. And that’s really hard for marketing, because you can be brilliant, and nobody knows it. Because you’re just having one on one, one on one, one on one. When you’re broadcasting these conversations, no, everybody sees your brilliance, and everybody kind of like, you know, get to know you from a distance white and like, it’s not threatening, I’m watching her, I can see her vibe, because that comes across on live. And I can see that she’s trustworthy, and I can see how she’s engaging with other people. So if I come in, and she’s not gonna chew my head off, and you know, for a stupid question that I might ask, and I’m, like, gradually starting to build that connection with you. So the thing that we do that most people for some reason don’t do is having those amazing conversations publicly. Yeah, I think a lot of people are really afraid. It’s,

Heather Pearce Campbell 21:34
I call it like the power play. It’s what like, probably makes that experience, like exponential as far as its potential impact

Yifat Cohen 21:44
Yeah. And I’ve had a lot of people who got, you know, came into my, my live shows, because they’ve seen me talking to other people and going like, Oh, I have a question. And we can ask it face to face. And then they hop in and they turn into amazing clients. So it’s a fantastic way to get your visibility out there, show that you know what to do and not sound like keep what happens in Vegas in Vegas. And then how do I create more content to put it out there? Just have another and we You and I were just talking about Dean Jackson, who’s doing that with his podcast 193 white strategy sessions that he basically puts out there. And now everybody sees how brilliant he is on a strategy session. And they’re going on. Okay, I want one too. Yeah. Wait, wait to get clients?

Heather Pearce Campbell 22:29
Yes. Or he just solved that problem. That’s the same problem. I have, like, I want to work with him, right? Yep. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So much

Yifat Cohen 22:38
Easier, right? Because we don’t have time, we’re busy. Wait, see if we can do one thing, and let the whole world see it, and then take the time away and actually serve our clients, be with our families spend time with the kids, exercise, watch a movie, it’s more things to do than actually creating content for social media.

Heather Pearce Campbell 22:57
Right? I know, it doesn’t feel like it sometimes. But yes. And I think that, you know, it’s really interesting, that concept of establishing trust with somebody, even if they’re not in that conversation, they’re just observing, you have the conversation with somebody else, really powerful, because they can see themselves either in that same struggle in that same problem that you’re solving in that client, maybe they relate to the client or the person on the other side of the conversation. So yeah, really, you’re strategic about this, and you’re talking to your ideal clients,

Yifat Cohen 23:30
Then your ideal clients watching you help your ideal client.

Heather Pearce Campbell 23:35
Yeah, they’re like, get in line. I know. Totally. Well, and I love the you know, what you said at the beginning of that portion about the anti funnel, like flipping it on its head, starting with the conversation, which is what a lot of people try to drive through, you know, drive to. Yeah, you know, it’s like I was observing some, and I always am paying attention to what people are doing on LinkedIn. But you know, there’s some annoying stuff that happens on LinkedIn. Right? We’ve all been on the receiving end of it. But I remember reading a recommendation about like, Oh, you do this thing first, and you act super helpful. And then you send this but it was still like this definite, like template form of here’s what you do. And then you do this. And then, you know, message number five is you invite them to a conversation. And for me, like, I just, I didn’t even have the patience to try template number one. And number two, I connect with people, and I just let them know, I’m here to create genuine connections, if there’s a way that I can support your business, right, or that we can have an interesting conversation about what you’re doing and I can provide additional resources or anything. Let’s jump on a quick call right away. Even though I may not capture as many people the people that do raise their hand for that are super connectors. They and they’re gonna, they’re either going to be an ideal client, a referral partner or somebody that knows No somebody in the marketplace that needs what I have. And I don’t mention anything about what I do. And that initial message, nothing. I don’t try to shove myself in their face. I don’t try to be helpful with my latest blog article, right?

Yifat Cohen 25:11
I did, I did. I actually messaged a few people. I was like, is this working for you. Like, do you actually get anything from that?

Heather Pearce Campbell 25:22
I mean, the last thing that we would do in person meeting face to face is, Here, let me show you my X, Y and Z. And people for whatever reason, do that all over the place online. So I really love Love, love your concept of the anti funnel and going right to conversation and starting there. It seems like such a natural way to create engagement online using social media that doesn’t rely on all these other pushy, or unnatural tactics and strategies.

Yifat Cohen 25:40
But yeah, and you know, it’s really funny, cuz when, who said that someone said that, like, everything that’s great for marketing is, is the opposite of what we’re doing in real life. Like, in real life, we’re not going to go around and shove everything in people’s faces, and marketing. For some reason, in our brain, we turn it into a numbers game. So we’re just like, Okay, well, I’m just gonna, you know, going to burn 700 people, but one of them is going to be my client. Now, like, Yeah, but you know, the internet doesn’t forget. And now it’s even worse. So now now I’m actually coming, like, people are introducing me to people who know, people from my past. And, and you know, and I was like, oh, man, you work with that person, too. Yeah. And I quit. Because blah, blah, I’m like, Yeah, because the internet doesn’t forget. And if someone is in there, you know, eventually, we’re all gonna meet that. And we’re all going to talk about it. And we’re all going to know and slowly, slowly, not, you know, your business is going to die.

Heather Pearce Campbell 26:36

Yifat Cohen 26:36
I’m really just fascinated with the fact that the minute you sit in front of a monitor, you forget all your humanity. Anyway, blast, blast, blast mass.

Heather Pearce Campbell 26:49
It’s really true. And you know, take like, spending just one we won’t beat a dead horse. But spending one minute longer on that concept of things that people do, once they transition online, like forgetting all the rules about how you should really treat people it’s like, you know, connecting with somebody. And then the next thing you know, you’ve been enrolled automatically to their email list. Again, would you really do that to somebody and yet people do it. So it’s, yeah, I think there’s a lot that people get wrong in the online marketing space, creating content, trying to do things that are just weird when you really break it down. And I know you’ve got a piece on connection versus content. Maybe we already covered it, but I love I love the reframe.

Yifat Cohen 27:35
Yeah. So, you know, I think people get into this point from desperation, they go like, Oh, my God, shit, I need clients online. Let me start blasting everybody with my you know, by my seat, right, I’ma shoot you. So can I can I pass on your link. So we, when we get into this, like, Oh, my God, I got rent, or I got something, I got to make sales this month, we get into this panic mode, where we just like, you know, pushing stuff out there. And we forget that relationships take time. And now, especially if you’re selling high ticket items, 500 700 $1,000, it’s going to be an impulse buy. So you have to build the trust in the relationship. And the challenge with that is that so many people have been burnt already, through different scam products, you know, everybody got a PDF, or everybody has a free offer that you can go in and do something. And so you’re not just competing with your competitors in competing with everybody online, that’s, you know, trying to grab someone’s attention. And the only way that someone will pay attention to you is if you matter, right? If you made a difference, if you kind of like actually created some kind of an emotional connection. And that takes time. And most people don’t take the 234 weeks that he takes to go like, hey, Heather, I see that you posted about this a few times. I you know, can I help you? I’ll jump on a phone call and just walk you through this. I had that with someone introduced me to fantastic Broadway producer, Ken Davenport. And we got on a call and I was like, how you doing and what’s going on and blah, blah, just you know, like an introductory call. And and then he I watched that he was doing some online stuff like live streaming. And I’m like, hey, do you want some pointers? And he’s like, Yeah, sure. Usually why people will be like, fantastic. Well, that’d be $500. And I will get you Oh, really? And I’m like, Oh, he’s like, Can I bring my assistant? Sure, you know, and we spent an hour and kind of like, helped him with all his systems and everything that you need to do online and how to engage and how to make it more professional. And now we’re friends, right? So like, Hey, can you know I have this thing? Do you want to show up? Sure. I can do this. Sure. Right. So that relationship is worth way more than $500 I would have to charge for like, you know, consultation, right? And other people are like, jump into like, okay, here’s my money, here’s my paypal, here’s how you pay me, right? I’m not gonna talk to you unless you become my client. Well, if everybody does that, and if you want to send out, then help first, then, you know, find out what they want, and then charge them for that. So if you reverse the things, your business will grow much faster.

Heather Pearce Campbell 30:25
Well, and I love I mean, the headline for this conversation, or really anything in involving marketing in the online space is like connection. And you said, that takes time. I think people want the shortcuts, they want to go around everybody else, they want to jump ahead in line, right, all the things and you just, you can’t if you’re really about building a business that is going to thrive and also going to work for your clients and for people that you should be connecting with.

Yifat Cohen 30:55
It takes time. Yeah, it takes and you know what, another thing that I think everybody forgets, and that’s the fault of like influencer marketing, you don’t need a million followers to make a good living. Why? If you need six figures a year, you heard that theory have 1000 true fans? Yes. Why? If you have 1000 true fans who only pay you $100 a year, not a month, a year, you make six figures, right? So if you have 500, who pay you 100 a month, then you’re good, right? If you have 100 people who pay 100 a month, you’re good, you’re making six figures a year. So the numbers are much smaller than what people think. And so you can slow down and just be like, okay, I only need two clients a month. And to get two clients a month, I only need to have 10 conversations, and only have 10 conversations, I can have one and a half a week, a day, right? One and a half conversations a day and I’m good. And you don’t have to chase it. And you don’t have to grow it and you don’t have to be blinded by all those big numbers. You can relax and you can engage and you can have conversations and just grow your clientele more than the vanity numbers. And you’ll be way farther ahead and most of your other online competitors. That is how you increase engagement on social media and online to build trust, confidence and connection with your ideal clients.

Heather Pearce Campbell 32:05
Even just hearing that it’s like, ooh, anything to take the, the frenetic feeling out of like, what it feels like it takes to be online and do that. Well, right being in all the places doing all the things pushing out content content content, let’s it’s all you hear about. Yeah, right. But I love that reframe of like, how can you build your business in a way that allows you to slow down and focus on connection, which is the fastest path to get where you want to go?

Yifat Cohen 32:39
Yeah. And have you noticed that like all those experts, they’re an experts in one thing, like, I’m a LinkedIn expert. I’m an Instagram Expert. I’m a YouTube expert, but I’m not a LinkedIn, YouTube, Instagram Facebook expert, right? Because you can’t be doing all of it at one time. So same thing for a business owner, pick one thing, just one, right? And dive deep into that. If you want to have conversations on Facebook, just be on Facebook, friggin everything else. And also, I was in Google Plus most people listening to this going like Google one. And just one a platform that most people couldn’t care less about, right? Build My entire brand. I wasn’t on LinkedIn, I didn’t care about I didn’t have a Facebook profile. Nothing. Why anybody’s Facebook is the biggest thing. Okay, but my brand grew over there. And who cares? So relax, pick where you want to have conversations? Where do you like the culture, the culture of the platform that you enjoy? You know, do you like to do videos, then go to YouTube, right? That’s your platform do you like to do to write then media maybe is your thing, right? If you like to put images and stuff, Instagram is your gig, pick one. And just forget everything else? Give yourself a break.

Heather Pearce Campbell 33:51
I love that. Yes, I really and I, I believe in that so strongly, like not doing all the things because somebody else says do this, like really get in tune with. And you do have to know where are your people? Where do you like to connect, which may take some experimenting, right? It’s not always a straight path. But really being more intentional about exactly where you show up what conversations you’re having, how you’re building out that connection. It just, you know, even just the sound of that sounds so much more enjoyable than the alternative.

Yifat Cohen 34:27
You know, I have a client who is now in corporate and goes to worse we see Oh, is those two years or not? Oh, LinkedIn, it doesn’t matter. Yeah. Wait.

Heather Pearce Campbell 34:38
On any of the things right there nowhere. Yeah,

Yifat Cohen 34:41
Yeah, rightly. And so yeah. So she’s not on social media. Who cares?

Heather Pearce Campbell 34:47
So hurry, horse, right. I know. People are freaking out stuff.

Yifat Cohen 34:52
I know.

Heather Pearce Campbell 34:55
No, it’s really true. If you know where to go find your people. You don’t have to be Other places?

Yifat Cohen 35:01
Yeah, you know, email marketing still works. Yeah, text messages to work. Direct Mail works. Right.

Heather Pearce Campbell 35:07
I know, I want to try that. I’m actually excited to try that at some point. So I think, you know, before we wrap up a couple of things. One, I want to hear about your bungee jumping off of the bridge in Ecuador.

Yifat Cohen 35:22
Yeah, yeah. So I, when I went to South America, I didn’t speak Spanish. I didn’t know where I was going. And I just followed people. And so when I got to Ecuador, people like hey, Sunday’s bungee jumping, like, okay, I love I just

Heather Pearce Campbell 35:36
followed people. I just followed people all the way to Ecuador.

Yifat Cohen 35:40
I took a one way ticket to Chile. And, and I was like, Yeah, because, you know, teenagers, we don’t know, what do you want to do in our lives? Right. And most people in the States, they go to universities, and then they go down this rabbit hole of like, ah, I didn’t finish a Degree or no degree that I don’t like.

Heather Pearce Campbell 35:59
Don’t want or I’ll never years, right?

Yifat Cohen 36:02
Because who knows what you want to do when you’re 2016? We don’t know. Right? Yeah. So I, a 20. After I did my military service in Israel, I was like, I’ve no idea what I want to do. So I’m going to take a one way ticket, and I’m just going to go back back. And hopefully, during the tour, something will come up and I’ll realize what I want to do. I know, go do it. And so I got to chill. And I had no plan. I was like, I’ll just go in here. And I had a tour guide, like a tour book, A Lonely Planet. And I was like, Oh, that looks like a great city. Let’s go there. And there were a lot of people who are traveling. So I’m like, Hey, where are you guys going? And they were like, no, we’re taking a car and we’re driving down. I’m like, Can I join you? Sure. And so I spent eight months like that, and I ended up in Ecuador. On a bridge, and I’m, and I really believe that you have to try something more than once. Because the first time you have no idea, you know, you like it, you don’t like it because it’s the first first experience. And so after you do it, then you do it another time. And then you go like, okay, I really like it. I really don’t like it. And so I jumped, it was fantastic. And I came back and I was like, Okay, I have to do this again. Because

Heather Pearce Campbell 37:15
I couldn’t do that.

Yifat Cohen 37:16
Like that. Did I not like that. That’s what is.

So I can’t get a guy and I was like, Hey, I you know, I need to jump again. And he’s like, ah, we only allow that for people. You know whose birthday is on this day and our duty. My birthday? is like really? No, like, no, but come on, let me so we had everybody sing happy birthday. So other people will not ask the same thing. And I jumped a second time. And it’s very interesting, because the first time it’s just an experience, you have no idea what to expect and you’re just like flowing and stuff. And this would happen. Second time you kind of remember where you should stop. But you don’t really remember and so you think you’re going to stop here and then you keep falling and now you freaking out. Oh my god. So he was, it was fantastic. I would definitely do that again. It was really again.

Heather Pearce Campbell 38:07
Oh my gosh. So most people are fibbing to get like free dessert right fibbing about their birthdays, Yifat is fibbing to get another bungee jump. That’s hilarious. Well, that’s a really fun story. And it is interesting, because and I don’t know if it just is because it’s such a thrilling out of our normal comfort zone type of experience. like not being able to observe exactly how the first time goes, but even the understanding the second time of like, Wait a second, I thought I was stopping here and even like in a way being more thrilling that’s that’s really interesting.

Yifat Cohen 38:43
Because you know, we never know like, do you remember you know your first time or your second time of anything? It kind of like everything is like based on like, Well what was I feeling in a moment and the moment changes right? Yeah,

Heather Pearce Campbell 38:56
I I bungee jumped one time, but I honestly don’t remember anything about it except for realizing like oh my gosh, I’m jumping over pavement. Why did I make this decision? It was one of those big cranes over a parking lot outside of the mall. Awesome. Really exciting to jump there. super funny though. But yeah, I don’t think I remember anything about it. I remember seeing a video of myself that somebody had taken right and I was blonde at the time and my hair was just like going everywhere. And that’s like my like, Oh, yeah, I had a lot of hair whenever that was my memory. So, so funny.

Yifat Cohen 39:33
You will blowing into wind blowing in the wind.

Heather Pearce Campbell 39:35
Oh my gosh. So um, I think you’ve got a gift for people right? Four easy ways to get raving fans and hungry buyers. You want to talk to us for a minute and for people listening where you can get the information to connect with you, find access to her gift, go to the show notes at legalwebsitewarrior.com/podcast, look for Yifat’s episode. And it’ll be right there. But Yifat, tell us a little bit about this gift.

Yifat Cohen 40:04
Yeah, so like we were talking most people, you know, have a hard time finding their audience online, engaging with them, knowing what to say how to say it, knowing how to move them to the next stage, you know, knowing what to sell, and how to sell – do I need a shop, you know, a website, a shopping cart, all that stuff. So that training is really to show you how to find the problem that people want to pay money for, how to engage with them, and how to make money. Even if you don’t have a website, and you don’t have a product and you don’t have a system, you’ll see four ways of making money if you’re just starting out. So it’s a fantastic tool for people who want to kind of like, test what online engagement feels like and monetize it, it will take you some time, probably like, the training is like an hour, but applying it will take you probably like four weeks to do that. And if you need any help or anything at all, I’m just an email away. And you can message me and we have a community where you can come in and actually do this in real time. So try it on your own, see how you like it. And if you need help, know that there was a place for you to get support. I love teaching people how to increase engagement on social media, and online, to build their know, like, trust factor and create real connections and clients.

Heather Pearce Campbell 41:15
Well, I love that. And you if you get inside of Yifat’s community, you get to observe firsthand how she like walks the talk right now she implements what she teaches other people to do, which is really, really valuable.

Thank you so much for joining us today. I’m such a fan of what you do. I’m a personal fan of really connecting with people. And so I know the value in what you do. Any final thoughts for people before we sign off today.

Yifat Cohen 41:53
Just take the leap, you know, if you’re afraid to really engage with people just know everybody’s afraid. Everybody’s worried about connecting and everybody’s worried to be sold to, but a lot of people love to buy, and they love to buy from people where they feel safe, and trusted and comfortable with. So I really, really highly encourage people to make that mindset shift. You know, from like, broadcasting to engaging, it’s a lot easier. It’s a lot more fun. It’s a lot more rewarding. And so hopefully you pick me up on that.

Heather Pearce Campbell 42:23
Yes, absolutely. Well, and I think the part about engaging and connecting, it’s a lot easier for people to see how they are serving when they’re doing those things versus selling right. I think a lot of people understand that icky feeling of being sold to and they don’t want to do that. But if you’re creating genuine connection and you are serving people in the moment, yeah, the best way. Yep, absolutely. Awesome. You fat I so appreciate you thank you for being here today. We will connect again very soon.

Yifat Cohen 42:55
Thanks for having me.

Guts Grit Great Business Outro 43:00
Thank you for joining us today on the Guts, Grit & Great Business podcast. We hope that we’ve added a little fuel to your tank, some coffee to your cup and pep in your step to keep you moving forward in your own great adventures. For key takeaways links to any resources mentioned in today’s show and more, visit the shownotes at www.legalwebsitewarrior.com/podcast. And be sure to hop over to Apple podcasts or wherever you listen to your podcasts and give us a rating and some stars. That will help others find our podcast which will allow us to reach and serve more entrepreneurs on their business building journey.